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Davey36000

Davey36000

Experienced
Jun 12, 2023
262
I'm quoting this from a user on reddit, what do you guys think?

There's an old arabic saying, if you want to die, throw yourself in the ocean and you'll find yourself fighting to survive.

You dont want to kill yourself, you want to kill something inside you.
 
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Life Is My Coffin

Life Is My Coffin

One final action ⚰️⚰️⚰️
Oct 13, 2023
243
The reason why you'd be fighting a survive is because that's literally a subconscious effort that your body will force you to do the moment it realizes that it's entering a drowning state
 
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abchia

abchia

Student
Aug 28, 2023
130
Maybe it's just a saying, but how would one succeed in kill something inside them without killing themselves?
 
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Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
8,167
I expect it's true in terms of flooding your system with adrenaline. Short-term, it may jolt someone into being grateful they are no longer in that situation anymore. Maybe even give them a new perspective on life if they did actually nearly drown. Maybe, they suddenly realise what they could miss out on.

As for curing what's making that person suicidal to begin with. I doubt it. What problems can be solved by nearly drowning? Perhaps real pain and panic may put other problems into perspective but ultimately, life goes on. What was it about life that the person hated so much? Why would that have changed after their near death experience? If it's illness, nearly drowning will probably only make that illness worse. If it's situational, financial, a suicide attempt likely won't go down too well with employers and loved ones. I suppose though, it could go the other way and people start to give them more attention and support.

That all said, there is that weird statistic that 9 out of 10 of suicide survivors will not die by suicide in the future. So, maybe there is something in it. Perhaps the act of attempting shakes something up in them. Of course, we don't know whether they lived out the rest of their lives in misery... I find that statistic hard to believe too.

 
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the_last_race

Member
Sep 9, 2023
45
Well, yes. Majority of people would rather kill the things that make them suicidal, but most of the time it's impossible - hence the suicide. So, while this proverb has something in it - it doesn't say anything that profound.
 
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alltoomuch2

alltoomuch2

Student
Feb 10, 2024
198
I expect it's true in terms of flooding your system with adrenaline. Short-term, it may jolt someone into being grateful they are no longer in that situation anymore. Maybe even give them a new perspective on life if they did actually nearly drown. Maybe, they suddenly realise what they could miss out on.

As for curing what's making that person suicidal to begin with. I doubt it. What problems can be solved by nearly drowning? Perhaps real pain and panic may put other problems into perspective but ultimately, life goes on. What was it about life that the person hated so much? Why would that have changed after their near death experience? If it's illness, nearly drowning will probably only make that illness worse. If it's situational, financial, a suicide attempt likely won't go down too well with employers and loved ones. I suppose though, it could go the other way and people start to give them more attention and support.

That all said, there is that weird statistic that 9 out of 10 of suicide survivors will not die by suicide in the future. So, maybe there is something in it. Perhaps the act of attempting shakes something up in them. Of course, we don't know whether they lived out the rest of their lives in misery... I find that statistic hard to believe too.

or maybe it gets them the help that they needed. (but not in the uk, obviously).
 
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Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
8,167
or maybe it gets them the help that they needed. (but not in the uk, obviously).

Not in the UK. Lol. That's probably sadly true. I don't know really. I haven't tested out our 'services' that much.
 
alltoomuch2

alltoomuch2

Student
Feb 10, 2024
198
Not in the UK. Lol. That's probably sadly true. I don't know really. I haven't tested out our 'services' that much.
They do their best but months and months waiting list for any services, longer if you need a psychiatrist. Very unlikely to get sectioned whatever you do because there are no beds. Attempt ctb and you're likely to be patched up physically and thrown back in the sea. Once you're in the system it's a bit better but they're still struggling with no funds, no staff.
 
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Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
8,167
They do their best but months and months waiting list for any services, longer if you need a psychiatrist. Very unlikely to get sectioned whatever you do because there are no beds. Attempt ctb and you're likely to be patched up physically and thrown back in the sea. Once you're in the system it's a bit better but they're still struggling with no funds, no staff.

Do you think the Labour government will do any better? To be honest, I don't see how they can do much if there isn't the money. Feels like we're all going to hell in a handcart!
 
astr4

astr4

memento mori
Mar 27, 2019
182
it's a nice sentiment i guess but ultimately the point is moot if death is the only thing that will destroy what i hate within myself anyways.
 
sos

sos

Student
Jul 22, 2024
120
almost the same as when people say "if you wanted to die; you would've ended it, but you didn't"

there's a survival instinct most of the people are just not aware about

it used to drive me insane when i couldn't catch the bus bc i wasn't aware of such a thing but then i became aware of the existence of SI

Maybe it's just a saying, but how would one succeed in kill something inside them without killing themselves?
do drugs and/or drink alcohol for the rest of your life

anything that kills the thoughts/feelings that you're struggling with

i mean it might kill you after all but yeah. . .
 
sugarb

sugarb

long time sunshine
Jun 14, 2024
230
Maybe it's just a saying, but how would one succeed in kill something inside them without killing themselves?
There's drowning one's demons in alcohol as others have said 🤷 or if you want to be dorky about it- surgery 😋
I expect it's true in terms of flooding your system with adrenaline. Short-term, it may jolt someone into being grateful they are no longer in that situation anymore. Maybe even give them a new perspective on life if they did actually nearly drown. Maybe, they suddenly realise what they could miss out on.

As for curing what's making that person suicidal to begin with. I doubt it. What problems can be solved by nearly drowning? Perhaps real pain and panic may put other problems into perspective but ultimately, life goes on. What was it about life that the person hated so much? Why would that have changed after their near death experience? If it's illness, nearly drowning will probably only make that illness worse. If it's situational, financial, a suicide attempt likely won't go down too well with employers and loved ones. I suppose though, it could go the other way and people start to give them more attention and support.

That all said, there is that weird statistic that 9 out of 10 of suicide survivors will not die by suicide in the future. So, maybe there is something in it. Perhaps the act of attempting shakes something up in them. Of course, we don't know whether they lived out the rest of their lives in misery... I find that statistic hard to believe too.

My guess: The "seriousness" of attempts and attempters isn't accounted for in these statistics, as it's hard to quantify. As such, they're extremely skewed.

Like, many people will attempt literally just because they're having a bad moment and in that hour or day or week they have nothing to live for.

As per your source- "The relationship between suicide attempts and completions is a complex one."

One critical statistic-

"An international review of psychological autopsy studies found that approximately 40% of those dying by suicide had previously attempted (Cavanagh 2003). The proportion was lower (25-33%) among studies of youth suicide in the U.S. (Brent 1993, Shaffer 1996). A history of previous attempts is lower among those dying by firearm suicide and higher among those dying by overdose (NVISS data)."

My guess? Drug overdosers are generally more impulsive.
I actually have an example of this- an online friend of mine tried to OD because her then boyfriend was ignoring her. Her attempt was completely spur of the moment- took a bunch of random pills and called a friend who convinced her to call 9/11 before she passed out, which is how she survived. I don't know that much about her personal life or trauma or etc but she's very BPD and prone to violent mood swings. She's pretty happy with her life most of the time.

Someone who wants to die for a protracted amount of time and plans it out thoroughly is a whole other deal. They're patient and methodical. I'm one of them. When I eventually CTB, it'll have been after a year or more of planning and waiting.

Additionally-

"5% to 11% of hospital-treated attempters do go on to complete suicide, a far higher proportion than among the general public where annual suicide rates are about 1 in 10,000."

"Approximately 50% of all people who die by suicide have previously self-harmed. One in 25 patients presenting to the hospital for self-harm will complete suicide in the next 5 years."

I'd also note that this statistic only includes attempts that resulted in hospitalization or were otherwise known to the researchers. All the people who tried OD, poison, hypothermia, or jumping and survived without mentioning it or who lied and said it wasn't suicide aren't counted.

So the statistic is really "9/10 people who either admitted to attempting or couldn't plausibly deny it and were admitted to a hospital did not go on to CTB".
 
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P

Praestat_Mori

Mori praestat, quam haec pati!
May 21, 2023
10,089
Is that a pre-islamic proverb or from/after Islam became the major belief in the region?

Well, whatever it is that drives us to suicide, dying by drowning in the sea is certainly not a pleasant experience - taking into account that the Arabian seas are not cold - you won't become unconscious in warm water for example.
 
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R

randal_bond

Me encantaria practicar ES con Hispanohablantes.
Oct 23, 2018
275
It's good to talk....to be philosophical, right? LOL
Survival instinct has nothing to do with desire/decision to die. Not all folk sayings are wise.
 
alltoomuch2

alltoomuch2

Student
Feb 10, 2024
198
Do you think the Labour government will do any better? To be honest, I don't see how they can do much if there isn't the money. Feels like we're all going to hell in a handcart!
tbh I don't know. I didn't vote for them but they seem to be trying to make a difference, and apart from that advisor of theirs, don't seem to be so prejudiced against people struggling with their mental health. Agreed though, there's no money for anything. I think they have to prioritise this. They seem to have realised better than the last lot, that a lot of people aren't working because they're too unwell and waiting months for treatment and help.
 
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