Discussion Thoughts on Communism, Socialism, and Capitalism? [Megathread]

[Dysgenic Pup]

Just interested. I only expect civilized, level-headed discussion to ensue in this thread.

 

[Enigmatic Sailor]

Bleeding heart, die-hard, red-blooded capitalist here. I'm willing to die on this God blessed hill.

 

[Dysgenic Pup]

Bleeding heart, die-hard, red-blooded capitalist here. I'm willing to die on this God blessed hill.

Damn right. Rather be dead than red.

 

[Red Scare]

Critics of socialism/communism love to trot out a 100 million death toll but can not substantiate that with any credible source.

Meanwhile, capitalism kills nearly 100 million people every ten years! This is independently verifiable, just look at the death toll for how many people die each year because they lack food, or clean water, or healthcare and then multiply by 10. And yet they will vehemently defend capitalism at all costs.

Haven't you heard communists were worse than hitler, and Catholicism combined! They literally (lit-er-ally!) chained everyone up to a radiator, so they couldn't escape, and then starved them near to death!

The ussr gave everyone housing, healthcare, tuition free schooling, and a jobs guarantee, but DiDn'T yOu KnOW tHaT cOmMuNiStS aTe BaBiEs????

 

[Enigmatic Sailor]

Rather be dead than red.

That's what I want to hear! Communists/socialists want to take this away from you...

 

[Red Scare]

That's what I want to hear! Communists/socialists want to take this away from you...

Yeah that is so much better than nationalized infrastructure, and industry, where things are produced at no more than it costs to produce the initial goods, and there is no profit motive. I am so glad a gallon of gas costs $5.00, and a house costs close to one mil. That's much better than free public housing, and tuition free colleges. I love my student debt

 

[Foresight]

I've found that I've always been too dumb to form an opinion.

I can't form opinions unless I have an in depth understanding and I don't have enough energy, time, or intelligence to ever know what I think about all this.

 

[chocolatebar]

I like the communist ideas, but I think they are stuck in time and need to be reworked for a globalized and networked world. The means of production aren't only physical anymore. Big companies found ways to take the surplus value even from people who have their own means of production, like drivers, merchants, programmers, etc. The industrial production shifted to extremely specific products instead of simpler basic items. Social media also changed a lot of things in all areas, among many other changes.
The world has changed and I think the communist manifesto has to change as well

 

[katara]

I'm not really a fan of the whole communism vs capitalist debate because I think both have shitty outcomes, but i do agree with some socialist stuff. I think healthcare should be cheaper and I think women deserve maternity leave. I think it is weird how conservatives say women are only good for making babies but meanwhile they never want to give women maternity leave.

 

[Enigmatic Sailor]

@Heavenly Pup Thoughts on me instating a theocracy in place for the global order?

 

[Dysgenic Pup]

@Heavenly Pup Thoughts on me instating a theocracy in place for the global order?

You know I have always been in support of your theocratic endeavors.

 

[Red Scare]

I've found that I've always been too dumb to form an opinion.

I can't form opinions unless I have an in depth understanding and I don't have enough energy, time, or intelligence to ever know what I think about all this.

Communism basics 101:

There's no private property, all property is held in common.

In practice this means there are no private corporations, or industries, or utilities, etc. All factories, utilities, farms, and pretty much anything else that is exploited in capitalism to generate as much profit as it can, is collectively owned and democratically operated. Without a profit motive, all goods can be produced at cost, for no more resources than they take to produce, and people don't get charged a premium or a mark up for the service. In fact, everyone is provided that stuff for free.

Housing, healthcare, universities, utilities, is all free. Food is accessible to everyone. Jobs are guaranteed. You will never have student debt, or trouble finding work in the field you study for. If you don't want to go to school, then you can still find meaningful work in the community.

Generally everyone is required to work. This is considered a public service, and communal good. Refusal to work is seen as an offense, and you may be punished with manual labor with other criminals. Those who are disabled or can't work are still given healthcare and housing.

The more automation there is, the more people are freed from remedial labor.

Eventually all class distinctions will vanish and society is entirely egalitarian.

Capitalists and religious agitators can be punished for spreading disharmony and disunion. Nothing drives people apart like capitalism and religion, so they are outlawed.

I think that is everything. Only a few countries have ever attempted to put anything like this into practice. They are almost always at war with the west, who motivated by capitalism, despises and wants to crush their very existence. Cuba and the USSR are two such places. They've had varying degrees of success. The USSR had the worlds best doctors, and physicists, with a space program that rivaled NASA. Cuba today still has the world's best doctors. They have been limited in the speed and ability to develop some technologies, because they were put into an embargo by the western capitalist nations. But this didn't stop them from accomplishing a lot, and at one point the CIA released a report saying that soviets ate better than Americans at the time.

Capitalist pigs, I mean apologists, like to say that they locked everyone up in forced labor concentration camps (an obvious lie), without batting an eye at the fact that the USA has the largest prison population on earth. They also cite a totally bogus and unsubstantiated death toll (100 million by some fraudulent accounts), without making reference to the fact that capitalism kills 100 million people every 10 years because they can't afford food, or water, or medical care.

Were there corrupt officials and people in socialist countries? Yes, but that usually just entailed using your position to sneak an extra portion of caviar. This is nothing compared to the USA where politicians are bought and sold, and that goes to war simply because military contractors need to sell tanks.

They like to point out china and say this is representative of communism without telling you China is not actually socialist, and they certainly aren't communist (classless and egalitarian). That they have billionaires, and private property, and haven't nationalized the infrastructure. Also that they abandoned Marxism, in favor of Maoism.

I think that's mostly everything.

 

[Kurinoy]

My country is ruined because of the corruption and drug trafficking but the government always had a socialist/communist position and it made me feel disgusted towards the "left". It's what I feel.

 

[Red Scare]

My country is ruined because of the corruption and drug trafficking but the government always had a socialist/communist position and it made me feel disgusted towards the "left". It's what I feel.

Corruption and drugs have ruined a lot of capitalist nations. If they weren't so corrupt, they might legalize/regulate drugs, and then there wouldn't be any illegal profits to be had in drug dealing.

Do you mind if I ask what country you come from?

 

[Kurinoy]

Corruption and drugs have ruined a lot of capitalist nations. If they weren't so corrupt, they might legalize drugs, and then there wouldn't be any illegal profits to be had in drug dealing.

Do you mind if I ask what country you come from?

I'm from Venezuela. I left the country in 2017.

The government just rejected all the humanitarian help other countries offered them... So unfair.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I like my stuff. To me, the only appeal of communism to me is to spite people who have more stuff than me. I'm not knocking it, but I wish more people would just admit that it only seems better because most people who like it think it will give them more instead of less.

I don't think I could accept living under communism or socialism anyway but I don't know or care enough to logically argue against it. If the regime comes for me before I'm already dead I'll just do what my great grandfather did and kill myself just like he did once the Chinese Communist Party took the land that had been in our family for generations. I don't have any land now but I do have some neat collector stuff.

I'm also one of those people who'd be the best argument against communism because if there was any form of universal income or any other form of wealth equality then I'd be the shining example of the straw man argument where I'd do zero work and leech off the government in every way I could. I already kind of do that to an extent with various programs California provides but you can bet if it became more expansive I'd be using it even more selfishly. Good thing that probably won't happen anytime soon or at least not before I intend to CTB anyway.

Capitalism also stinks but I just don't like the idea of having to work at all whether or not it's earned. At least certain corporations have done more for me than any other entity in terms of providing me things that grant me comfort though. Does that make it okay to do [insert bad capitalist thing here]? Probably not but I guess I just don't care. As for abolishing capitalism, it's not like these powerful rich people are just going to sit quietly and hand over all their gains just because some people feel bad so the way I see it I might as well be more under their favor than anything else.

 

[Red Scare]

I'm from Venezuela. I left the country in 2017.

The government just rejected all the humanitarian help other countries offered them... So unfair.

The situation there is unfortunate.

US imperialism has been plundering Venezuela for more than 100 years, this has been the case regardless of whether Bush, Obama, or Trump were in the White House. The most violent example was the attempted coup against Hugo Chávez sponsored by the US in 2002.

The big oil multinationals have always been active there. The international financial sector is active there as well. In Venezuela, it isn't "socialism" that failed. What failed is a policy that kept Venezuela dependent on oil revenue, a policy that guaranteed the profits of bankers and businessmen, while the people suffer from hunger.

Chavez did not develop national industries. Venezuela never stopped being a capitalist country.

The government attempted to make some social reforms, but it never encroached on the privileges of the big businessmen and capitalists. Even the National Constitution respects and preserves the right to private property. The Venezuelan government was always based on the bourgeois state and especially the armed forces.

The entire crux of socialism is that it is a quantitative transformation of public ownership, it is a qualitative change in the nature of the economic system from capitalism into socialism. Hence Venezuela cannot by any reasonable definition be called socialist. The economy is and always has been under majority private control. It is and has always been capitalist. Their public ownership only about on par with Europe's social-democracies like France.

I like my stuff.

You do know people owned stuff in communist countries like the USSR or Cuba, right?

No private ownership just means all land is public land, all factories and utilities, etc are publicly owned, democratically operated. This means in practice a landlord can't extort you for cash, and greedy entrepreneurs can't charge you a %5000 markup on something that cost them pennies to make.

To me, the only appeal of communism to me is to spite people who have more stuff than me. I'm not knocking it, but I wish more people would just admit that it only seems better because most people who like it think it will give them more instead of less.

Did you ever question why people have more stuff than you? They didn't literally go to work to build and labor for what they have. They didn't get what they have by being the hardest working, or the smartest person.

If you don't understand how a system is rigged, so that you can never have as much stuff as the people who have the most, because they don't want to share, then I don't think you understand what could cause poor workers to revolt and kill all the greedy capitalists, and then agree to share what they have among themselves.

I'll just do what my great grandfather did and kill myself just like he did once the Chinese Communist Party took the land that had been in our family for generations. I don't have any land now but I do have some neat collector stuff.

I see, so he'd rather die than share. That's usually the case with bourgeois rent seeking parasites. I can promise you, no one wants your junk.

I'd do zero work and leech off the government in every way I could. I already kind of do that to an extent with various programs California provides but you can bet if it became more expansive I'd be using it even more selfishly. Good thing that probably won't happen anytime soon or at least not before I intend to CTB anyway.

He who doesn't work, doesn't eat... or is sent to do forced manual labor with other criminals. If you admit to being a welfare fraud and cheat, that is a serious crime. If however you have a legitimate health problem, then public healthcare would make sure are taken care of. Public housing would ensure you don't go homeless.

Capitalism also stinks but I just don't like the idea of having to work at all whether or not it's earned.

Well if you're not medically or mentally disabled, you have to work. If you are taking advantage of ssi, then you have been deemed legitimately disabled in some capacity. These corporations you simp for, are trying very hard to lobby the government to make sure those programs don't exist. They would rather die in the street, like wounded livestock that is no longer able to fulfill a useful function than pay one red cent in taxes so that you can be sit around and be an unproductive lumpen.

At least certain corporations have done more for me than any other entity in terms of providing me things that grant me comfort though.

I highly doubt that. If you are on food stamps, and ssi, then these are what pay for your food and housing, the real creature comforts. No corporation is going to give you anything, except indirectly as a beneficiary of some charity they support.

As you need to spend more of your ssi and food stamps on surviving, and you can't afford to give those corporations what they demand for those things you want, you'll hopefully begin to understand that they haven't and they aren't giving you anything for free.

Does that make it okay to do [insert bad capitalist thing here]? Probably not but I guess I just don't care.

You will when you find yourself unable to afford a place to live, or needing an operation which your shitty public healthcare won't pay for. I have been on medi-cal before. I know it won't pay for everything. Just hope you don't get sick and need an expensive operation.

As for abolishing capitalism, it's not like these powerful rich people are just going to sit quietly and hand over all their gains just because some people feel bad so the way I see it I might as well be more under their favor than anything else.

Do you think that is how it happened in Cuba? No, there was a violent revolution and the poor workers took it from them by force. Then proceeded to murder all the capitalists.

 

[Fragile]

Discussing this is completely worthless, especially on the internet. Feels even worse than talking to hardcore religious fundamentalists. And even those are far more bearable than the hardcore believers in the red book, by a large margin.

Ultimately, I'll be much more open to the side that didn't kidnaped and murdered friends and family members and terrorized my country for 70 years...

But I'm just a CIA agent spreading propaganda, so take my life experience with a grain of salt.

 

[Red Scare]

Discussing this is completely worthless, especially on the internet. Feels even worse than talking to hardcore religious fundamentalists.

You're talking about capitalism, right?

Ultimately, I'll be much more open to the side that didn't kidnaped and murdered friends and family members and terrorized my country for 70 years...

Hmm... anecdotes aren't evidence of anything, so pics or it didn't happen.

Say, these friends and family of yours wouldn't happen to be bourgeois capitalists, or rent seeking parasites, now would they? Religious clergy maybe?

But I'm just a CIA agent spreading propaganda, so take my life experience with a grain of salt.

Might help if you let us know what country it is you are referring to. And a way to substantiate your claims that your friends and family were in fact kidnapped and murdered.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

You do know people owned stuff in communist countries like the USSR or Cuba, right?

No private ownership just means all land is public land, all factories and utilities, etc are publicly owned, democratically operated. This means in practice a landlord can't extort you for cash, and greedy entrepreneurs can't charge you a %5000 markup on something that cost them pennies to make.

But what if one day I want to be a greedy landlord or entrepreneur? Seems like the closest thing to my dream job at least.

Did you ever question why people have more stuff than you? They didn't literally go to work to build and labor for what they have. They didn't get what they have by being the hardest working, or the smartest person.

They definitely were more hard working and/or smarter than me, but that's not a hard feat to achieve. Even someone who inherits everything still has to deal with the social aspect of networking and stuff when it comes to owning businesses and I'm too useless even for that.

If you don't understand how a system is rigged, so that you can never have as much stuff as the people who have the most, because they don't want to share, then I don't think you understand what could cause poor workers to revolt and kill all the greedy capitalists, and then agree to share what they have among themselves.

I can understand that some people are just jealous, because I'm one of them. I may not have much but I don't want to share.

I see, so he'd rather die than share. That's usually the case with bourgeois rent seeking parasites. I can promise you, no one wants your junk.

The land he owned was for his farm, which he worked in along with the rest of my family at the time. There was no rent going around.

I wish people wouldn't want my stuff but the fun thing about people is that somebody somewhere out there does. I don't have to know who but I don't really care because I still don't want to have to give any of it or even any money I make to these hypothetical people.

He who doesn't work, doesn't eat... or is sent to do forced manual labor with other criminals. If you admit to being a welfare fraud and cheat, that is a serious crime. If however you have a legitimate health problem, then public healthcare would make sure are taken care of. Public housing would ensure you don't go homeless.

I am fine with programs like that being a thing but I'm just saying that if I get money to spend whatever I want with, then even basic necessities will be forgone for my own selfish greed and that's what I imagine a lot of people would abuse such programs for as well. Like the people I know who have jobs and even live in upper middle class areas and still whine about capitalism because they can't get a PS5. This doesn't even have to be a lot of people but if there are even a few leeches or parasites like me out there then that kind of system already fails. Not to say the current system is perfect or even good but it's at least better at pretending to work for now.

I wanna be clear that I'm not engaged in any fraudulent activity. The money that comes to my house is perfectly legal within what the state of California allows for my disabled sister but even with that, the fact that it keeps me housed means they're just supporting evil.

Well if you're not medically or mentally disabled, you have to work. If you are taking advantage of ssi, then you have been deemed legitimately disabled in some capacity. These corporations you simp for, are trying very hard to lobby the government to make sure those programs don't exist. They would rather die in the street, like wounded livestock that is no longer able to fulfill a useful function than pay one red cent in taxes so that you can be sit around and be an unproductive lumpen.

Well the corporations in particular I was talking about are entertainment like Nintendo or Disney, neither of whom are free from corporate practices but I just don't care because I consumed products that made me happy. Same for McDonald's, Starbucks, or most other food corporations. They made me happy in ways organized religion, my own family, friends, or the government never really could at least on a net level. They gave me joy while yes that joy was fleeting and hollow, it's at least something to be given the illusion of escape, at least in my opinion…

I get that they don't always want me sitting around much but at least they'd prefer me sitting around if I'm also paying them to do it whereas the other alternative is to not get to sit around and have to work.

You will when you find yourself unable to afford a place to live, or needing an operation which your shitty public healthcare won't pay for. I have been on medi-cal before. I know it won't pay for everything. Just hope you don't get sick and need an expensive operation.

I agree Medi-Cal sucks, because I should just be allowed to ignore my own health and die instead of being forced to process documents over health care I don't even want. I don't want health care for myself and if I did come across some disease or need for surgery I'd rather just accept my doom. Besides I don't know why you're so fixated on health care when it's perfectly possible for countries to have public health care while still being capitalist. In fact, most of the countries with access to it are.

Do you think that is how it happened in Cuba? No, there was a violent revolution and the poor workers took it from them by force. Then proceeded to murder all the capitalists.

That sounds even worse and is not a good thing to mention if you want people to like communism.

 

[Fragile]

You're talking about capitalism, right?

Hmm... anecdotes aren't evidence of anything, so pics or it didn't happen.

Say, these friends and family of yours wouldn't happen to be bourgeois capitalists, or rent seeking parasites, now would they? Religious clergy maybe?

This is exactly what I'm talking about, only a fucking commie would be as heartless as to deny the tragedies of another human being, on a suicide forum lmao. I have nothing to gain from lying, but who knows, maybe a few "uwu am sowy that happened to you" comments can bring people back to life, or cure me even.

Also, nice to see that you tried to dehumanize them by assuming that they are the kind of people you hate, almost as if you want to justify their murders.

Might help if you let us know what country it is you are referring to. And a way to substantiate your claims that your friends and family were in fact kidnapped and murdered.

I live in Colombia, the most violent shithole in latin america. You can read about it from whatever source you want, it's undeniable that there's a war going on even to this day and it is politically motivated. The ones who committed those horrible crimes against my family were also the ones spewing the same bullshit ideology you love so much.

But, sure buddy. I'll dox myself just so you can pull your mental gymnastics and somehow arrive at the same conclusion about your religion.

 

[Red Scare]

But what if one day I want to be a greedy landlord or entrepreneur? Seems like the closest thing to my dream job at least.

Yeah, you wouldn't be able to do that. Nor would it matter, because all of the things you would normally need money for, would be free.
They didn't get it by worked harder or smarter than you. Even if you don't work very much, there are people out there who will never have to work a day in their life, ever.

I can understand that some people are just jealous, because I'm one of them. I may not have much but I don't want to share.

I dint think you quite understand what socialism is if you think that means having to share your stuff. Everyone gets their own stuff.

The land he owned was for his farm, which he worked in along with the rest of my family at the time. There was no rent going around.

I don't know as much about the Chinese revolution, but at least in the ussr, they let farmers continue living in and working the land that had been theirs. Local farms were organized into collectives, and they were given modern industrial farming equipment to use, which made their jobs both easier and more efficient.

I wish people wouldn't want my stuff but the fun thing about people is that somebody somewhere out there does. I don't have to know who but I don't really care because I still don't want to have to give any of it or even any money I make to these hypothetical people.

Nobody wants your stuff. They want their own stuff. Even in a socialist country like the ussr, everybody had their own stuff.

I am fine with programs like that being a thing but I'm just saying that if I get money to spend whatever I want with, then even basic necessities will be forgone for my own selfish greed and that's what I imagine a lot of people would abuse such programs for as well.

I don't think you understand. In socialism all the basic necessities would be provided for you. So there is no need to forgo the basic necessities. That way any money you do make, you are free to spend on whatever you want.

In the USA, if you are given disability money and you choose to spend it on cigarettes instead of housing, that is not greed. It's just stupidity.

Like the people I know who have jobs and even live in upper middle class areas and still whine about capitalism because they can't get a PS5.

Not sure what this has to do with anything... if a person works their ass off, and they still can't afford to meet all their basic needs and have extra spending money, then that's because the cost of living and inflation, is outpacing pacing worker wages. These are problems with capitalism.

This doesn't even have to be a lot of people but if there are even a few leeches or parasites like me out there then that kind of system already fails. Not to say the current system is perfect or even good but it's at least better at pretending to work for now.

Unless you're physically or mentally disabled, in a socialist context, you would be required to work. That's specifically to prevent leaches and parasites from taking advantage.

If you're arguing that a system that allows leeches and parasites to take advantage is already failed, then our current system is a failure. It doesn't even do a good job of "pretending to work."

I wanna be clear that I'm not engaged in any fraudulent activity. The money that comes to my house is perfectly legal within what the state of California allows for my disabled sister but even with that, the fact that it keeps me housed means they're just supporting evil.

"Your house", you mean your parents house don't you? The money your sister gets doesn't keep you housed. Your parents do. Something tells me they probably work, because disability is not that much money. It could hardly support you and your sister.

Well the corporations in particular I was talking about are entertainment like Nintendo or Disney, neither of whom are free from corporate practices but I just don't care because I consumed products that made me happy. Same for McDonald's, Starbucks, or most other food corporations. They made me happy in ways organized religion, my own family, friends, or the government never really could at least on a net level. They gave me joy while yes that joy was fleeting and hollow, it's at least something to be given the illusion of escape, at least in my opinion…

You completely missed my point here. They don't do it for free.

If you don't work, aren't yourself on disability, and have no money of your own, then who paid for it?

I get that they don't always want me sitting around much but at least they'd prefer me sitting around if I'm also paying them to do it whereas the other alternative is to not get to sit around and have to work.

If you don't work, if your money comes from your parents, or from the government, then you aren't paying them to do anything. Your parents, the government, etc. are. You don't actually pay for anything. And if you weren't able to leach off your parents, or the system, you wouldn't be able to afford any of that.

I agree Medi-Cal sucks, because I should just be allowed to ignore my own health and die instead of being forced to process documents over health care I don't even want.

What? That makes no sense. If you don't want it, don't process the paperwork.

I don't want health care for myself and if I did come across some disease or need for surgery I'd rather just accept my doom.

So then let your healthcare lapse, and then don't fill out any more forms. I really doubt that if you had a very painful condition that would kill you slowly that you would just sit there and do nothing. You don't even have the mental fortitude to work a job. If you have an aversion to doing things that are uncomfortable for you, then I'll guess you also have a low threshold for pain.

Besides I don't know why you're so fixated on health care when it's perfectly possible for countries to have public health care while still being capitalist. In fact, most of the countries with access to it are.

What's your point?

That sounds even worse and is not a good thing to mention if you want people to like communism.

I guess since you live at home, and are shielded from the realities of what it is to have to work for a living, that you probably wouldn't understand. When you are overworked, and you still can't afford anything, with nothing to lose, revolution becomes an attractive alternative.

 

[DynamicDepression]

I come from Sweden, a social democracy. While we have private property and capital is still the name of the game, very few people go hungry and housing is provided for many (though we still have a sizable homeless population, mostly due to improper mental health care and alcoholism/drug addiction). We have cheap and in some cases even free universal healthcare (even though we spend a much lower percentage of tax on the medical sector than the US), higher education is freely accessible to every citizen, and ubiquitous labor unions with a lot of actual power.

While we are still far from perfect and have a lot of things we need to work hard to change and make better, I still think our system is one of the best in the world. Ideally, we need to nationalize more basic services, such as public transportation and the post office (which was made private a few years back and got really bad really quickly).

Rather be dead than red.

That line sorta loses its meaning on a suicide forum ;)

 

[Red Scare]

This is exactly what I'm talking about, only a fucking commie would be as heartless as to deny the tragedies of another human being, on a suicide forum lmao. I have nothing to gain from lying, but who knows, maybe a few "uwu am sowy that happened to you" comments can bring people back to life, or cure me even.

Also, nice to see that you tried to dehumanize them by assuming that they are the kind of people you hate, almost as if you want to justify their murders.



I live in Colombia, the most violent shithole in latin america. You can read about it from whatever source you want, it's undeniable that there's a war going on even to this day and it is politically motivated. The ones who committed those horrible crimes against my family were also the ones spewing the same bullshit ideology you love so much.

But, sure buddy. I'll dox myself just so you can pull your mental gymnastics and somehow arrive at the same conclusion about your religion.

Colombia is not, and has never been a socialist/communist state. Colombia has a well known history of human rights abuse, most of the recent offenses committed by US backed right wing paramilitaries who specifically targeted civilians who were even suspected of harboring Marxist sentiments.

Throughout its history, many of the leading figures of the socialist movement in Colombia have either been persecuted or eventually assassinated. Eviidence of the involvement of members of the Colombian Army and of United States organizations like the Central Intelligence Agency was present in many cases.

Going back to 1928 the United Fruit Company (UFCO) was a multinational company that exported fruit such as bananas and pineapples mainly from Latin American countries to the USA and Europe. UFCO workers on banana plantations in Colombia organized a labor strike in December 1928. The workers demanded that they be given written work contracts, that they be obligated to work no more than eight hours per day and six days per week, and that the company stop the use of "food coupons", or scrip. As a result the USA threatened to invade with the Marine Corps if the Colombian government did not act to protect United Fruit's interests. The ruling Conservative government then sent troops led by to capture the strike leaders, send them to prison at Cartagena, and send additional troops to protect the economic interests of the United Fruit Company. The Colombian Army then opened fire on people who gathered at the main plaza of the city of Ciénaga.

The rising tensions between worker movements and the Conservative party, backed by the US armed forces, resulted in "El Bogotazo" and "La Violencia" which can be directly attributed to the return to power of the Conservative party in 1946. The conflict, which would eventually claim the lives of over 200,000 people, was known as "La Violencia". The majority of the casualties were mostly peasants and laborers.

With the support of the US military, the church and corporations came a new party system that led to the consolidation of socio-economic, military, religious, and political power. Le frente nacional effectively squished any opposition political movements and any type of political or social reforms.

Colombia's military assembled death squads to cleanse the country of Marxist partisans and anyone who sympathized with them. According to Alfredo Vázquez Carrizosa, Colombia's former minister of foreign affairs, this tactic meant the newly equipped and U.S. advised brigades could "exterminate social workers, trade unionists, men and women who are not supportive of the establishment, and who are assumed to be communist extremists."

The Colombian military and their U.S. backers seem, at best, disinterested in disincentivizing the alliance between government forces and the right wing paramilitaries. The United States has for a long time heavily invested in Colombia's military operations, while paramilitary forces committed the largest number of atrocities.

Colombia has been declared a "strategically important country for the United States, because it has 'some of the largest untapped petroleum reserves in the Western Hemisphere'", by the RAND corporation, a think tank used by the US military.

Most recently there was large crackdowns on protestors who were fired in with tear gas and subject to other harsh crackdowns that resulted in thousands injured, and the deaths of 76 people.

The united states has spent more than 10 billion dollars supporting the corrupt Colombian military, their far-right paramilitary allies in their war against Marxists.

These people were targeted for what they believed in, they were not even allowed to exist. Is it any wonder they organized to fight back? It was a civil war, and the government already showed they were going to fight dirty. The socialists were fighting for their very right to exist. In the 80s, 90s, and 2000s, people still didn't have their basic economic, political, and social needs met.

By far the most of atrocities have been carried out by right wing forces, and the conservative backed Colombian Army, along with support from the US armed forces and the CIA. The USA's war on drugs has cemented a state-apparatus there that is efficient in violence and repression.

Counter-narcotics strategy is not really against drugs, it's not about the elimination of cocaine or international trafficking. It's for territorial control, for the control of Indigenous, campesino, and Black communities. More than 50 percent of the nation's land is owned by the top 1 percent of the population. Indigenous and Afro-Colombian populations—as is the case for almost all of the Americas—are overwhelmingly impacted by this distribution: Poverty, unemployment, and lack of access to basic resources falls disproportionately on these communities. So far little land redistribution has occurred. These dire circumstances are what continue to divide the country.

 

[Symbiote]

 

[YourNeighbor]

If you really want to learn about economics, educate yourself by seeking information from experts, and be prepared to have your preconceptions challenged and invalidated.

If you want to start a virtual melee, ask a bunch of anonymous users (the most emphatic of which invariably have little/no knowledge of the subject matter) on a suicide forum to share their convictions on economics/politics.

 

[Dysgenic Pup]

If you really want to learn about economics, educate yourself by seeking information from experts, and be prepared to have your preconceptions challenged and invalidated.

If you want to start a virtual melee, ask a bunch of anonymous users (the most emphatic of which invariably have little/no knowledge of the subject matter) on a suicide forum to share their convictions on economics/politics.

So basically in translation, you're calling me a disingenuous, low-life, revolting, vulgar, worthless, nasty, impolite, arrogant, thoughtless, inconsiderate, belligerent, callous, cowardly, self-centered, vain, silly, cruel, nasty, foolish, patronizing, careless, pompous, little maggot?

 

[YourNeighbor]

So basically in translation, you're calling me a disingenuous, low-life, revolting, vulgar, worthless, nasty, impolite, arrogant, thoughtless, inconsiderate, belligerent, callous, cowardly, self-centered, vain, silly, cruel, nasty, foolish, patronizing, careless, pompous, little maggot?

Huh? Cites, please. Is this the civilized discussion you were referring to?

 

[Dysgenic Pup]

Huh? Cites, please. Is this the civilized discussion you were referring to?

This is extremely civilized. I still respect you very much, despite our disagreements. *reaches out hand as sign of a peace offering*

 

[Riddle]

If you really want to learn about economics, educate yourself by seeking information from experts, and be prepared to have your preconceptions challenged and invalidated.

If you want to start a virtual melee, ask a bunch of anonymous users (the most emphatic of which invariably have little/no knowledge of the subject matter) on a suicide forum to share their conviction

That's what I want to hear! Communists/socialists want to take this away from you...

s on economics/politics.

Hey ya'll hate, but this is breezewood and its the perfect stop for somebody heading north on the East Coast. I got a chicken carbonara at that quiznos and it was money. In a communist state, who would decide what restaurants would be here if not the free market?