Discussion What do you think about this article written by a pro-lifer?

[nigelhernandez]

I came across an article on a website I frequently visit, asexuality.org (not really article but someone's post). They were talking about why you shouldn't kill yourself. I didn't agree with any reasons but was wondering what you think of it.

Why you shouldn't commit suicide... if you had ever considered..

I just wrote this as a reply to a topic in another forum (Asexual Musings & Rants - my thread Finally found happiness at 25) - and thought Id share in a more expansive post. The poster essentially argued that since we have a right to life, we should have a right to death (a libertarian belief...

www.asexuality.org

 

[HelensNepenthe]

I've skimmed through their post. The only point they seem to have made is in their initial first paragraph. The rest is just a bunch of endless word vomit. If I'm wrong, I'll give the post a fair read.

By inherently having someone who wants to terminate their life continue to serve society or continue living through their family, you're reducing them to an object. They become a cog in the social machine and that is denying them their intrinsic dignity.

 

[nigelhernandez]

I've skimmed through their post. The only point they seem to have made is in their initial first paragraph. The rest is just a bunch of endless word vomit. If I'm wrong, I'll give the post a fair read.

By inherently having someone who wants to terminate their life continue to serve society or continue living through their family, you're reducing them to an object. They become a cog in the social machine and that is denying them their intrinsic dignity.

I agree but what do you mean by word vomit?
You know what's funny about people like these is that they don't seem to care about your life in any other aspect, they just spout out "suicide is selfish/bad". I've asked a pro-lifer who tried to use the guilt trip "What about homeless people/people in prison"?

I honestly don't know why society rages hard against suicide. It's just one life. People are actually more offended by suicide than murder.

 

[ceelo]

I agree but what do you mean by word vomit?
You know what's funny about people like these is that they don't seem to care about your life in any other aspect, they just spout out "suicide is selfish/bad". I've asked a pro-lifer who tried to use the guilt trip "What about homeless people/people in prison"?

I honestly don't know why society rages hard against suicide. It's just one life. People are actually more offended by suicide than murder.

verbosity, saying lots but not saying anything.

Usually every argument comes down to selfishness, because most people are dense and can't see that its far more immorally selfish to expect someone in agony to continue living just for your benefit and i'#d argue far worse than the selfishness of opting out which causes the loved ones pain, no one wins with suicide really. The post is ignorant and self righteous horsecock, no one suicides on a whim, for everyone its a long drawn out process of considerations and conditioning, the best book on this for my mind is professor thomas joiners "why people die of suicide"

 

[HelensNepenthe]

I agree but what do you mean by word vomit?

Take into account I've skimmed through their post. It felt a little rant-y with the lack of structure. Perhaps it would have been better to say 'diarrhea of the mouth' instead of 'word vomit' -- a lot of words without much thinking.

 

[Evermore]

I stopped reading once they said "Simply giving up, when so many people would love to be in your shoes, is really a seflish action." Someone said something along those lines to me recently and it just really pissed me off. Similar to the person who wrote that artical they had once been suicidal and no longer are , because of that they think everyone can turn their life around.

 

[deadpixels]

The post seems to be a reply to a prior post defending the right to suicide that may have used some poor argumentation.

In the first paragraph, it's said that suicide is selfish based on the emotional damage caused to the family. While it may be true to some extend, think about someone living with the only purpose of satisfying his/her family's desire to maintain his/her life. Being alive just to prevent emotional pain in the others can't be the reason for someone to live, this is a selfish imposition from the family as well.

Then it's argued that the "regular 'slings and arrows' of life's fortunes & misfortunes" can't be a good reason for suicide, but it shows a limited view on suicide. Most of the time we have an entire life of suffering, and the apparently simple misfortunes only trigger what has been accumulating through a long time. It's like a mechanical structure holding more and more weight through the years up to the point where it's on the imminent collapse and something as light as a feather can make it all fall apart.

Then the poster shows a bit of ignorance on several matters , like assuming that depression is the only mental condition that may lead to suicide, comparing physical hardships to mental health issues, assuming that it's impossible for a mentally healthy person to want to suicide, assuming that everybody in the world gives the same value to life, etc.

 

[ssaaahmo]

hey, asexual here. some people wouldn't like to be in my shoes because i'm fucked-up and dark and a terrible person. i feel like a monster and no one would want to be me if they knew the shit that happens in my mind. for some people life never gets better. i can say this for myself as it's true. I DON"T OWE ANYONE ANYTHING. NOT ONE FUCKING THING. IT"S SELFISH OF THEM TO WANT ME TO STAY ALIVE FOR THEIR SAKE WHEN THEY KNOW EVERY DAY IS SUFFERING. I never asked to be born so i have a right to die.

 

[Tintypographer]

Honestly and this is my personal opinion. People inherently value other people's lives because they can't have them or have control over them. Nothing frustrates my strongly conservative friends more than when I simply state that I don't care about whatever it is they are talking about and no amount of discussion will change that. I won't care now or in the future.

Same thing with life. No one would ever stop you or pass a law to halt you from giving away everything you own. Giving away goods is a net transfer. But taking your life yourself takes the transfer and control away from those around us. People dislike that a lot. They make it equivalent to murder because it is the only way they can rationalize the act. Since they can't control you taking your own life any more than they cant control someone committing murder (with obvious limitations) they equate them. No where else is there such a zero sum game for others. Giving away all of your possessions transfers something. Quitting a job transfers something. There are positives and negatives but someone gains in these transfers and in some cases someone loses. In death it's zero sum.

I think that concept (in suicide only as i do not condone murder) being taken by a person frustrates a lot of people. They become pro life because the philosophy of pro death is impossible to comprehend. It would be like being pro exterminating species (I'm on the fence about fire ants) peoples grasp of philosophy simply can't handle the idea

So the result is a mental block and an faith that suicide is bad for all involved.


That's all just my opinion though.
Honestly and this is my personal opinion. People inherently value other people's lives because they can't have them or have control over them. Nothing frustrates my strongly conservative friends more than when I simply state that I don't care about whatever it is they are talking about and no amount of discussion will change that. I won't care now or in the future.

Same thing with life. No one would ever stop you or pass a law to halt you from giving away everything you own. Giving away goods is a net transfer. But taking your life yourself takes the transfer and control away from those around us. People dislike that a lot. They make it equivalent to murder because it is the only way they can rationalize the act. Since they can't control you taking your own life any more than they cant control someone committing murder (with obvious limitations) they equate them. No where else is there such a zero sum game for others. Giving away all of your possessions transfers something. Quitting a job transfers something. There are positives and negatives but someone gains in these transfers and in some cases someone loses. In death it's zero sum.

I think that concept (in suicide only as i do not condone murder) being taken by a person frustrates a lot of people. They become pro life because the philosophy of pro death is impossible to comprehend. It would be like being pro exterminating species (I'm on the fence about fire ants) peoples grasp of philosophy simply can't handle the idea

So the result is a mental block and an faith that suicide is bad for all involved.


That's all just my opinion though.

 

[Kumachan]

Boring, poorly written word salad

suicide is selfish blah blah blah

 

[Deleted member 1465]

Lost count of the number of word salady, intellectually lazy, trite, condescending piles of drivel I've read written by ignorant, self important tossers. Oh look, is this another?

 

[Tintypographer]

Lost count of the number of word salady, intellectually lazy, trite, condescending piles of drivel I've read written by ignorant, self important tossers. Oh look, is this another?

Mine was probably a salad too!!

 

[Deleted member 1465]

Mine was probably a salad too!!

My posts can be awful if I'm on the tablet as my autocorrect loves to play tricks on me. Just to be clear though I was referring to condescending articles, not anyone's posts here!