what is infinity?

[ksp]

how to attempt to comprehend the concept of infinity ?

to me, this concept is unimaginable - beyond human comprehension, or intelligence

infinity excludes limits - without a start or an end - this is mind boggling

the ∞ symbol is a simple attempt to define a conceptual limit, so that our comprehension can handle a subject that is far beyond our capacities

is space infinite, in terms of upper limit only: 0 to ∞, or -∞ to +∞, or is the latter just an impossibility?
- assuming that negative infinity of space is not possible
-— what does a macro universe imply? (mind blown!)
—- what does a micro universe imply? (is this some sort of negative infinity, relative to our own perception?)

is time infinite ?
- assuming that time can be conceptually negative, relative to our perception?

if 'no', then: the Big Bang Theory implies that 0 is the first second of time (-> 0 to +∞)
if 'yes' then what was the space perceived as, an by whom?

if the Big Bang Theory is true, and if space is 0 to +∞, then:
my theory is that our universe started from a white hole

- a white hole is the other side of a black hole: imploding star that continuously sucks all neighboring matter, including other (smaller) black holes - this also implies finite matter

so a white hole represents our universe (preserving all laws of physics from the previous universe)

our universe also generates a huge numbers of black holes (but not infinite number of black holes)

each black hole that our universe generates is potentially another universe, on the other side of the black hole

so the number of black holes generated by a universe is very large, but finite

my theory is that all universes are finite, but the cycle (of regeneration of black holes) is infinite - finite universes but repeating. similar to the concept of 'recursion' in computer programming:

---

the function recursiveFunction is defined by a variable (or constant) plus the recursiveFunction itself:

START FUNCTION
- recursiveFunction =
—- Step 1 is: 1 + recursiveFunction result;
—- Step 2 is: if my result (current rF) is bigger than 100, i (current rF) will return 0, else i will return 1;
END FUNCTION

(this function will generate the numbers 0 to 100 inclusive)

Step 2 represents the termination of the current recursive cycle (terminating condition)

if we don't include the terminating condition, we end up with an infinite recursive function
that translates to: consumption of all available memory - in short, we crash the computer…

---

in my theory, we end up with an infinite cycle of universes, consuming a finite space, but infinite time
(this theory also implies that new energy is not created, nor lost; does this imply that energy is finite?!)
so space is finite, but time is infinite; this implies that time-space is invalid: time is a separate entity than space

this is what mind is capable of: infinite torture (i just 'love' my suffering :)

 

[Darkover]

infinite something that keeps growing in size, i want to live in infinite but space is not infinite the smallest scale is the planck constant, just imagine if electrons flowing through a copper wire could go fast than the speed of light but they don't they go about less than 1 percent the speed of light it would take 18 seconds to go around the earth at that speed, computers could be exponential in there speed at calculating things if we lived in infinite, a computer could brute force every possible image of me and the environment now thats something i've dream of seeing for as long as i can remember but there would be more images than there are atoms in the universe so its all impossible, big bang theory is obvious real just like evolution theory. we can dream but never have i'd love for computers to be infinitely fast we could just brute force everything you could have AI alive in a day

 

[ksp]

smallest scale is the planck constant

speed of light

you are still referring to human limitations (limits of our understanding)
the planck constant is what humanity is capable to conceptualize (inherent limit)

the speed of light is extremely fast - but is not infinitely fast

the only concept that even tries to attempt 0, in terms of time, is the idea of 'the spooky action at a distance' introduced by Einstein in quantum mechanics, where a particle interacts with another particle with another particle, an instant - no delay in time, whatsoever

i'd love for computers to be infinitely fast

i'd love that too :)

 

[Forever Sleep]

Perhaps one of the biggest questions there is @ksp .

Erm... I don't know- my brain is too small to compute...

Did you know animals experience time differently to us? I only found out about that recently. Apparently, dogs experence it slower, cats experience it faster and cold blooded animals experience it according to what temperature they are!

Anyhow- I digress. OUR experience of this thing we call time will die when we do. We don't need to be here for other things to experience it though. If this planet is either killed off due to us, or it crashes into the sun- it will do so at a certain point in time. Presumably, things will still take place in time after that though- they won't happen all at once presumably. Time will presumably still exist so long as there are still objects in space.

Is space infinite? I guess no one will know till/if they find the edge of it. It's too big for me to get my head around. Still, being inside some kind of enormous box or sphere with a boundary seems even more ridiculous. If the universe indeed has boundaries- what exists outside it? Surely- more space?!!

What defines the universe? Does there need to be a certain amount of matter present for it to be classed as part of the universe and not just space? I've heard that the universe has been expanding since the big bang- but I don't get what it is expanding into... apparently it's not space... See- I could get my head round an enormous cluster of 'stuff'- stars, planets and whatever else that makes up the universe expanding (due to the initial force of the big bang) in an infinite amount of space but apparently, that's not it...

There's some weird connection to time according to Wikipedia- supposedly the universe isn't expanding into anything- it's the scale of space that is changing... See what you make of it- Physics was my ABSOLUTE worst subject:

'The expansion of the universe is the increase in distance between any two given gravitationally unbound parts of the observable universe with time. It is an intrinsic expansion whereby the scale of space itself changes. The universe does not expand "into" anything and does not require space to exist "outside" it.' Wikipedia

 

[jodes2]

I reckon space is a limited "thing" outside of which there is nothing. Not even time. Just guessing but that's my guess, since things even happen in empty space like particles coming out of nowhere, I don't think there's an infinite amount of that happening. I dunno. It's weird to think anything exists at all. Let alone in an infinite amount. Unless maybe it's all an illusion and we don't exist. I'm not even stoned I'll be quiet now

 

[ksp]

to the first part of your answer:

OUR experience of this thing we call time will die when we do

love this! (our own time and perception will cease to exist - very much looking towards that!)

We don't need to be here for other things to experience it though

so billions of years before us, and trillions of trillions of years after us, events will continue, but 'no one will hear the tree in the forest' - i don't think i'll care much about them :) (i'm so selfish)

Is space infinite? I guess no one will know till/if they find the edge of it.

yeah, we're getting closer and closer to our limits - the known universe (a few trillions of trillions of galaxies)

Surely- more space?!!

lol

Does there need to be a certain amount of matter present for it to be classed as part of the universe and not just space?

excellent question !!! i made a small addendum to the original post:

in my theory, we end up with an infinite cycle of universes, consuming a finite space, but infinite time
(this theory also implies that new energy is not created, nor lost; does this imply that energy is finite?!)

I've heard that the universe has been expanding since the big bang- but I don't get what it is expanding into... apparently it's not space...

thank you kindly, for adding to my torture !

supposedly the universe isn't expanding into anything- it's the scale of space that is changing...

informative! thanks :)

---

I reckon space is a limited "thing" outside of which there is nothing. Not even time.

wow, never even thought about that - so when space ends, time ends…
but time must continue to exist outside of space, it's just that there are no events to measure it

hm…

thank you so much for adding to my misery !

Unless maybe it's all an illusion and we don't exist. I'm not even stoned I'll be quiet now

time flies when you're having fun :) (speaking of relativity:)

 

[Forever Sleep]

Forever Sleep said:
supposedly the universe isn't expanding into anything- it's the scale of space that is changing...

informative! thanks :)

Is it?!! Can you explain it to me then please?!! It's like saying that the meter stick isn't actually becoming any longer but the distance between the increments of measurement is increasing. How can it be classed a scientific unit of measurement if it changes? I just don't get it but like I say- I was crap at physics!

 

[ksp]

Is it?!! Can you explain it to me then please?!! It's like saying that the meter stick isn't actually becoming any longer but the distance between the increments of measurement is increasing. How can it be classed a scientific unit of measurement if it changes? I just don't get it but like I say- I was crap at physics!

i was crap at physics too, lol (barely achieving passing grades:)

the way i see this explanation is this:

'The expansion of the universe is the increase in distance between any two given gravitationally unbound parts of the observable universe with time. It is an intrinsic expansion whereby the scale of space itself changes. The universe does not expand "into" anything and does not require space to exist "outside" it.' Wikipedia

i start by moving in the opposite direction: not by moving from here to the infinite, but by moving from here to the big bang (reverse direction). so if a meter, here and now, would be a lot smaller than a meter was one second after the big bang.

not only the 'the distance between the increments of measurement is' smaller (the increments are smaller too), but the actual stick is also smaller: the stick of 1 meter, the way we perceive it now, was in fact about 1 centimeter long, 1 second after the big bang. continuing backwards in time, from 1 second after the big bang, to 0 seconds, our 1 meter-now, would be 0 meters long

---

so the big bang event implies that space didn't exist at all, outside of itself (there was no space around the big bang). i think of our white hole as inexistent befor the big bang - the white hole was the other side of a black hole, which previously was a star. so, a star is a positive space, but the implosion of the star onto itself generated a negative space (-∞ to 0) in the previous universe, but that negative space, in the other universe, is now our positive space: our own universe of 0 to ∞

anyway, our current universe started at second 0 (relative to us and our big bang)
so the previous universe didn't contain our negative space (didn't contain our universe)
but the previous universe is now containing a negative space (new universe)

so, the space itself is being re-cycled

---

now, by moving from here to to infinite:

our initial 1 meter stick was of size 0 before the big bang
1 second after the big band was about 1 centimeter long

now, our 1 meter long is actually 1 meter (relative to our current perception)
but if we would be alive one trillion years from now, that would be 1 kilometer long

all people would be about 1.5 kilometers to 2 kilometer tall - but we would still perceive ourselves as 2 meters tall; an external observer would certainly notice the huge difference in our universe. this is implied by the general relativity, that can be applied to other universes, relative to ours

…

sorry for the long explanation (but this is how i see our current science trying to explain relativity)

 

[Forever Sleep]

i was crap at physics too, lol (barely achieving passing grades:)

the way i see this explanation is this:


i start by moving in the opposite direction: not by moving from here to to infinite, but by moving from here to the big bang (reverse direction). so if a meter (or cm), here and now, would be a lot smaller than a meter was on second after the big bang.

not only the 'the distance between the increments of measurement is' smaller, but the actual stick is also smaller: the stick of 1 meter, the way we perceive it now, was in fact about 1 centimeter long after 1 second, after the big bang. continuing backwards in time, from 1 second after the big bang, to 0 seconds, our 1 meter-now, would be 0 meters long

---

so the big bang event implies that space didn't exist at all, outside of itself (there was no space around the big bang). i think of our white hole as inexistent befor the big bang - the white hole was the other side of a black hole, which previously was a star. so, a star is a positive space, but the implosion of the star onto itself generated a negative space (-∞ to 0) in the previous universe, but that negative space, in the other universe, is now our positive space: our own universe of 0 to ∞

anyway, our current universe started at second 0 (relative to us and our big bang)
so the previous universe didn't contain our negative space (didn't contain our universe)
but the previous universe is now containing a negative space (new universe)

so, the space itself is being re-cycled

---

now, by moving from here to to infinite:

our initial 1 meter stick was of size 0 before the big bang
1 second after the big band was about 1 centimeter long

now, our 1 meter long is actually 1 meter (relative to our current perception)
but if we would be alive one trillion years from now, that would be 1 kilometer long

all people would be about 1.5 kilometers to 2 kilometer tall - but we would still perceive ourselves as 2 meters tall; an external observer would certainly notice the huge difference in our universe this is implied by the general relativity, that can be applied to other universes, relative to ours

…

sorry for the long explanation (but this is how i see our current science trying to explain relativity)

This is brilliant! Even I understood bits of that. Like a balloon in a way- our measurement has stretched as it expanded. Still can't get my head around there being no space around any of this but I just think my brain is too small to imagine it all.

Space and the universe feels too 'floaty' for it not to be floating in something much bigger! Lol. You see my trouble- I need to understand things in a physical manner that I can picture. My brain can't compute equations!

On a vaguely related subject- do you believe in aliens and/or multiple dimensions? I think it's more likely there are other life forms out there. Maybe other universes too- why not? The whole thing is so weird isn't it? It kind of freaks me out when I start really thinking about it.

I think my favourite theory is that scene at the end of Men in Black- (1997 film) that we're all inside a marble!

 

[ksp]

Like a balloon in a way- our measurement has stretched as it expanded

exactly ! (i meant to include that in my explanation, but i forgot, so you mentioned it :)

You see my trouble- I need to understand things in a physical manner that I can picture. My brain can't compute equations!

i have the same problem, yet my mind insists that i think about futile things… (i'm an idiot, lol)

do you believe in aliens and/or multiple dimensions? I think it's more likely there are other life forms out there

i think we are obsessed with our relative perception (my here-end-now)

considering that infinity exists, is not possible that life only evolved just here

but we jump to the hope that other intelligent life exists, and near to us (so we can exchange information, and cheat progress)

most people (including scientists) forget the 14 billion time span in our universe (not just the space dimension)

it's very probable that intelligent life existed before us. but the time difference is too vast
many civilizations probably existed before us, and many more after us
maybe they destroyed themselves - likely for us, too

maybe they still exist now, but the space difference is unimaginable for us (or them) - just from one side of our galaxy to the other, never mind from one galaxy to another galaxy, trillions and trillions of light-years farther away. not only that, but considering the expansion of our universe, which is faster than light, we will never be able to exchange any meaningful information, with any potential intelligent life, outside of our own; eventually, we'll not even be able to see any other galaxies

we will continue to have a solitary existence, unfortunately…

I think my favourite theory is that scene at the end of Men in Black- (1997 film) that we're all inside a marble!

exactly like that !!!

 

[itsallpointless]

Just being yourself is the highest way of grasping infinity you can achieve. You are perfectly unique, a non duplicate offspring of cosmic randomization

 

[ksp]

ps. after finishing this post, i decided that my response is simple rambling - feel free to ignore it

---

Just being yourself is the highest way of grasping infinity you can achieve.

i want to agree with you - i take comfort in the concept of 'perfection'; i feel unique - in my limited knowledge

but i want to push my limits.

if i accept that infinity exists , this excludes any limits: there is no ''highest" or "lowest".
'highest way of grasping infinity you can achieve' - this is our limit of comprehension

infinity is incompatible with uniqueness - it implies that any duplicate must exist (or possible a lot more)
i'm comfortable with vast limits - the known universe, but that doesn't imply that the universe is finite; it's quite the opposite - the universe doesn't end, but my comprehension of it does

to me, this comprehension is similar to the mentality that earth is flat. ages ago people thought that if you fire an arrow beyond the horizon, it will fall off the edge of the earth. we've evolved, our understanding evolved: we know that the earth doesn't have an edge, but if your arrow would be perpetual, it would hit you at the back of your head. also, if you measure the sphere from its center you will find the limit

what if the universe is not endless in the traditional sense: the fabric of spacetime curves in unpredictable ways, even onto itself. my mind is blown again, but i want to push further:

"two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

i'm sure about my stupidity, lol :)

You are perfectly unique, a non duplicate offspring of cosmic randomization

infinity is incompatible with perfection, to me - the only perfection could exist only if space and time are infinite, but matter and energy don't exist. in such a case an infinite universe is completely empty; void of anything - no light, no energy, no consciousness, no though. a perpetual infinite universe where there are no events, of any kind. an eternal empty universe, that contains a perpetual non-event - to my this would be a possibility of perfection

i think that our current universe is moving towards that perfection: a space where even the last photon becomes non-existen; where every blackhole has evaporated

but when the last two super blackholes have devoured each other, and the last one evaporated, does this mean that it consumed itself? does this imply that time, space, and energy have been somehow transferred to another newly formed universe? is this some kind of 'reset'? in which randomness continues in an endless loop? (or multiple universes / loops). if in the last blackhole, all laws of physics are invalid, this could potentially be a very effective reboot

'perfectly unique, a non duplicate offspring of cosmic randomization' - this is only relative to our known universe
how about the other sides of the universe (unknown)?
how about an infinite set of infinite universes?
in an infinity, that cosmic randomization is more than probable that it will be duplicated (actually i think it impossible not to be duplicated)

if i think about it, i can see one other possibility of absolute uniqueness: our infinite universe, containing infinite inner universes: if a human being is an infinite universe. if i am infinite (inwardly - space-wise) from 0 to -∞, only then i could be absolutely unique. my consciousness would be totally unique. but then my death would also imply that i have never existed before my birth, and will never exist again…

if this doesn't make sense to anyone, that's fine - i'm used to my own torment (i'll feel like a misunderstood artist, as always - my art is self-inflicted :)

---

side note to self: article about death being an illusion

Is Death an Illusion? Evidence Suggests Death Isn’t the End

Life is an adventure that transcends our ordinary linear way of thinking.

www.psychologytoday.com

i don't really agree with it, but found it interesting because it forced me out of my comfort zone

 

[Csmith8827]

This is old News. I already defined this and posted it on my Facebook.


Listen:

Like...imagine every grain of sand on all the beaches of earth representing another earth or planet where life exists. Now do the same thing with all of the beaches on those planets. So on and so on.

That's infinity. A number so big or large you can't fathom or process essentially...

 

[DustInTheWind]

The issue is that it's so easy to talk about the topic of infinity, but there is no way to explain it since it's impossible to measure by any quantity. It's really just a theoretical concept. And this is not even discussing the concept of different sizes of infinities (also a theoretical concept).

This is old News. I already defined this and posted it on my Facebook.


Listen:

Like...imagine every grain of sand on all the beaches of earth representing another earth or planet where life exists. Now do the same thing with all of the beaches on those planets. So on and so on.

That's infinity. A number so big or large you can't fathom or process essentially...

As mentioned, this process to represent infinity in grain of sand would not even be close to 1% of infinity.

I recommend reading through stanford's page on the topic from a philosophical view (and some math).

 

[CTB Dream]

Not able rxprss injury damage, this no complex, inf mean X always x+1, practic no exist but refer arbit large ,walk walk one step more theory math have physic no have, this simil apply all see life fault one no posbl life infini ,infini = deteriorat factor

 

[ksp]

I recommend reading through stanford's page on the topic from a philosophical view (and some math).

thank you ! looking forward to distracting my mind - it's a good start, that not necessarily focus on mathematical concepts (like wikipedia). a more up-to-date general knowledge that includes philosophical views

i think i started this thread thinking about this aspect:

3. There is also a strict, mathematical sense, according to which 'infinite' quantities or magnitudes are those that are measurable but that have no finite measure;

Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

but now i realize that the subject is vast (i have some reading to do:)

---

inf mean X always x+1

yes, i think math could be an easier way to wrap my mind around the concept
('infini = deteriorat factor' - this is very intriguing !!)

---

i see more and more paradoxes related to infinity, such as:

if energy is never created, nor lost - is energy infinite, or finite? the same goes for matter
if i want to doubt infinity: if space or time are finite, what is there beyond their limits? (is nothingness infinite?)
if 0 to 1 contains an infinite series of rational numbers, is that infinity bounded by limits (0 and 1)?

 

[DustInTheWind]

if energy is never created, nor lost - is energy infinite, or finite? the same goes for matter

Since energy is constant, if the universe is finite then there is a finite amount of energy. Energy and matter are kinda "exchangeable", loosely explained, so if one is finite, the other has to be too. We can't study the universe as a whole, only what's observable, which is a finite universe.

if 0 to 1 contains an infinite series of rational numbers, is that infinity bounded by limits (0 and 1)?

You can kinda think of them like that (if I understood you correctly), for example, you can not go from 0 to 1 on the rational numbers, since there are uncountable many of them. You can always come up with a new one that is in between.

Kinda fun writing about this here, Georg Cantor was bullied into depression for the rest of his life for stating this.

As pathetic as it sounds, math was one of the reasons I am still here... Kinda enjoying it too much.

 

[ksp]

Since energy is constant, if the universe is finite then there is a finite amount of energy. Energy and matter are kinda "exchangeable", loosely explained, so if one is finite, the other has to be too.

that's how i see it too. i think energy and matter are constantly reused in infinite cycles (like recursion)

for example, you can not go from 0 to 1 on the rational numbers, since there are uncountable many of them. You can always come up with a new one that is in between.

exactly!

Kinda fun writing about this here, Georg Cantor was bullied into depression for the rest of his life for stating this.

this, to me, is inconceivable: what some brilliant people need to put up for being intelligent (i need to read up on Georg Cantor - thanks)

As pathetic as it sounds, math was one of the reasons I am still here... Kinda enjoying it too much.

at least i'm glad you find this so enjoyable: better to have too much joy than too much suffering (we have more then enough suffering from all other directions unfortunately)

 

[alivefornow]

A mathematical concept that enables a whole range of useful calculations. Not something real, though.

 

[Darkover]

1 meter = 1,000,000,000 nanometer
1 millimeter = 1,000,000 nanometer

the circumference of the earth is 40,075,000 meters or 40,075,000,000,000,000 nanometers
the radius of the earth in meters 6,371,000 meters or 6,371,000,000,000,000 nanometers

enclosed volume of a sphere V = 4/3 * 6,371,000,000,000,000^3 *pi
equals 1.08×10^48 or
1,080,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

The number of atoms in the world is around 1.3 x 10^50.


300,000,000,000,000,000 nanometers the speed of light in nano meters per second
94 billion light years to meters
94,000,000,000

How many seconds are there in a year of 365 days? 31,536,000 seconds
300,000,000,000,000,000 the speed of light in nanometer times the number of second in a year
equals
9,460,800,000,000,000,000,000,000

How many meters are in a light-year?
9.461e+15
9,460,730,472,580,800 metres
9,460,730,472,580,800,000,000,000 nanometers travel in one year at the speed of light
9,460,730,472,580,800,000,000,000*94,000,000,000 94 billion light years
equals
889,308,664,422,595,200,000,000,000,000,000,000 how wide the universe is in nanometers
889,308,664,423,000,064,616,544,040,104,848,432 how wide the universe is in nanometers

it would take this many seconds to travel from end of the unverise to the another or 34 trillion days at the speed of light
2,964,362,214,743,333,548 seconds
/86400 convert from second to days
equals
34,309,747,855,825 days

number of atoms in the human body 7,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
there's 8 billion humans on the earth they make up 56,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms

The Speed of Light is EXTREMELY Slow

 

[ksp]

The number of atoms in the world is around…

you like to torture yourself

i really like some of your threads, and i wanted to answer them but i didn't get a chance - you have many views that are uncommon and outside the box!!

related to this topic: i spent a lot of time on this subject (without updating the thread) and our views are quite similar… however, i think you might be a bit too literal - not many people are so fascinated with exact numbers and probably will lose interest; besides, some of these numbers are inconceivable for normal people (you need to be obsessed about these ideas, to find them fascinating - and that is pure torture)

whatever number you can come up with, that number is far less then the infinity

you are thinking only about our universe:

our universe is definitely finite (Edwin Hubble) - all galaxies move away from each other, so our universe started from a 'big bang', obviously

how about a few trillions of trillions - of trillions - of universes?
even that number is infinitely smaller than an actual infinity !

how about a negative infinity - our Planck is infinitely huge compared to a negative infinity

---

my following thoughts are extremely depressing (similar to some of your thoughts)

the most important statement in our universe, and in all other universes:

- existence exists !

that's it - this most important existential question of all
Why there is anything at all - Wikipedia

so, trying to be logical about all this: if existence exists
- infinity exists:
— if one universe exists (and is finite), what is there beyond its edge?
— if more then one universes exists, then what?

- if i exist, and if infinity exist, however small of the possibility of my existence,

it's very probable that i have existed, an infinite number of times, and i will exist again - for an infinite number of times, with exactly the same existence that have experienced in my current life

not only that, but my consciousness has existed in all possible forms - from a small and conscious animal, to unfathomable form of intelligence - not only an extraterrestrial being on another planet in our universe, but a universe that we wouldn't be able to imagine in our current form

this is extremely depressing, and really hope that i am incorrect…

the fact remains that in our current form of existence will never know what's beyond our death…

my theory:
we exist - undeniable
we will die - undeniable
we might become self-aware again - without our previous memories, or previous experiences

our death is simply a fundamental coma (a sleep without dreams or awareness) - complete reboot of awareness, and we don't experience anything during this 'death'

i think that our self-awareness is a simple cycle (similar to day / night cycle) and our consciousness will restart from the last moment of our death (one second after), to a few trillions years in the future - not experiencing any awareness during out 'sleep'

our next self-awareness will start from zero again: birth, basic needs, maturity, than death again…

i think that life is a perpetual struggle to defeat constant entropy

so our consecutive consciousnesses will be a continuous awareness of infinite needs: physical and intellectual

- our death is just a temporary illusion… we are all dust - in a temporary wind…

i really hope i'm wrong, but we will never know…

---

because of all these existential questions i was also thinking about another subject, and another theory:

- the macro-cosmos (universe) is not aligned to the micro-cosmos (quantum physics) - huge conflict!
- they don't correlate because the micro-cosmos is universal
- quantum mechanics laws are different (much bigger mystery than our universe)
- quantum physics is the basic building blocks of all universes
- including other laws that are incomprehensible to us, from unimaginable universes
- our current universe is built on the building blocks of quantum existence
- our universe is a sub-set of quantum existence
- the quantum is the base of everything in all existence

this is why the laws of physics in our universe don't align with quantum physics

---

to anyone reading this (including Darkover): please feel free to ignore my thoughts - it's understandable if you find them uninteresting or uncomfortable

but i do appreciate any input, of any form, including disagreements - in fact, i welcome all disagreements !