Trauma from train CTB

[Redleaf1992]

Hi all,

Just saw this article about a train driver and the brain damage he suffered from the trauma of someone jumping in front of his train.

Just thought it was a good reminder not only why these methods are not usually recommended but also why methods like SN ismjnportant vs conventional methods which often include observers.

NI health trust ‘abandoned’ train driver who suffered brain injury after near miss, says angry wife

A Co Down woman whose husband suffered a hypoxic brain injury after a person jumped in front of the train he was driving feels he has been abandoned by a health trust.

m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk

 

[justpathetic]

So I feel bad for this guy but he had a heart attack and his brain injury was from being deprived oxygen. That's not on the person who tried to ctb. The train didn't even hit the person. I personally feel if you have a heart attack from a near miss at 44 you have other extenuating issues. Probably should never have been driving a train. Do they not require annual health checks for conductors in uk?

 

[chester]

So I feel bad for this guy but he had a heart attack and his brain injury was from being deprived oxygen. That's not on the person who tried to ctb. The train didn't even hit the person. I personally feel if you have a heart attack from a near miss at 44 you have other extenuating issues. Probably should never have been driving a train. Do they not require annual health checks for conductors in uk?

Well, to you the conclusion is "he had it coming", but I don't agree. I think the moral of this story is "don't involve others, because you never know how much harm you may cause".

 

[rozeske]

This is why people need to take a second to think and only decide about their life and not others.

 

[justpathetic]

Well, to you the conclusion is "he had it coming", but I don't agree. I think the moral of this story is "don't involve others, because you never know how much harm you may cause".

I'm not saying the driver had it coming. I said there had to be extenuating circumstances. Maybe he knew he had cardiac issues maybe he didn't. Involving others is never a good decision IMO however I don't think someone ctb is responsible.

 

[NegevChina]

If you compare CTB by jumping vs by train- jumping from a building can traumatize many residents of the building but train can potentially traumatize the driver alone.

 

[Ineedthis18743]

It doesn't matter what method is used. Someone is always going to find you. You're always going to involve someone

 

[Reflection]

So I feel bad for this guy but he had a heart attack and his brain injury was from being deprived oxygen. That's not on the person who tried to ctb. The train didn't even hit the person. I personally feel if you have a heart attack from a near miss at 44 you have other extenuating issues. Probably should never have been driving a train. Do they not require annual health checks for conductors in uk?

This is exactly the kind of thinking that's contributing to fucking us over as a species

 

[willitpass]

It doesn't matter what method is used. Someone is always going to find you. You're always going to involve someone

A train suicide doesn't just involve people finding you, there is someone driving that train that hits you. Meaning there is someone being forced to participate in the act of your suicide itself, completely unwillingly. Once they see you coming there is nothing they can do as the train will not stop in time. Any method that involves another person being even partially involved in the act of your death without their consent should not be used. It's the same reason jumping into traffic shouldn't be used. Not only can it kill other people by causing an accident, but the person driving that car is now involved in the act of killing you without their consent. I personally believe harm reduction for whoever will find you is important, such as setting up signs to call 911 and avoiding other being exposed to your death as much as possible. But ensuring you are not involving someone else in the act itself is far more important.

 

[Fangarina]

So I feel bad for this guy but he had a heart attack and his brain injury was from being deprived oxygen. That's not on the person who tried to ctb. The train didn't even hit the person. I personally feel if you have a heart attack from a near miss at 44 you have other extenuating issues. Probably should never have been driving a train. Do they not require annual health checks for conductors in uk?

I have a lot of insight into this (my brother is railway) and have seen first hand how it impacts train crew, which is why when I see people discussing this method I strongly try to advise against it.

All railway staff who are safety critical get medicals. Usually every other year then annually after they reach 50.
The stress on your heart when you have a near miss is difficult to describe.
In a car you can swerve, in a train all you can do is slam emergency brakes on and pray you don't see too much however that is near on impossible. You know you are hitting the person, and the sound they make going under the train is haunting and deafening.
Your body reacts very unpredictably under stress and when you are coasting along and this is suddenly in front of you - of course it will have physical repercussions. Any health condition brought on by stress like this lies solely on the circumstances it happened. You may never be in a situation you find this stressful in your life and your heart will be hunky dory for life.

I hate seeing people discuss this method,
I'm a firm believe in CTB being a solo venture and I will be at home alone when I go.
I understand not everyone has this luxury; and I also understand when you are in crisis you don't think straight so other people are the last thing on your mind.
But if it's a conscious decision; don't. Just don't.


ETA: This man had a heart attack within minutes and nearly died. So the person trying to CTB survived and nearly killed another human. I don't know how anyone can be so passive about this not being that persons fault. His whole life has changed, he has lost his career and will never be 100% ok again. So not just impacting this man by ruining his mental health, but actually full on ruining his life. Nobody should go to work and come home in an altered state for any reason!

 

[justpathetic]

A train suicide doesn't just involve people finding you, there is someone driving that train that hits you. Meaning there is someone being forced to participate in the act of your suicide itself, completely unwillingly. Once they see you coming there is nothing they can do as the train will not stop in time. Any method that involves another person being even partially involved in the act of your death without their consent should not be used. It's the same reason jumping into traffic shouldn't be used. Not only can it kill other people by causing an accident, but the person driving that car is now involved in the act of killing you without their consent. I personally believe harm reduction for whoever will find you is important, such as setting up signs to call 911 and avoiding other being exposed to your death as much as possible. But ensuring you are not involving someone else in the act itself is far more important.

Well this guy did stop in time there was no suicide then he had a heart attack and was oxygen deprived causing his brain injuries. Thing the person ctbing couldn't have foreseen. Like I said I don't personally think public ctb is a good decision but I also don't feel like it would be the fault of the ctbing person.

 

[willitpass]

Well this guy did stop in time there was no suicide then he had a heart attack and was oxygen deprived causing his brain injuries.

This doesn't discount the fact that you should not involve other un-consenting individuals in your suicide

 

[killorbekilled]

Yeah if you CTB you shouldn't force someone to unwillingly commit the act with you unless you've talked about it to them and they obliged. And yes some people will kill you if asked as mentioned in one of my previous threads.

 

[Unbolted0605]

Someone will always find a person who has ctb, but if matters are arranged correctly that person can:

- Be prepared and know what they will find
- Be a professional who is used to it and/or trained for it
- Not be involved in the actual death
- Not have to witness the actual death play out gruesomely in front of their eyes, while they are nominally at the controls, but in fact powerless to do anything about it

Analogy: imagine people used trucks more often to ctb instead of trains. Should every truck driver be fighting fit, just in case? We already have a shortage of them - train drivers too, in fact. Or not even trucks, how about just random cars. Is that okay?

Anyone ctb in front of a train should well be able to forsee that it will have an effect on the driver. Including heart attacks, sure, why not? There are heart conditions that won't show up in a physical, it's not unheard of to die of a heart attack at a young age. Or crippling guilt, leading to a decline of whatever sort you might imagine. Maybe we need all train drivers to be psychopaths but it's not currently a job requirement.

Wild that anyone could pretend this isn't true. CTB is a right imo but let's be honest about this particular method. I won't say that a desparate person is evil for this. In fact I had some serious attempts like this myself. But I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that, if I'd been successful, the driver should have just brushed it off as another day at the office and it's their own fault if they didn't.

I'm gonna put a hypothetical conversation between a train driver and his wife under a spoiler here. It's tasteless as fuck (which is the point) and not for the faint of heart, but if anyone isn't convinced about what I'm saying they can read it and think about whether it's actually plausible in all but the rarest cases.

'How was work honey?'

'Oh, nothing much happened really. Oh actually yeah, one thing, I almost forgot.

Someone jumped in front of the train and became a red water balloon! Bits flying everywhere, you shoulda seen it. We needed the windshield wipers for that one, I can tell you! Hehe. Anyway, what's for tea?'

^ Maybe 1 in 10,000 people are genuinely capable of this kind of mindset, and I'd expect most of them are in other lines of work (or prison) ^