GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,727
I've seen suicide from several angles. I had a boyfriend in high school commit suicide with no warning or warning signs. I've had friends with suicidal ideation. I myself am rationally considering suicide and have already attempted. And of course, I've been a member of this forum, for far longer than I intended or anticipated.
We often hear people say, "If only I had known, I could have done something," or we hear of (or have) parents or other loved ones who do everything to try to get the person to get help, and become hypervigilant to try to prevent a suicide attempt. In my experience as well as study, these words and actions represent a false belief that we can control others' experiences and actions, and they give us a false sense of power; in other words, it is codependence.
Several years ago, I got free of some of my own codependent patterns. I learned and internalized that I can't control others, they're going to do what they're going to do. I can have conversations with them, I can share my point of view, I can try to influence, but I can also listen, pay attention to what I'm hearing, and if I still choose to attempt to influence, it is ultimately up to them what to do with it. What they do is up to them whether I attempt to influence them or not.
This was tested when I had a friend who self-harmed and also had suicidal ideation. We would have coffee and smoke together. She would disclose her problems, her motivations for self-harm and how she did it, and her plans for suicide. We were part of the same community, and I would see how she sometimes used her self-harm as a way to communicate her displeasure with someone and to try to influence the actions of others according to her wishes. Instead of shaming her, I listened. I sometimes presented alternative perspectives, but I knew she'd had these issues and relationships long before I came along, and they were outside of my control, as we were separate, autonomous people. I was able to not get enmeshed with her issues or with her. I just listened, I showed compassion, and I always knew that if it was more than I could handle, I could make the choice to take a break from or disengage from the relationship. This was new for me, and I really enjoyed the freedom of not getting enmeshed. I enjoyed our connection that was free of my wants for her but rather gave her the space to figure out for herself what she wanted and what was best for her. She also was doing everything she could to feel better, trying different methods, seeing a therapist, even ordered a book I suggested. She didn't like the way she felt or what she was doing to cope, such as cutting and brandishing the cuts, and she valued her relationships, there simply was more than she had the resources to manage.
When she told me about her suicide plan, I listened, I asked questions when something about it didn't seem doable, and I allowed her the space to figure things out for herself. She really, genuinely appreciated my listening. There was no stress between us. I wasn't her suicide cheerleader, and it wasn't a regular topic of conversation, I was just a genuine friend. After I left the community but was still on Facebook, I found out she did ECT as a last-ditch effort, and for her, it worked (I've met others for whom it had horrific long-term effects, and in fact checked in with this friend about her choice to do it, and then in spite of my fears for her, sat back and gave her the space to decide for herself what was best). I don't know for how long, I eventually left Facebook and completely disconnected from everyone in that community, but the last I heard, she no longer had suicidal ideation and overall felt much better.
Then I read Boundaries, and the authors said something that really resonated with my having known other victims of severe domestic violence. The authors likened escaping it to a baby bird getting out of its shell: it's really difficult, not all have the strength to get, and not all survive it, but if someone intervenes and does it for them, they do not survive. In the same way, it's really difficult for a victim to get out of an abusive situation, but oftentimes, if someone rescues them, they will either return to the abuser or their next relationship will be abusive, continuing the cycle. It's hard to get out, and they may not make it in spite of trying, but they have to be motivated to seek and go to support, such as calling a DV hotline, making plans to escape, going to a shelter or to a friend, etc. Many people who experience domestic violence will not cooperate with police, will not press charges, will drop charges, or for various reasons will continue with the abuser once they return from having been detained. I realized that if I called the police after what I witnessed, there is a good chance it may not have made a difference, or made things worse. As often happens, even if the man had been arrested, he could have come back and become even worse, perhaps killing her. It happens quite often. She needed to seek intervention herself, and seek the means to get out of the situation for herself. Unless she empowered herself to take action on her own behalf and opened doors for herself like the baby bird opening a hole in its shell, odds are she'd not succeed in getting free. This isn't mental gymnastics on my part to feel better, the whole thing still feels like shit, but this also makes sense. As violent as he was, he might have gotten worse if I'd attempted to influence the situation.
I believe it is the same with someone who needs to heal. I see with my own parents that they are not capable of facing what happened to them in childhood, and they are not capable of admitting the emotional and physical violence perpetrated against me growing up. I tried to tell them, to show them, and to help our family heal, but they did not seek healing themselves, let alone pursue it. Many people here on the forum seek and pursue healing but still do not attain it, and I had a close friend who experienced the same and it was heartbreaking. Many here don't want to seek or pursue it and that is their choice and their right, regardless of how I or anyone else feels about it. With regard to my parents, I learned what one therapist calls the three C's for staying out of codependence: I didn't cause it, I can't control it, and I can't cure it. I intuitively used this with my friend who self-harmed and had suicidal ideation and a plan. I use it on the forum. And I remember the baby bird analogy. None of this is easy, and it takes effort for me to hold back and not seek to impose my will and wants, but it's rational.
What is irrational is thinking I can cure or control another's situation, or them. To think otherwise is crazy-making, and I think the loved ones of those who experience suicidality make themselves and the one they love crazy by trying to enforce a cure and by trying to control. That's codependence, not love. Love is accepting. Sometimes acceptance means detaching from the person if one can't manage their issues. Self-acceptance and self-love are just as important, otherwise one doesn't have sufficent inner resources to accept, love, and support another.
As an afterthought, for anyone reading this who is having a difficult time with a loved one's mental health challenges, with their suicidality, or with their suicide that's already occurred, I want you to know that you have my compassion. I can't make things better, but maybe in reading this, you found tools that can help you stop the crazy-making cycles of non-acceptance so that you can better manage what is beyond your control. If you think you may have caused the other person's issues, I hope you'll seek and pursue help for yourself to get free of patterns of other-control, including violence and oppression, without leaning on that person for support. If you think you caused it but were not abusive, controlling, violent, or oppressive, then I hope you can find support for codependency so that you do not carry a burden that isn't yours. I sincerely wish for your well-being and freedom from suffering. Would that I had the power to bring that to every human. The best I can do is share these tools: the analogy of the baby bird breaking free of its shell, and the three C's.
We often hear people say, "If only I had known, I could have done something," or we hear of (or have) parents or other loved ones who do everything to try to get the person to get help, and become hypervigilant to try to prevent a suicide attempt. In my experience as well as study, these words and actions represent a false belief that we can control others' experiences and actions, and they give us a false sense of power; in other words, it is codependence.
Several years ago, I got free of some of my own codependent patterns. I learned and internalized that I can't control others, they're going to do what they're going to do. I can have conversations with them, I can share my point of view, I can try to influence, but I can also listen, pay attention to what I'm hearing, and if I still choose to attempt to influence, it is ultimately up to them what to do with it. What they do is up to them whether I attempt to influence them or not.
This was tested when I had a friend who self-harmed and also had suicidal ideation. We would have coffee and smoke together. She would disclose her problems, her motivations for self-harm and how she did it, and her plans for suicide. We were part of the same community, and I would see how she sometimes used her self-harm as a way to communicate her displeasure with someone and to try to influence the actions of others according to her wishes. Instead of shaming her, I listened. I sometimes presented alternative perspectives, but I knew she'd had these issues and relationships long before I came along, and they were outside of my control, as we were separate, autonomous people. I was able to not get enmeshed with her issues or with her. I just listened, I showed compassion, and I always knew that if it was more than I could handle, I could make the choice to take a break from or disengage from the relationship. This was new for me, and I really enjoyed the freedom of not getting enmeshed. I enjoyed our connection that was free of my wants for her but rather gave her the space to figure out for herself what she wanted and what was best for her. She also was doing everything she could to feel better, trying different methods, seeing a therapist, even ordered a book I suggested. She didn't like the way she felt or what she was doing to cope, such as cutting and brandishing the cuts, and she valued her relationships, there simply was more than she had the resources to manage.
When she told me about her suicide plan, I listened, I asked questions when something about it didn't seem doable, and I allowed her the space to figure things out for herself. She really, genuinely appreciated my listening. There was no stress between us. I wasn't her suicide cheerleader, and it wasn't a regular topic of conversation, I was just a genuine friend. After I left the community but was still on Facebook, I found out she did ECT as a last-ditch effort, and for her, it worked (I've met others for whom it had horrific long-term effects, and in fact checked in with this friend about her choice to do it, and then in spite of my fears for her, sat back and gave her the space to decide for herself what was best). I don't know for how long, I eventually left Facebook and completely disconnected from everyone in that community, but the last I heard, she no longer had suicidal ideation and overall felt much better.
I've also known women who have been on the receiving end of domestic violence. A couple of years ago, I heard a couple in my apartment building having a fight, the woman was being aggressed against, and as I passed outside the door, the man hit the woman. The whole exchange was so charged and so violent. Normally, I would call the police, but I was stunned. We often hear about fight-or-flight, but it's actually fight, flight, or freeze, and I froze. I didn't know what to do about it. I was not my normal, assertive, know-what-to-do self. It shook me to the core. I did not call the police, and that bothered me for a long time, that there was something I could have done, and I didn't.
Then I read Boundaries, and the authors said something that really resonated with my having known other victims of severe domestic violence. The authors likened escaping it to a baby bird getting out of its shell: it's really difficult, not all have the strength to get, and not all survive it, but if someone intervenes and does it for them, they do not survive. In the same way, it's really difficult for a victim to get out of an abusive situation, but oftentimes, if someone rescues them, they will either return to the abuser or their next relationship will be abusive, continuing the cycle. It's hard to get out, and they may not make it in spite of trying, but they have to be motivated to seek and go to support, such as calling a DV hotline, making plans to escape, going to a shelter or to a friend, etc. Many people who experience domestic violence will not cooperate with police, will not press charges, will drop charges, or for various reasons will continue with the abuser once they return from having been detained. I realized that if I called the police after what I witnessed, there is a good chance it may not have made a difference, or made things worse. As often happens, even if the man had been arrested, he could have come back and become even worse, perhaps killing her. It happens quite often. She needed to seek intervention herself, and seek the means to get out of the situation for herself. Unless she empowered herself to take action on her own behalf and opened doors for herself like the baby bird opening a hole in its shell, odds are she'd not succeed in getting free. This isn't mental gymnastics on my part to feel better, the whole thing still feels like shit, but this also makes sense. As violent as he was, he might have gotten worse if I'd attempted to influence the situation.
I believe it is the same with someone who needs to heal. I see with my own parents that they are not capable of facing what happened to them in childhood, and they are not capable of admitting the emotional and physical violence perpetrated against me growing up. I tried to tell them, to show them, and to help our family heal, but they did not seek healing themselves, let alone pursue it. Many people here on the forum seek and pursue healing but still do not attain it, and I had a close friend who experienced the same and it was heartbreaking. Many here don't want to seek or pursue it and that is their choice and their right, regardless of how I or anyone else feels about it. With regard to my parents, I learned what one therapist calls the three C's for staying out of codependence: I didn't cause it, I can't control it, and I can't cure it. I intuitively used this with my friend who self-harmed and had suicidal ideation and a plan. I use it on the forum. And I remember the baby bird analogy. None of this is easy, and it takes effort for me to hold back and not seek to impose my will and wants, but it's rational.
What is irrational is thinking I can cure or control another's situation, or them. To think otherwise is crazy-making, and I think the loved ones of those who experience suicidality make themselves and the one they love crazy by trying to enforce a cure and by trying to control. That's codependence, not love. Love is accepting. Sometimes acceptance means detaching from the person if one can't manage their issues. Self-acceptance and self-love are just as important, otherwise one doesn't have sufficent inner resources to accept, love, and support another.
As an afterthought, for anyone reading this who is having a difficult time with a loved one's mental health challenges, with their suicidality, or with their suicide that's already occurred, I want you to know that you have my compassion. I can't make things better, but maybe in reading this, you found tools that can help you stop the crazy-making cycles of non-acceptance so that you can better manage what is beyond your control. If you think you may have caused the other person's issues, I hope you'll seek and pursue help for yourself to get free of patterns of other-control, including violence and oppression, without leaning on that person for support. If you think you caused it but were not abusive, controlling, violent, or oppressive, then I hope you can find support for codependency so that you do not carry a burden that isn't yours. I sincerely wish for your well-being and freedom from suffering. Would that I had the power to bring that to every human. The best I can do is share these tools: the analogy of the baby bird breaking free of its shell, and the three C's.
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