Ugly Looking People are Better & Healthier for Society

[Snake of Eden]

A healthy society is one with happier individuals/families while experiencing the least possible amount of suffering (incl. lower suicide rates). I think that ugly to average looking people have a good utility in society as they are not necessarily too occupied with their looks in away that would interfere with their productivity and livelihood. For example, a happily married average person have better odds at maintaining a successful marriage throughout their lifetime because they would have less chance at getting offers of sex outside marriage imo. That is very impactful if you think about it as less divorces will increase the chances of happier couples, kids, careers and happier society overall etc. unfortunately, younger generations are becoming ever more fixated on unrealistic good looks (thanks in big part to social media) which breeds lots of unhealthy idealism, self-image issues, resentments and desire for unattainable looks and partners. That in turn breeds alot of dissatisfaction and unhappiness as a result because we dont look good enough and nothing around looks good enough. The moral of this story is that surely, being very good looking and having a very good looking partner is glorious in alot of ways but does not come without a price. My 2 cents.

I am not proposing getting rid of good looking people as the solution. But I think a society that minimizes or avoids all together idealizing physical beauty from its culture is a good place to start. Also if parents start to consciously educate their kids from young age that while physical looks are self-evidently appealing yet have less importance to when it comes to perceiving themselves and other people so rather teach them to look for good character qualities instead. It could transform society for the better

Thoughts?

 

[settheory]

"productivity"
Not nessessarily linked to social happiness. People are not supposed drones.
"livelihood"
Of which beauty (in general, not just of body) can be an important part for many.

The same kind of reasoning can be used against art in general, and many other things considered not directly productive or even harmful. That we should not listen to sad music because it will make us sad or read controversial books because "they would spread bad values and corrupt youth" or whatever.

"For example, a happily married average person have better odds at maintaining a successful marriage throughout their lifetime because they would have less chance at getting offers of sex outside marriage imo."
Don't get me wrong, but this kind of argument is often used against women. That women "should not look like sluts", "should dress modestly", "always wear a burka when outside", that they "provoke rape", accused of adultery because the way they dressed is considered inappropriate and so on. And against men sometimes. Like that "men should not look like f*ggots" or something. You did not say any of that, of course, and i don't think you believe in any of that, but your reasoning is somewhat reminiscent of those types of sayings.
Some people find family and career more important, some less. And it's fine either way, as long as they don't harm anyone.

"unfortunately, younger generations are becoming ever more fixated on unrealistic looking people (thanks in big part to social media) which breeds lots of unhealthy idealism, self-image issues, resentments and desire for unattainable looks and partners."
Nah.
That's the kind of thing they said about all young generations. That they listen to satanic, corrupting music, read corrupting books, that they are influenced by Soviet bolshevism and American capitalism all at the same time, that they shoot up schools because they play violent videogames, even that they eat avocado toasts. All kinds of moral panics, mild and severe.

"I am not proposing getting rid of good looking people as the solution. But I think a society that minimizes or avoids all together idealizing physical beauty from its culture is a good place to start. ..."
It seems like you kinda have a double meaning for the word "idolizes" to conveniently use as a rhethorical device. Sure, we should not be utterly obsessed with looks, but what you previously said is more than that. You put family and career in opposition to beauty you find excessive, and associated the former two with social happiness and prosperity. Something like "if not this, than that". And you accused the young generations of being too obsessed with looks which is probably not the case.

We should not judge people based on looks, either ugly or beautiful.

Just my 2 dimes.

Edit: is it in Offtopic or Suicide now? Seems like it moved a couple of times.

 

[gottago222]

i would like to have never been born at all.

 

[Snake of Eden]

"productivity"
Not nessessarily linked to social happiness. People are not supposed drones.
"livelihood"
Of which beauty (in general, not just of body) can be an important part for many.

The same kind of reasoning can be used against art in general, and many other things considered not directly productive or even harmful. That we should not listen to sad music because it will make us sad or read controversial books because "they would spread bad values and corrupt youth" or whatever.

"For example, a happily married average person have better odds at maintaining a successful marriage throughout their lifetime because they would have less chance at getting offers of sex outside marriage imo."
Don't get me wrong, but this kind of argument is often used against women. That women "should not look like sluts", "should dress modestly", "always wear a burka when outside", that they "provoke rape", accused of adultery because the way they dressed is considered inappropriate and so on. And against men sometimes. Like that "men should not look like f*ggots" or something. You did not say any of that, of course, and i don't think you believe in any of that, but your reasoning is somewhat reminiscent of those types of sayings.
Some people find family and career more important, some less. And it's fine either way, as long as they don't harm anyone.

"unfortunately, younger generations are becoming ever more fixated on unrealistic looking people (thanks in big part to social media) which breeds lots of unhealthy idealism, self-image issues, resentments and desire for unattainable looks and partners."
Nah.
That's the kind of thing they said about all young generations. That they listen to satanic, corrupting music, read corrupting books, that they are influenced by Soviet bolshevism and American capitalism all at the same time, that they shoot up schools because they play violent videogames, even that they eat avocado toasts. All kinds of moral panics, mild and severe.

"I am not proposing getting rid of good looking people as the solution. But I think a society that minimizes or avoids all together idealizing physical beauty from its culture is a good place to start. ..."
It seems like you kinda have a double meaning for the word "idolizes" to conveniently use as a rhethorical device. Sure, we should not be utterly obsessed with looks, but what you previously said is more than that. You put family and career in opposition to beauty you find excessive, and associated the former two with social happiness and prosperity. Something like "if not this, than that". And you accused the young generations of being too obsessed with looks which is probably not the case.

We should not judge people based on looks, either ugly or beautiful.

Just my 2 dimes.

Wow you went through a significant amount of mental gymnastics and over analyzing semantics dude. It is just a thought. I am not on a crusade here to convert people. Relax :)

 

[Interloper]

Wow you went through a significant amount of mental gymnastics and over analyzing semantics dude. It is just a thought. I am not on a crusade here to convert people. Relax :)

In all fairness you did ask people for their thoughts.

Thoughts?

 

[death137]

Being ugly is like playing a game on grounded difficulty. It affects almost everything in your life. It isn't something to be wished for.

People idealize good looks mostly not because of culture but nature.

 

[Snake of Eden]

In all fairness you did ask people for their thoughts.

Dont get me wrong i was happy with the response. I just got the vibe that the observation I was making based on my real life experiences, was somehow an attack on art, generational disparity, personal liberties, etc... That was not my intention to provoke or criticize people's tastes or personal choices.

 

[Snake of Eden]

Being ugly is like playing a game on grounded difficulty. It affects almost everything in your life. It isn't something to be wished for.

People idealize good looks mostly not because of culture but nature.

Being ugly is often not a choice. And, yes i did specify that naturally we idealize good looks but I think modern culture put that one on steroids with the way it is playing out nowadays. I sympathize and I am not to make light of the reality of being perceived as ugly looking. I am just saying that it is often overlooked how it could be a blessing in disguise. I am also making the point that our modern culture goes out of its way to normalize good looks which obviously will make people who are perceived as ugly be more left out and marginalized

 

[Snake of Eden]

We should not judge people based on looks, either ugly or beautiful.

Just my 2 dimes.

Edit: is it in Offtopic or Suicide now? Seems like it moved a couple of times.

I agree we shouldnt but it is very easy to say that we wont judge people by their looks when modern culture is too consumed with whats conceived as beauty ideals and that gets subconsciouslly embedded in people overall and susceptible youth. In that context saying we shouldnt judge people by their looks effectively is just parroting a meaningless platitude

It moved to offtopic now. You got a problem with the moving?

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Posting this again:


That said, there's a lot of trade-offs to it as with everything else. Then again though, why are those the only options? Majority of people are neither ugly nor extremely attractive. They're just average, that's why I can't decide.

 

[Snake of Eden]

Posting this again:


That said, there's a lot of trade-offs to it as with everything else. Then again though, why are those the only options? Majority of people are neither ugly nor extremely attractive. They're just average, that's why I can't decide.

People go out of their way to shield their precious world view from criticism even when it is extremely toxic and causing alot of palpable yet insidious damage on a mass scale.

 

[Pluto]

The elephant in the room here is that for 99.9% of human history, young people were raised by parents, grandparents and a wider tribe of community. They gained values, culture, survival strategies and, above all, had some sort of place or purpose within the society.

Today, they are raised by Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus, TV, movies, Tik Tok and magazines if not porn. Mark Zuckerburg's 'algorithm' is designed to prioritise whatever content will keep people addicted to the website without regard for ethics. There were milder versions of these issues for previous generations such that it has become universally normalised. Today, people will only listen to music, buy magazines, read the news (ever seen the Daily Mail website?), watch movies and click content more if there are underdressed young women presented on screen every step of the way.

This is a perversion of natural biological instincts that make people viscerally attracted to beauty because a physically fit or aesthetically attractive partner is an early visual indicator of who is considered to have better genes. And as with other perversions of nature, like trade of goods evolving into planet-destroying corporatism, it becomes impossible to avoid a descent into destruction because this is now the expected standard.

The situation is fucked for a long list of reasons that many of us here are directly affected by:
* Young women up the beauty hierarchy are so lusted after that they are constantly under threat from drink spiking, needle spiking, physical assault, sexual abuse, jealous hatred, etc. Some on this website have even expressed concern for their corpse being raped after death.
* The actual human beings of young women - their talents, interests, passions personality, etc. - get buried by the fever pitch of noise around superficial appearances. Yet the culture encourages more and more fixation on optimising one's looks since it is an investment of energy that appears the basis for all material success.
* Young men are pushed to shape their very identities around chasing women, which happens to lead to the establishment of primitive dominance hierarchies and encourages ugly hypermasculine attitudes that are at odds with decent community or care for others. Or they become completely despondent if they are unable to achieve the social validation of attraction - as if this is the be-all and end-all of life. Ethics in some cases goes out the window.
* In short, empathy, community and care for one another is lost as people become fixated on climbing hierarchies rather than being themselves or finding a meaningful inner purpose. To some degree, these systems and hierarchies are natural, but have been distorted to an absurd degree by the horrible way in which the media raises children, as parents look on from the sidelines.

As an aside, the issues around beauty are somewhat analogous to the ugliness, cruelty and narcissism that emerges in human behaviour around lust for money and the luxuries, power and status that goes with it. Money itself is not the problem, but an unbalanced and unethical fixation upon it which is not counterbalanced by spiritual qualities.

If I were pressed to talk about solutions, it would have to do with distancing ourselves from this culture and seeking alternatives. We also need to ask who we really are and be mindful of the myriad of ways in which we are being manipulated by the outside world.

 

[summers]

The elephant in the room here is that for 99.9% of human history, young people were raised by parents, grandparents and a wider tribe of community. They gained values, culture, survival strategies and, above all, had some sort of place or purpose within the society.

My argument against this is humans have intelligence, and are able to adapt. For 99.9999% of history, humans have lived on earth, and yet we had people on the space station for over a year. Society changes, and as humans, we can change with it or get left behind.

 

[Insomniac]

for your poll, I can't decide because I'm neither "very" good looking (like a model would be) or "below" average. I'm simply good looking overall.

If I were to chose a partner, I wouldn't mind being with someone conventionally ugly since I don't plan on reproducing anyway.

And If I wanted to reproduce, I wouldn't mind having ugly children either.

This is a new one for me because I used to be like everyone else and prefer good looking people over ugly but I realised that what truly matters in a mating partner is their health and sense of responsibility and iq level.

Excepting anything else is demented. the sad thing is our society, as a whole, is demented.

 

[Snake of Eden]

* In short, empathy, community and care for one another is lost as people become fixated on climbing hierarchies rather than being themselves or finding a meaningful inner purpose. To some degree, these systems and hierarchies are natural, but have been distorted to an absurd degree by the horrible way in which the media raises children, as parents look on from the sidelines.

this is a tiny sample but I made this pool the way it is to demonstrate an important point. There are people who would prefer to be good looking and miserable rather than below average and happy. Many cant even decide! This is how WARPED the minds of some of society's members to when it comes to the importance of looking beautiful. Obviously, they got their priorities mixed up or they are just too confused so not to choose happiness over good looks. A person with a balanced outlook on life and what it is about will for sure pick to be less than average looking but happy. I find it tragically hilarious that people rather be very good looking but miserable and even more so most people didnt choose to be happy as simple as that. I find this tragically hilarious . But diversity in personal preferences is always a good thing I guess. To each their own

 

[Insomniac]

View attachment 84942
this is a tiny sample but I made this pool the way it is to demonstrate an important point. There are people who would prefer to be good looking and miserable rather than below average and happy. Many cant even decide! This is how WARPED the minds of some of society's members to when it comes to the importance of looking beautiful. Obviously, they got their priorities mixed up or they are just too confused so not to choose happiness over good looks. A person with a balanced outlook on life and what it is about will for sure pick to be less than average looking but happy. I find it tragically hilarious that people rather be very good looking but miserable and even more so most people didnt choose to be happy as simple as that. I find this tragically hilarious . But diversity in personal preferences is always a good thing I guess. To each their own

You didn't even need to demonstrate that because it's just a fact. If people valued happiness over looks, then 50% of marriages wouldn't end up in divorce lmao. If average people were OK with marrying ugly people, and if beautiful people were okay with average people, then the divorce rates would go down to almost zero as well as the rates of toxic relationships.

 

[Snake of Eden]

You didn't even need to demonstrate that because it's just a fact. If people valued happiness over looks, then 50% of marriages wouldn't end up in divorce lmao. If average people were OK with marrying ugly people, and if beautiful people were okay with average people, then the divorce rates would go down to almost zero as well as the rates of toxic relationships.

I agree with you but It is more complicated than that. Modern society is structured in many ways and on many levels, to set up people to fail at finding & keeping happiness all in pursuit of chasing unsubstantial hits of dopamine & cheap thrills which are often disguised as some sort of divine boon. This is what happens when beauty and material pursuit is uplifted & erected to a god like status to be worshiped by members of society.

 

[summers]

You didn't even need to demonstrate that because it's just a fact. If people valued happiness over looks, then 50% of marriages wouldn't end up in divorce lmao. If average people were OK with marrying ugly people, and if beautiful people were okay with average people, then the divorce rates would go down to almost zero as well as the rates of toxic relationships.

Actually, if more people realized how ridiculous the idea of monogamy is and had open relationships, divorce rates would plummet. Not having kids would help a lot too.

Divorce has very little to do with looks. It had everything do to with trust, financial independence, and overall happiness.

 

[Snake of Eden]

Actually, if more people realized how ridiculous the idea of monogamy is and had open relationships, divorce rates would plummet. Not having kids would help a lot too.

Monogamy is understandable & justifiably healthy for society but its dynamics and scope needs to be flexible in some exceptional cases in my opinion. Open relationships is the way to go nowadays for many progressive thinking people and we are yet to see its effects on society being studied but I dont see any indication of of any positives and I am not optimistic. A society with a dominant open relationship type of courtship would create a lot of confusion in lineages of offspring. It would result in people not knowing who is a father, who is a sibling, nephew, niece, etc.. which would lead to incidents of unknowable incest and DNA technology cant effeciently prevent that from happening as no one will bother to take a dna test with someone else so they can just sleep with them. And Not having kids will just end society

Divorce has very little to do with looks. It had everything do to with trust, financial independence, and overall happiness.

I HIGHLY disagree. Attraction is in the center of many divorces in my opinion even on a subconscious level and I dont think research would accurately be able to reveal that as people who will be surveyed will probably pick anything other than attractions being reason for divorce because they may not like to admit to themselves how superficial they actually are. Marriage is essentially a sexual contract anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional

 

[Nanako]

I'd become ugly if it meant getting rid of my physical illness, because then I'd be able to continue doing what I'm passionate about, as well as no longer have to deal with physical pain/discomfort. Better to be ugly and have purpose, then to be attractive but have nothing meaningful to look forward to.

I've been told that I'm attractive my whole life. I've never had trouble getting attention from men I've been attracted to either. Lots of people have tried to befriend me despite not sharing my interests, and they did so just because they wanted to be associated with me (I assume). But all that comes from this is a fleeting gratification that you forget about almost immediately after it's over; the reason why so many crave attention is because it functions like a drug, you feel good for a while once you have a taste of it, sure, but then you need more immediately after it's over because it has no long-term benefits. Once you've tasted it for so long you begin to feel depressed, as you realize that you've wasted your life on the surface-level pleasure that being attractive/sociable brings, when instead, you could've been cultivating a skill that will ultimately fill you with a greater sense of purpose and meaning down the line. Being good-looking is overrated, it might do a better job of filling the void in your soul than anything else, and it might be a privilege that only a few have, but at the end of the day it's no different than playing videogames or drinking: it's still a coping mechanism and therefore it can only make you feel less miserable for so long.

Scientists and artists (the good ones) lead the most fulfilling lives because their paths are time-consuming, difficult and ultimately rewarding/meaningful. Plus your journey is never truly over, there's always uncharted territory worth exploring if you're into science/art. The problem is, in order to do either of those things you first need to be lacking in debilitating physical/mental ailments. I, for one, am not, and it's due to reasons I can't circumvent no matter how hard I try to. If one can't work and if one can't accomplish something that's meaningful by their own standards then what's the point in living? I can't do either of those things which is why I'd rather just drop dead right now.

But anyway, yeah, that's my answer. Ugly but healthy wins (imo).

 

[Snake of Eden]

Scientists and artists (the good ones) lead the most fulfilling lives because their paths are time-consuming, difficult and ultimately rewarding/meaningful. Plus your journey is never truly over, there's always uncharted territory worth exploring if you're into science/art. The problem is, in order to do either of those things you first need to be lacking in debilitating physical/mental ailments. I, for one, am not, and it's due to reasons I can't circumvent no matter how hard I try to. If one can't work and if one can't accomplish something that's meaningful by their own standards then what's the point in living? I can't do either of those things which is why I'd rather just drop dead right now.

Thats definitely very true. I would like to add that there are plenty of uncharted territories for avenues to utilize creativity and sense of purpose like pushing people out of their comfort zones to talk about things that are considered axioms in modern societies. Science is great tool but it is not unlimited nor is flawless. Critical thinking and reflection are just as important to put things into context and we need to challenge our thinking and society's in order to improve as species. After all our goal above all as species is to reduce our suffering to minimal levels and also reduce our impact on the environment if we can help it. Being suicidal shouldnt deter us from wanting better things for ourselves and others. Actually being suicidal is great state of being to force us to take a serious look at what is leading us and others like us to get to this point and if there is anything that can be done about it even if it means an overhaul of cultural norms that are deemed aesthetic or complimentary but on a deeper level are causing subconscious harm to society and it done so for a long time but they are taken for granted because they are our old ways that shaped our identities as nations and individuals but ultimately should inherited customs and traditions supersede preserving the human psyche at all cost? I dont think so. Obviously some very "beloved" things and old ways that are very relevant and prominent in our human culture must be questioned and even discarded if they turn out to be more harmful in tangible ways and i dont think we need to wait on some scientific initiative to confirm that these issues exist. By reflection and discussion we can very much deduce obvious unhealthy "normal" things and present solutions and alternatives so we can truly evolve past matters that are no longer good for our collective and the future generations

 

[Snake of Eden]

This is shocking! It turned out that men actually struggle with saying no to sex. Maybe if there are less incentives to getting offers for sex from strangers then it can be beneficial to marriages and families overall as men factually have hard time saying no?

 

[summers]

This is shocking! It turned out that men actually struggle with saying no to sex. Maybe if there are less incentives to getting offers for sex from strangers then it can be beneficial to marriages and families overall as men factually have hard time saying no?
View attachment 85001

100% if you like someone, it is near impossible to say no.

 

[Snake of Eden]

100% if you like someone, it is near impossible to say no.

I can safely vouch for that

 

[MrBlue]

I'd say acceptance is probably more important than purpose in being happy, which is considerably more difficult when you are ugly. Maybe I'm a nihilist but I don't think anything is inherently meaningful, so being in company you enjoy while you go about your life is pretty crucial.
If I was ugly (who am kidding I'm 5'3 lol, there's no if) but had a good social group I can then find purpose with and alongside then yeah I'd prefer it to being good looking but not having that in a heartbeat.

 

[summers]

Monogamy is understandable & justifiably healthy for society but its dynamics and scope needs to be flexible in some exceptional cases in my opinion. Open relationships is the way to go nowadays for many progressive thinking people and we are yet to see its effects on society being studied but I dont see any indication of of any positives and I am not optimistic. A society with a dominant open relationship type of courtship would create a lot of confusion in lineages of offspring. It would result in people not knowing who is a father, who is a sibling, nephew, niece, etc.. which would lead to incidents of unknowable incest and DNA technology cant effeciently prevent that from happening as no one will bother to take a dna test with someone else so they can just sleep with them. And Not having kids will just end society

DNA could take care of any paternity questions even before the child is born. I actually don't think we're all that far off from everyone having their dna in a database of some sort. It only makes sense as you could identify genetic disorders at or before birth, giving parents the choice to continue or terminate the pregnancy, as well as develop a treatment protocol immediately.

I think it comes down to most people aren't geared for an open relationship (yet). I am one of the least jealous people there is, but every once in a while, even I have to actively suppress these feelings. I tired an open relationship with someone once - the deal was we both continued our main relationships, and would be fwb's. It didn't last long at all. She broke up with her bf after about a month. She couldn't handle it.

Marriage is essentially a sexual contract anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional

I guess I'm delusional then. Marriage should be two people who support and love one another. For the majority of people, this involves sex, but I couldn't take being in a relationship where it was expected. If a woman screws her husband once a week just to stop his whining, that's 100% headed for divorce. It has nothing to do with physical appearance - sexual attraction is way more complicated than that. I 100% would never want someone to have sex with me out of obligation. I would feel disgusted with myself if I ever found out that happened.