Told my psychiatrist about my pro choice views, dumb as fuck

[bloomingdark]

So I just had an appointment with my doctor, i told him about the right to die with dignity, not just including physical illness but also mental ones.

He didn't want to listen to me and said no person can rationally commit suicide being depressed because most of the time their thoughts are wrong , i agreed to that, he told me science researched about that and it was something more logical, i agreed with all he said, even though that i agreed I told him i didn't care about science or the mental state of the person, i just cared for their choice and them being able to do it with dignity, for me , is just dumb putting a moral judgement on wether you live or die , who am I harming? Why do I have to stay in a life i don't even want? , it's just invalid because I'm not in the right mind? So what's wrong with that? What is so bad about wanting to die.? Even if you don't have reasons or you're mentally incapable, if You're capable to say you want to die why should that be questioned?

He wanted to throw me into the psychiatric hospital but talked with my mom about not leaving me alone and keep an eye on me.

It's never going to be right.

To their eyes is not acceptable,so we have to die in painful, risky ways instead.

I'm really saddened

 

[Ta555]

I've never understood this argument of "depressed people are always irrational". Like it doesn't matter if you're irrational or not. You are feeling absolutely horrible and you want it to end. That's all that matters. It's actually perfectly fucking rational. I am suffering, I want to end my suffering. What's more logical than that? Especially if treatment has been tried and failed.
Their argument is basically that suffering makes you irrational and that if you weren't depressed/anxious whatever, then you'd see you don't actually want to kill yourself. Well no duh, dumbfucks. Obviously if someone isn't depressed/anxious/suffering they wouldn't want to kill themselves. Depression, anxiety and many other illness create a lot of suffering and it's the most rational and logical thing to want to end that suffering. What's irrational if that's someone's first option right off the bat before trying to get other help but otherwise, if someone has genuinely tried to get help and get better but the suffering continues...it's the most rational thing there is. Honestly.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

To be fair, almost no therapist who wants to keep their career would ever say any support for pro-choice ideas even if they agree unless they're either really dumb or absolutely sure that nothing said in the room is being recorded. I kind of doubt somebody would agree if they're already in that profession though so they kind of have to disagree with these views or risk looking like they encourage suicide which most of us know isn't true about these views but it's highly unlikely more people would understand…

 

[Niko66]

Most psychiatrists are little more than pill pushers in my experience, I think some therapists (IE those with no license to hand out prescriptions) might while probably not agree because that might be considered as encouraging of suicide and simply not something they are meant to do at all by principle of their career, still be a bit more understanding about this kind of conversations and actually be willing to engage with you without being condescending assholes. Probably like finding an unicorn but a bit more possible than the psychos I've met on psychiatry.

 

[NobodyKnowsMe]

I stopped talking about my depression and such to anyone in the medical field many years ago. I got tired of pretending with them and not a damn one of them can fix me.

 

[rationaldeath]

Psychiatry ultimately defines mental illnesses in terms of social dysfunction. Suicide goes against social norms and is disruptive to society, so psychiatrists are compelled to take a stance against it.

 

[Zzzzz]

Quack Doctor.Ah yes, depressed people who feel sad about living in a predatory system of evolution have "wrong" thoughts about life. No, the average person needs to take the blinders off their eyes. The science does not disagree at all.

 

[Dontwantcantwant96]

I worked out the other day that (in my opinion) suicide is discouraged particularly at a young age because it counters capitalism. The whole time you're alive you need money, in a capitalist society you have to work for money, that means even if you're struggling most people will still at least work so they can just keep you running around like a little worker bee helping pump the capitalist system and that's why suicide is looked down on, because the more people who decide to leave early the less people there is to work. I told a few professionals my views on suicide (similar to yours) and I think some of them kind of got it to be honest, but obviously where like we have a job to do and that's prevent you from harming yourself which I mean fair enough. So I think it's just ingrained in society that suicide =bad because realistically (and this is going to make me sound a bit mental) but I think anyone that understands that actually you should have free reign over when you want to die and that mental suffering is as bad as physical suffering means that actually you've reached a higher level of consciousness in understanding what life is. Obviously if you've had a fine life with no mental health issues and then you have a week out of that perfect life where you feel a bit down and decide to kill yourself, then that's dumb. But that's not the case for most of us here. Like there's a few people who clearly have a negative mindset but from most peoples posts they've given 'getting better' a damn good go. Also (and this is going to sound even more mental) but I personally believe that bodies and our consciousness are just vessels for souls and realistically due to modern technology etc people are staying alive longer now than they would have done at the very start and some people don't need 80+ years to learn their soul lessons back when this all started they might have died of cholera or some shit when they were like 14

 

[braindead91]

Honestly they can't accept the fact that we are only animals. That's what it is. They want to treat every human as some type of special entity that is to be preserved at all costs no matter how much they are suffering. Not only that but they are probably told to make sure no one sees suicide as rational because of wage slavery and who is going to pay taxes if they are dead. It's pathetic.
Honestly they can't accept the fact that we are only animals. That's what it is. They want to treat every human as some type of special entity that is to be preserved at all costs no matter how much they are suffering. Not only that but they are probably told to make sure no one sees suicide as rational because of wage slavery and who is going to pay taxes if they are dead. It's pathetic

 

[WorthlessTrash]

Of course he said that. If any of his patients would be dead, he wouldn't get paid.

 

[Weebster]

My doctors have all agreed with me because I pay them to like Marty Byrd.

 

[Zzzzz]

I worked out the other day that (in my opinion) suicide is discouraged particularly at a young age because it counters capitalism. The whole time you're alive you need money, in a capitalist society you have to work for money, that means even if you're struggling most people will still at least work so they can just keep you running around like a little worker bee helping pump the capitalist system and that's why suicide is looked down on, because the more people who decide to leave early the less people there is to work. I told a few professionals my views on suicide (similar to yours) and I think some of them kind of got it to be honest, but obviously where like we have a job to do and that's prevent you from harming yourself which I mean fair enough. So I think it's just ingrained in society that suicide =bad because realistically (and this is going to make me sound a bit mental) but I think anyone that understands that actually you should have free reign over when you want to die and that mental suffering is as bad as physical suffering means that actually you've reached a higher level of consciousness in understanding what life is. Obviously if you've had a fine life with no mental health issues and then you have a week out of that perfect life where you feel a bit down and decide to kill yourself, then that's dumb. But that's not the case for most of us here. Like there's a few people who clearly have a negative mindset but from most peoples posts they've given 'getting better' a damn good go. Also (and this is going to sound even more mental) but I personally believe that bodies and our consciousness are just vessels for souls and realistically due to modern technology etc people are staying alive longer now than they would have done at the very start and some people don't need 80+ years to learn their soul lessons back when this all started they might have died of cholera or some shit when they were like 14

I believe mental or psychological suffering is just as unbearable as physical pain.

 

[Dontwantcantwant96]

I believe mental or psychological suffering is just as unbearable as physical pain.

I agree, in some cases worse because trying to explain what's happening in your head is so hard

 

[NobodyKnowsMe]

trying to explain what's happening in your head is so hard

This ^^ OMFG, so much this.

 

[24601]

Psychiatry ultimately defines mental illnesses in terms of social dysfunction. Suicide goes against social norms and is disruptive to society, so psychiatrists are compelled to take a stance against it.

This right here

 

[Klo]

So I just had an appointment with my doctor, i told him about the right to die with dignity, not just including physical illness but also mental ones.

He didn't want to listen to me and said no person can rationally commit suicide being depressed because most of the time their thoughts are wrong , i agreed to that, he told me science researched about that and it was something more logical, i agreed with all he said, even though that i agreed I told him i didn't care about science or the mental state of the person, i just cared for their choice and them being able to do it with dignity, for me , is just dumb putting a moral judgement on wether you live or die , who am I harming? Why do I have to stay in a life i don't even want? , it's just invalid because I'm not in the right mind? So what's wrong with that? What is so bad about wanting to die.? Even if you don't have reasons or you're mentally incapable, if You're capable to say you want to die why should that be questioned?

He wanted to throw me into the psychiatric hospital but talked with my mom about not leaving me alone and keep an eye on me.

It's never going to be right.

To their eyes is not acceptable,so we have to die in painful, risky ways instead.

I'm really saddened

Sorry you are dealing with this. It is very important to be careful what you say to drs because they will intervene with "care" you might not want. One of my biggest regrets is ever talking with or being truthful some people. The only reason to ever discuss suicide with them is if you want them to put you away

 

[Weebster]

ever boink your therapist? I had one who was interested.

 

[Justnotme]

So I just had an appointment with my doctor, i told him about the right to die with dignity, not just including physical illness but also mental ones.

He didn't want to listen to me and said no person can rationally commit suicide being depressed because most of the time their thoughts are wrong , i agreed to that, he told me science researched about that and it was something more logical, i agreed with all he said, even though that i agreed I told him i didn't care about science or the mental state of the person, i just cared for their choice and them being able to do it with dignity, for me , is just dumb putting a moral judgement on wether you live or die , who am I harming? Why do I have to stay in a life i don't even want? , it's just invalid because I'm not in the right mind? So what's wrong with that? What is so bad about wanting to die.? Even if you don't have reasons or you're mentally incapable, if You're capable to say you want to die why should that be questioned?

He wanted to throw me into the psychiatric hospital but talked with my mom about not leaving me alone and keep an eye on me.

It's never going to be right.

To their eyes is not acceptable,so we have to die in painful, risky ways instead.

I'm really saddened

I'm really sorry that you had to listen to this from your doctor. Sometimes it seems to me that 99% of psychologists are some kind of programmed people in this cruel world, sent to restrain us, suffering people, so that we feed the world with suffering. I would have sent this "doctor" to fuck

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

To be fair, almost no therapist who wants to keep their career would ever say any support for pro-choice ideas even if they agree unless they're either really dumb or absolutely sure that nothing said in the room is being recorded. I kind of doubt somebody would agree if they're already in that profession though so they kind of have to disagree with these views or risk looking like they encourage suicide which most of us know isn't true about these views but it's highly unlikely more people would understand…

Its true. They have no room to have their own opinion on things like that.

I agree, in some cases worse because trying to explain what's happening in your head is so hard

I used to think this, but I don't anymore. I think explaining whats happening in your head is easy, the hard part is finding anyone in medicine who will accept it.

Psychiatry ultimately defines mental illnesses in terms of social dysfunction. Suicide goes against social norms and is disruptive to society, so psychiatrists are compelled to take a stance against it.

This is an excellent summary.

 

[wljourney]

Interesting. I'm sorry you had this experience.

I just had a very similar experience with my psychiatrist (who is rabidly against medical assistance in dying MAID).
Dismissive, judgemental, uninformed about what exactly she was "objecting" to, knee-jerk reaction of "but you haven't tried ECT yet".

However, I also had a really positive experience talking to my GP who acknowledged that MAID is a legal treatment option and will support my application to be assessed when eligible. (not sure if I'll make it until then though)

Currently about 75% of doctors in Canada oppose MAID for people with mental illness. Even fewer would be willing to assess a patient solely suffering from MH illness.

IMO this is going to be a very lengthy process of changing perceptions, educating healthcare providers and society as a whole.
I'm talking years. Maybe decades until MAID is acknowledged as a healthcare/treatment option.

SN and N seem to be easier to access than legal, medical assistance in dying.
Which is sad, but that's where we are at today.

 

[FuneralCry]

It seems like in this world, many people do not respect the right to die. It is our life and our decision and the way that I see it, it is cruel to try to force people to live against their wishes. Life is completely meaningless after all and we will all die eventually someday. Euthanasia should be legalised everywhere and no one should have to resort to risky methods to end their suffering. We have no obligations to stay alive as we did not ask to exist. Even the anti choice people could become suicidal one day and then they would want a peaceful exit.

 

[Glowarm]

He didn't want to listen to me and said no person can rationally commit suicide being depressed because most of the time their thoughts are wrong

In my opinion, your thoughts are Never wrong. Your thoughts are just that, they are your thoughts. I don't like when psychiatrist's or doctor's say that your thoughts are wrong. I feel like they are trying to shame me simply because I think differently than they do. Thinking differently should never be looked at as wrong.
I'm sorry that you had to experience that.

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

knee-jerk reaction of "but you haven't tried ECT yet".

I fucking hate this. "but you haven't tried permanently damaging your brain"

 

[wljourney]

In my opinion, your thoughts are Never wrong. Your thoughts are just that, they are your thoughts. I don't like when psychiatrist's or doctor's say that your thoughts are wrong. I feel like they are trying to shame me simply because I think differently than they do. Thinking differently should never be looked at as wrong.
I'm sorry that you had to experience that.

What the psychiatrist likely said was that people with depression often struggle with cognitive distortions.

The assumption is that people with depression perceive reality differently.

HOWEVER The problem with this generalization is that often healthcare providers will dismiss ALL and ANY true and valid concerns or experiences of people with depression, chalking it up to "cognitive distortion".

They can't (or wont) recognize that in many situations the patient's experience or view is true and based on reality.

The dilemma is: how do you distinguish one from the other?

When do you believe that a patient's experience is real and when it is distorted.

IMO most of the time patients are dismissed just because it's easier and there just isn't enough time to investigate further.

Meanwhile the experience for the patient doesn't change. Because this is their reality.

I fucking hate this. "but you haven't tried permanently damaging your brain"

Exactly

And yes, I have. It was a trial for rTMS (ECT light) and it fucked me over completely.

Psychiatrists (or any doctor really) have no problem prescribing drugs and therapies as long as THEY don't have to take them.

If we forced medical professionals to simultaneously go through the very same treatments and live with the same consequences things would look VERY very different.

 

[archipelago]

Interesting. I'm sorry you had this experience.

I just had a very similar experience with my psychiatrist (who is rabidly against medical assistance in dying MAID).
Dismissive, judgemental, uninformed about what exactly she was "objecting" to, knee-jerk reaction of "but you haven't tried ECT yet".

However, I also had a really positive experience talking to my GP who acknowledged that MAID is a legal treatment option and will support my application to be assessed when eligible. (not sure if I'll make it until then though)

Currently about 75% of doctors in Canada oppose MAID for people with mental illness. Even fewer would be willing to assess a patient solely suffering from MH illness.

IMO this is going to be a very lengthy process of changing perceptions, educating healthcare providers and society as a whole.
I'm talking years. Maybe decades until MAID is acknowledged as a healthcare/treatment option.

SN and N seem to be easier to access than legal, medical assistance in dying.
Which is sad, but that's where we are at today.

What the hell? They were literally surprised that you didn't want to fry your brain and risk memory loss etc? They were surprised that you didn't want an invasive treatment? That's disgusting on so many levels. I'm really sorry you had to deal with that. I honestly have no other words. Smh.

Psychiatrists (or any doctor really) have no problem prescribing drugs and therapies as long as THEY don't have to take them.

If we forced medical professionals to simultaneously go through the very same treatments and live with the same consequences things would look VERY very different.

This is exactly why I find the opinions of people who try to pass off what they consider an acceptable risk to others without having to face said risk, completely irrelevant. I can't tell you how much happier I felt when I understood that lol

 

[wljourney]

What the hell? They were literally surprised that you didn't want to fry your brain and risk memory loss etc? They were surprised that you didn't want an invasive treatment?

Thank you and yes.

She couldn't understand why I wouldn't want to at least TRY and fry my brain before choosing death.

What struck me was that just the day after I listened to a law professor and her project about "Human Rights in Mental Healthcare" (or the lack thereof) and one of the examples was…

Predominantly older women are consistently being coerced by physicians to get ECT, despite KNOWN risks.

However when I asked my doctor about the risk/benefit profile of her suggested therapies (Ketamine and ECT) she couldn't tell me.

Knowing the risk/benefit of a drug or treatment is quite literally the BASIC expectation of a prescribing doctor.

She really shouldn't be practicing.

 

[archipelago]

Thank you and yes.

She couldn't understand why I wouldn't want to at least TRY and fry my brain before choosing death.

What struck me was that just the day after I listened to a law professor and her project about "Human Rights in Mental Healthcare" (or the lack thereof) and one of the examples was…

Predominantly older women are consistently being coerced by physicians to get ECT, despite KNOWN risks.

However when I asked my doctor about the risk/benefit profile of her suggested therapies (Ketamine and ECT) she couldn't tell me.

Knowing the risk/benefit of a drug or treatment is quite literally the BASIC expectation of a prescribing doctor.

She really shouldn't be practicing.

That's abhorrent on so many levels. JFC the lack of self-awareness...

I would accept if a doctor was honest and said they weren't well aware of certain risks, but that they would look into it or refer me to someone else who is more knowledgeable. I have had this experience before and I respect when they are honest about it. But to tout something invasive, drastic and that had a long history of being used to abuse patients in asylums as 'I don't know the risks but just go with it' is wildly dangerous. It's irresponsible.

You're absolutely right, she shouldn't be practicing.

Something I've come to realize is that while most people think of doctors as the ones who are most knowledgeable about medications, it's actually pharmacists that truly are. Their role is often downplayed, which begs the question of why doctors can prescribe things they aren't experts in.

 

[wljourney]

That's abhorrent on so many levels. JFC the lack of self-awareness...

I would accept if a doctor was honest and said they weren't well aware of certain risks, but that they would look into it or refer me to someone else who is more knowledgeable. I have had this experience before and I respect when they are honest about it. But to tout something invasive, drastic and that had a long history of being used to abuse patients in asylums as 'I don't know the risks but just go with it' is wildly dangerous. It's irresponsible.

You're absolutely right, she shouldn't be practicing.

Something I've come to realize is that while most people think of doctors as the ones who are most knowledgeable about medications, it's actually pharmacists that truly are. Their role is often downplayed, which begs the question of why doctors can prescribe things they aren't experts in.

Yes! So much this!
Pharmacists are absolutely much better informed and I feel they don't have the prescription-bias that many doctors have. They also don't have the god-complex that makes doctors think they are infallible.

And yes, she shouldn't be practicing. While I speak up, there are 100 other patients who will do whatever she suggests without question.

If I didn't need her to Rx my maintenance meds I would be writing a letter, trust me.

 

[Life'sA6itch]

So I just had an appointment with my doctor, i told him about the right to die with dignity, not just including physical illness but also mental ones.

He didn't want to listen to me and said no person can rationally commit suicide being depressed because most of the time their thoughts are wrong , i agreed to that, he told me science researched about that and it was something more logical, i agreed with all he said, even though that i agreed I told him i didn't care about science or the mental state of the person, i just cared for their choice and them being able to do it with dignity, for me , is just dumb putting a moral judgement on wether you live or die , who am I harming? Why do I have to stay in a life i don't even want? , it's just invalid because I'm not in the right mind? So what's wrong with that? What is so bad about wanting to die.? Even if you don't have reasons or you're mentally incapable, if You're capable to say you want to die why should that be questioned?

He wanted to throw me into the psychiatric hospital but talked with my mom about not leaving me alone and keep an eye on me.

It's never going to be right.

To their eyes is not acceptable,so we have to die in painful, risky ways instead.

I'm really saddened

Your thoughts are not wrong because you are depressed. Fire that a-hole

 

[Pidgeons_Sparrows]

"most of the time their thoughts are wrong"
uuh... so why are they wrong? because they just are or? god people like this piss me off
rational suicide is very real
not every suicide is an impulsive tragedy that was commited by someone who just had a bad day
im not going to kill myself because i have a bad day, im going to because ive had a bad life MY ENTIRE LIFE IS ONE BIG BAD DAY