Venting Things non-suicidal people dont get about us

[Astral_void]

1. Just beacuse from a stroke of luck in your life you got better dosent mean I will or even can for that matter.

2. Depressed people don't see enjoyment or hope in all if the little things like yall do, we already gave up on that.

3. We use logic, pure logic, we can't be persuaded by things that don't go along with fact

4. Sometimes there is no possible way to escape, there is a mental or physical barrier that can't be broken blocking us from happiness.

5. Saying that it would be selfish of us to kill ourselves and not consider our loved ones, we have considered our loved ones time and time again and looked for a solution that dosent hurt them, but eventually we realize that we can't stop the pain without hurting them, and come to the question of why should I continue suffering continue hurting for years on years just so others can be happy, 9/10 times we have been doing things for others our entire life's and got nothing in return, so why should I be in constant pain just because it would make others more happy, why should I live for others if, others haven't lived for me, why should I be in constant pain for eternity, so others can feel good about themselves.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

#5 is so true. There is evidence that this line of reasoning ("what about your family? What about society?") contributes to suicidal ideation by increasing feelings of shame and guilt for the suicidal person which contributes to their desire to ctb. It is fundamentally unhelpful and unrealistic to ascribe some moral responsibility to stay alive and suffer simply for others to feel okay.

I've lost faith in others' ability to have person-centered conversations about voluntary assisted dying (VAD or what we call ctb on this forum).

 

[FlyAwayHoney]

People who label individuals who die by suicide as "selfish" clearly do not fully grasp the profound struggles and mental health issues that can lead someone to make such a decision. I find people who say such things tend to be people who struggle with empathy. It is such an ignorant statement.

 

[IfyouareamanWinston]

They have a cognitive dissonance with the thought of death and suicide because they are controlled by the primal urge to live. That's why what they say to you is calloused and illogical at time. Im sorry that people say this kind of thing to you, when you suffer and they say this it hurts more.

 

[Heading to Darkness]

yes labels are a dangerous thing, Even to label ourselves on here as 'suicidal people' or people with suicidal thoughts@ is fundamentally incorrect. Everyone is here for their own private or public reasons and if that happens to end in them taking their life that should be respected no assumed it was some dreadful illness. In the UK supposedly there has been a shift away from mental health being a taboo topic of discussion, employers are supposed to make provisions and offer support where needed, which is a big improvement ,But when the word suicide is mentioned we can be deafened by the silence, people don't know what to say so change subject etc etc. even professionals who ,in the main, are amazing but overstretched don't quite get it.It's a bit of box ticking. .if you admit to being suicidal its ..are u in danger today? What a question you daren't say yes as you know its fast track to forced drugs, possibly sanctioned and hospital bed (except there aren't any. we certainly do not want to say. look i tried to kill myself, i failed, it wasn't a cry for help i just failed, i'll have another go soon as i want to die. There's a life sentence locked up!
We should be able to say freely, Thanks for your help, my mind is in good health i just really want to die so i want no treatment thank you and be respected for that ,not locked up or criticised.
Clearly if an individual does want help, well good luck to them and lets hope the system can help them
So, I am not a suicidal person, nor am i just a person with suicidal thoughts. I am an individual for reasons of my owm, in the clear light of day want the right to end MY life.
Sorry that was longer than intended

 

[bigfishlittlefish]

1. Just beacuse from a stroke of luck in your life you got better dosent mean I will or even can for that matter.

2. Depressed people don't see enjoyment or hope in all if the little things like yall do, we already gave up on that.

3. We use logic, pure logic, we can't be persuaded by things that don't go along with fact

4. Sometimes there is no possible way to escape, there is a mental or physical barrier that can't be broken blocking us from happiness.

5. Saying that it would be selfish of us to kill ourselves and not consider our loved ones, we have considered our loved ones time and time again and looked for a solution that dosent hurt them, but eventually we realize that we can't stop the pain without hurting them, and come to the question of why should I continue suffering continue hurting for years on years just so others can be happy, 9/10 times we have been doing things for others our entire life's and got nothing in return, so why should I be in constant pain just because it would make others more happy, why should I live for others if, others haven't lived for me, why should I be in constant pain for eternity, so others can feel good about themselves.

point 5 - yeah, exactly. Why should I have to live in tons of pain that will never go away just to spare someone else from some grief that will definitely get better eventually?

 

[Arihman]

The "think of loved ones" point is utterly retarded. Unless you're deciding to commit suicide for some "trivial" reason that can be more or less easily fixed with time and/or some therapy (which is very unlikely to be the cause of suicidal ideation, given the presence of factors like survival instinct and optimism bias making it difficult to get to that point), the sacrifice involved in staying alive for them entails:

1. Enduring the pain of loss yourself, in addition to what made you suicidal beforehand;
2. Being forced to risk horrible pain in the future;
3. In general enduring a likely greater level of suffering than the one you might cause to your loved ones (which is inevitable anyway, and likely made worse by the way people have to CTB in secret), who are unlikely to end up suicidal themselves because of your death;

In other words this entails enduring more suffering to prevent comparatively less of it, even though it should generally be easier for non-suicidal people to recover than it is for suicidal people.

It can be a choice, and far be it from me to demonize those who willingly impose such a duty on themselves, but it's not a reasonable expectation to place and coercively enforce on people who are sick of living. It's just not a balanced sacrifice, even more so if said loved ones actually contributed to creating the bad situation in the first place (as is sometimes the case).

Those who make this point are, thus, either imbeciles or assholes.

 

[Oathkeeper]

People without mental illness love to blissfully ignore the fact that some people, regardless of the circumstances of their birth, just live sad, painful lives.

I don't know if it's how they cope, maybe they genuinely believe the things they say.

The sheer reality is that not everybody gets healthier, gets that happy ending at the end of the tunnel.

 

[IDoNotExist]

Agreed. Especially #1, #3, and #5. Just why should I think about others, suffer for them, and continue suffering because of their selfishness and need to use me? The thing is, we depressed and suicidal people live and accept the complete reality of this wretched world. Non-suicidal and not depressed people are simply blinded by joy and happiness to see the reality that most of us have easily accepted. The reality of this world is simply a blank canvas, empty. The empty pages of a book.

(IS THAT THE AOEN OF NIHILITY? IX!!! DO YOU PLAY HSR TOO?)

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I agree with all of these points. Though, to expand on the last point, it's also possible for people to not have loved ones to begin with which, in my opinion, is also something that non suicidal people can ever comprehend as I've seen every single one of them say the same thing (that killing yourself is selfish due to loved ones)

 

[ilikemoais]

Non-suicidal people always say the same words of salvation, like we didn't hear or think about it a long time ago or constantly through our lives.

They also can't get that even the smallest problem for someone can be the biggest for a suicidal person. For example, they usually compare someone's problem with someone that is going through something worse. Theres no good or bad reason to ctb; it's a decision that we should be able to take for whatever reason we find it correctly for us to take.

 

[Astral_void]

Agreed. Especially #1, #3, and #5. Just why should I think about others, suffer for them, and continue suffering because of their selfishness and need to use me? The thing is, we depressed and suicidal people live and accept the complete reality of this wretched world. Non-suicidal and not depressed people are simply blinded by joy and happiness to see the reality that most of us have easily accepted. The reality of this world is simply a blank canvas, empty. The empty pages of a book.

(IS THAT THE AOEN OF NIHILITY? IX!!! DO YOU PLAY HSR TOO?)

Lol yeah it's IX I play hsr

 

[NewtBoy]

I think all of the replies have made me realize that (most) non-suicidal people simply have a fundamental lack of empathy or understanding of the situation people like us are in. They often bring up things that they probably think are world-changing revelations that we'd never thought of, such as "what about your family/society????". All of these questions are usually asked fairly condescendingly in my opinion, they normally assume that suicidal people haven't considered the finality and gravity of the decision they're making, when from my experience, suicidal people are CONSTANTLY thinking about and discussing the ethics, morals, and situations in which a person takes their own life. I guess it would make sense that upon really only engaging with suicide hypothetically and superficially, that these people would have very surface-level opinions and beliefs on the subject. We can only hope that a more logical narrative reaches the mainstream someday.

 

[cetacea]

#5 is so true. There is evidence that this line of reasoning ("what about your family? What about society?") contributes to suicidal ideation by increasing feelings of shame and guilt for the suicidal person which contributes to their desire to ctb. It is fundamentally unhelpful and unrealistic to ascribe some moral responsibility to stay alive and suffer simply for others to feel okay.

I've lost faith in others' ability to have person-centered conversations about voluntary assisted dying (VAD or what we call ctb on this forum).

this one really gets me, i talk to my boyfriend about my thoughts sometimes and while overall i know hes trying to be nice because he cares, it tends to go back to "what about everyone else" or "what about me". All ive done is think about & consider other people and it got me abused, taken advantage of, and then thrown in the garbage after I had nothing left to give. when he says these things to me it makes me more suicidal.

 

[BlockHammer]

Some of the argument i heard from prolifter are directed toward unpredictable future, they said the future is unknown and it will be a waste if u kill urself cause who knows probably you going to be sucessful. But if u heard their logic, it actually can be applied to both side like example like i said before, prolifter said that future can't be predict and if you kill urself, you'll wasted the change to became a "succesful" person. Well, WHERE'S THE PROOF OF THAT, they dont have a concreate prove about their claim, if that the case i also can said that i will be suffer for long as i live because like they said future is unpredictable, i dont think i can withstand their "positivity" anymore. Another point i want to adress is in point 1, while some people can get lucky like prolifter claim, it's an anecdotal experience, you can applied this "lucky experience" to everybody that has ever experience it and yet there will always be someone who's suffering no matter how long they live. Some pain are to painful to handle to the point that they better kill themself rather than waiting for this luck that who knows when that thing's going to come

 

[NocturnILL]

Agreed! It's infuriating and frustrating tbh. Most non suicidal people also just don't get that it's not just an "easier" way to get out of a "unhappy life". That not wanting and/or no longer having the reserves to "keep trying" is giving up. Like not fighting or having a desire to stay alive is weak. As if waking up and getting out of bed isn't such a fight in itself for many of us.
Everything doesn't work the same for everyone. It's like being bulked in a group and we are all the same. Maybe them taking a walk everyday cures them. Me personally, I'm always hoping I'm walking past someone's target practice and get headshot when I take a walk.

 

[whateverr]

1. Just beacuse from a stroke of luck in your life you got better dosent mean I will or even can for that matter.

2. Depressed people don't see enjoyment or hope in all if the little things like yall do, we already gave up on that.

3. We use logic, pure logic, we can't be persuaded by things that don't go along with fact

4. Sometimes there is no possible way to escape, there is a mental or physical barrier that can't be broken blocking us from happiness.

5. Saying that it would be selfish of us to kill ourselves and not consider our loved ones, we have considered our loved ones time and time again and looked for a solution that dosent hurt them, but eventually we realize that we can't stop the pain without hurting them, and come to the question of why should I continue suffering continue hurting for years on years just so others can be happy, 9/10 times we have been doing things for others our entire life's and got nothing in return, so why should I be in constant pain just because it would make others more happy, why should I live for others if, others haven't lived for me, why should I be in constant pain for eternity, so others can feel good about themselves.

We're not all like this, especially number 3. I'm way more of a deep thinker than an analytical one. I actually suck at analytical thinking. That's why I used to be so into music.

 

[Vesiira]

1. Just beacuse from a stroke of luck in your life you got better dosent mean I will or even can for that matter.

2. Depressed people don't see enjoyment or hope in all if the little things like yall do, we already gave up on that.

3. We use logic, pure logic, we can't be persuaded by things that don't go along with fact

4. Sometimes there is no possible way to escape, there is a mental or physical barrier that can't be broken blocking us from happiness.

5. Saying that it would be selfish of us to kill ourselves and not consider our loved ones, we have considered our loved ones time and time again and looked for a solution that dosent hurt them, but eventually we realize that we can't stop the pain without hurting them, and come to the question of why should I continue suffering continue hurting for years on years just so others can be happy, 9/10 times we have been doing things for others our entire life's and got nothing in return, so why should I be in constant pain just because it would make others more happy, why should I live for others if, others haven't lived for me, why should I be in constant pain for eternity, so others can feel good about themselves.

i totally agree friend!!!! it's so exhausting trying to explain to them how we feel and that we know it'll never truly go away. the sadness, the pain, the thoughts. darkness is our only option for peace in this world. we have tried so hard to get better, but it just doesn't. nothing feels good anymore. life seems so pointless on a planet full of selfishness and hate. sending you love and light.

 

[FuneralCry]

So many of those people are just so delusional and lack any awareness, it's dreadful how many of them just invalidate the suffering that other people go through.

 

[IfyouareamanWinston]

this one really gets me, i talk to my boyfriend about my thoughts sometimes and while overall i know hes trying to be nice because he cares, it tends to go back to "what about everyone else" or "what about me". All ive done is think about & consider other people and it got me abused, taken advantage of, and then thrown in the garbage after I had nothing left to give. when he says these things to me it makes me more suicidal.

I have this issue with my husband too. Ultimately I think we are all alone in our perspectives and I am sure there are ways that I am insensitive towards him. With these issues and thoughts though its devastating to feel your partner cannot understand or help. Then they actively say things to reject or hurt you as well.


Also off topic: Your profile pic has got me fucked up idk if that is a whale or dolphin or what but its scary lol

 

[Kit1]

I have a life - a family, a job, friends, place to live in and food to eat. I also want to die. I am here for my children. The pain is intense like this week and I want to be gone. There is nothing wrong with that. It doesn't make me selfish. All of us here have our reasons and challenges - and listening to people constantly talk about support and promises that they cannot deliver on and the judgements they come with just adds to the pain - especially when they are unwilling or unable to even help!

 

[cetacea]

I have this issue with my husband too. Ultimately I think we are all alone in our perspectives and I am sure there are ways that I am insensitive towards him. With these issues and thoughts though its devastating to feel your partner cannot understand or help. Then they actively say things to reject or hurt you as well.


Also off topic: Your profile pic has got me fucked up idk if that is a whale or dolphin or what but its scary lol

I think it's important to remember that - assuming your husband is like my boyfriend - they are saying these things because they care and it might scare/worry them when we talk about these grim thoughts. So while yeah their responses are kinda selfish sometimes but it just means they love us, and the truth is that we would probably respond much of the same way if the roles were reversed.

It's hard for people to know what to say to a suicidal person because while there is more info about it now, resources/advice are seemingly constructed & written by people who haven't been suicidal. The advice is all kinda superficial in my opinion. At the very least it attempts to be nice.

off topic response:
my profile pic is one of my fav animals; the false killer whale! don't worry it wont hurt you!

 

[whateverr]

So many of those people are just so delusional and lack any awareness, it's dreadful how many of them just invalidate the suffering that other people go through.

Lying to yourself is a survival mechanism. They're only doing it because they're human. Same thing actually applies to a lot of people who fantasize about suicide, but don't actually ever plan on doing it, at least to some extent.

 

[Raindancer]

It's hard for people to know what to say to a suicidal person because while there is more info about it now, resources/advice are seemingly constructed & written by people who haven't been suicidal. The advice is all kinda superficial in my opinion. At the very least it attempts to be nice.

I agree. I know many of us have been very hurt by some of the thoughtless things people have said in response. But one of the biggest and important lessons I have learned is unless you have experienced it, you don't have a clue. They truly just have absolutely no idea how it feels at those depths of despair. It makes most extremely uncomfortable so they say something totally inappropriate. I truly do think those that love or care about us only want to make it better, but have no idea how and many times it isn't possible.

 

[F@#$]

1. Just beacuse from a stroke of luck in your life you got better dosent mean I will or even can for that matter.

2. Depressed people don't see enjoyment or hope in all if the little things like yall do, we already gave up on that.

3. We use logic, pure logic, we can't be persuaded by things that don't go along with fact

4. Sometimes there is no possible way to escape, there is a mental or physical barrier that can't be broken blocking us from happiness.

5. Saying that it would be selfish of us to kill ourselves and not consider our loved ones, we have considered our loved ones time and time again and looked for a solution that dosent hurt them, but eventually we realize that we can't stop the pain without hurting them, and come to the question of why should I continue suffering continue hurting for years on years just so others can be happy, 9/10 times we have been doing things for others our entire life's and got nothing in return, so why should I be in constant pain just because it would make others more happy, why should I live for others if, others haven't lived for me, why should I be in constant pain for eternity, so others can feel good about themselves.

Absolutely, I've tried its futile. Nobody gives a fuck about me and my feelings. So fuck the world and what ever misery my death brings to it. Enjoy!

 

[hxppythxught]

i agree, i'm always really exhausted and i feel as if people who don't struggle from mental heath issues especially see people like us as soft or little, i find myself always being talked down to or babied even, because of my mental illnesses.

i have tried to end things and it only made this treatment worse. i wish there was a way for people who are more fortunate and don't struggle with mental illnesses to understand how people like us feel. but that just isn't possible.

 

[whateverr]

i agree, i'm always really exhausted and i feel as if people who don't struggle from mental heath issues especially see people like us as soft or little, i find myself always being talked down to or babied even, because of my mental illnesses.

i have tried to end things and it only made this treatment worse. i wish there was a way for people who are more fortunate and don't struggle with mental illnesses to understand how people like us feel. but that just isn't possible.

lol we are soft and little. that's what sucks about this so much. mental health problems turns a lot of people into pathetic piles of shit.