Venting Unplanned pregnancies for a few minutes of pleasure

[Darkover]

This might be a bit of a niche discussion but I'm curious. Has anyone else here been a bit disgusted by the idea that most human being in existence have been brought about by two people's desire to have a few minutes of pleasure?

I don't know how much cross over there is between asexuality and antinatalism (I'd imagine not much considering how uncommon both are individually.) While I myself am not sex repulsed, I pretty consistently see people criticize natalists and someone else defending it by saying something along the lines of "they probably just like sex."

I don't understand how that defense makes it better. I can atleast empathize with people who planned to have children, but that is usually not the case. The whole thing seems so much more selfish than a planned child (even though that is unethical aswell).

 

[SilentSadness]

Yes, it's horrific. This is why abortions need to be legalised, to reduce instances of this happening. Most people see children as slaves so it's not surprising they do this.

 

[사람이 없어]

Depends on if it was an accident or not. Some couples try for a long time before they succeed. Others, like my bio parents had me by accident, and if they didn't everyone would be way better off.
It always irked me and made me sad/annoyed how couples who are in poverty or completely unqualified for children have them, though, simply because of pleasure or because they want kids just because.
Those children just usually end up growing in a bad household and can end up in such a bad life maybe riddled with traumas, abuse etc.. Just.. why..

 

[MercenariesofMidgar]

It's disgusting... the gravity of consciousness and life on the material which composes our being is so unbelievably large... not only being forcefully ejected out of our slumber of nothingness into a world of violence is bad, but so unimaginably worse being created without a spec of preparation by the parents who created them... Because some man or woman wants to feel the wrappings of the other around them. When two people succumb to their urges, making hell.

Wish I was stillborn or some shit

 

[Halfhourdays]

Human behavior is retarded, like implausibly stupid.

 

[pauly369]

Absolutely yes.
Its wierd how human beings are wired.
Our survival is based on the fact that we are wired for pleasure.
People wouldnt eat or breed if no pleasure sensations were involved.

 

[deadbidaylight]

I'll be the odd man out here and disagree. But I come from a different situation so I respect all of your opinions on the matter.

I like sex just as much as the next. But my daughter was conceived out of wanting a child. It had nothing to do with pleasure. It took me years of infertility in order to finally conceive her. And because of this, I make sure to tell her every single day how much I love her and how important and special she is to me. I wish a lot of you had the same love and affection in your upbringing, because maybe you would look at procreation differently.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

I wish a lot of you had the same love and affection in your upbringing, because maybe you would look at procreation differently.

I had a good upbringing with loving parents who had me because they wanted a child and I believe that choosing to procreate is incredibly selfish and should be looked at with more scrutiny.

 

[deadbidaylight]

I

I had a good upbringing with loving parents who had me because they wanted a child and I believe that choosing to procreate is incredibly selfish and should be looked at with more scrutiny.

I agree and disagree with your statement. I don't think the act of procreation itself is selfish. But I do agree that more scrutiny should be used. The whole term "just because you can doesn't mean you should" comes to mind. A lot of children are selfishly brought into the world by folks who are in no shape to raise them and just creates the next generational trauma. I think people should really self assess whether having a child of their own is the right choice. I think many times it wouldn't be.

I am with you that I was brought into the world as a planned baby by my parents who wanted a child. I had a great upbringing and still have a wonderful relationship with my parents. Unfortunately for me, I've inherited my father's mental illnesses. I don't blame him for where I am mentally, rather we lean on each other for comfort because no one else truly knows how it feels to feel the way we do. We understand each others suffering. I think it's really more of a case by case basis rather than a blanket term.

 

[사람이 없어]

I'll be the odd man out here and disagree. But I come from a different situation so I respect all of your opinions on the matter.

I like sex just as much as the next. But my daughter was conceived out of wanting a child. It had nothing to do with pleasure. It took me years of infertility in order to finally conceive her. And because of this, I make sure to tell her every single day how much I love her and how important and special she is to me. I wish a lot of you had the same love and affection in your upbringing, because maybe you would look at procreation differently.

You're a great mommy. Thank you so much for being so nice to your daughter.

 

[JesiBel]

That's how I came into this world, from two stupid teenagers. My mother wasn't allowed to have an abortion because it went against her family's religious beliefs.

 

[MercenariesofMidgar]

I'll be the odd man out here and disagree. But I come from a different situation so I respect all of your opinions on the matter.

I like sex just as much as the next. But my daughter was conceived out of wanting a child. It had nothing to do with pleasure. It took me years of infertility in order to finally conceive her. And because of this, I make sure to tell her every single day how much I love her and how important and special she is to me. I wish a lot of you had the same love and affection in your upbringing, because maybe you would look at procreation differently.

I understand, circumstances can vary wildly and I can admit when I'm in my emotions when replying to things... but for a lot of us an abusive or neglectful parent is what got us here y'know? Someone more than willing to bring life bet hesitant to guide their creation. I'm glad it sounds like your daughter has two loving parents

I wish i wasn't born at all though. I'm vermin

 

[EvisceratedJester]

I

I agree and disagree with your statement. I don't think the act of procreation itself is selfish. But I do agree that more scrutiny should be used. The whole term "just because you can doesn't mean you should" comes to mind. A lot of children are selfishly brought into the world by folks who are in no shape to raise them and just creates the next generational trauma. I think people should really self assess whether having a child of their own is the right choice. I think many times it wouldn't be.

I am with you that I was brought into the world as a planned baby by my parents who wanted a child. I had a great upbringing and still have a wonderful relationship with my parents. Unfortunately for me, I've inherited my father's mental illnesses. I don't blame him for where I am mentally, rather we lean on each other for comfort because no one else truly knows how it feels to feel the way we do. We understand each others suffering. I think it's really more of a case by case basis rather than a blanket term.

Choosing to procreate is itself selfish. You are choosing to do something purely because you believe that it will make you happy. It is something you do based on your own wants rather than out of necessity or as an act of true altruism. In your case, you inherited your father's mental illness yet you chose to have a child nonetheless. You chose to bring someone into existence knowing full well that suffering is an ingrained part of life. It's easy to look at other parents and claim that you aren't selfish, but if you decided to have a kid then you are. The only parents who aren't are those who had children while in situations where they did not get much of a choice and are now raising their kids to the best of their ability since they had no say, such as in instances of in which the child was the result of SA.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but I feel like you are just trying to deny the selfishness of procreation because accepting it as selfish means confronting your own selfishness.

 

[deadbidaylight]

Choosing to procreate is itself selfish. You are choosing to do something purely because you believe that it will make you happy. It is something you do based on your own wants rather than out of necessity or as an act of true altruism. In your case, you inherited your father's mental illness yet you chose to have a child nonetheless. You chose to bring someone into existence knowing full well that suffering is an ingrained part of life. It's easy to look at other parents and claim that you aren't selfish, but if you decided to have a kid then you are. The only parents who aren't are those who had children while in situations where they did not get much of a choice and are now raising their kids to the best of their ability since they had no say, such as in instances of in which the child was the result of SA.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but I feel like you are just trying to deny the selfishness of procreation because accepting it as selfish means confronting your own selfishness.

Hey if that's how you want to look at it, I feel bad for you. I really do.

You think then that humankind should just end because it's selfish to procreate? If that's your view then there's no reasoning with you. I respectfully disagree with your outlook. I am not selfish or I wouldn't give my life up and put myself last to ensure my child is well taken care of and loved and has the best life she could have. Quite frankly I'm insulted that you even bring up my dad's mental illnesses and how I'm knowingly passing it on to my kid just because I ended up with it too. Not everyone inherits everything from their parents. I just happened to be the unlucky one. But I don't loathe my dad because I got sick too. Some things are out of our control and I'm not going to let unknowns in life cripple me from living. If you want to live that way, go for it.

I'm not going to fuel this conversation because I'm too pissed off now. I try to be kind respectful and to logically approach my posts but once I get ticked off I need to step away. I wish you well.

 

[ventingfrustrations]

Depends on if it was an accident or not. Some couples try for a long time before they succeed. Others, like my bio parents had me by accident, and if they didn't everyone would be way better off.
It always irked me and made me sad/annoyed how couples who are in poverty or completely unqualified for children have them, though, simply because of pleasure or because they want kids just because.
Those children just usually end up growing in a bad household and can end up in such a bad life maybe riddled with traumas, abuse etc.. Just.. why..

Yes yes yes yes yes THIIIIS I was planned but in a bad relationship with my mom and dad that ended 5 years after I was born
The second wife incident happened where she was abusive and fought with my dad all the time still fucks me up
She of course was doing drugs and my dad caught her
He's on his 3rd wife and 4th child
5 if you include step kids
Honestly it's probably not surprising that 1/5 of us are gonna end it procreation is neither good nor bad depending honestly it's nature for us to make the kids of our lives and live them

 

[deadbidaylight]

I understand, circumstances can vary wildly and I can admit when I'm in my emotions when replying to things... but for a lot of us an abusive or neglectful parent is what got us here y'know? Someone more than willing to bring life bet hesitant to guide their creation. I'm glad it sounds like your daughter has two loving parents

I wish i wasn't born at all though. I'm vermin

I totally understand speaking from an emotional standpoint, so no need to explain yourself. It's all good! Neglect or abuse on children is so much more common than it's ever talked about and I can definitely see how that would shape a child's world view. It breaks my heart. No child deserves that, but so many adults aren't emotionally equipped to provide a stable environment to raise children, as much as they think they are. Both my daughter's father and I love her endlessly, but we are both also farrrrrr from perfect. It's not all rainbows and butterflies here but we do our best. It's all we can do.

You are not vermin. Don't let those intrusive thoughts win. You and your life are valuable.

That's how I came into this world, from two stupid teenagers. My mother wasn't allowed to have an abortion because it went against her family's religious beliefs.

I'm sorry that you were brought into the world under such shitty circumstances, but I'm glad you're here.

You're a great mommy. Thank you so much for being so nice to your daughter.

Thank you so much for saying that. Sometimes I really need to hear it. Tonight is one of those nights. I really appreciate it.

 

[ham and potatoes]

most human being in existence have been brought about by two people's desire to have a few minutes of pleasure?

Man, that's just how we have evolved.
Look at basically every anime out there. They have evolved to have reproduction feel really good, otherwise it wouldn't be done, and there genes would not be passed on.

 

[SilentSadness]

Hey if that's how you want to look at it, I feel bad for you. I really do.

You think then that humankind should just end because it's selfish to procreate? If that's your view then there's no reasoning with you. I respectfully disagree with your outlook. I am not selfish or I wouldn't give my life up and put myself last to ensure my child is well taken care of and loved and has the best life she could have. Quite frankly I'm insulted that you even bring up my dad's mental illnesses and how I'm knowingly passing it on to my kid just because I ended up with it too. Not everyone inherits everything from their parents. I just happened to be the unlucky one. But I don't loathe my dad because I got sick too. Some things are out of our control and I'm not going to let unknowns in life cripple me from living. If you want to live that way, go for it.

I'm not going to fuel this conversation because I'm too pissed off now. I try to be kind respectful and to logically approach my posts but once I get ticked off I need to step away. I wish you well.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but no, there is no excuse for wilfully having children in this world of suffering. It is unjustifiable to force someone to be here in this world where it's so difficult to die, where pain is so prevalent, where the rich and powerful have an endless amount of greed, where wars, terrorism and torture are happening all the time, and where so many people work their lives away to pay for rent. By forcing a child into this world, you are not only needlessly inflicting pain on them, but also forcing them to commit immoral acts, since existence requires the killing of microorganisms, and often the killing of live animals for food. It is extremely disrespectful for you to come to a venting thread, where someone is venting about their experience of forced suffering, and whine about how it's right to inflict suffering on others because you can't take responsibility for your actions.

 

[pyranha]

bringing up someone's medical family history against them & their decision to have a kid that they take care of very well just to win an argument is nutty as hell ngl i wish i wasn't born like most of the people here but if we want to argue about selfishness then let's argue it all, not just kids. i agree that you shouldn't have a kid you can't take care of emotionally, physically, and financially- but for many different reasons, people still do. and circumstances, unfortunately, change. i'm not saying that makes it right to have 4 kids even though you can barely take care of 1, but the way a lot of you speak lacks compassion- if you saw a homeless person with a dog you would call them selfish too. what you wouldn't know is that they had no idea they'd be homeless 4 years ago when they got the dog, and only recently came into such horrific social circumstance.

the truth is, everything is a dice toss. everything. how our lives will turn out, who our parents will be, how we will be treated by others, how our animals lives will go, if the plant you bought will thrive- dice toss. yes, there's things you can do to ensure a better ending, such as treating your children well. but overall, you can't control every aspect of life, and even if you do your absolute best, maybe tomorrow you end up homeless with your two cats out on the street with you because none of your family or friends want to take them in. maybe tomorrow your plant dies because there's just too much pollution in the area you live in. maybe tomorrow you get sick just because sometimes people get sick.

just because a good end isn't guaranteed doesn't mean that life is worthless. my cat will die someday, likely from a disease born of old age- i can't stop that. i can make her life as wonderful as possible while she's here, and take her to the vet when something goes wrong. beyond that, i can't do much else. i can't promise that she's never going to suffer at all, that she won't ever get sick. but that doesn't mean her life is worthless and that i'm a selfish asshole for daring to take in a living being without considering the 900000 possible negative outcomes.

it's just a crazy way to talk to someone, honestly. i wish i hadn't been born at all, i desperately wish my ancestors had just done what they wanted instead of following the status quo. i think MANY people are not cut out to be parents, and it's better to accept that before you have kids at all rather than try anyhow- it's better to regret never having kids than to regret having them, or to be a bad parent because you can't take the heat. all of that being said, i have had good moments in my life, moments that don't outweigh the bad yes, but moments that i cherish nonetheless. just because ive suffered doesnt mean my entire life is useless and that my mere existence suggests an inherently cruel universe.

im all over the place because im tired but that comment really bothered me. that was nasty and mean- unnecessarily so. just because someone has mental or physical health issues doesn't mean they should all die out- that's eugenics talk. and just because someone had kids doesn't make them inherently selfish, evil people- if that's true, then everyone with a pet who isn't swimming in money for frequent vet visits is also selfish and evil. and even then you might still be selfish, because money doesn't equal emotional intelligence or love either. like let's not get hypocritical and mean now.

 

[GhostInTheMachine]

Not everyone inherits everything from their parents. I just happened to be the unlucky one. But I don't loathe my dad because I got sick too. Some things are out of our control and I'm not going to let unknowns in life cripple me from living. If you want to live that way, go for it.

Not everyone inherits everything, but quite often they do. That's how heredity works and "family curses" are very real and common things. It's fine not to despise your father for them handing a sickness down, but that's still something he should've considered before having a child. You might not let unknowns cripple YOU from living, but what about your child who may end up with it worse for a myriad of reasons? This is why procreation is inherently selfish, even if that selfishness is not inherently immoral. You are basically gambling with somebody else's life on "Well, maybe it will work out for them", because YOU want to procreate, not because they wanted to exist.

Staying on family curses, I inherited quite a few from both my parents, but they just really wanted to have me, so should I feel better about that? I was fully planned and mostly cared for, and still my conditions leave me pretty destitute. I've also tried my best to not resent them, but I'm not about to gamble with any potential kids of mine because I myself want to bear children.

 

[TheMountainTreeEgg]

I had a discussion about this a while back and I think we should more heavily implement sex ed in highschool and well as safe-sex practices. On top of having active resources like contraceptions and other procedures. Obviously this won't stop "accidents" but it could heavily reduce them and people would suffer less.

 

[GhostInTheMachine]

There's a reason that more prosperous societies tend to have less kids. They're more well-off and educated and thus consider the choice more before having children, if not abstain altogether. This is also why younger generations are having even less kids, because overall the material conditions of the average person is worse off today than their parents, and it's much easier to access the information to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

I'm an anti-natalist myself, but I completely understand the desire to want children. It's pre-programmed biological imperative for the vast majority of people, and fighting against it is not as easy as many anti-nats want to make it seem. I still think it's 100% selfish to have children, not from a moral standing, but from a practical one. *I* am the one who wants to have kids, my kids are not the ones who want to exist. I can want something, and still admit that I'm selfish, but introducing morality requires far more nuance.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Very few pregnancies I've heard about came about through accidents. Most couples I know of really wanted children.

I'm not sure really. A work colleague became pregnant unintentionally. She already had children but wasn't intending to have more at that stage. I doubt that would have affected her ability to parent though. Similarly, just because people want children, it doesn't mean they'll necessarily be good parents.

I definitely feel fearful for children being brought into this world generally. Maybe the idea of having children myself disgusts me. I do feel disgusted by certain behaviours towards parenting too. Parents who neglect or abuse their children. Those who shirk their responsibilities. Being female, I have my own bias against men who inseminate women all over the place and leave them to bring up the child.

Perhaps women have a more vested need to ensure contraception works if they don't want children but, it's still a dual act. I've known guys lie to get what they want or what pleasures them with no care of the consequences. I expect women do it too- to be fair. And yes- that's really tragic if it results in a child that no one wants.

 

[Pluto]

 

[deadbidaylight]

bringing up someone's medical family history against them & their decision to have a kid that they take care of very well just to win an argument is nutty as hell ngl i wish i wasn't born like most of the people here but if we want to argue about selfishness then let's argue it all, not just kids. i agree that you shouldn't have a kid you can't take care of emotionally, physically, and financially- but for many different reasons, people still do. and circumstances, unfortunately, change. i'm not saying that makes it right to have 4 kids even though you can barely take care of 1, but the way a lot of you speak lacks compassion- if you saw a homeless person with a dog you would call them selfish too. what you wouldn't know is that they had no idea they'd be homeless 4 years ago when they got the dog, and only recently came into such horrific social circumstance.

the truth is, everything is a dice toss. everything. how our lives will turn out, who our parents will be, how we will be treated by others, how our animals lives will go, if the plant you bought will thrive- dice toss. yes, there's things you can do to ensure a better ending, such as treating your children well. but overall, you can't control every aspect of life, and even if you do your absolute best, maybe tomorrow you end up homeless with your two cats out on the street with you because none of your family or friends want to take them in. maybe tomorrow your plant dies because there's just too much pollution in the area you live in. maybe tomorrow you get sick just because sometimes people get sick.

just because a good end isn't guaranteed doesn't mean that life is worthless. my cat will die someday, likely from a disease born of old age- i can't stop that. i can make her life as wonderful as possible while she's here, and take her to the vet when something goes wrong. beyond that, i can't do much else. i can't promise that she's never going to suffer at all, that she won't ever get sick. but that doesn't mean her life is worthless and that i'm a selfish asshole for daring to take in a living being without considering the 900000 possible negative outcomes.

it's just a crazy way to talk to someone, honestly. i wish i hadn't been born at all, i desperately wish my ancestors had just done what they wanted instead of following the status quo. i think MANY people are not cut out to be parents, and it's better to accept that before you have kids at all rather than try anyhow- it's better to regret never having kids than to regret having them, or to be a bad parent because you can't take the heat. all of that being said, i have had good moments in my life, moments that don't outweigh the bad yes, but moments that i cherish nonetheless. just because ive suffered doesnt mean my entire life is useless and that my mere existence suggests an inherently cruel universe.

im all over the place because im tired but that comment really bothered me. that was nasty and mean- unnecessarily so. just because someone has mental or physical health issues doesn't mean they should all die out- that's eugenics talk. and just because someone had kids doesn't make them inherently selfish, evil people- if that's true, then everyone with a pet who isn't swimming in money for frequent vet visits is also selfish and evil. and even then you might still be selfish, because money doesn't equal emotional intelligence or love either. like let's not get hypocritical and mean now.

You have no idea how much I appreciate you going to bat for me. I came to this site due to feelings of my own hopelessness and hoped to find a supportive community that I could feel I somewhat belonged. I also came here to try and be a positive force in some lives that otherwise dont have that. I don't have a lot of my own strength left, but I'd hoped I could shine a bit of my light on some darkness and maybe make a difference, even for a few minutes in someone's life.

Instead, I constantly feel guilty about my own choices and my choice to be a mother. It's extremely hurtful to me and it's making me feel worse. I came here trying to be supportive of everyone's decisions whether I agree with them or not and many times (especially lately) I feel like the same level of respect or support is not extended to me. I guess that's the nature of the beast. We expect to be treated the same way we treat other people and it's just not reality. It's a shame. I really wish the world was a better place. You'd think people who feel as deeply as we all do would be a bit better at empathy. But I digress.

 

[pyranha]

You have no idea how much I appreciate you going to bat for me. I came to this site due to feelings of my own hopelessness and hoped to find a supportive community that I could feel I somewhat belonged. I also came here to try and be a positive force in some lives that otherwise dont have that. I don't have a lot of my own strength left, but I'd hoped I could shine a bit of my light on some darkness and maybe make a difference, even for a few minutes in someone's life.

Instead, I constantly feel guilty about my own choices and my choice to be a mother. It's extremely hurtful to me and it's making me feel worse. I came here trying to be supportive of everyone's decisions whether I agree with them or not and many times (especially lately) I feel like the same level of respect or support is not extended to me. I guess that's the nature of the beast. We expect to be treated the same way we treat other people and it's just not reality. It's a shame. I really wish the world was a better place. You'd think people who feel as deeply as we all do would be a bit better at empathy. But I digress.

it's genuinely not your fault that people can be so cruel even in a place like this, taking anything too far lands us in extreme waters. it's not difficult to discuss the nuance of giving birth and raising kids and the responsibility attached to it without dogpiling and making it personal. it also doesn't suddenly make someone pro life just because they don't feel that life is inherently worthless or cruel. nuance is an extremely valuable thing that more people should implement.

i think what happens is people get so wrapped up in their own suffering that it becomes a cocoon. they refuse to try and see past the cocoon at some point, and then decide "well the world has been cruel to me, so i should be cruel to others too. it's deserved because it's just logical that life sucks and evil wins." as if that's not the EXACT logic that those who have hurt us use. everyone who has ever hurt us was hurt by someone else and actively decided against compassion because it's easier to be mean. having empathy and compassion even for people whose choices you can't comprehend is hard. deciding to try and make the world kinder even when it does suck quite a lot is hard. deciding to be compassionate to others even when you're suffering yourself is hard.

i know it's easier said than done but don't take it to heart- a lot of these cruel comments come from people that are literally right on the edge of being pro eugenics and ecofascists. we can discuss the right for us to die and our own reasonings for why we want to without forgetting the social implications and consequences. even more so, genuinely don't take it personally when it comes from that jester person. no shade i'm being honest but i lurked on this site for a long time before i ever joined and they literally just enjoy pissing random people off. multiple users have several times told them that the way they speak to others goes too far, and they still do this anyhow. some people just like to twist the knife because they can.

 

[deadbidaylight]

it's genuinely not your fault that people can be so cruel even in a place like this, taking anything too far lands us in extreme waters. it's not difficult to discuss the nuance of giving birth and raising kids and the responsibility attached to it without dogpiling and making it personal. it also doesn't suddenly make someone pro life just because they don't feel that life is inherently worthless or cruel. nuance is an extremely valuable thing that more people should implement.

i think what happens is people get so wrapped up in their own suffering that it becomes a cocoon. they refuse to try and see past the cocoon at some point, and then decide "well the world has been cruel to me, so i should be cruel to others too. it's deserved because it's just logical that life sucks and evil wins." as if that's not the EXACT logic that those who have hurt us use. everyone who has ever hurt us was hurt by someone else and actively decided against compassion because it's easier to be mean. having empathy and compassion even for people whose choices you can't comprehend is hard. deciding to try and make the world kinder even when it does suck quite a lot is hard. deciding to be compassionate to others even when you're suffering yourself is hard.

i know it's easier said than done but don't take it to heart- a lot of these cruel comments come from people that are literally right on the edge of being pro eugenics and ecofascists. we can discuss the right for us to die and our own reasonings for why we want to without forgetting the social implications and consequences. even more so, genuinely don't take it personally when it comes from that jester person. no shade i'm being honest but i lurked on this site for a long time before i ever joined and they literally just enjoy pissing random people off. multiple users have several times told them that the way they speak to others goes too far, and they still do this anyhow. some people just like to twist the knife because they can.

I'll try my best to ignore them. I respect that we all have differing opinions on a lot of things. I'm not here to fight or argue about who's right or wrong, because there is no right or wrong in our beliefs. I will continue to exercise empathy and respect because that's who I am as a person, regardless of how I'm treated. In the end, kindness always prevails. At least in my world, it does.

Some days are harder than others. This has really gotten to me this morning, but I'll try and put it out of my mind, and give my daughter a big hug and kiss when she gets home from school today. When the haters get me down, I'll just love my daughter even more.