What was shit about post-ww2 American society?

[Weebster]

Not including racism and civil rights issues

 

[Bootleg Astolfo]

The rise of unchecked capitalism that lead us towards a shitty cyberpunk distopia. Can't even have a cool cyber augment one.

 

[Weebster]

The rise of unchecked capitalism that lead us towards a shitty cyberpunk distopia. Can't even have a cool cyber augment one.

Capitalism didn't exist before that?

 

[Bootleg Astolfo]

Capitalism didn't exist before that?

It wasn't as much of an absolute memey shitshow like today *wildly gestures at nfts and other such retardations*

 

[Weebster]

It wasn't as much of an absolute memey shitshow like today *wildly gestures at nfts and other such retardations*

How do you see the year 2070?

 

[PreussenBlueJay]

Honestly it's better in every way. It's not boring or predictable I guess?

 

[Bootleg Astolfo]

How do you see the year 2070?

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

The worst part about it was the support for Israel after 1948 and the near total dominance of the US government by Israeli genocidalist interests.

The logic from the US was because some Jews were genocided by Europeans , let us let the Jews genocide and occupy the Palestinians , instead of doing something like carving an Israeli state out of US federal lands.

 

[Pluto]

Post WWII USA was a time of hope, awe-inspiring technology, but also the crazy drama of assassinations, constant fear of nuclear attack and ongoing atrocities in Korea and later Vietnam. Then more drama with oil price spikes in the '70s. Definitely fascinating to study the history.

 

[Weebster]

The worst part about it was the support for Israel after 1948 and the near total dominance of the US government by Israeli genocidalist interests.

The logic from the US was because some Jews were genocided by Europeans , let us let the Jews genocide and occupy the Palestinians , instead of doing something like carving an Israeli state out of US federal lands.

You can't even criticize them without being labeled antisemitic.

Post WWII USA was a time of hope, awe-inspiring technology, but also the crazy drama of assassinations, constant fear of nuclear attack and ongoing atrocities in Korea and later Vietnam. Then more drama with oil price spikes in the '70s. Definitely fascinating to study the history.

I would like it more if the people still alive from that era weren't so insufferable. There's a reason why the ancient world had few elderly. Their time in the sun ended a long time ago.

 

[Pluto]

I would like it more if the people still alive from that era weren't so insufferable. There's a reason why the ancient world had few elderly. Their time in the sun ended a long time ago.

Yes, but back in 'my day', the elderly were the parents of today's older generation. They were VERY different. They had to survive WWI, the Great Depression and WWII, and they did so by pulling together and caring for one another. By contrast, the Boomers of the '60s were all about hedonism from the get-go and we are still suffering for their legacy today.

 

[Weebster]

Yes, but back in 'my day', the elderly were the parents of today's older generation. They were VERY different. They had to survive WWI, the Great Depression and WWII, and they did so by pulling together and caring for one another. By contrast, the Boomers of the '60s were all about hedonism from the get-go and we are still suffering for their legacy today.

May they rot in Tartarus with the angels who rebelled against God. Amen

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

Yes, but back in 'my day', the elderly were the parents of today's older generation. They were VERY different. They had to survive WWI, the Great Depression and WWII, and they did so by pulling together and caring for one another. By contrast, the Boomers of the '60s were all about hedonism from the get-go and we are still suffering for their legacy today.

We discussed this on another thread but for those of us alive who are old enough to know the generations before the boomers we are very lucky.

I feel like most wisdom imparted on me in life came from pre boomers and of all the elders I respect the most they are pre ww2

 

[Weebster]

We discussed this on another thread but for those of us alive who are old enough to know the generations before the boomers we are very lucky.

I feel like most wisdom imparted on me in life came from pre boomers and of all the elders I respect the most they are pre ww2

Why did the boomers turn out so bad? These walking demons in the flesh have ruined society.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

Why did the boomers turn out so bad? These walking demons in the flesh have ruined society.

I think it was the drugs.

 

[Weebster]

I think it was the drugs.

Makes sense. Mk ultra

 

[Pluto]

Why did the boomers turn out so bad? These walking demons in the flesh have ruined society.

The older generation was humbled by the fact that they had nearly driven the world to the brink of nuclear war, plus a lot of their own attempts at hedonistic movements, such as the 'flappers' of the '20s, had been driven extinct by need to pull together to survive one disaster after another. The boomers by contrast never had to face any real consequences. No wars (except Vietnam for some), freedom to indulge in the 'greed is good' mindset, entitlement to tax cuts, no concern for the environment and a fully funded retirement, all at the expense of their own grandchildren.

I will add that not all Boomers are like this. And the good ones deserve to be treasured. Also, all people are genetically almost identical, so it is only environments that differ. It's hard to hate anyone for merely being born into a particular time and place. The tragedy is in the human condition itself.

 

[Weebster]

The older generation was humbled by the fact that they had nearly driven the world to the brink of nuclear war, plus a lot of their own attempts at hedonistic movements, such as the 'flappers' of the '20s, had been driven extinct by need to pull together to survive one disaster after another. The boomers by contrast never had to face any real consequences. No wars (except Vietnam for some), freedom to indulge in the 'greed is good' mindset, entitlement to tax cuts, no concern for the environment and a fully funded retirement, all at the expense of their own grandchildren.

I will add that not all Boomers are like this. And the good ones deserve to be treasured. Also, all people are genetically almost identical, so it is only environments that differ. It's hard to hate anyone for merely being born into a particular time and place. The tragedy is in the human condition itself.

The tragedy is boomers will keep reaping the benefits of modern healthcare and will live forever infecting society with their stupid ideals.

 

[Julgran]

The older generation was humbled by the fact that they had nearly driven the world to the brink of nuclear war, plus a lot of their own attempts at hedonistic movements, such as the 'flappers' of the '20s, had been driven extinct by need to pull together to survive one disaster after another. The boomers by contrast never had to face any real consequences. No wars (except Vietnam for some), freedom to indulge in the 'greed is good' mindset, entitlement to tax cuts, no concern for the environment and a fully funded retirement, all at the expense of their own grandchildren.

I will add that not all Boomers are like this. And the good ones deserve to be treasured. Also, all people are genetically almost identical, so it is only environments that differ. It's hard to hate anyone for merely being born into a particular time and place. The tragedy is in the human condition itself.

The tragedy is boomers will keep reaping the benefits of modern healthcare and will live forever infecting society with their stupid ideals.

Do you two believe in the cycle of "Hard times create strong men - strong men create good times - good times create weak men - and weak men create hard times"? Could the Silent Generation be the "strong men" who created good times after World War 2, and the Boomer Generation were the "weak men" who caused society to crash and created hard times, and now the Millennial, Zoomer and Alpha Generations are the ones who have to pick up the pieces of a fallen society?

I'm a Millennial myself, and it seems that I'm not alone in not have gotten anywhere in life.

If I am to assume anything, we are heading into a time period that will be worse than anything that people who are alive today, have every seen, so, perhaps, we who are alive today will have to become the "strong men" who create the next good times..?

 

[Pluto]

If I am to assume anything, we are heading into a time period that will be worse than anything that people who are alive today, have every seen, so, perhaps, we who are alive today will have to become the "strong men" who create the next good times..?

That's a very interesting concept. Clearly there is some legitimacy to it, but I have known abusers (including my own father) who have rationalised neglect and cruelty on grounds of 'making strong men'. He was himself abused when young and ended up with narcissistic personality disorder.

What makes a good society is not merely mayhem and hardship, but care for others and empathy. Some bygone generations had attitudes of respect for their countrymen beaten into them, or were forced into it by necessity to survive extreme hardship. However, whether those same people were able to overcome the underlying global dysfunctions, such as nationalism or ecological destruction, is another matter. As such, the Boomers were born into the perfect storm and set up to fail.

The younger generations will have immense challenges to deal with, but are also the first to educated and aware enough be able to see through all failings of previous generations. It is 'sink or swim' on a global scale.

 

[Julgran]

That's a very interesting concept. Clearly there is some legitimacy to it, but I have known abusers (including my own father) who have rationalised neglect and cruelty on grounds of 'making strong men'. He was himself abused when young and ended up with narcissistic personality disorder.

What makes a good society is not merely mayhem and hardship, but care for others and empathy. Some bygone generations had attitudes of respect for their countrymen beaten into them, or were forced into it by necessity to survive extreme hardship. However, whether those same people were able to overcome the underlying global dysfunctions, such as nationalism or ecological destruction, is another matter. As such, the Boomers were born into the perfect storm and set up to fail.

The younger generations will have immense challenges to deal with, but are also the first to educated and aware enough be able to see through all failings of previous generations. It is 'sink or swim' on a global scale.

I'm sorry to hear about your father's behaviour - I assume that has had some effect you, didn't it?

As for the definition of "good times", I'm afraid that we, as humans, are spoiled, because from a survival standpoint, "good" may just mean that you have food for one or two days and a tribe that you can rely on for safety, which means that the "advanced" society that has been built for us today is just luxury, and we beat the game of life - meaning the need to survive - long ago.

You mention that the Boomers were set up to fail, which is interesting. Doesn't that mean the the generations before them are guilty of making the Boomers fail? That could just be one explanation, of course.

 

[Pluto]

Yes, such is life. People who have parents like that will often go on to emulate them, or else become the opposite. Mostly the latter in my case; I've often ended up empathic to the point of self-neglect.

You are right that humans seemingly beat the system long ago. Very few people are in danger from malnourishment, and it almost never arises as a grievance on this website, for example. Yet we still suffer for lacking this or that purported entitlement. The other issue, having a tribe, is a far more common source of pain in our individualistic society, as well as the assorted psychological ailments caused by living such unnatural lifestyles.

In a way, every generation can blame the preceding one. The hedonism of the Boomers - which later manifested as rampant greed - was probably permitted by their parents because it was so clear that the old ways of violence, national pride, war and shameless sexism/racism/etc. had failed so shamefully. But to be a true cycle, it would need to echo throughout the centuries. Perhaps the last century or two have been anomalies triggered by the unchecked technological progress of the Industrial Revolution.

 

[Julgran]

Yes, such is life. People who have parents like that will often go on to emulate them, or else become the opposite. Mostly the latter in my case; I've often ended up empathic to the point of self-neglect.

That's great for you, but mostly for the people around you - if you have suffered for it yourself. Good on you for not following in your father's footsteps, though.

You are right that humans seemingly beat the system long ago. Very few people are in danger from malnourishment, and it almost never arises as a grievance on this website, for example. Yet we still suffer for lacking this or that purported entitlement. The other issue, having a tribe, is a far more common source of pain in our individualistic society, as well as the assorted psychological ailments caused by living such unnatural lifestyles.

We agree, but don't you also think that we some level of hardship in order to thrive, as well? I mean. if our current society could continue unabated, at the same time as our living standards improve, we may still become increasingly isolated, and being isolated with one's own thoughts isn't the most healthy of environment. The point is this: are we really more healthy today, with social isolation, a staggering economy and wars - compared to people of the oldendays, who may have had to fight and overcome a wolf, but then they could thrive in the company of their tribe..? The difference is that we, today, have low, if any, control over our circumstances, while the people of the oldendays could overcome their challenges - like a wolf, which is a more concrete threat compared to financial problems - together, and maybe even plan that enounter.

In a way, every generation can blame the preceding one. The hedonism of the Boomers - which later manifested as rampant greed - was probably permitted by their parents because it was so clear that the old ways of violence, national pride, war and shameless sexism/racism/etc. had failed so shamefully. But to be a true cycle, it would need to echo throughout the centuries. Perhaps the last century or two have been anomalies triggered by the unchecked technological progress of the Industrial Revolution.

I see your point! That's interesting. Maybe subsequent generations - or going back to the 19th and 20th centuies - aren't doomed to repeat the faults of previous generations, but to cause completely new problems - on such problem could be the prevalent social isolation and the decline in mental health.

 

[Pluto]

The question of hardship is a good one. It's important to understand that human evolution is not complete. In fact, it's barely started. It doesn't matter if we kill one another using paleolithic wooden clubs or GPS-controlled drones; we are a primitive species.

In the healthiest of societies - for example, friendly small towns - there is no need for upheaval or dysfunction. The healthiest of nations, such as those in Scandinavia, demonstrate political systems with relatively wide-scale egalitarianism. The challenge becomes one of scaling this up to a global level and including the welfare of the flora and fauna kingdoms. This means doing battle with ruthless psychopaths and the political and financial systems that they employ to consolidate their domination. This is the true challenge faced by today's youth.

 

[unimaginativelamp]

Not including racism and civil rights issues

I mean... Those were kind of big ones...

But besides those: sexism, homophobia, transphobia, hatred for any religion that wasn't Christianity, classism...

To name a few...

 

[Julgran]

The question of hardship is a good one. It's important to understand that human evolution is not complete. In fact, it's barely started. It doesn't matter if we kill one another using paleolithic wooden clubs or GPS-controlled drones; we are a primitive species.

In the healthiest of societies - for example, friendly small towns - there is no need for upheaval or dysfunction. The healthiest of nations, such as those in Scandinavia, demonstrate political systems with relatively wide-scale egalitarianism. The challenge becomes one of scaling this up to a global level and including the welfare of the flora and fauna kingdoms. This means doing battle with ruthless psychopaths and the political and financial systems that they employ to consolidate their domination. This is the true challenge faced by today's youth.

I happen to be one of those who live in one of the Scandinavian countries, but I can't say that we are mentally healthy over here, since depression is widespread, even though we have relatively stable living standards.

Who may those ruthless psychopaths be? Do you mean warlords in poorer countries, or corrupt politicians in international organizations, such as the IMF?

 

[whatevs]

The ostracization of eugenics, the scientific reality of human sub-species (races) and of differences between the sexes. Later on, the idea that sexes don't exist at all or can be chosen after birth.

These guys could wipe half of you life bar with a shot - not to be messed with on hard difficulty. Also, heck yeah, The New Republic of California is a better prospect than some weird reenactment of Imperial Rome. But best of all? You in control of a legion of robots, free to mold the Wasteland as you pleased.

 

[Pluto]

I happen to be one of those who live in one of the Scandinavian countries, but I can't say that we are mentally healthy over here, since depression is widespread, even though we have relatively stable living standards.

I've heard that. Perhaps weather, or perhaps having to coexist with the rest of the world are factors. Or maybe it's still difficult just to connect with others.

As for the psychopaths, they have infiltrated just about everything. A few favourites:
Rupert Murdoch, who owns a good percentage of all media worldwide, and uses his influence to manipulate and bombard uneducated people with propaganda until they vote in favour of the interests of the billionaire class
Gina Rhinehart, another Australian billionaire, in fact the country's wealthiest. Uses her massive influence to push for more ecological destruction, mining and fossil fuel support. Has commented that she'd like to see average Australians only make $1 per day.
Richard Sackler, US billionaire who personally engineered the US opioid epidemic that killed tens of thousands of Americans, and the only consequence was having one of his pharmaceutical brands go bankrupt.
Mark Zuckerberg, maker of the algorithm that destroys human relations while enriching himself in the process
Lukashenko/Putin/Kim/etc. Need I say more?

 

[odradek]

Not including racism and civil rights issues

What an odd qualifier lol. Et tu, Kramer?

 

[Weebster]

What an odd qualifier lol. Et tu, Kramer?

I mentioned those because I'm familiar with them already lol