Discussion What if your "bullies" were right and honest...?

[TAW122]

I want to preface this by saying that I don't condone my bullies or ANY bullies in general and my empathy goes to other people who were bullied in their lives (childhood, adolescence, adulthood). Also, no I don't have Stockholm Syndrome either because I don't bear any affection or care to my tormentors or ANY tormentors in general. This is just a discussion about bullies in general and offering my alternative angle/perspective on them especially after looking at things on a more realistic way. I want to also make it clear that I don't condone nor excuse their actions and what they (the bullies) do is despicable indeed. They are still assholes and jerks at the end of the day.

With that said, here is my topic of discussion, which is What if the (or your) bullies are correct (and honest), but they are still assholes, would you hate or resent them less than dishonest, idealistic pro-lifers and other NPCs (vast majority of society out there in the real world)?

Personally, I have more disdain and disgust towards pro-lifers and the majority of NPCs who lie, dismiss, and even make excuses to de-escalate and invalidate our suffering. While these people aren't bullies in the overt way, they are covert bullies and I don't respect those who are dishonest about things. While it's true that these NPC's want to not hurt others' feelings by being polite, it is certainly a disservice to others by feeding them 'feel good' platitudes, dismissing their claims and grievances and taking the moral high ground, and of course by making false-promises that lead to nowhere. Then turn around and blame the victim (victim of bullying) for not recovering or getting better. Sure, let's put the onus on the victim to "get over it" and use guilt & shame tactics. Because they'll thank me (us) later! /s

So in conclusion, I don't condone nor like the bullies, but if there was a lesser evil, it would be the "honest" asshole and bully than the dishonest NPC's that roam about in this shitty world. Mind you, neither of them are good nor preferable, but if left with two choices, I'd choose the asshole honest bully over the nice dishonest NPC the vast majority of the time because at least the person is honest, and also I believe in self-defense and vengeance in situations that warrant it, but that's a different topic for another thread.

Feel free to discuss this and/or throw in your thoughts on this topic.

 

[Hollow Point]

To answer your question, I would still resent the honest bully. It's a interesting thought to challenge, but I feel people who actively torment somebody for pleasure/ release are far worse then the NPCs who just have shitty opinions and attitudes.

I rather have a fake smile thrown my way then a fist. I dont even want to give a bully credit for being honest. Rarely are they clever enough to bully you about something you are not already aware of. So they are just reflecting flaws you already know at you, for their own stupid reasons.

The only credit I can give bullys, is they create great character in the people who stand up to them. Especially growing up. If you have that struggle of being challenged and treated unfairly already mastered by the time you start to mature, it can be a good thing. It could also make somebody grow bitter too, but I thought I would mention the good side. Overcoming a bully fills you with pride and can give you lots of self worth. As far as people who dont get involved in your business, I'd try not to pay them any mind.

 

[Life sucks]

Its all situational. In this case, most likely you can avoid prolifers somehow but bullies are toxic assholes who harm personally and sometimes its unavoidable. Anyway, toxic asshole humans are shit, comparing shit or better/worse shit is still shit.

 

[Sweet Release]

Thats an interesting point you have made and I was thinking of posting something similar.
I will agree that a covert bully is more dangerous as they will play with your emotions as they gradually undermine you.
However an 'honest' bully can't use that shitty excuse of "I'm just being honest with you" as they go about destroying a person.

Taking this in another direction I often struggled with the long term effects of bullying as an adult as I was horrified to think the bullies might have been right all along.
As a result I was desperate to try to prove them wrong in everything I did.
I became very insecure and believed that nothing I ever did was good enough.
I know this is deviating from the point you made but the fear that the bullies were right is something I can massively relate to as it has effected a great deal of my life.

Having said that I can see how being promised that "your life will get better" blah blah blah... can lead to soul destroying disappointment.

 

[TAW122]

To answer your question, I would still resent the honest bully. It's a interesting thought to challenge, but I feel people who actively torment somebody for pleasure/ release are far worse then the NPCs who just have shitty opinions and attitudes.

I rather have a fake smile thrown my way then a fist. I dont even want to give a bully credit for being honest. Rarely are they clever enough to bully you about something you are not already aware of. So they are just reflecting flaws you already know at you, for their own stupid reasons.

The only credit I can give bullys, is they create great character in the people who stand up to them. Especially growing up. If you have that struggle of being challenged and treated unfairly already mastered by the time you start to mature, it can be a good thing. It could also make somebody grow bitter too, but I thought I would mention the good side. Overcoming a bully fills you with pride and can give you lots of self worth. As far as people who dont get involved in your business, I'd try not to pay them any mind.

I see and that makes sense. Don't get me wrong, I still condemn the bully, it's just that I resent the NPC's more than I would resent the bully. They both suck nevertheless. As for your last point, yes that is the one "positive" by-product that comes from people who get out of bullying, but of course, at the cost of other things (emotional and psychological damage later in life).

Its all situational. In this case, most likely you can avoid prolifers somehow but bullies are toxic assholes who harm personally and sometimes its unavoidable. Anyway, toxic asshole humans are shit, comparing shit or better/worse shit is still shit.

True, and one other thing is if a bully becomes a former bully, then yes I could forgive him/her, and unless they have done something exceptional in addition to turning over a new leaf, then they would still not receive the same level of respect as that of one who isn't a bully and also honest (those are the enlightened ones and the kinds of people I greatly respect).

Thats an interesting point you have made and I was thinking of posting something similar.
I will agree that a covert bully is more dangerous as they will play with your emotions as they gradually undermine you.
However an 'honest' bully can't use that shitty excuse of "I'm just being honest with you" as they go about destroying a person.

Taking this in another direction I often struggled with the long term effects of bullying as an adult as I was horrified to think the bullies might have been right all along.
As a result I was desperate to try to prove them wrong in everything I did.
I became very insecure and believed that nothing I ever did was good enough.
I know this is deviating from the point you made but the fear that the bullies were right is something I can massively relate to as it has effected a great deal of my life.

Having said that I can see how being promised that "your life will get better" blah blah blah... can lead to soul destroying disappointment.

Good post and as far as "proving them wrong", sometimes it can work but it is very situational and may/not always apply in every facet of life. Also as far as your last point, yes that is true too, too many people who aren't actual bullies don't relate nor understand and they think what they say as "advice" (usually cliches and thoughtless remarks parroted about from people to people) will help even if it doesn't help. I can't fault them for ignorance but I can fault them for denial (as in the refusal to see the other point of view and acknowledge it but rather 'dismiss' what they don't get and lazily write it off. It doesn't do us any favors nor improve things.)

Oh and while on the point of NPC's delusional and dishonest, false promises & platitudes, when I made the posts regarding my social life and also about people ghosting through FB/social media and what not (in before anyone claims that FB/social media is not IRL), I've highlighted the point that these same people who claim to care (both IRL and online) and want to help aren't really helpful but just want to pat themselves on the back, humbly brag to their peers and social groups/circles, virtue signaling, and the like while dismissing people like us. They don't consider what they say or do is helpful but rather care about looking/acting helpful and of course, they write it off as the recipient (us) didn't want to help ourselves when in fact their advice and inability to acknowledge our plight is the real problem.

Therefore, I have additional reasons to despise these NPCs "a bit more" than the honest bullies, because these NPC's are not only dishonest, ignorant, and unwilling to "actually" help us, but are rather just ticking off their virtue signaling checkbox ("I helped him/her! I'm a good person! Yaaaay!!!) and would also be the same very people who would dismiss, abandon, ghost, block, and act like we don't exist while pretending to "help" us. Just disingenuous, dishonest people. If they weren't so dishonest and were more straightforward, then perhaps I wouldn't dislike them more than the honest bullies. I digress though.

 

[waived]

With that said, here is my topic of discussion, which is What if the (or your) bullies are correct (and honest), but they are still assholes, would you hate or resent them less than dishonest, idealistic pro-lifers and other NPCs (vast majority of society out there in the real world)?

I would still be at odds with them because I would be able to see the actual reasons why they were a shit head with their presentation of it, and tbh the people being shit heads are also the ones with other shit opinions and reproduce the social peace of the dominant order. Context matters too though, what's latent social conditioning that presents as a sour taste vs open conflict both interpersonal and systemic? How do we define the layers of social war?

 

[waterbottleman]

I don't think I was bullied that much as a kid, I mean I was bullied but everyone gets bullied.

Ive been bullied by people who said things about me that definitely had a grain of truth in them and I've also been bullied by people who said things about me that I knew were completely wrong. Without a shadow of a doubt I have far more hatred towards the latter than the former.

I don't know why, but it really pisses me off when people put words in my mouth and pretend they can read my mind when they are completely wrong. I don't know why but I think it's the arrogance of a person thinking they're so right and can read my mind when they're so incorrect really makes my blood boil and disgusts me. The sheer intellectual dishonesty of it just pisses me off more than almost anything on this earth.

This is actually a very big reason why I refrain from talking about politics with just about anyone anymore online because 99 percent of political discussions these days is akin to the form of bullying I described here. People label you with something pejorative, then pretend they know all your opinions and proceed with knocking down straw man opinions they claim you believe because they think they can read your mind. This is what virtually everyone does now online when talking about politics and the disgusting intellectual dishonesty of it all really pisses me off.

I think truth is sacred yet virtually no one in politics gives a rats ass about it and people who are usually decent people turn into total arrogant stupid fuckwhits when it comes to politics. It's also for this reason that I think journalists are the lowest of the low of any career a person can have. Journalists these days, most of them at least, are sophists and propagandists who aren't honest investigators into empirical truth like they claim they are. It is for this reason that I believe most journalists are the bottom feeders of society.

 

[TAW122]

I would still be at odds with them because I would be able to see the actual reasons why they were a shit head with their presentation of it, and tbh the people being shit heads are also the ones with other shit opinions and reproduce the social peace of the dominant order. Context matters too though, what's latent social conditioning that presents as a sour taste vs open conflict both interpersonal and systemic? How do we define the layers of social war?

Well since most people (especially the majority of them) lack introspect and critical thinking and oftenly fall into the herd mentality rather than going about their own way so they tend to follow what others do. So in a sense, there is little gain or incentive for people to do the right thing or be decent, but more to gain for being awful as well as less deterrence from bad behaviors, thus resulting in NPC-like thinking and lack of questioning the status quo. I'm not too sure what you mean by layers of social war in the latter question, so if you could clarify that would be appreciated.

I don't think I was bullied that much as a kid, I mean I was bullied but everyone gets bullied.

Ive been bullied by people who said things about me that definitely had a grain of truth in them and I've also been bullied by people who said things about me that I knew were completely wrong. Without a shadow of a doubt I have far more hatred towards the latter than the former.

I don't know why, but it really pisses me off when people put words in my mouth and pretend they can read my mind when they are completely wrong. I don't know why but I think it's the arrogance of a person thinking they're so right and can read my mind when they're so incorrect really makes my blood boil and disgusts me. The sheer intellectual dishonesty of it just pisses me off more than almost anything on this earth.

This is actually a very big reason why I refrain from talking about politics with just about anyone anymore online because 99 percent of political discussions these days is akin to the form of bullying I described here. People label you with something pejorative, then pretend they know all your opinions and proceed with knocking down straw man opinions they claim you believe because they think they can read your mind. This is what virtually everyone does now online when talking about politics and the disgusting intellectual dishonesty of it all really pisses me off.

I think truth is sacred yet virtually no one in politics gives a rats ass about it and people who are usually decent people turn into total arrogant stupid fuckwhits when it comes to politics. It's also for this reason that I think journalists are the lowest of the low of any career a person can have. Journalists these days, most of them at least, are sophists and propagandists who aren't honest investigators into empirical truth like they claim they are. It is for this reason that I believe most journalists are the bottom feeders of society.

I can relate to the latter part, especially when people put words in my mouth and pretend they know what I would say but ultimately end up completely wrong. It is not only dismissive, rude, but also dishonest and it drives me crazy when they do it, so I feel the same as you do. As for the other points you make, yes it's bad in regular interactions and even worse then religion, politics, or any other personal and/or serious topics are brought up. With respect to the truth, yes what you said is accurate especially with major news outlets, they either pander to one extreme or another and oftenly report things (and twist the truth) in such a way that will fulfill their agenda or the status quo. While I wouldn't shun every journalist (as without them we would be blind to the events of the world around us), only the major ones that push a certain angle. I do hold a little bit of respect for the independent (and honest) journalists though.

 

[faraway_beach]

So I have a choice between a bully who calls me a coward for wanting to CTB, or a hypocrite who tells me that it will get better? The bully is not telling me anything I don't already know.

 

[TAW122]

So I have a choice between a bully who calls me a coward for wanting to CTB, or a hypocrite who tells me that it will get better? The bully is not telling me anything I don't already know.

In that case, well, then the bully is an asshole and he/she would be worse than the ignorant normies (masses) in society.