Help what will SN do to someone with tachycardia?

[sevennn]

150 bpm is something i can easily have at times. (no one really knows why, they said heart is healthy. i suspect maybe anemia is making it beat so much, to run oxygen through the body. but i'm no doctor). most of the time my bpm is between 80-120, can get higher. but not lower than this. so just out of curiosity. will SN be more or less effective or no changes for someone with tachycardia. i haven't seen already existing tachycardia and SN discussed anywhere

 

[Let Me Go]

Interesting topic, I have no known heart issues and normally hover around 90 bpm, sometimes higher. Method is also sn. I hope someone can help shed some light.

 

[schrei_nach_liebe]

I have it too but not due to a heart issue and I drop to the 30s as well, mine are electrical and endocrine issues. It could possibly make you more tachy, but it may not depending on the underlying cause of your tachycardia. The normal response to SN initially as hypoxia starts to take hold is without underlying issues going to be tachycardia. Anxiety of the event is likely to cause tachycardia, but you will reach an upper limit where the heart cannot fill with blood efficiently enough and it won't be able to go faster. Tachycardia can be beneficial in the sense that it uses up oxygen faster and you wouldn't have to deal with consciousness for as long a time period as you would if you had a normal sinus rhythm.

 

[Plato'sCaveDweller]

I have it too but not due to a heart issue and I drop to the 30s as well, mine are electrical and endocrine issues. It could possibly make you more tachy, but it may not depending on the underlying cause of your tachycardia. The normal response to SN initially as hypoxia starts to take hold is without underlying issues going to be tachycardia. Anxiety of the event is likely to cause tachycardia, but you will reach an upper limit where the heart cannot fill with blood efficiently enough and it won't be able to go faster. Tachycardia can be beneficial in the sense that it uses up oxygen faster and you wouldn't have to deal with consciousness for as long a time period as you would if you had a normal sinus rhythm.

Slightly off topic question if you don't mind, but I figure your medical knowledge could provide some insight.

For the average person (without any heart issues), what do you think the heart rate upper limit would be during hypoxia? I'm trying to gauge and prepare my expectations for how fast my heart will be beating once the hypoxia really kicks in. As I mentioned in one of my posts you've seen, during my past experience with hypoxia caused by a lung collapse, my heart rate reached 187 at one point and floated around the 170's-180's for about 15 minutes till I was stabilized in the hospital. Do you think this is what I should expect for SN? I'm hoping it'll be something more like 130-140bpm, but something tells me the hypoxia from SN would be much more serious and taxing on the body. 180 was so incredibly distressing.

 

[schrei_nach_liebe]

Off topic question if you don't mind, but I figure your medical knowledge could provide some insight.

For the average person (without any heart issues), what do you think the heart rate upper limit would be during hypoxia? I'm trying to gauge and prepare my expectations for how fast my heart will be beating once the hypoxia really kicks in. As I mentioned in one of my posts you've seen, during my past experience with hypoxia caused by a lung collapse, my heart rate reached 187 at one point and floated around the 170's-180's for about 15 minutes till I was stabilized in the hospital. Do you think this is what I should expect for SN? I'm hoping it'll be something more like 130-140bpm, but something tells me the hypoxia from SN would be much more serious and taxing on the body. 180 was so incredibly distressing.

Upper limit would be dependent on body size, heart size, and lots of other factors like that. If you were in the 180s during that I would probably expect something like that again. As you become less and less able to oxygenate the most likely scenario is that you'd lose consciousness. Losing consciousness is one way the body tries to compensate for the low oxygen environment because the brain and eyes use so much oxygen. But with SN if things go as planned you'll never restore the oxygenation and the heart will slow down and eventually cease to pump as all the body's ATP is used up. You may or may not be brain dead by this point. A rule of thumb is brain death occurs usually around 8 minutes of hemostasis, but that's out of water and at a normal temperature. I had no bloodflow for probably 13 minutes, so there's a lot of wiggle room.

 

[Catch-22]

150 bpm is something i can easily have at times. (no one really knows why, they said heart is healthy. i suspect maybe anemia is making it beat so much, to run oxygen through the body. but i'm no doctor). most of the time my bpm is between 80-120, can get higher. but not lower than this. so just out of curiosity. will SN be more or less effective or no changes for someone with tachycardia. i haven't seen already existing tachycardia and SN discussed anywhere

I think for me it's going to make it much worse. I have something called POTS that effect my blood pressure and heartbeat.. mine is caused by an infection I have that I cannot get rid of. But I know I also get my heart pounding really fast because I have severe anxiety.. so with everything combined for me I think it will get a lot worse but that will only be for a short period.. all the symptoms are just temporarily.

 

[Plato'sCaveDweller]

Upper limit would be dependent on body size, heart size, and lots of other factors like that. If you were in the 180s during that I would probably expect something like that again. As you become less and less able to oxygenate the most likely scenario is that you'd lose consciousness. Losing consciousness is one way the body tries to compensate for the low oxygen environment because the brain and eyes use so much oxygen. But with SN if things go as planned you'll never restore the oxygenation and the heart will slow down and eventually cease to pump as all the body's ATP is used up. You may or may not be brain dead by this point. A rule of thumb is brain death occurs usually around 8 minutes of hemostasis, but that's out of water and at a normal temperature. I had no bloodflow for probably 13 minutes, so there's a lot of wiggle room.

Well shit... Thank you for the answer though. So I suppose the good news is it sounds like once my heart goes full throttle it probably won't be too long before I'm out. If all goes according to plan, that is. But it looks like this'll be my cross to bear, a very uncomfortable one at that.

As for the timing of brain death, that won't really be a problem as I'll be long dead (probably about 6 or 7 hours) before I'm found and EMS shows up. But I do appreciate the pathology behind the process. I actually didn't know that loss of consciousness is a method the body employs to prolong survival in such situations. I had assumed it was solely due to insufficient oxygen supply making consciousness untenable (though perhaps this plays a factor too).

 

[schrei_nach_liebe]

Well shit... Thank you for the answer though. So I suppose the good news is it sounds like once my heart goes full throttle it probably won't be too long before I'm out. If all goes according to plan, that is. But it looks like this'll be my cross to bear, a very uncomfortable one at that.

As for the timing of brain death, that won't really be a problem as I'll be long dead (probably about 6 or 7 hours) before I'm found and EMS shows up. But I do appreciate the pathology behind the process. I actually didn't know that loss of consciousness is a method the body employs to prolong survival in such situations. I had assumed it was solely due to insufficient oxygen supply making consciousness untenable (though perhaps this plays a factor too).

Yeah it's a little of both, but think of fainting, the point is to get horizontal because it's far easier to pump blood horizontally than vertically

 

[Plato'sCaveDweller]

Yeah it's a little of both, but think of fainting, the point is to get horizontal because it's far easier to pump blood horizontally than vertically

Ahh, true. I suppose at that point, the dangers of falling and getting injured are outweighed by the danger of low oxygen levels in the brain, so down you go lol. The brain wants its oxygen.

Thanks for the fun facts, and I appreciate you dispensing your knowledge to those of us that request it. I know you're scheduled to take your exit sometime next month (as am I, if nothing delays me), but in case I don't end up asking anything more from you, I'd like to thank you now for answering the concerns and questions of users here, and specifically for answering my own. You're a valuable resource here, and I hope that whatever knowledge you impart upon the forum can continue to help others long after you're gone, especially your possible detailed documenting of the SN process. That might end up being one of the best documentations of the SN process, considering you'd likely know exactly what's happening as it's happening, and be able to offer better insight to those who are curious about the process. You're very brave and altruistic for wanting to do this for others.

 

[sevennn]

wow. just woke up and there are so many replies. so i suppose tachycardia will be a good thing that'll make me pass out faster? just super uncomfortable i guess?

 

[Unknown21]

I have it too but not due to a heart issue and I drop to the 30s as well, mine are electrical and endocrine issues. It could possibly make you more tachy, but it may not depending on the underlying cause of your tachycardia. The normal response to SN initially as hypoxia starts to take hold is without underlying issues going to be tachycardia. Anxiety of the event is likely to cause tachycardia, but you will reach an upper limit where the heart cannot fill with blood efficiently enough and it won't be able to go faster. Tachycardia can be beneficial in the sense that it uses up oxygen faster and you wouldn't have to deal with consciousness for as long a time period as you would if you had a normal sinus rhythm.

Would 70mg of Bisoprolol be helpful/ effective for reduceing high heart rate?

 

[sevennn]

I think for me it's going to make it much worse. I have something called POTS that effect my blood pressure and heartbeat.. mine is caused by an infection I have that I cannot get rid of. But I know I also get my heart pounding really fast because I have severe anxiety.. so with everything combined for me I think it will get a lot worse but that will only be for a short period.. all the symptoms are just temporarily.

yeah. same. i can get my heart up easily due to being anxious. so i'm already imagining how fast it'll beat during the process. oof. not gonna feel pleasant at all

 

[rozeske]

My thought and hope is that it won't be that much distressing for someone who experiences tachycardia most of the days. A member shared a picture of their beat, it was 175 before they went unconscious, so I too am hoping it won't be unbearable.

 

[Plato'sCaveDweller]

My thought and hope is that it won't be that much distressing for someone who experiences tachycardia most of the days. A member shared a picture of their beat, it was 175 before they went unconscious, so I too am hoping it won't be unbearable.

fuck... 175 is not fun at all imo. Just check this video out Virtual Heart 180bpm and then tap those beats with your fingers on your chest, and just imagine your ticker doing that. Although, this is definitely subjective since some people wouldn't mind that at all.

But man, I feel for that user, or really anyone who endures that and does not like it. Was that the user who CTB'd maybe almost a year ago now? I remember they posted a pic of their finger with an O2 sat monitor and it had the BPM as well, and they were on a white bed with a wood table in the background. It was also daytime and their room was lit up by the sun. Are we thinking of the same member? There's been so many at this point it's hard to tell

 

[rozeske]

fuck... 175 is not fun at all imo. Just check this video out Virtual Heart 180bpm and then tap those beats with your fingers on your chest, and just imagine your ticker doing that. Although, this is definitely subjective since some people wouldn't mind that at all.

But man, I feel for that user, or really anyone who endures that and does not like it. Was that the user who CTB'd maybe almost a year ago now? I remember they posted a pic of their finger with an O2 sat monitor and it had the BPM as well, and they were on a white bed with a wood table in the background. It was also daytime and their room was lit up by the sun. Are we thinking of the same member? There's been so many at this point it's hard to tell

Yes it's the same user, gonnerr. My thought is, maybe a wishful thinking, if people with normal heart beats explain it as "my heart is beating fast" and "it's not painful just uncomfortable" maybe it will be an ok experience for someone who is used to tachycardia. Maybe the numbers are higher and scarier than the actual feeling. Again wishful thinking :)

 

[schrei_nach_liebe]

I've never found tachycardia to be uncomfortable or painful, I usually don't even notice it. I usually notice bradycardia more because my heart is making large forceful beats and in that situation I even feel it in my ears. But, I don't have an underlying heart issue. Beta blocker isn't going to help much once you get past a certain point, may prolong consciousness at worst. A high heart rate isn't something to be scared of, you're trying to die…so like

 

[sevennn]

I've never found tachycardia to be uncomfortable or painful, I usually don't even notice it. I usually notice bradycardia more because my heart is making large forceful beats and in that situation I even feel it in my ears. But, I don't have an underlying heart issue. Beta blocker isn't going to help much once you get past a certain point, may prolong consciousness at worst. A high heart rate isn't something to be scared of, you're trying to die…so like

right. no high heart rate never scares me either. unless i'm actually scared in that moment. i think dying would scare me. which would make high bpm scary. but that's for any method. i asked around. people said beta blocker not recommended for SN. but don't take my word for it

 

[singingcrow]

right. no high heart rate never scares me either. unless i'm actually scared in that moment. i think dying would scare me. which would make high bpm scary. but that's for any method. i asked around. people said beta blocker not recommended for SN. but don't take my word for it

can you remember why they said its not recommended?

 

[willitpass]

I've never found tachycardia to be uncomfortable or painful, I usually don't even notice it. I usually notice bradycardia more because my heart is making large forceful beats and in that situation I even feel it in my ears. But, I don't have an underlying heart issue. Beta blocker isn't going to help much once you get past a certain point, may prolong consciousness at worst. A high heart rate isn't something to be scared of, you're trying to die…so like

I have heart problems (no shit, I'm CTB with cardiac meds) and feel the same. I don't become symptomatic until I'm tachy to the 190/200s. Bradycardia I start to feel in the upper 30s-low 40s. Neither are that uncomfortable in and of themselves though. Being tachy just makes me a bit short of breath and hot. I don't start to feel like I'm about to die and my hearts popping out of my chest until the limit I just said. Being brady I feel exhausted, everything feels cold, I get orthostatic hypotension. Neither are pleasant per se, but until it gets to serious extremes it really isn't that bad.

 

[sevennn]

can you remember why they said its not recommended?

ok. disclaimer: you should check this information. cus i'm very tired and stressed atm!! so i don't want anyone to take what i say seriously and don't want to give any info or advice (bcus i know nothing myself). they said it was because tachycardia will speed up the dying/losing consciousness process.

 

[schrei_nach_liebe]

right. no high heart rate never scares me either. unless i'm actually scared in that moment. i think dying would scare me. which would make high bpm scary. but that's for any method. i asked around. people said beta blocker not recommended for SN. but don't take my word for it

Yeah a beta blocker isn't beneficial for the method. I saw someone who mentioned POTS too, beta blockers aren't helpful with POTS because they attack tachycardia directly. It's a little more complicated than that. Many people somewhat irrationally have a fixation about tachycardia that makes them anxious and makes the tachycardia even worse, so it's not all in their heads, but their heads make it worse. Once you get into the upper echelons of heart rate the heart can no longer fill the atria with blood quickly enough during diastole and the volumetric efficiency decreases, so you're pumping less blood at the highest heart rates, and at some point the heart tissue isn't being perfused as well with oxygen and the byproducts of anaerobic respiration aren't being removed efficiently so you start to feel chest pain. It's not an infarct but more like a muscle ache or feeling the burn when working out. The beta blockers also help with the anxiety especially when they're non cardioselective. With POTS it's physiologically counterproductive to always be trying to turn down the heart rate because your heart rate is increased due to a physiological need for more oxygen, and if your heart rate isn't always at a sky high extreme, you're effectively forcing your system into getting even less oxygen by hamstringing the heart. The beta blocker as a whole ends up limiting your physical ability to compensate. There is a better med choice, ivabradine, which has effects that work in increasing the volumetric efficiency of each beat. Hyperadrenergic pots is quite distinct from the other types when it's properly diagnosed, and it often isn't properly diagnosed. Hyperadrenergic pots is quite similar to a pheochromocytoma, especially the level of norepinephrine, except that the Hyperadrenergic states primarily exist while orthostatic rather than while supine.

 

[sevennn]

Yeah a beta blocker isn't beneficial for the method. I saw someone who mentioned POTS too, beta blockers aren't helpful with POTS because they attack tachycardia directly. It's a little more complicated than that. Many people somewhat irrationally have a fixation about tachycardia that makes them anxious and makes the tachycardia even worse, so it's not all in their heads, but their heads make it worse. Once you get into the upper echelons of heart rate the heart can no longer fill the atria with blood quickly enough during diastole and the volumetric efficiency decreases, so you're pumping less blood at the highest heart rates, and at some point the heart tissue isn't being perfused as well with oxygen and the byproducts of anaerobic respiration aren't being removed efficiently so you start to feel chest pain. It's not an infarct but more like a muscle ache or feeling the burn when working out. The beta blockers also help with the anxiety especially when they're non cardioselective. With POTS it's physiologically counterproductive to always be trying to turn down the heart rate because your heart rate is increased due to a physiological need for more oxygen, and if your heart rate isn't always at a sky high extreme, you're effectively forcing your system into getting even less oxygen by hamstringing the heart. The beta blocker as a whole ends up limiting your physical ability to compensate. There is a better med choice, ivabradine, which has effects that work in increasing the volumetric efficiency of each beat. Hyperadrenergic pots is quite distinct from the other types when it's properly diagnosed, and it often isn't properly diagnosed. Hyperadrenergic pots is quite similar to a pheochromocytoma, especially the level of norepinephrine, except that the Hyperadrenergic states primarily exist while orthostatic rather than while supine.

oh wow. you are so smart (no sarcasm, genuinely. i wish i was this knowledgable on something haha). and i didn't know ivabradine worked like that. i had it prescribed to me in the past. they said it was better, but didn't explain why. now i get it. thank you for the information

 

[schrei_nach_liebe]

oh wow. you are so smart (no sarcasm, genuinely. i wish i was this knowledgable on something haha). and i didn't know ivabradine worked like that. i had it prescribed to me in the past. they said it was better, but didn't explain why. now i get it. thank you for the information

lol I'm probably average-ish on the smarts, but I've been exposed to a shit ton of things in real life in lots of unlikely ways
I guess I would add, tachycardia isn't likely to cause discomfort directly. It's the anxiety about it manifesting the discomfort, just as any situation with too much norepinephrine would affect any other physiologically normal person.

 

[Plato'sCaveDweller]

Yes it's the same user, gonnerr. My thought is, maybe a wishful thinking, if people with normal heart beats explain it as "my heart is beating fast" and "it's not painful just uncomfortable" maybe it will be an ok experience for someone who is used to tachycardia. Maybe the numbers are higher and scarier than the actual feeling. Again wishful thinking :)

man, I can't believe we remember them still.

and yeah, wishful thinking is all i can do to cope lmao :D

 

[sevennn]

man, I can't believe we remember them still.

and yeah, wishful thinking is all i can do to cope lmao :D

i love wishful thinking