"threatening" suicide, need advice

[nembutal]

in the past i have told loved ones, usually partners, that i would be more prone to suicide if they were ever to abandon me. when i say phrases like that i dont speak out of malice or an attempt to keep the person around, rather i just speak out of honesty and a desire to keep my thoughts uncensored. ive been told that this behavior is manipulative but i cant wrap my head around those words having any ill intent behind them. people appreciate honesty, especially in romantic relationships, so that is what i give them. it would also be very difficult to suppress this type of thought as it is at the forefront of my issues. is my behavior wrong? i am asking out of a desire to improve myself.

 

[noaccount]

Nah its the truth.

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

The majority of people do seem to think that behaviour is manipulative, but I honestly disagree with their assessment. When you care about someone a lot, then they say they're going to leave your life forever and never contact you again, of course you are going to experience intense emotional pain, similar to grief.

This can push someone to the brink of suicide, especially if they only had a meager amount of people in their life to begin with, only to lose a crucial supporting figure suddenly. Suffering a loss is a big driver for suicidality in many people, it does not mean that someone is malicious, manipulative, attention seeking, lying, and so on and so forth for them to voice how deep that pain has cut them.

I think people might view these words as maleficent or ill intentioned becase the default belief in our society is that expressing suicidality in the context of another person's actions is akin to making a serious threat against them. A lot of people characterise talking about suicide as an action done for strategic/persuasive purposes, i.e. one has something to gain, like making a partner stay with them so the other party wouldn't harbor the guilt of feeling responsible for a suicide.

In reality, lots of people are simply being honest that ending up in a worse situation due to someone's else's decisions does makes them feel MORE suicidal, and you are not playing mind games like the majority thinks. While it is a very unpopular stance to take, I don't think expressing one's pain like this is bad behavior. However, as I mentioned before, many people will not see eye to eye with you and me on this, so if you want to discuss these topics you have to sort of censor and hold back your true feelings.

Instead of telling someone the lack of their specific company makes you feel more suicidal, it is more productive to say that loneliness or isolation heightens those emotions. People don't like to feel responsible for the wellbeing of others, as unfortunate as that fact is, so if they are told directly that their presence is vital for your happiness, it might be too much for some individuals to bear.

love your aiko pfp btw

 

[bijou]

i think the concept of manipulation depends on context…even then when we do these "manipulative" behaviours they often aren't intended to be. if you are in an argument with someone and jump to "im gonna kms!!!" yelling in their face…that makes the other person feel they can't express their genuine emotions to you either. it absolutely can be an intentional method of shutting the argument down and avoiding it for some.

i think we have to remember the concept of mortality and death is very jarring to many people. no one wants to think they're at fault or feel they have blood on their hands. that's why it can be perceived as "manipulative"

however, suicide and suicidal thinking can be an extreme effort to problem solve. if someone hates us or the people we care about leave us, and we are prone to those thoughts it makes complete sense we'd jump to ctb as a solution so quickly. empathy is required on both sides for people to move forward productively.

 

[noname223]

I cannot really judge that I had to know yourself in real life to evaluate something like that. It is pretty difficult when it is solely based on a post. There are probably many variables and it depends on the context.

I read in literature that they say some people with borderline personality tend to setting up double bind relationships. They described it as manipulation.

It is has been a while I read it so take my words with a grain of salt. I want to emphasize that not all people with that disorder fit into that stereotype. Some have it under control.

My personal question for you would be do you might have a personality disorder? I read many link certain disorders to manipulative behavior. Whether that applies to you I am unable to answer though.

 

[exhaustedanonymous]

empathy is required on both sides for people to move forward productively.

I think this is really the key. Obviously it's hard for someone to not be able to properly express their emotions, especially ones that are darker, to someone they trust and care about because it could come off as malicious or such; but if you understand the other perspective, it's horrible to think someone's death was *your fault*, and then if a situation arises in which they're being actively hurt by the other party, the guilt of what would happen and the pain of what is happening makes everything just horrible. People take advantage of that anguish and actually do threaten suicide with little intention of doing it to make people stay, which is obviously a horrible thing to do to someone, but I guess that's why it gets hard to see if saying things like that is actually manipulative or not.. I don't really know. Someone left me recently for not doing well mentally and I don't blame them for it. It just really sucks for me though.

 

[ughnvm]

i understand that you're being honest but they're right too, it is manipulative. imo it's better to cut those relationship(sorry if im being rude) rather than forcing them. and for you, don't get so attached with people, most of them probably don't worth it, if they do time really can fade them away both from your life and heart

 

[jamie_]

Of fucked up things you can do to a partner it ranks pretty highly. Probably best to avoid saying anything along the lines of "if you break up with me then x" whilst still in a relationship. Just say they mean the world to you and how much you cherish them. Don't play out scenarios with them about breaking up if you don't want to break up – it's a pretty surefire way to – you guessed it – break up. If they still toss you aside, use you, ruin your life, don't give a fuck about you and make you suicidal then that's on them and welcome to my world. But idk, I guessed I never realised until it happened. I made them feel trapped afterwards anyway as I acted suicidal rather than threatening it so I can't really talk. – Who am I kidding they just used that to make me withhold my emotions rather than ever get answers. Likewise, fairly obvious they hold zero feeling towards me nevermind pressure or emotional trapping. Don't manipulate ffs, it ruins lives.

 

[nembutal]

Of fucked up things you can do to a partner it ranks pretty highly. Probably best to avoid saying anything along the lines of "if you break up with me then x" whilst still in a relationship. Just say they mean the world to you and how much you cherish them. Don't play out scenarios with them about breaking up if you don't want to break up – it's a pretty surefire way to – you guessed it – break up. If they still toss you aside, use you, ruin your life, don't give a fuck about you and make you suicidal then that's on them and welcome to my world. But idk, I guessed I never realised until it happened. I made them feel trapped afterwards anyway as I acted suicidal rather than threatening it so I can't really talk. – Who am I kidding they just used that to make me withhold my emotions rather than ever get answers. Likewise, fairly obvious they hold zero feeling towards me nevermind pressure or emotional trapping. Don't manipulate ffs, it ruins lives.

the rant you went on about yourself makes no sense to me. but i'll reply to the other parts. again, i am never manipulative on purpose. people tell us to share our feelings freely so that is what i do. im not sure if im autistic or something and unable to recognize how my words affect other people. i know i'm not a narcissist because i have no respect for myself. i guess it's best to keep these thoughts hidden no matter how much the other party encourages you to "talk to them".

 

[noname223]

the rant you went on about yourself makes no sense to me. but i'll reply to the other parts. again, i am never manipulative on purpose. people tell us to share our feelings freely so that is what i do. im not sure if im autistic or something and unable to recognize how my words affect other people. i know i'm not a narcissist because i have no respect for myself. i guess it's best to keep these thoughts hidden no matter how much the other party encourages you to "talk to them".

Personally talking about my suicidality with friends helped a lot. They are quite compassionate. At the same time I never threatened to commit suicide or at least they did not perceive it as such. Opening about it was a relief for me.

 

[necrolatry]

being honest about this is the right way to approach the situation, but you also cannot blame people for being unable to handle this well. i can imagine that people will perceive it as some kind of responsibility that you are giving them, maybe that's where the manipulation accusation comes from.

i think staying honest is the right way and explicitly mention that this isn't an attempt to force them to stay with you. after all, this can also be meant & perceived positively, like the other person being very meaningful to you.

 

[heyrabu]

I've done "if u do x i'll do y" in relationship before and yeah it ruins the relationship so bad i still get nightmares about it. I regrets it so much. I felt like i've trapped my partner so much that they feel suffocated and they ends up leaving me behind and it hurts so badly, but at that moment i cant ctb because i've had responsibilities to be taken care of... And so time goes on and life goes around. I've learned my lesson about not being too honest about my feelings to people close to me

 

[jamie_]

the rant you went on about yourself makes no sense to me. but i'll reply to the other parts. again, i am never manipulative on purpose. people tell us to share our feelings freely so that is what i do. im not sure if im autistic or something and unable to recognize how my words affect other people. i know i'm not a narcissist because i have no respect for myself. i guess it's best to keep these thoughts hidden no matter how much the other party encourages you to "talk to them".

manipulative people probably don't even realise they are being manipulative. likewise, narcissistic behavior can come from a place of self-hatred – not that I think you are, I don't know you. but what you described is straight up emotional manipulation. might come from a place of love, weakness, mental illness, whatever but it doesn't mean it isn't. you are at least receptive and are willing to acknowledge this though hence your thread. that's commendable and you are better than most people.

 

[nopointinlivingg]

people appreciate honesty, especially in romantic relationships

Unfortunately in my experience this is untrue. People don't want honesty, they want to hear whatever will make them feel superior or comfortable. If they tell you they want honesty it's usually just during an instance where they need to be right or hold something over you. Honesty is what has lost me every "friend" I've ever had. I spent my whole life thinking honesty and open communication were the keys to healthy friendships and relationships, and maybe they are, but nobody actually wants that.

 

[lionetta12]

in the past i have told loved ones, usually partners, that i would be more prone to suicide if they were ever to abandon me. when i say phrases like that i dont speak out of malice or an attempt to keep the person around, rather i just speak out of honesty and a desire to keep my thoughts uncensored. ive been told that this behavior is manipulative but i cant wrap my head around those words having any ill intent behind them. people appreciate honesty, especially in romantic relationships, so that is what i give them. it would also be very difficult to suppress this type of thought as it is at the forefront of my issues. is my behavior wrong? i am asking out of a desire to improve myself.

I've opened up in some of my relationships over time about how I'm suicidal and have been for many years, but I've never told any of them that I'd be more prone to suicide if they left me, however, every guy I've been with has told me that they'd suicide if I left them, which often made me feel trapped with them as they'd start abusing me soon after and I felt too bad about leaving them because I don't want to cause anyone to suicide. I take suicidal thinking seriously and I don't want to inflict that on anybody, it feels horrible so I stay and let them abuse me so that they can continue to live.

 

[Disaster]

It's not a fair thing to say. No, being honest is not a merit of itself, honesty is not a good thing just for the sake of honesty. Saying cruel things just because they are true is not a right thing to do. If you do consider yourself a capable adult able of making decision about your own life (including not continuing said life), certainly you're responsible for treating other people right.
Let's imagine a hypothetical situation where someone says:
- I would CTB if you'd ever abandon me
Let's imagine an honest response, which (if the person wasn't stunned) would be likely something like:
- Wow, I never planned to, but now I feel kinda trapped. I doubt I would ever enter this relationship if breaking up would mean you CTB.
Now the other person, who dared to respond honestly, may find a literal corpse of a loved one and may have to cope with immense feelings of guilt. For just being honest! Just the fear of such a scenario, not to mention actually having to go through it, would be an awful thing and I find no proper reason to inflict it on anyone, and especially a loved one.

 

[valkyrie]

i've said it and it never helps even though it feels like the truth to me
if anything it seems to make them colder to me because they get angry that i'm putting them into that kind of emotional position.
but i guess i'll probably end up saying it again when my current partner tries to abandon me because im unstable and suicidal without them
he knows to expect it so it's ok i guess
he has also abused my other emotional pleas of doing anything for him to stay

 

[chloramine]

I can hear that you don't mean badly, but that puts the other person in an unfair position. They might feel like they have to stay with you just because they don't want you to kill yourself. Two people staying together for that reason isn't good for anyone.

I think it would be possible to find other ways to communicate the message that you care about them and it would hurt to lose them.

 

[cassxtho]

If you're not doing it to be manipulative, then I don't think you're a bad person. But if you're saying something conditional like "if you leave me, I'll do x" then even if its unintentional it is wrong. If you're on the verge and you reach out for help or accidentally hint at it, I don't think that is wrong if it's somebody you're close to.

 

[frog_prince]

you did the right thing, it's risky and you are so brave because telling other people about suicidal thought is never easy
i hope you have a good relationship

 

[ThomasJ]

words can be manipulative, even if you don't intend them to be.

Obviously saying that you'll end your life if someone leaves you, will put enormous pressure on them to stay even if they don't want to. This is true even if you actually mean it, and it also doesn't matter if you say the words with the ulterior goal of keeping your partner tied to you.

I believe you when you say that you don't have ill intentions, truly. It's just an unfortunate fact of life that suicidality fucks with relationships in major ways, this being one of them. So yes, it's manipulative. Even if you never intended it that way.

There are other things you can say instead though. The same message can be less manipulative if you frame it in a positive light. You could say something like "thanks for staying with me, it's really helping me stay grounded".
Arguably, the message of "if you leave I'll probably die" is still in there. But it won't feel like it. And your partner can probably process it better that way. So maybe just try saying that instead.

 

[AllMyDreams]

I've threatened to kill myself if my partner left me. I didn't intend it to be manipulative, I truly did rely on him for my survival and reason for living. But from his perspective, I was essentially blackmailing him, and taking away his free will to end the relationship.

It's not your fault. But I'd try to move away from it. Just as a person's free will to ctb is important, as it the free will of others to be in relationships, or not, of their choosing.

 

[nembutal]

bumping this for more responses

 

[cryone]

i think it really depends on how you express it. if you do it purely for honesty, I see nothing wrong. if you do it as a way to guilt trip or blackmail, then its abusive.

 

[penguinl0v3s]

in the past i have told loved ones, usually partners, that i would be more prone to suicide if they were ever to abandon me. when i say phrases like that i dont speak out of malice or an attempt to keep the person around, rather i just speak out of honesty and a desire to keep my thoughts uncensored. ive been told that this behavior is manipulative but i cant wrap my head around those words having any ill intent behind them. people appreciate honesty, especially in romantic relationships, so that is what i give them. it would also be very difficult to suppress this type of thought as it is at the forefront of my issues. is my behavior wrong? i am asking out of a desire to improve myself.

You shouldn't because it guilts them into sticking around when they want to. Be a magnet, not a rope. Make people want to be around you rather than trying to forcibly drag them over to you. Being honest is good, but not when it pressures people into doing something they would not normally want to do.

i think it really depends on how you express it. if you do it purely for honesty, I see nothing wrong. if you do it as a way to guilt trip or blackmail, then its abusive.

I don't think there's a way to express it in a way that doesn't guilt the other person into staying to some degree. Most people want to prevent suicide. OP is probably talking about pro-life irls.

i think it really depends on how you express it. if you do it purely for honesty, I see nothing wrong. if you do it as a way to guilt trip or blackmail, then its abusive.

I don't think there's a way to express it in a way that doesn't guilt the other person into staying to some degree. Most people want to prevent suicide. OP is probably talking about pro-life irls.

 

[thirdrailer]

I think it really depends on context. If you were having a forthright conversation about your mental health already and bring this up as something to be managed, I don't think that would be manipulation necessarily. If it's brought up in the context of the health of the relationship, however, I think it could have the effect of manipulation even if none is intended.