Was Jesus Christ divine (sent from God) or a philosopher ahead of his time?

[lacrimosa]

What do you think?

Please note: I am talking about the JC from Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John while ignoring the other gospels as they are opinionated, have controversial origins, and don't clearly reflect JC's philosophy as it is told in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John's gospels.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

He was just a dude going around, spreading his philosophy all over the place. Sometimes I wonder if he was just a cult leader.

(No offence to any Christians, btw. This isn't meant to be read as a jab at your religion, it's just something that crosses my mind every once in a while whenever someone brings JC up)

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

He was a Jewish apocalypsist. Bart Ehrman has some fantastic content about Jesus, would highly recommend.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Clearly he was both. Or maybe he's just a time traveler. Or maybe he's also that and an alien.

 

[untothedepths]

I think he was completely fictional. A made up messiah for Christians to believe in.

 

[lamargue]

he was clearly a genius who understood morality greater than anyone at the time. you could call him divine for his recognition of the transcendental nature of proto-Christian ethics

 

[yellowjester]

Ahead of his time, but not far ahead. His teaching was above average at best, and full of impurities. Doesn't strike me as very special, or divine, to be honest, although I still respect him as a religious figure.

All the gospels have controversial origins, by the way. They were written long after Jesus died by people who neither met him nor made much of an effort to stay true to his words.

 

[Kavka]

I think he was completely fictional. A made up messiah for Christians to believe in.

I think the consensus among historians is that Jesus of Nazareth was a historical figure who existed in the 1st century CE. Some events are probably made up (e.g. resurrection), but there are also events that are most likely true because they're described by multiple religious and non-religious (e.g. Romans) sources and would be too embarrassing to (early) Christians to make up such as the baptism of Jesus and his crucifixion.

 

[3/4Dead]

I think the consensus among historians is that Jesus of Nazareth was a historical figure who existed in the 1st century CE. Some events are probably made up (e.g. resurrection), but there are also events that are most likely true because they're described by multiple religious and non-religious (e.g. Romans) sources and would be too embarrassing to (early) Christians to make up such as the baptism of Jesus and his crucifixion.

This is correct. While not possible to prove with 100% certainty that we're (we meaning Christians and other non-theistic sources) all talking about the same guy Jesus had a relatively common name for his time (there's a few Jesus' in the bible actually, we meet one during the passion in one account), and was very common in almost every other way, it's very possible that this could've just been any guy traveling and talking about philosophies he believed in and others A) followed him all cultish style and thus became a religious figure B) were just really down with what he was saying, wrote about it, and as time went on he became "Jesus the Christ" as we know him C) was not super popular at the time, but by word of mouth became a religious figure later down the line.

It is also possible that the accounts are of a few different men (one guy who was big on social justice, one guy who people thought was god, one guy who got crucified etc. etc.) combined with the falsified information, thus coming together to create the Christian Jesus.

Anyway,

he could've be both. Could be a divine philosopher, simply divine, or simply a philosopher. No way to call it imo *shrug*

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

Ahead of his time, but not far ahead. His teaching was above average at best, and full of impurities. Doesn't strike me as very special, or divine, to be honest, although I still respect him as a religious figure.

All the gospels have controversial origins, by the way. They were written long after Jesus died by people who neither met him nor made much of an effort to stay true to his words.

Indeed; let us not forget that "Love your neighbour" comes with "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." (Matthew 10:34)

 

[Jarni]

Indeed; let us not forget that "Love your neighbour" comes with "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." (Matthew 10:34)

It reminded me of a very interesting film "The Student" (2016) by the famous Russian director Kirill Serebrennikov, where this quote was played out perfectly.

Here is this fragment of the text of the film (translated):

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**— ... The Church needs people like you.**

**— You have no idea what kind of person I am.**

**— I know. I can see! You are one of those who live for faith.**

**— I don't live for faith; I'll die for it.**

**— Those are golden words. But it's not necessary to die right away. There are many ways to serve God.**

**— Well, you know that's not true. You've got it easy, haven't you? Do you know that other religions laugh at us because of this? That in other religions there are warriors of faith, suicides, martyrs who give their lives for their beliefs. No Christian does anything like that today. And it's all because you don't read the Bible. You've fashioned yourself a convenient God who forgives everything, and you've settled for that. But the Lord says, 'Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. A man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' And also! 'But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.' So, it's not about living for faith. The Lord has a different plan for us when He says, 'I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!'**

**— Well, in this, you're absolutely right, Venya! And that's exactly why you are the person we need.**

**— For what?**

**— For what? Well... I would like you to start by reading this pamphlet.**

**— I don't need pamphlets; I have the Bible, and it is a sword that cuts through people. Some endure; others fall.**

**— Exactly! Come, let's talk, listen to a sermon...**

**— A sermon!?**

**— Yes.**

**— Well, if you're going to preach, do it in Chechnya or Afghanistan.**

**— Venya... Venya, you'll be killed on the first day.**

**— That's not important. 'Whoever loses their life for my sake will save it.'**

**— And how many souls have you reached this way? Two? Three? But there are thousands of us. Understand? Millions.**

**— That doesn't count, and souls aren't currency. In heaven, there will be more rejoicing over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent."

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