Discussion Vegans

[indica]

Why?

 

[Graham]

Why?

 

[indica]

I'm curious what you mean by "other." @Someone123

 

[Oblivion Access]

Better yet, why not Vegan? What reasons are there for giving money to people who genetically alter, imprison, rape and slaughter animals? What excuses are there for eating literal corpses and secretions of other species, when it is proven that virtually anybody can thrive on a plant based diet? If you look deeply enough, you will find there really is no ACTUAL argument against veganism, just escaping responsibility. Why y'all not vegan yet?

 

[freedompass]

Better yet, why not Vegan? What reasons are there for giving money to people who genetically alter, imprison, rape and slaughter animals? What excuses are there for eating literal corpses and secretions of other species, when it is proven that virtually anybody can thrive on a plant based diet? If you look deeply enough, you will find there really is no ACTUAL argument against veganism, just escaping responsibility. Why y'all not vegan yet?

I like what you did there haha. Seriously, effectively asking someone to justify their choice to uh, exercise compassion and respect for non human species in making their food choices 'why would you even do that?' needs to not be a thing. It's on you omnivores to justify YOURselves. Just saying.

 

[Oblivion Access]

I like what you did there haha. Seriously, effectively asking someone to justify their choice to uh, exercise compassion and respect for non human species in making their food choices 'why would you even do that?' needs to not be a thing. It's on you omnivores to justify YOURselves. Just saying.

https://i.redd.it/z46pv74p50491.png

 

[chocolatebar]

I think about it in a similar way to public executions, torture and other things in the middle ages. They were normalized, but today we think about it as horrific things and can't imagine how people would pass by casually.

I can easily see people in the future thinking the same about us.

That assuming the society won't move backwards instead...

when it is proven that virtually anybody can thrive on a plant based diet?

I'd just like to point out one small detail. Don't get me wrong, here. I'm vegan too and I condemn any kind of animal abuse.

The point is that a fully plant-based diet requires an industry to provide people with dietary supplements and it's not yet possible for most of the world (i'm talking about the poorer countries with little to no industrial development).

However, a vegetarian diet is practicable for almost everyone in this present moment in history.

As frustrating as it sounds, we're limited by the time we live in...

But in the end, so few people actually join the movement that the supplement industry can work under full capacity...

 

[indica]

i noticed you're vegetarian and want to become vegan @settheory do you think you will be able to

 

[settheory]

Would go fully vegan if my parents let me cook for myself, but they still don't even tho i'm an adult. Had to endure a lot of bullying and threats from parents, especially mother, just because i refused to eat meat. Now they don't bully me for that, and i hope that stays so. But i try to use as much opportunities not to consume animal products as i can.
@indica i probably will be if i become financially independent enough, if i live to that moment. But hopefully i come up with a way to do that even before that.
PS:

I think about it in a similar way to public executions, torture and other things in the middle ages. They were normalized, but today we think about it as horrific things and can't imagine how people would pass by casually.

I can easily see people in the future thinking the same about us.

That assuming the society won't move backwards instead...


I'd just like to point out one small detail. Don't get me wrong, here. I'm vegan too and I condemn any kind of animal abuse.

The point is that a fully plant-based diet requires an industry to provide people with dietary supplements and it's not yet possible for most of the world (i'm talking about the poorer countries with little to no industrial development).

However, a vegetarian diet is practicable for almost everyone in this present moment in history.

As frustrating as it sounds, we're limited by the time we live in...

But in the end, so few people actually join the movement that the supplement industry can work under full capacity...

I disagree with some of this. B12 alone is a sufficient supplement for almost all vegans. The combinations of non-animal products one can have to have a reasonably nutritious vegan diet isn't anything fancy or exotic. Plus, westerners might sometimes exxagerate somewhat how poor the rest of the world is and how unavailable some or others products are.

 

[stygal]

I used to be fully vegan for 8 years.

But I had a very health-threatening eating disorder and started with very easily digestible food that included some milkproducts/proteins.

Now that I'm fully healed I kinda still stuck with eating butter and chocolate some days.

I understand all the arguments against it and it makes sense to cut everything out. But I kinda still enjoy what is convenient and tasty to me.

Definitely being 80-90 % vegan each day and I wish everyone was.

 

[Fragile]

I've been a vegetarian for over 13 years now, in some of those years I was a vegan, but I grew out of that phase. Human beings are omnivorous and I hate being an annoying person who preaches what others should do with their lives.

Besides, It's very hard to have a purely vegan diet in my country, vegan products are prohibitively expensive. Not to mention that cheese is literally shoved into every food, as an example, I bet you haven't seen a place where hot chocolate beverages are traditionally served with fresh cheese. It's inescapable, but I like it being this way and I'm embracing my culture as opposed to a first world aesthetic trend such as veganism.

I'm fine with being a vegetarian for the rest of my life.

 

[the_town_manager]

Not vegan, though I think factory farming is obviously horrific and indefensible. I justify it to myself by saying that my going vegan would most likely not actually save a single animal from being bred and killed. I don't have any proof of that, but I feel that's how it must logically be. If I go vegan today, will the market really notice that I'm gone? It's hard to believe that it could be that sensitive to fluctuations in demand. Especially considering how much overproduction and food wastage the system already tolerates. So basically I'd give up something I enjoy purely to be more ethically pure. That's fine of course, but not something I find terribly motivating.

I always tend to view myself as outside of society. Sure, I could be another drop in the bucket on the right side of history, and eventually if enough people make the same decision, it would have an effect. But since I have no faith in future anyway, and there's no immediate practical difference that my decision would make, it seems to me that it simply doesn't matter what I do. Constructing a better future world is for those that are gonna be a part of that future or desire for there to be any kind of a future at all. I just don't have the motivation to deal with any drop-in-the-bucket shit.

 

[9BBN]

I wish I was vegan. Instead of promoting veganism, I think a more realistic approach to reducing animal suffering is to promote research into alternative meat and lobby against factory farming.

 

[waitingforrest]

See this little fella? He is too cool to be eaten.

 

[dtjb]

I'm not vegan but have been reducing my meat consumption for personal and environmental reasons. Don't see myself ever going fully vegan since I love eggs and cheese, but I do see my diet changing a lot in the upcoming months to accommodate much less meat intake.

 

[Tortured Existence]

 

[Hirokami]

I plan on going at least vegetarian next month if I can help it. I eat very little meat, anyhow, so it wouldn't make that much of a difference. I'd be doing it mainly for health reasons as too much meat (esp. red) tends to upset my stomach. As for veganism, maybe; I just need to find a decent yogurt substitute lol.

 

[Superdeterminist]

The reason is to minimise suffering as much as I can. By funding animal farming I know that I would be in some way responsible for the torture of animals.

But the big picture is more complex than that. I believe totally in determinism in the universe. One day I just became convinced of veganism and I can't account for that. Why on that day, why no earlier or later, and why at all... It's sad really.

 

[settheory]

By the way i highly recommend CosmicSkeptic's videos on veganism.

https://m.youtube.com/c/CosmicSkeptic/videos

 

[DynamicDepression]

Sadly, my parents are meat fanatics and we have meat nearly every day. I can't afford to buy my own food and they would rather have me starve than buy vegan for me. At the very least, my country has relatively good living standards for livestock but it's still disgusting.

 

[GentleJerk]

Not everyone will find it feasible to go full vegan, but reducing one's consumption of animal products wherever reasonable is the way.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

For me it is a fact that food tastes a lot better if something had to suffer for it to be presented to me.

I kind of like the taste of fake meat though but sometimes I get it and mix it together with real meat like in a burger.

 

[Shu]

 

[odradek]

I'm not vegan but they do have a point. Sadly I think our society is built on many shades of cognitive dissonance and we will always be destructive to our bitter end because of this. Factory farming, for example, is reprehensible but to get any product (vegan or otherwise) to your table in our current society will invariably generate some kind of damage. The fossil fuel industry destroys ecosystems. The scale of suffering produced by our civilization is much higher and at times incomprehensible, to me at least.

I do believe all animals experience suffering and have a capacity in some way to realize that suffering, if that makes sense. So causing them pain outside of self defense is wrong. I still think vegans are right but the scale of the problem is, to me, much bigger and ultimately unsolvable. There is too much shit going on.

I get overwhelmed thinking about the tangled problems of the world and what it would actually take to unravel it all. It really drives me to existential nihilism. I suppose this is how I justify not being vegan despite agreeing with the principle. I'm losing myself in this depression and it's increasingly difficult to care anymore. No justification really I suppose but here we are.

 

[Conker]

Both sides are correct to a degree, balance is ultimately the key. Elderly do not need to eat meat everyday.

Most pork & shellfish factories should've been shut down decades ago.
New Zealand wasn't meant to produce such absurd amounts of dairy.

FROM ENTROPY TO DUMBOTRY, AND BEYOND INTO OBLIVION

HOW THE GAP BETWEEN MINIMAL COGNITION TO FATHOM CRITICAL ISSUES & THE EVER DEEPENING SEVERITY OF THE ISSUES IS ALSO EXPONENTIALLY WIDENING UNTO A LOOP OF NO RETURN -Under these conditions, Opt…

deephighlands.wordpress.com

 

[Manaaja]

For me it is a fact that food tastes a lot better if something had to suffer for it to be presented to me.

I kind of like the taste of fake meat though but sometimes I get it and mix it together with real meat like in a burger.

Odd question, but is your family rich? The way you said "presented" made me think of the mangas where some nobles sit at a table while servants bring them food.

As for me, I was a pesco-ovo-lactovegetarian. Right now I don't know what I am. I tried eating meat and it was like eating something inedible, I guess my body doesn't consider meat food anymore, but at the same time, I want to eat a nice meat burger.

I've actually heard that if someone is a vegan for a long time and then eats meat it can be literally dangerous. They need to start eating meet slowly.

Sigh, I really wish people could live by eating whatever they want or by not eating anything. Like in Steven's Universe. Amethyst eats all kinds of things because she loves eating, Pearl hates eating and can live just finely without ever putting anything in her mouth for thousands of years.

 

[Lost in a Dream]

I'm not currently vegan, but would like to be, so I voted for the second option. The only problem is, I've gotten so addicted to egg and cheese sandwiches on toast, that it's become my kryptonite. Morals and ethics aside, eating vegan would just be better for my health in general.

Sigh, I really wish people could live by eating whatever they want or by not eating anything. Like in Steven's Universe. Amethyst eats all kinds of things because she loves eating, Pearl hates eating and can live just finely without ever putting anything in her mouth for thousands of years.

That would be awesome, wouldn't it? If eating was entirely optional, then I would probably only ever eat something once in a blue moon. It sucks that the real world doesn't work like that.

 

[Manaaja]

I'm not currently vegan, but would like to be, so I voted for the second option. The only problem is, I've gotten so addicted to egg and cheese sandwiches on toast, that it's become my kryptonite. Morals and ethics aside, eating vegan would just be better for my health in general.



That would be awesome, wouldn't it? If eating was entirely optional, then I would probably only ever eat something once in a blue moon. It sucks that the real world doesn't work like that.

Cheese is so good. I should get mozzarella today, haven't eaten it in a long time.

I don't know which is the healthiest way to eat. I think it might depend on the person. Eat what makes you feel better, not what others tell you. Only you know you. If you feel better on some diet, do it. If you feel that you need to add or change it somehow, do it.

Yeah. I need a realer world. Or a less real world. I hate all this min-maxing needed in here.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Odd question, but is your family rich? The way you said "presented" made me think of the mangas where some nobles sit at a table while servants bring them food.

As for me, I was a pesco-ovo-lactovegetarian. Right now I don't know what I am. I tried eating meat and it was like eating something inedible, I guess my body doesn't consider meat food anymore, but at the same time, I want to eat a nice meat burger.

I've actually heard that if someone is a vegan for a long time and then eats meat it can be literally dangerous. They need to start eating meet slowly.

My family has never actually been that rich, though maybe more so than the worldwide average due to living in the Silicon Valley, but it's possible that my ancestors enjoyed some wealth that was taken away from them causing me to be genetically predisposed towards it. This tendency could explain why I prefer takeout or restaurant food than any food I've attempted to make for myself even if I were to do it in the exact same way. Could also be a primal instinct to derive satisfaction from the food being killed dating back to Hunter-gatherer times. I'm far too weak to overcome these urges but also too lazy to do the hunting myself beyond heading to some business and scanning a credit card to make the food come out.

One of my friends who is vegetarian but not vegan, was duped into thinking he had eaten meat which caused him to feel nauseous and sick but it turned out the thing he had eaten contained no meat at all so he literally had to have placebo'd himself to feel those signs. He always said bacon smelled really nice though and wishes he could have had it.

 

[Lebensunwertes]

Meat is a valuable source of micro nutrients and vitamins, it also has a good taste so I don't see a reason to give up on it. I try to buy meat from smaller sellers who raise the animals in a less industrialized, more humane fashion (it has an impact on the taste also), however it is simply not possible to completely avoid.

Better yet, why not Vegan? What reasons are there for giving money to people who genetically alter, imprison, rape and slaughter animals?

JFL