Unpopular opinion about suicide

[voool]

I dont think it's right to kill yourself unless you have a chronic or terminal physical illness that causes pain or unbearable suffering.

This is mostly in line with the Dutch euthanasia laws or swiss laws.

I do however support your right to end your life and believe you should have access to nembutal for a painless exit.

I have schizophrenia and wanted to kill myself but ended up with a terrible physical condition that made me see that even with schizophrenia life is inherently valuable. But now due to this illness I have one week left until I exit.

 

[worldexploder]

Thanks for at least respecting our right to die. But I have a question - why should we even have to experience unimaginable suffering or a terminal illness before we have that option?

 

[MAIO]

I dont think it's right to kill yourself unless you have a chronic or terminal physical illness that causes pain or unbearable suffering.

This is mostly in line with the Dutch euthanasia laws or swiss laws.

I do however support your right to end your life and believe you should have access to nembutal for a painless exit.

I have schizophrenia and wanted to kill myself but ended up with a terrible physical condition that made me see that even with schizophrenia life is inherently valuable. But now due to this illness I have one week left until I exit.

Why do you believe you should have the right to force anyone who does not have a terminal or chronic physical illness to live? You don't get to decide when you die, I do! Why do you get to draw the line for how much and what kind of suffering is enough for other people to take their life? Why is mental suffering not as valid as physical suffering? If you decide life is not worth on the basis of philosophical reason with no illness why is that not a valid option? Why do you believe your judgment is superior for the individuals who takes their life that does not meet your arbitrary standards? Why would any mental illness render your judgment wrong in reguards to suicide? What makes life automatically worth it for evreyone besides specific scenarios?

 

[voool]

Thanks for at least respecting our right to die. But I have a question - why should we even have to experience unimaginable suffering or a terminal illness before we have that option?

I think life has inherent value. I'm not saying you shouldn't have that option but I think the only scenario where suicide is ethical is where someone is in protacted physical distress and or facing a terminal illness. I just think elective euthanasia could push people to commit suicide.

 

[readytodie]

Well, I think it's entirely up to the individual. If someone thinks his life is unbearable (for whatever! reason) he or she should have the right to end it.

Btw as far as Iam concerned mental illness can be terminal aswell for some.

 

[voool]

Well, I think it's entirely up to the individual. If someone thinks his life is unbearable (for whatever! reason) he or she should have the right to end it.

Anyone should have the right to end it. You're right. But I think assisted suicide should follow guidelines

 

[worldexploder]

I think life has inherent value. I'm not saying you shouldn't have that option but I think the only scenario where suicide is ethical is where someone is in protacted physical distress and or facing a terminal illness. I just think elective euthanasia could push people to commit suicide.

In my opinion, to value someone's life is to value their choice. According to the laws of nature we are not valuble. That's why life suffers and doesn't thrive for very long. Baby vs Ebola - Ebola wins everytime. That's how fucked up this whole life system is.

If a mother can elect to impose life then we should be able to elect to undo our imposition. Anything less is unethical. Suicide is only speeding up the inevitable. At least with euthanasia people wouldn't have to go out using painful methods.

 

[weedoge]

I think life has inherent value. I'm not saying you shouldn't have that option but I think the only scenario where suicide is ethical is where someone is in protacted physical distress and or facing a terminal illness. I just think elective euthanasia could push people to commit suicide.

Even if life were to have inherent value, which seems a little bit nonsensical to me since we are the conscious beings that choose what has value and what doesn't. Theoretically, in a very different world with different creatures that were wired differently, I'm sure they would choose to assign different levels of value to things differently than we humans do. Taking that into account I'd say that even when assigned, value has an unknown quantification. If you were able to plot on a graph at which points in life suicide were reasonable, then "the inherent value of life" would only affect that a fractional amount and people suffering enough would still be reasonable to end their lives.

Anyway, the question we generally attack here isn't whether it's reasonable to die but whether it's our right to choose to die whenever we like. Regardless of the moral implications (which I think are also made up, I have a moral code but suicide doesn't really come into it) everyone has the right to end their own life. There's no good reason other than now established societal norms, which are also dumb!

 

[AveryConure]

No matter if you believe someone should go ahead and end their lives I believe at the very least they should have access to methods that aren't painful or have to involve other people possibly becoming traumatized from seeing you commit, which is where N comes in, but I can also understand that unfortunately it would get abused if it got into the wrong hands if it was super easy, but that might be another argument I suppose.

 

[Schopenhauer]

I was going to write a long post about this, but I can't be bothered anymore. At least you support the right to make our own choices regarding suicide. To disagree with said choices is your right, of course.

 

[Trashcan]

We can't compare suffering. No one but the person living their life knows what's it like to be them. Even if they could hypothetically suffer more, they might be at their threshold. And the idea of them suffering even more might scare them, they might want to avoid that. If they're reaching their breaking point already, what tells them they can handle more suffering? It doesn't mean they're weak. If just means they're humans. Humans have thresholds to suffering, and that's just the nature of being alive. We're supposed to not like suffering. We're meant to avoid things that cause pain and suffering, and when it's your mind that's causing it due to a disorder, you can't get away from it.

People also have different perspectives about suffering. Some people who've had both cancer and depression say the depression is worse. Others say the cancer is worse. Some people who've once been homeless and later became depressed said that when they were homeless, at least they were happy. Others who've been in that situation will tell you that being homeless is far worse than depression. It really comes down to the individual. So not only can the only person knowing how much they're suffering is them, but each individual will have a different idea of how much suffering something causes. X might be nothing compared to Y for one person, but another will think Y is more tolerable than X.

 

[TiredHorse]

I suppose my logic follows the track of if we are to accept that mental pain is as real as physical pain, and mental disability is as real as physical disability, then choosing to escape mental disability/pain through ending our lives is as valid and ethical a choice as choosing to the same escape for physical disability/pain. I think escaping the physical pain of a physical, quantifiable condition is much more widely accepted than doing the same for a more ephemeral mental condition, but I hope that changes in time.

What measures one takes to "treat" their mental distress, prior to ending their life, is as flexible a scale as how heavily one invests in medical care for, say, pancreatic cancer or MS, and with far less assurance of a positive outcome, given the current state of mental health science.

I expect everyone here has their own standards for how much treatment they feel is the minimum before heading for the bus stop. I know that I have situations that would take ctb off the table for me. I do think it's interesting to hear views that conflict with my own. And I'm very glad that despite our views conflicting, Voool, you support everyone's right to make their own choice, unimpeded.

 

[Sundayafternoon]

I dont think it's right to kill yourself unless you have a chronic or terminal physical illness that causes pain or unbearable suffering.

This is mostly in line with the Dutch euthanasia laws or swiss laws.

I do however support your right to end your life and believe you should have access to nembutal for a painless exit.

I have schizophrenia and wanted to kill myself but ended up with a terrible physical condition that made me see that even with schizophrenia life is inherently valuable. But now due to this illness I have one week left until I exit.

Why is life itself not considered a chronic terminal illness? If nothing else, it is most certainly terminal. Being alive is the number one cause of death.

At anyrate, you have every right to your opinion. Thank you for being kind.
I'm sorry you are forced to cut short a life you find value in.

I wish you lots of peace.

 

[weedoge]

I was going to write a long post about this, but I can't be bothered anymore.

Feeling this a lot lately >< You know what you want to say but typing is effort and mind just drifts so fast when you start.

 

[voool]

We can't compare suffering. No one but the person living their life knows what's it like to be them. Even if they could hypothetically suffer more, they might be at their threshold. And the idea of them suffering even more might scare them, they might want to avoid that. If they're reaching their breaking point already, what tells them they can handle more suffering? It doesn't mean they're weak. If just means they're humans. Humans have thresholds to suffering, and that's just the nature of being alive. We're supposed to not like suffering. We're meant to avoid things that cause pain and suffering, and when it's your mind that's causing it due to a disorder, you can't get away from it.

People also have different perspectives about suffering. Some people who've had both cancer and depression say the depression is worse. Others say the cancer is worse. Some people who've once been homeless and later became depressed said that when they were homeless, at least they were happy. Others who've been in that situation will tell you that being homeless is far worse than depression. It really comes down to the individual. So not only can the only person knowing how much they're suffering is them, but each individual will have a different idea of how much suffering something causes. X might be nothing compared to Y for one person, but another will think Y is more tolerable than X.

Very true.

 

[humanity]

We can't compare suffering. No one but the person living their life knows what's it like to be them. Even if they could hypothetically suffer more, they might be at their threshold. And the idea of them suffering even more might scare them, they might want to avoid that. If they're reaching their breaking point already, what tells them they can handle more suffering? It doesn't mean they're weak. If just means they're humans. Humans have thresholds to suffering, and that's just the nature of being alive. We're supposed to not like suffering. We're meant to avoid things that cause pain and suffering, and when it's your mind that's causing it due to a disorder, you can't get away from it.

People also have different perspectives about suffering. Some people who've had both cancer and depression say the depression is worse. Others say the cancer is worse. Some people who've once been homeless and later became depressed said that when they were homeless, at least they were happy. Others who've been in that situation will tell you that being homeless is far worse than depression. It really comes down to the individual. So not only can the only person knowing how much they're suffering is them, but each individual will have a different idea of how much suffering something causes. X might be nothing compared to Y for one person, but another will think Y is more tolerable than X.

Yes, u are so true. I cannot compare suffering. We are all different and that is the key concept of it. We should have the same right to die when we want.

 

[humanity]

I dont think it's right to kill yourself unless you have a chronic or terminal physical illness that causes pain or unbearable suffering.

This is mostly in line with the Dutch euthanasia laws or swiss laws.

I do however support your right to end your life and believe you should have access to nembutal for a painless exit.

I have schizophrenia and wanted to kill myself but ended up with a terrible physical condition that made me see that even with schizophrenia life is inherently valuable. But now due to this illness I have one week left until I exit.

I am sorry to hear that U have one week left. I hope u find your peace. What kind of illness do u have!

 

[voool]

I am sorry to hear that U have one week left. I hope u find your peace. What kind of illness do u have!

Intercranial hypertension. Its not terminal but it makes life not worth living.

 

[Schopenhauer]

Intercranial hypertension. Its not terminal but it makes life not worth living.

Now what if someone else says "It's not ethical to kill oneself because of intercranial hypertension"?

 

[mattwitt]

In America a woman has the right to an abortion for "health" reasons.

Last I heard The Supreme Court of The United Sates of America defines "health" as a person's physical, emotional, mental, social, and financial well being.

The same "health" related reasons should apply to suicide in my opinion.

 

[voool]

Now what if someone else says "It's not ethical to kill oneself because of intercranial hypertension"?

I'd buy N from A lol. Just kidding you're right

 

[Sayo]

Intercranial hypertension. Its not terminal but it makes life not worth living.

I experienced this when I nearly died of a brain tumour. (I have multiple.) While I couldn't disagree more with your conclusions about the right to die, I fully empathise with this. It is hell on earth.

I will also add that my mental illness makes my life as poor as my tumour. However, I believe in the unconditional right to self-determination, and am saying this not to justify myself but because I share your frame of reference.

For what it's worth, I believe the provisional right to die improves life for multiple reasons. At the point life is an imposition, it can hardly be meaningfully enjoyed. Suicidal people can choose to live when they have a viable alternative, on their own terms and with the acceptance needed to live in a grounded and mature way. In a palliative setting, euthanasia often serves as no more than peace of mind, but it helps a lot. Some low hanging fruit to consider, as I imagine we are both too tired to hash it out.

 

[TAW122]

@voool I'm glad that you still respect the rights of others to decide when to ctb. As far as life being valuable, well I disagree because life itself is a result of two organisms deciding to mate and breed and we exist as a result of that. Life doesn't have meaning itself, but we humans decide to assign value to it by religion, society, norms, etc.

In America a woman has the right to an abortion for "health" reasons.

Last I heard The Supreme Court of The United Sates of America defines "health" as a person's physical, emotional, mental, social, and financial well being.

The same "health" related reasons should apply to suicide in my opinion.

Exactly. It's sad that most of the people around the world just don't see suicide for health related reasons to be rational. It's almost like they don't want to connect the dots between the two or they're just too blinded by optimistic biases that they fail to acknowledge it.

 

[voool]

I experienced this when I nearly died of a brain tumour. (I have multiple.) While I couldn't disagree more with your conclusions about the right to die, I fully empathise with this. It is hell on earth.

I will also add that my mental illness makes my life as poor as my tumour. However, I believe in the unconditional right to self-determination, and am saying this not to justify myself but because I share your frame of reference.

For what it's worth, I believe the provisional right to die improves life for multiple reasons. At the point life is an imposition, it can hardly be meaningfully enjoyed. Suicidal people can choose to live when they have a viable alternative, on their own terms and with the acceptance needed to live in a grounded and mature way. In a palliative setting, euthanasia often serves as no more than peace of mind, but it helps a lot. Some low hanging fruit to consider, as I imagine we are both too tired to hash it out.

It really is hell.

 

[sadak_the_wanderer]

Having a precondition for "allowing" suicide always seems so reasonable, but it seems to end with having to justify your desire to die before some kind of board of inquiry. I do not think I could stomach meeting with some kind of panel to debate the topic.

 

[Dani Paradox]

I dont think it's right to kill yourself unless you have a chronic or terminal physical illness that causes pain or unbearable suffering.

This is mostly in line with the Dutch euthanasia laws or swiss laws.

I do however support your right to end your life and believe you should have access to nembutal for a painless exit.

I have schizophrenia and wanted to kill myself but ended up with a terrible physical condition that made me see that even with schizophrenia life is inherently valuable. But now due to this illness I have one week left until I exit.

I agree. I am both pro-life and pro-choice. I think suicide should be left as an absolute last resort. More times than not...there is still hope. But sometimes there is simply nothing left to do but die.

 

[Sayo]

It really is hell.

I'm sorry you have to deal with it a minute longer and it's robbing you of life.

 

[Xerxes]

The saying that life has inherent value as determined by whom? God? Society? Your next door neighbor?

You were born into it without your permission and people expect you to be magnificent. Sometimes it doesn't turn out that way and we should be able to on our own terms end it however way we want to without physically hurting anyone else. Many killers before they started murdering people wanted to commit suicide, and when they couldn't because of laws, they hurt someone else so that the police can do it for them. Life is what you make of it, there is no value, only time.

 

[Dani Paradox]

The saying that life has inherent value as determined by whom? God? Society? Your next door neighbor?

You were born into it without your permission and people expect you to be magnificent. Sometimes it doesn't turn out that way and we should be able to on our own terms end it however way we want to without physically hurting anyone else. Many killers before they started murdering people wanted to commit suicide, and when they couldn't because of laws, they hurt someone else so that the police can do it for them. Life is what you make of it, there is no value, only time.

What makes you think it was without your permission? Just because you don't remember making the choice to be born to your parents?

 

[Xerxes]

What makes you think it was without your permission? Just because you don't remember making the choice to be born to your parents?

As mom said, "I just forgot to take my birth control pill that day"