What is this form of bullying/manipulation called?

[Nolan96]

What is it called when someone makes vague suggestions about another person to try to villainize them? It's not gaslighting. Similar to "strawmanning" I guess, but instead of outright making specific accusations, they just say something like, "We *all* know what kind of a person X is, don't we? haha"

It's an effective form of psychological torment and manipulation. It makes people afraid to disagree or question what's being said because they want to feel in on the wise unspoken knowledge. It also lets the imagination run rampant. Suddenly X person is whatever hazy half-defined demon your imagination can vaguely conjure in the back of your mind. Worse than any explicit accusation could ever be. And difficult if not impossible to defend yourself against.

Anyway, I've dealt with it my whole life and it's always been upsetting to me. Especially because my personality type is very straightforward and sincere, and I think people pick up on that very quickly and realize that twisting who I am into this ill-defined smoke-monster is exactly the way to make me lose my mind and feel isolated and hurt, so it's their go-to to use against me.

It'd help if I at least had a name for this technique so I could call it out when it happens.

 

[sopwithcamel]

What is it called when someone makes vague suggestions about another person to try to villainize them? It's not gaslighting. Similar to "strawmanning" I guess, but instead of outright making specific accusations, they just say something like, "We *all* know what kind of a person X is, don't we? haha"

It's an effective form of psychological torment and manipulation. It makes people afraid to disagree or question what's being said because they want to feel in on the wise unspoken knowledge. It also lets the imagination run rampant. Suddenly X person is whatever hazy half-defined demon your imagination can vaguely conjure in the back of your mind. Worse than any explicit accusation could ever be. And difficult if not impossible to defend yourself against.

Anyway, I've dealt with it my whole life and it's always been upsetting to me. Especially because my personality type is very straightforward and sincere, and I think people pick up on that very quickly and realize that twisting who I am into this ill-defined smoke-monster is exactly the way to make me lose my mind and feel isolated and hurt, so it's their go-to to use against me.

It'd help if I at least had a name for this technique so I could call it out when it happens.

I'm not sure either but a few things come to mind: spreading rumors? Antagonizing someone? Dismissing them or being passive aggressive? Maybe it's projection? Not sure if that'll help you but maybe you'll find the words you're looking for

 

[Nolan96]

I'm not sure either but a few things come to mind: spreading rumors? Antagonizing someone? Dismissing them or being passive aggressive? Maybe it's projection? Not sure if that'll help you but maybe you'll find the words you're looking for

It's not spreading rumors. I wish it were. At least rumors are something concrete you can deny or disprove.

It's definitely a way of antagonizing someone, dismissing them, and being passive-aggressive, but it's also more than just that.

Anyway thank you for the response.

 

[Sprite_Geist]

What is it called when someone makes vague suggestions about another person to try to villainize them? It's not gaslighting. Similar to "strawmanning" I guess, but instead of outright making specific accusations, they just say something like, "We *all* know what kind of a person X is, don't we? haha"

Curious... I might have an answer to your question. First of all, though, I may have misunderstood your post; when you mention "vague suggestions" this might come under the category of what is know as a "loaded question". Loaded questions are not necessarily used for bullying - in fact the term is fairly broad - but if what you experienced involved malicious questions that could not be answered without making yourself look "bad" then this could be the right term. I could be wrong also.

 

[Nolan96]

Curious... I might have an answer to your question. First of all, though, I may have misunderstood your post; when you mention "vague suggestions" this might come under the category of what is know as a "loaded question". Loaded questions are not necessarily used for bullying - in fact the term is fairly broad - but if what you experienced involved malicious questions that could not be answered without making yourself look "bad" then this could be the right term. I could be wrong also.

When put into question form, the term "loaded question" definitely matches what I'm talking about.

 

[markimobzzdeasui]

I have faced this from my parents all my life. It has a deep subtle damaging impact. I don't know the exact term but in the resource section here if you are able to access it, there is a thread about manipulators and their numerous tactics along with some excerpts from a related book. Maybe something is mentioned there

 

[WhiteRabbit]

Is this about the "triggered" thread?

 

[Nolan96]

I have faced this from my parents all my life. It has a deep subtle damaging impact. I don't know the exact term but in the resource section here if you are able to access it, there is a thread about manipulators and their numerous tactics along with some excerpts from a related book. Maybe something is mentioned there

Thank you, I might take a look at that. I'm sorry to hear your parents did this to you. It really does just cut right through you; it's like there are no defenses because it comes at every angle and none all at once.

I like your profile image by the way. What is it from? It reminds me of how I feel sometimes in vulnerable moments and actually kind of reflects what I'm talking about with this type of manipulation.

Is this about the "triggered" thread?

Moreso that thread reminded me of this going on in more serious ways in my personal life and made me think to make a post about it.

 

[OldDrummer]

Gaslighting via proxy.

 

[Nolan96]

Gaslighting via proxy.

Not quite. Gaslighting via proxy is playing down or excusing negative qualities of an abuser/manipulator.

What I'm talking about is moreso when an abuser/manipulator tries to convince people (maybe including yourself) that you have negative qualities without specifying what those negative qualities are.

I guess it's close to gaslighting itself but not quite. In fact in my experience it's sometimes like a reverse-gaslighting. Instead of trying to make me out to be crazy, they make me out to be cunningly sinister, when really I'm just feeling very confused and overwhelmed and vulnerable. "That's just how he is. Just what he does and he knows exactly what he's doing. Fucking typical. *Shakes head in disapproval* " And I have no idea what's going on but everyone seems to feel so smart and in on it.

 

[WrongPlaceWrongTime]

Slander: the utterance of false charges or misrepresentations which defame and damage another's reputation

Definition of SLANDER

to utter slander against : defame… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[demuic]

Character assassination?

Character assassination - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

Being a big meanie.

 

[Pluto]

I would call it demonisation. I know it very well. My NPD father was really good at it, as he appealed to emotion and thus never need to provide an objective basis for the pervasive defamation of my character.

In front of the entire extended family and community, he portrayed me as the archetypal aggressive, unreasonable, hostile, lazy young man when the few people who knew me knew that this is not true. Of course, he portrayed himself as the confused, harmless, friendly little old man. People avoided me and in some cases felt a fever-pitch contempt; their visceral reaction was always that I needed to be punished or discarded.

Worse, because I did feel anger in response to the character assassination, I helped fuel his argument that I was unreasonably hostile if I ever tried to respond to it. In the end, he won.

 

[Nolan96]

I would call it demonisation. I know it very well. My NPD father was really good at it, as he appealed to emotion and thus never need to provide an objective basis for the pervasive defamation of my character.

In front of the entire extended family and community, he portrayed me as the archetypal aggressive, unreasonable, hostile, lazy young man when the few people who knew me knew that this is not true. Of course, he portrayed himself as the confused, harmless, friendly little old man. People avoided me and in some cases felt a fever-pitch contempt; their visceral reaction was always that I needed to be punished or discarded.

Worse, because I did feel anger in response to the character assassination, I helped fuel his argument that I was unreasonably hostile if I ever tried to respond to it. In the end, he won.

It's definitely a form of demonisation.

I'm sorry you had to go through that. Situations like that are so hard on kids. An adult might be able to retrospectively see ways they might have handled NPD a little better to avoid some of the manipulation, but as a kid it's impossible not to get trapped in it. I'm sorry nobody saw through and saved you.

 

[waitingforrest]

I would classify it as being passive aggressive, but that's just my opinion. I consider passive aggressive to be trying to make a statement in a indirect way.

Kind of like saying, "That book you wrote was so good for a person like you", for example. It implies that the writer is incompetent at writing in a disguised way. That way they can try to play the victim or make the other person feel like they are too sensitive to comments.

Or saying no offense and following it up with a obviously offensive statement or personal attack.

I do agree that it is a thing that exists, but maybe there isn't a exact term for it.

 

[markimobzzdeasui]

Thank you, I might take a look at that. I'm sorry to hear your parents did this to you. It really does just cut right through you; it's like there are no defenses because it comes at every angle and none all at once.

I like your profile image by the way. What is it from? It reminds me of how I feel sometimes in vulnerable moments and actually kind of reflects what I'm talking about with this type of manipulation.

Moreso that thread reminded me of this going on in more serious ways in my personal life and made me think to make a post about it.

Thanks. Verbal abuse and manipulation is quite dangerous. I consider it as an evolutionary trait of manipulation and abuse. The profile picture is by Alex grey on depression and despair.

 

[Deleted member 8975]

What is it called when someone makes vague suggestions about another person to try to villainize them? It's not gaslighting. Similar to "strawmanning" I guess, but instead of outright making specific accusations, they just say something like, "We *all* know what kind of a person X is, don't we? haha"

It's an effective form of psychological torment and manipulation. It makes people afraid to disagree or question what's being said because they want to feel in on the wise unspoken knowledge. It also lets the imagination run rampant. Suddenly X person is whatever hazy half-defined demon your imagination can vaguely conjure in the back of your mind. Worse than any explicit accusation could ever be. And difficult if not impossible to defend yourself against.

Anyway, I've dealt with it my whole life and it's always been upsetting to me. Especially because my personality type is very straightforward and sincere, and I think people pick up on that very quickly and realize that twisting who I am into this ill-defined smoke-monster is exactly the way to make me lose my mind and feel isolated and hurt, so it's their go-to to use against me.

It'd help if I at least had a name for this technique so I could call it out when it happens.

It's called being a coward. When someone isn't strong, bold or courageous enough to confront someone or let something go so they bully them "indirectly." Bullying is still bullying and they should correct their behavior. Happens far too often.

Another term is 'passive aggression.'

 

[motel rooms]

Being a big meanie.

I loved it when you got accused of sealioning & pretended not to know what that is like a big sealioning meanie, you frustrater of activists!

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

I loved it when you got accused of sealioning & pretended not to know what that is like a big sealioning meanie, you frustrater of activists!

She accused me of sealioning, but the joke's on her because I genuinely am clueless. I'm thinking of putting a warning label for activists in my signature.

 

[motel rooms]

She accused me of sealioning, but the joke's on her because I genuinely am clueless. I'm thinking of putting a warning label for activists in my signature.

Watch out, this sea-lion duck is crazy like a fox.

 

[Flippy]

I would call it demonisation. I know it very well. My NPD father was really good at it, as he appealed to emotion and thus never need to provide an objective basis for the pervasive defamation of my character.

In front of the entire extended family and community, he portrayed me as the archetypal aggressive, unreasonable, hostile, lazy young man when the few people who knew me knew that this is not true. Of course, he portrayed himself as the confused, harmless, friendly little old man. People avoided me and in some cases felt a fever-pitch contempt; their visceral reaction was always that I needed to be punished or discarded.

Worse, because I did feel anger in response to the character assassination, I helped fuel his argument that I was unreasonably hostile if I ever tried to respond to it. In the end, he won.

God the way you describe your father, he sounds very like my mother. His actions are so similar.

One thing she did terrified my youngest sister. She often told stories about men and some women who had stood up to her. Usually they would allude to some sort of violence. Thing is she was the one prone to violence. She had decided to tell a tall tale about me --"throwing his weight around..." to one of her "white knight" male friends.

My sister used to baby sit for them sometimes and when one gave her a ride home, he stopped the car and told her that they had plans to "sort [me] out". She told me that she got the distinct impression they were going to take me somewhere and harm me. She got so distressed that she had a panic attack in his car. And she was desperately trying to get him to understand that it was my mother spreading her lies.

Eventually, this "white knight" fell victim to her behaviour too.

I was a skinny, nervous kid, who wouldn't have known how to "throw his weight around" if his life depended on it.

To answer @Nolan96 's question...

I guess there's lots of ways you could define this behaviour. But "poisoning the well" might be the one I would choose. Basically discredit and undermine someone so that people are less likely to trust them.

Poisoning the Well (Logical Fallacy): Definition and Examples

Poisoning the well occurs when negative information about a person is presented in an attempt to discredit the arguments made by that person.

fallacyinlogic.com

My mother is/was a master at this kind of manipulation :-( She really has caused an invisible crater in the world, that had it been tangible, it would have been an extinction level event.

I remember as a kid being pulled to her side while she gleefully pointed to some massive altercation she had caused by manipulating two or more parties and laughing and proudly, smugly declaring "I DID THAT!".

This sort of thing really gets me angry :-(