Method vecuronium bromide as single drug

[marcy2022]

While doing some research I've found that vecuronium bromide or pancuronium bromide or similar can be a quite good method. I've read online reports of people ctb from just one injection consisting a low dosage of 8mg. It's not easily accessible I know. Aside from that if one has 40mg/20ml or 60mg/30ml IV/IM solution, would it work with only vecuronium bromide by itself (if injected with a syringe)? Or maybe some oral sedatives like some benzos or something. One good thing about this is when using IM injection, it doesn't require too much medical knowledge at all or a lot of practice. If I'm not mistaken it's just like a insulin injection or like a vaccine. One thing I'm wondering though, vecuronium bromide paralysis which makes one unable to breathe or to do something about it, how painful would it be?

I know it's probably not necessary to add something else with this but what about going into a bathtub/pool and then injecting it? Drowning while paralyzed, may not sound all that peaceful but I think this might be one sure way of drowning. It suggests here https://www.healthline.com/health/how-long-does-it-take-to-drown#drowning-stages that drowning takes about 10-12 minutes.

"For the first several seconds after water is inhaled, the drowning person is in a state of fight-or-flight as they struggle to breathe."

This is one of the biggest problems with drowning as a viable method. I was thinking this fight or flight or SI stage can be overcome by using vecuronium bromide as this will effectively render one paralyzed and therefore even while unconscious SI probability won't be able to what it's supposed to cuz the muscles won't be working.
Then the rest of the stages should be relatively the similar as in being unable to breathe which happens from vecuronium bromide muscle paralysis as well as being underwater.
vecuronium bromide by itself should be enough for ctb however I'm thinking of drowning as an additional safety measure as if one won't work for whatever reasons, the other will.

 

[Willto]

How to get vecuronium bromide?

 

[Euthanza]

Can't say a lot but good luck

 

[marcy2022]

How to get vecuronium bromide?

My guess would be pharmacies or labs? Maybe from hospitals if one has access. It's just a glorified muscle relaxer, a strong one. Perhaps even in DN.

 

[Sunset Limited]

Bad idea. Neuromuscular blocker. Causes red muscle paralysis. It doesn't make you unconscious. It also paralyzes the diaphragm muscle. So you suffocate without doing anything. In animal euthanasia, it is used in combination with a strong sedative. 2 grams of thiopental + 150 mg of vecuronium bromide will do the job. This is the euthanasia protocol in countries like Canada, Spain.

 

[well2hell]

Vecuronium bromide being a paralytic, I highly suspect that it would make for a distressing death — you would not be able to breathe (i.e: suffocate) and your heart would stop beating while being conscious. This is why sodium thiopental is given as an anesthetic in lethal injections, prior to vecoronium bromide (which is followed by potassium chloride).

Note that in the last decade, some states in the US stopped using vecuronium bromide and potassium chloride. Instead, they only inject 5g of sodium thiopental IV.

As for acquiring either vecorunium bromide or sodium thiopental, I can only see this is as being extremely difficult.

 

[marcy2022]

Bad idea. Neuromuscular blocker. Causes red muscle paralysis. It doesn't make you unconscious. It also paralyzes the diaphragm muscle. So you suffocate without doing anything. In animal euthanasia, it is used in combination with a strong sedative. 2 grams of thiopental + 150 mg of vecuronium bromide will do the job. This is the euthanasia protocol in countries like Canada, Spain.

I think I've read about it somewhere online. While it may not be peaceful when compared to other methods which are considered peacceful such as ctb while being unconscious or sleeping but its effective right? As in like a it should work with a high certainty and low chance of survival or to be found before it does the job? I can't find accurate source to figure out somewhat of an accurate timeframe for it to work or in other words from time of administration to the time of ctb, how long does it take?

 

[Sunset Limited]

I think I've read about it somewhere online. While it may not be peaceful when compared to other methods which are considered peacceful such as ctb while being unconscious or sleeping but its effective right? As in like a it should work with a high certainty and low chance of survival or to be found before it does the job? I can't find accurate source to figure out somewhat of an accurate timeframe for it to work or in other words from time of administration to the time of ctb, how long does it take?

Yes it is effective and 100% lethal. The effect of the drug begins within 2 minutes and death within 10 minutes. I would not choose this method.

 

[marcy2022]

Bad idea. Neuromuscular blocker. Causes red muscle paralysis. It doesn't make you unconscious. It also paralyzes the diaphragm muscle. So you suffocate without doing anything. In animal euthanasia, it is used in combination with a strong sedative. 2 grams of thiopental + 150 mg of vecuronium bromide will do the job. This is the euthanasia protocol in countries like Canada, Spain.

Why 150mg? Just asking cuz lethal injection protocols suggest 20mg and if that fails another backup dosage of the same. I've read in another article somewhere suggesting triple dosage of 20mg which is 60mg total. If 0.1mg/kg or max 0.2mg/kg stops one's breathing altogether (someone with 80kg weight would need 8mg/16mg at max clinically advised dosage). If I'm not mistaken even at the low clinical dosage of 0.1/kg, without proper ventilation patients would suffocate and eventually die. I somewhat understand the 20mg in lethal injection protocol as it's a standard number which should work for most people. Why 150mg or the 60mg (as suggested in another article found in my research). The person gets paralyzed and being unable to breathe eventually they die regardless. Why the extreme high dosage?
I've managed to acquire 60mg of the stuff. If it's gives absolute certainty, I might consider it.
One thing that I like about this is once it's in the body, there's no going back. Chances of failure should be really low unless ofcourse found by someone within the required time.

Being paralyzed, no body or face movements, unable to scream or fight it, may not sound all that peaceful but I'm wondering how painful would it be?
Being paralyzed does it mean there'll be literally no sound whatsoever? As in unable to gasp for or seizure? Basically no movement or no sounds for anyone to attract unwanted attention?

 

[Sunset Limited]

Why 150mg? Just asking cuz lethal injection protocols suggest 20mg and if that fails another backup dosage of the same. I've read in another article somewhere suggesting triple dosage of 20mg which is 60mg total. If 0.1mg/kg or max 0.2mg/kg stops one's breathing altogether (someone with 80kg weight would need 8mg/16mg at max clinically advised dosage). If I'm not mistaken even at the low clinical dosage of 0.1/kg, without proper ventilation patients would suffocate and eventually die. I somewhat understand the 20mg in lethal injection protocol as it's a standard number which should work for most people. Why 150mg or the 60mg (as suggested in another article found in my research). The person gets paralyzed and being unable to breathe eventually they die regardless. Why the extreme high dosage?
I've managed to acquire 60mg of the stuff. If it's gives absolute certainty, I might consider it.
One thing that I like about this is once it's in the body, there's no going back. Chances of failure should be really low unless ofcourse found by someone within the required time.

Being paralyzed, no body or face movements, unable to scream or fight it, may not sound all that peaceful but I'm wondering how painful would it be?
Being paralyzed does it mean there'll be literally no sound whatsoever? As in unable to gasp for or seizure? Basically no movement or no sounds for anyone to attract unwanted attention?

Sorry my mistake 150mg rocuronium dose. Yes, if you inject yourself with vecuronium you will be completely still and silent. If someone doesn't manage your airway, you die. In fact, even ventilation with an ambu is sufficient for poisoning due to this drug, but if no one can find you, death is certain.

 

[marcy2022]

Sorry my mistake 150mg rocuronium dose. Yes, if you inject yourself with vecuronium you will be completely still and silent. If someone doesn't manage your airway, you die. In fact, even ventilation with an ambu is sufficient for poisoning due to this drug, but if no one can find you, death is certain.

20mg or 60mg is the correct dosage for vecuronium bromide?

Is it pain or panic or fear or a mixture of all that makes it a bad choice? If it's pain, is it physical or psychological? What I know about breathing is that it's not being unable to breathe that makes things uncomfortable but the buildup of CO2. If while being paralyzed and one can't let go of the CO2 build up, is it just discomfort or does the excessive CO2 actually make it physically painful?

 

[Sunset Limited]

Yes CO2 build up.

 

[marcy2022]

I was thinking how to make this work in a way so one can inject both thiopental and vecuronium bromide.

New York Times Article: Alternatives to Lethal Injection

The Death Penalty Information Center is a non-profit organization serving the media and the public with analysis and information about capital punishment.…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

"if the drugs were given in the wrong order, an inmate could still be conscious when the paralyzing drug and the potassium were injected. In that case, the paralyzing agent would cause a feeling of suffocation."

I'm wondering if vecuronium bromide can be given first (maybe in different hand) set with a tourniquet so one doesn't get paralyzed almost immediately and then the IV line mixed with thiopental solution on the other hand can be opened. Right away the tourniquet is released. would it work or precipitation resulting in no loss consciousness from thiopental or would it fail altogether? If vecuronium bromide is injected into a arm with tourniquet set tightly to prevent bloodflow, could paralyze the arm itself?

Precipitation of thiopental with muscle relaxants: a potential hazard

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"We feel a combination of a free-flowing drip as well as fluids running through it can minimize potential difficulties. When no fluids are being administered, then a generous saline flush may well suffice to clear cannula and vessel of thiopental, prior to administration of muscle relaxant."
This article mentions precipitation with thiopental and rocuronium. It also mention that they experimented with vecuronium bromide and the results where almost the same.

Log In

www.ismp.org

"If a precipitate is observed, the drug or solution should not be administered. The precipitate can lead to therapeutic failures due to drug inactivation, catheter occlusions, and varying levels of harm due to particulate embolization, ranging from thrombophlebitis to multi-organ failure or even death.3​ The consequences can be particularly severe in pediatric patients."
What worries me here is that drug inactivation.

Is there anyway to make this work with vecuronium bromide and thiopental? I haven't decided on one or the other but it would be really nice to be able to choose both, if possible somehow. Atm I'm leaning towards vecuronium bromide a little cuz of more reliability and its fast. And there are mixed information regarding thiopental (which also includes my previous failure). I was thinking maybe some benzos but its difficult to estimate how long it till take for said benzo to activate and vecuronium bromide having a fast onset time makes it even difficult cuz one might be paralyed long before bezno's supposed to kick in or might fall asleep before injecting vecuronium bromide. And there's still the matter of precipitation, whether it happens with benzos and vecuronium bromide or which benzos.

On another note should I take 60mg/30ml vecuronium bromide mixed with 0.9% Sodium Chloride IV solution injected fast into the arms, what are the chances of making noise? Such as vomiting, seizures, convulsion or gasping or maybe involuntary body movements (is that even possible while paralyzed?) or anything that makes noise?