Venting They're blissfully unaware.....

[WorthlessTrash]

DISCLAIMER: Not interested in advice on how to better my life, not interested in being talked (or gaslit?) Into not CTBing, and not interested in debating why I won't treat my dysphoria. If you want my reasons why I won't, you can find various posts in my post history detailing it. It is not up for debate so don't bring it up here or anywhere else. This thread is strictly to let out my thoughts and nothing more. Words of consolation are welcome, though.


My family are blissfully unaware that my time is running out. My mom is focusing on her schoolwork and working 2 jobs, my sister will be leaving the inpatient program and going to a group home soon to hopefully recover, and my friend (that knows about my dysphoria) is making progress in leaving the US to go be with his wife. But none of them realize that I am on borrowed time, that my SI is growing thin and the guilt of leaving them behind is day by day getting outweighed by the pain of existing.

As it stands my life consists of sleep, wake up, eat, browse discord and SaSu, think about my ideal life and what could have been, think about how sweet it will be to exit and repeat. This same routine repeated until I am ready.

Unfortunately for them, there is nothing they could have done to prevent this from happening. This all came down to luck thirty something years ago. I just feel bad about the pain that I will eventually cause them, however something has to give. It's not up to me to suffer on the behest of anyone else. I stand to gain nothing worthwhile from doing so.

Before last May when my dysphoria became overpowering, i was hoping to fall in love with someone but these days the thought of anyone being romantically involved with me repulses me. Not because they are repulsive, but because for their sake it is repulsive. Me calling women attractive, no even me thinking it is extremely cringey as I am unworthy of forming those opinions.

I am a neet and i am deliberately one. The ironic thing is if I was born the way i wanted to, I'd be more than happy not to be a neet and leech of society. I have no reason to care about myself, no reason to plan a future for myself.

It's so draining watching those have the appearance and life that I want. I am not angry at them for being happy about it at all. I'd certainly be joyful of it. I'm mad that I was not born into circumstances where I can.

I can't wait until I tire myself out of the venting phase and I am ready to CTB. If someone is in too much pain to function, maybe the best thing is to put them out of their misery.

 

[raybd]

DISCLAIMER: Not interested in advice on how to better my life, not interested in being talked (or gaslit?) Into not CTBing, and not interested in debating why I won't treat my dysphoria. If you want my reasons why I won't, you can find various posts in my post history detailing it. It is not up for debate so don't bring it up here or anywhere else. This thread is strictly to let out my thoughts and nothing more. Words of consolation are welcome, though.


My family are blissfully unaware that my time is running out. My mom is focusing on her schoolwork and working 2 jobs, my sister will be leaving the inpatient program and going to a group home soon to hopefully recover, and my friend (that knows about my dysphoria) is making progress in leaving the US to go be with his wife. But none of them realize that I am on borrowed time, that my SI is growing thin and the guilt of leaving them behind is day by day getting outweighed by the pain of existing.

As it stands my life consists of sleep, wake up, eat, browse discord and SaSu, think about my ideal life and what could have been, think about how sweet it will be to exit and repeat. This same routine repeated until I am ready.

Unfortunately for them, there is nothing they could have done to prevent this from happening. This all came down to luck thirty something years ago. I just feel bad about the pain that I will eventually cause them, however something has to give. It's not up to me to suffer on the behest of anyone else. I stand to gain nothing worthwhile from doing so.

Before last May when my dysphoria became overpowering, i was hoping to fall in love with someone but these days the thought of anyone being romantically involved with me repulses me. Not because they are repulsive, but because for their sake it is repulsive. Me calling women attractive, no even me thinking it is extremely cringey as I am unworthy of forming those opinions.

I am a neet and i am deliberately one. The ironic thing is if I was born the way i wanted to, I'd be more than happy not to be a neet and leech of society. I have no reason to care about myself, no reason to plan a future for myself.

It's so draining watching those have the appearance and life that I want. I am not angry at them for being happy about it at all. I'd certainly be joyful of it. I'm mad that I was not born into circumstances where I can.

I can't wait until I tire myself out of the venting phase and I am ready to CTB. If someone is in too much pain to function, maybe the best thing is to put them out of their misery.

You know, I replied to you on another thread that, if with total clarity, you think it's too painful to live without having been born a woman, you may be right in thinking CTB is the only option. Or get enough happy pills to be a "happy zombie". Or whatever.
There's another way too this can resolve. Men and women have different strengths in life. Obviously, men have greater focus, physical strength, speed and stamina, quicker reflexes etc. May be you are suddenly in a situation where your having a male physical form, somehow saves the day... for you and everyone around. May be you are in a burning building. The extra strength and reach helps you save more people. Or some other such experience. And suddenly you become comfortable with the male form... dysphoria goes away... and the foundation for your wanting to CTB goes with it.
Are you sure that there is no such mild-altering experience you might come across?
It's a thought experiment. As much as concluding in all clarity that CTB is the answer, is also one.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

You know, I replied to you on another thread that, if with total clarity, you think it's too painful to live without having been born a woman, you may be right in thinking CTB is the only option. Or get enough happy pills to be a "happy zombie". Or whatever.
There's another way too this can resolve. Men and women have different strengths in life. Obviously, men have greater focus, physical strength, speed and stamina, quicker reflexes etc. May be you are suddenly in a situation where your having a male physical form, somehow saves the day... for you and everyone around. May be you are in a burning building. The extra strength and reach helps you save more people. Or some other such experience. And suddenly you become comfortable with the male form... dysphoria goes away... and the foundation for your wanting to CTB goes with it.
Are you sure that there is no such mild-altering experience you might come across?
It's a thought experiment. As much as concluding in all clarity that CTB is the answer, is also one.

I am just simply not interested in being male and not interested in not being able to live my ideal life. The male body is disgusting to me in every conceivable fashion from the body hair to the genitals. It's all gross and ugly. I've also never been one to like masculinity or "strength". To your point about saving other people, I am just not interested in living to the benefit of other people. To the point about saving myself, given the fact that I am 100% certain I would rather die than exist, I would be hopeful that I'd be able to overcome my SI and allow myself to burn to death in a building (or at least die of smoke inhalation) if the opportunity so presented itself.

I am very much aware that I can accomplish stuff as a biological male (depression not withstanding). That is not the issue. I simply don't want to nor do I have the motivation to care about myself. The things I want to accomplish as male, I could just as easily do as female, just without the self hate component and with the feeling of pride over my appearance and what I am.

In regards to "happy pills". If that is what I have to resort to to be functional, then this is certainly a life that is unworthy of me living. That would be akin to me living on life support or going through treatments for cancer, neither of which I would do under these set of circumstances. I am not a believer in the "cope trope" that so many therapists and pro life people rely on to convince others to stick around. I see as nothing more than a band-aid at best.

Whatever mild-altering experience I could live out is irrelevant. Even if I don't CTB, I will die eventually. The mild-altering experiences aren't worth going through life dealing with my internal turmoil, having to deal with triggers through out life and eventually being old and decrepit and dying of old age. Mentioned in my original post, before my dysphoria became unbearable, I wanted to once again experience a relationship (my best relationship I had was in 2014-2015, which I stupidly ended) and the rest that followed were trash for their own reasons. I am 100% confident a relationship is not in the cards for me anymore, given the fact that from 2018-2021 (before the dysphoria became unbearable) I made an effort to lose a lot of weight. I reached my lowest weight threshold in my adult weight (borderline 200 lbs) in an attempt to "attract" the opposite sex, but that didn't work. I am back to being around my 300 lbs self and I have zero reason to care about my body. Not even the chance of getting into a relationship matters to me since the thought of someone being romantically involved, much less being intimate with me grosses me out.

It is with total clarity, that I have determined CTBing to be the best course of action. I have reconsidered it multiple times through out the year and I always reach the same conclusion, even despite the attempted gaslighting my old therapist and members of the suicidewatch subreddit have attempted.
Nonetheless, as indicated by my disclaimer, I did not create this thread to gain another perspective about living. It is more or less here for thought dumping so I don't bottle it in.

I just view these thought exercises as veiled attempts to circumvent my disclaimer, regardless of whether or not it was your intention. Other people here have attempted that and I have 100% stood my ground on the matter just as I am doing here. There should be no indication or reason for anyone to believe I am going to change my mind on the matter.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

The extra strength and reach helps you save more people. Or some other such experience. And suddenly you become comfortable with the male form... dysphoria goes away... and the foundation for your wanting to CTB goes with it.

I had to reread this post to see if I missed anything, and this comment here makes it very clear you have no idea how dysphoria even works or why one would even be dysphoric in the first place. If this was the be all end all solution, people with dysphoria wouldn't CTB, much less feel the need to transition. What an absolute ignorant take to have. There are multiple reasons someone could have gender or sex dysphoria including hating the general physical characteristics of their sex. Dysphoria NEVER goes away, not even when one transitions. It just becomes more bearable to some people that do (depending on their overall goals of transitioning), but what you suggested is not going to make one comfortable in their own body or as their assigned sex/gender.

 

[raybd]

I had to reread this post to see if I missed anything, and this comment here makes it very clear you have no idea how dysphoria even works or why one would even be dysphoric in the first place. If this was the be all end all solution, people with dysphoria wouldn't CTB, much less feel the need to transition. What an absolute ignorant take to have. There are multiple reasons someone could have gender or sex dysphoria including hating the general physical characteristics of their sex. Dysphoria NEVER goes away, not even when one transitions. It just becomes more bearable to some people that do (depending on their overall goals of transitioning), but what you suggested is not going to make one comfortable in their own body or as their assigned sex/gender.

Sorry to disappoint you, but that's how the brain works for all people. Not one thing is solid in the brain. Why only dysphoria, anything fundamental to the human brain can go, come back, be relearned, simulated. At least in theory. To some extent in practice too, already. This is why "fake memories" can be created. If you have seen the movie "Inferno" the initial scenes are entirely about it. As I once heard a Nobel Laureate say, "If we can make new tissue, sure we can make new thoughts." In the thought experiment I gave, sure dysphoria can go away. Have I met anyone whose dysphoria went away? No, but that means nothing, because I don't specialize in that area. But, I am not far off from it either. I spent 2 decades researching in neurocognition, at some of the top places on both sides of the Atlantic - Max Planck included. Roughly in the area of "how shrinks can head-shrink" - why I am so skeptical of shrinks. And, in advocacy forums, I have been around transpeople for decades as well. How we add up discrete events into one continuous life experience is what give people their persona. Like it or not, that is where both the rationality and irrationality of people both come from. Why "twin" studies are so popular in the literature. I wish the human body, the brain included, and human civilization as we have made it, are more perfect. But they are not. Kirks are more common in nature than Spocks.

I just view these thought exercises as veiled attempts to circumvent my disclaimer, regardless of whether or not it was your intention. Other people here have attempted that and I have 100% stood my ground on the matter just as I am doing here. There should be no indication or reason for anyone to believe I am going to change my mind on the matter.

I have no reason to abet, endorse, abnegate or otherwise advise any conclusions you draw about your need to CTB. As I have said to others as well on several threads here, just be clear in your head. And who can ascertain if you are sufficiently clear when making a decision? Only you.
Which is why I said somewhere here that, even in the CTB space, may be the meticulous planners like you see on this site, are on stronger ground than the jumpers you see in the papers - who often seem to have taken to a sudden impulse.
My position on CTB is that the choice must be legally available to anyone that wants it. Shouldn't need you to have four doctor's letters and a move to OR or Switzerland. Once the choice is available, each individual must respect themselves enough to not lightly make that choice. With the right, the burden comes.

 

[FuneralCry]

I'm sorry that you have suffered so much in life. This life really is so unfair. I know that it is hard to carry on when you are in so much pain. I wish you the best in whatever happens.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

Sorry to disappoint you, but that's how the brain works for all people. Not one thing is solid in the brain. Why only dysphoria, anything fundamental to the human brain can go, come back, be relearned, simulated. At least in theory. To some extent in practice too, already. This is why "fake memories" can be created. If you have seen the movie "Inferno" the initial scenes are entirely about it. As I once heard a Nobel Laureate say, "If we can make new tissue, sure we can make new thoughts." In the thought experiment I gave, sure dysphoria can go away. Have I met anyone whose dysphoria went away? No, but that means nothing, because I don't specialize in that area. But, I am not far off from it either. I spent 2 decades researching in neurocognition, at some of the top places on both sides of the Atlantic - Max Planck included. Roughly in the area of "how shrinks can head-shrink" - why I am so skeptical of shrinks. And, in advocacy forums, I have been around transpeople for decades as well. How we add up discrete events into one continuous life experience is what give people their persona. Like it or not, that is where both the rationality and irrationality of people both come from. Why "twin" studies are so popular in the literature. I wish the human body, the brain included, and human civilization as we have made it, are more perfect. But they are not. Kirks are more common in nature than Spocks.

1. You don't specialize in dysphoria as you just admitted, so you cannot conclusively say that this is the cure for dysphoria. You're speaking on a subject you know nothing about. Being around transgender people doesn't mean you know anything about what their going through. It just sounds like more gaslighting and manipulation on your part. At best you can get people with dysphoria to "cope", but that no way means that their dysphoria is eliminated. Please stop attempting to be my therapist. If I wanted to continue to be gaslit and manipulated, I would not have quit therapy in the first place.

2. Movies are not evidence of your claim. You cannot successfully refute the validity of the gender dysphoria with a piece of cinema. To answer you, no I have not seen the movie inferno, nor do I care to.

3. Even if dysphoria could be treated the way you claimed, you made the unfortunate and incorrect assumption that I want to be content as a male. I have indicated in several posts here (though, you probably haven't paid much attention to other posts from me so may not have been aware of this part) and would rather CTB than be okay with being a male or transition (for vein reasons). Being a female for me would be so much better for me, especially from a self appreciation perspective, and no you are not invited to debate that with me.

4. Why in your previous post, despite my big hard to miss bold disclaimer stating I did not want advice did you insist on giving it anyways? You cannot save me, I do not want to be saved and I did not ask for "help" otherwise I would have put the "advice" flair in the original post and not the "vent" flair.

5. Your comment

Obviously, men have greater focus, physical strength, speed and stamina, quicker reflexes etc.

comes off as rather sexist and inappropriate. It's an example of toxic masculinity, which is another reason why I am ashamed to be a male. Thank you for continuing to reaffirm my opinion that (some) men are disgusting. You also implied I care about that stuff. I care more about feeling attractive, pretty privilege and not being repulsed by my own body.

6. I am once again not interested in your manipulation/gaslighting/failed attempt at on forum conversion therapy veiled as a thought experiment.

I'm sorry that you have suffered so much in life. This life really is so unfair. I know that it is hard to carry on when you are in so much pain. I wish you the best in whatever happens.

Thank you so much for the kind words as always. Please never stop with these posts as most of us here appreciate them. I am very sorry about what you are going through as well

 

[raybd]

6. I am once again not interested in your manipulation/gaslighting/failed attempt at on forum conversion therapy veiled as a thought experiment.

I have no interest in any conversion therapy of you or anyone. Why would someone skeptical (and I mean, professionally, as a researcher, not a layman) of the whole trade want to try the same with anyone?! I have always been amused how shrinks need shrinks, can be chuckle-headed on many everyday matters.. in olden times, it meant consulting wise people to learn from their wisdom - now you got this packaged breakfast cereal junk-fest called shrinkery. Btw, among the transgendered persons I've known over the years, I've found it sad that some of them deify their shrinks... because they hold the lever perhaps.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

I have no interest in any conversion therapy of you or anyone. Why would someone skeptical (and I mean, professionally, as a researcher, not a layman) of the whole trade want to try the same with anyone?! I have always been amused how shrinks need shrinks, can be chuckle-headed on many everyday matters.. in olden times, it meant consulting wise people to learn from their wisdom - now you got this packaged breakfast cereal junk-fest called shrinkery. Btw, among the transgendered persons I've known over the years, I've found it sad that some of them deify their shrinks... because they hold the lever perhaps.

Shrinks need shrinks probably because mental illness, depression, anxiety, so on doesn't descriminate against them. However, the one thing I will agree with you on is that therapy doesn't really help, at least not in my case, but that is likely because I don't want to cope.

 

[raybd]

1. You don't specialize in dysphoria as you just admitted, so you cannot conclusively say that this is the cure for dysphoria. You're speaking on a subject you know nothing about. Being around transgender people doesn't mean you know anything about what their going through.

"Know nothing about"? Look, not one thought in your head is set in stone. That's the science of it. Your dysphoria, what you call your hand, your leg, your next door neighbor. If no thought is absolute, then, nothing of the construct formed of that thought is absolute. Understand what I am saying first. We are talking science here - which doesn't change for you or me or the Tooth Fairy. Pain from dysphoria, is different from pain from a tumor. The latter exists in tissue. Lower animals have cancers too but they do not have rational thought - at least not to the extent humans have. But people in severe pain from dysphoria, as well as cancer, want to CTB. Why is that? That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. "Don't specialize" doesn't mean "know nothing" as you think. Do you think your dentist doesn't know more than you about Tylenol, though the dentist is normally not an MD?

2. Movies are not evidence of your claim. You cannot successfully refute the validity of the gender dysphoria with a piece of cinema. To answer you, no I have not seen the movie inferno, nor do I care to.

That movie was a simplification - and I used it as an example to elucidate. What do you want me to do on site like this, cite an esteened journal article? Look EVERY single thought every one has - is an inabsolute. Your personhood as well. Which includes your dysphoria. Same for me too. And all 8 billion schmucks on earth. Understand the science before having an opinion on it. If you haven't heard the word gravity till date, does its fact become any less true?

3. Even if dysphoria could be treated the way you claimed, you made the unfortunate and incorrect assumption that I want to be content as a male. I have indicated in several posts here (though, you probably haven't paid much attention to other posts from me so may not have been aware of this part) and would rather CTB than be okay with being a male or transition (for vein reasons). Being a female for me would be so much better for me, especially from a self appreciation perspective, and no you are not invited to debate that with me.

I never comment on personal choice or lived experience etc. It's unique for every single individual. When I was finishing high school, so many students' lives revolved around 2 things: college entry and prom. Not mine. I thought prom and all other graduation rituals was crock, and was assured entry to the school of my choice years earlier. So, I was essentially wasting the last 2 years of high school. I was one valedict who didn't show up to give the talk. Who is to say the conventional experience is right, or that my skeptical, dismissive experience is right?

omes off as rather sexist and inappropriate. It's an example of toxic masculinity, which is another reason why I am ashamed to be a male. Thank you for continuing to reaffirm my opinion that (some) men are disgusting. You also implied I care about that stuff. I care more about feeling attractive, pretty privilege and not being repulsed by my own body.

6. I am once again not interested in your manipulation/gaslighting/failed attempt at on forum conversion therapy veiled as a thought experiment.

Thank you so much for the kind words as always. Please never stop with these posts as most of us here appreciate them. I am very sorry about what you are going through as well

I have no interest in what you figure out, or how. I am definitely not here to "help" anyone. I will only say be clear in your head. In fact, I kind of like the old Spartan thinking - if you cannot keep your own head clear and body sound, may be you shouldn't exist.... Nature is always disposed towards fitness.
And "brute strength" is higher in the male, and that is all my example was about. There is no toxic anything in it, nor disrespect to any class of persons. You can think of any scenario where the "Stats quo" of you being you somehow helps, than your desired status, then may be it may not be the sin qua non you now think. Ironically, as happens in so many Hollywood rom-coms, the solution often lies in the obvious. Now rewind back to pain from dysphoria, and pain from cancer and ponder the difference.

Shrinks need shrinks probably because mental illness, depression, anxiety, so on doesn't descriminate against them. However, the one thing I will agree with you on is that therapy doesn't really help, at least not in my case, but that is likely because I don't want to cope.

The best shrinks I have known don't. They are also people whom you would call "wise" in general social contexts. It's the rank-and-file, "I got a diploma, so I am a shrink" battalion, which unfortunately who most people have access to, are themselves with shortcomings and need their own shrinks.
I think it's worth adding as a tailpiece that even dysphorias are unique. No two are the same. Because, it's rooted in 2 entities: an individual's perception of themselves, and their world-view. The deviation from the ideal they perceive positing the former on the latter, causes the pain. Since these two entities are unique, the internal details of the dysphoria will also vary from person to person. And since those vary, the solution to such dysphoria will also vary from person to person. But dysphoria is too fine-grained to generalize like saying "Tylenol works for most people." "Metamucil works for most people." and such. There's no point in believing any arbiter on such things, whether they agree with you or disagree with you. The science for all this shrinkery stuff is not fully developed yet.

 

[Pain In The Ass]

DISCLAIMER: Not interested in advice on how to better my life, not interested in being talked (or gaslit?) Into not CTBing, and not interested in debating why I won't treat my dysphoria. If you want my reasons why I won't, you can find various posts in my post history detailing it. It is not up for debate so don't bring it up here or anywhere else. This thread is strictly to let out my thoughts and nothing more. Words of consolation are welcome, though.


My family are blissfully unaware that my time is running out. My mom is focusing on her schoolwork and working 2 jobs, my sister will be leaving the inpatient program and going to a group home soon to hopefully recover, and my friend (that knows about my dysphoria) is making progress in leaving the US to go be with his wife. But none of them realize that I am on borrowed time, that my SI is growing thin and the guilt of leaving them behind is day by day getting outweighed by the pain of existing.

As it stands my life consists of sleep, wake up, eat, browse discord and SaSu, think about my ideal life and what could have been, think about how sweet it will be to exit and repeat. This same routine repeated until I am ready.

Unfortunately for them, there is nothing they could have done to prevent this from happening. This all came down to luck thirty something years ago. I just feel bad about the pain that I will eventually cause them, however something has to give. It's not up to me to suffer on the behest of anyone else. I stand to gain nothing worthwhile from doing so.

Before last May when my dysphoria became overpowering, i was hoping to fall in love with someone but these days the thought of anyone being romantically involved with me repulses me. Not because they are repulsive, but because for their sake it is repulsive. Me calling women attractive, no even me thinking it is extremely cringey as I am unworthy of forming those opinions.

I am a neet and i am deliberately one. The ironic thing is if I was born the way i wanted to, I'd be more than happy not to be a neet and leech of society. I have no reason to care about myself, no reason to plan a future for myself.

It's so draining watching those have the appearance and life that I want. I am not angry at them for being happy about it at all. I'd certainly be joyful of it. I'm mad that I was not born into circumstances where I can.

I can't wait until I tire myself out of the venting phase and I am ready to CTB. If someone is in too much pain to function, maybe the best thing is to put them out of their misery.

I love and respect your disclaimer - I think there should be an option on the site so it automatically displays at the top, like a signature

It's not up to me to suffer on the behest of anyone else

I deeply respect this.

I just feel bad about the pain that I will eventually cause them

I do wonder if suicide causes pain, as a load to carry, to be put on the shoulders of who should really be carrying that particular load - it just sorts things out more correctly

 

[NobodyKnowsMe]

DISCLAIMER: Not interested in advice on how to better my life, not interested in being talked (or gaslit?) Into not CTBing, and not interested in debating why I won't treat my dysphoria. If you want my reasons why I won't, you can find various posts in my post history detailing it. It is not up for debate so don't bring it up here or anywhere else. This thread is strictly to let out my thoughts and nothing more. Words of consolation are welcome, though.

You know, if I put up a big disclaimer like this and then someone ignored the request and kept coming at me over and over, they'd hit my Ignore list faster than me taking a breath.

I'm truly sorry you are in the situation you are in -- and truly sorry that some folks just can't seem to stop themselves from trying to save you despite everything that you have posted.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

I'm relatively sure you would, most likely, not like to hear what I think. So, I apologize for chiming in here, really, and will keep my observations short. I do promise there will be no attempt to try and talk you out of anything. These are only my observations, and some are only general in nature, not even specific to you. It is a public forum, after all, and you have as much right to call me out for my observations, and you have done so numerous times already, as I have to make them. When specific, my observations are only based on things you have already stated about yourself. And even though I feel you are going to peg this post as trying to gaslight you, all I can say is that I am not doing so, and it is not my intent to do so.

I believe that all MTF transgenders, who decide to transition, and do transition, and, subsequently, after post-transition, know that this choice was right for them, would have much preferred they been born cis-female, rather than "settling" (not meant in any derogatory way) on transition.

Cannot blame you for not wanting to take 'happy pills". I wouldn't, either.

Understanding that the male body can be successfully transformed to that of an outward female appearance, I think the vast amount of repulsiveness you feel for the male body comes more from self-hatred due to the obese nature of your own body, the self-hatred of which would still be present, I believe, if you were an obese cis-female. In other words, the condition of your body is the greatest hindrance to accomplishing anything, and that hindrance would still be there even if you were cis-female.

It is now accepted by the vast array of researchers, and science has shown, that all human embryos start life as females, and it isn't until about the 2nd month that fetal tests elaborate enough androgens to offset the maternal estrogens and maleness develops (Some biology of sexuality, M J Sherfey, 1974). To me, this makes it abundantly clear that we are all part male and part female, regardless of our gender identity. I think you have a very strong male identity. Your male identity is so strong, I believe, that it has fostered the erection of insurmountable barriers in order to maintain itself as the dominant identity. This is evidenced by your own statements that you once sought out to experience another relationship and, to do so, you reached your lowest adult weight threshold ever, which still resulted in failure, at which point you reverted back to not caring about yourself and, consequentially, your weight went back to the 300 lbs that it was prior to your "trying". As soon as the failure occurred, your male identity put the wall right back up, in the form of creating the barrier of weight, which simply reinforces the negative view you already have of yourself. It has created this illusion of an all or nothing proposition which holds you down in such a way as to keep you from even seeing over the barriers. It's the forest through the trees thing.

I know that you think you know more about the whys regarding all this shit we go through. If you don't know how you, yourself, feels, and what can make you happy, then how could anyone else possibly know? The truth of the matter is, they can't. I've been fighting this shit since I was around 4 years old, so I think I know something about it. I chose to fight, or maybe it wasn't really so much a choice I made, but, rather, a forced choice that I was coerced into making because of what had been ingrained into my psyche starting, even, at that young age, and reinforced continuously from all aspects of society. It is what it is. If I had known at 30 years old what I know now, I have no doubt that things would be a lot different for me now.

The only, and best, way to describe GD is that of war. A war between your two selves. When two entities are at war, what do each of them do? They try to outsmart each other, that's what. Each entity wants to win, and survive. It's no different with GD. I'm sorry if you can't see that, or maybe more correctly, you're not being allowed to see that. We have a male persona and a female persona and they are at war for some unknown reason. Take it for what it's worth, but your male persona, as I said already, is strong and is putting up one hell of a fight, and is the reason that you have all of these barriers in place, and is even the reason you only see the all or nothing proposition that you could not be happy, even if you were to transition, because you can't live as your ideal cis-female. It's just another brick in the barrier, and fosters your inability to even envision yourself living as a female. Likewise, another brick in this barrier is the idea that there must be perfection or nothing at all. Honestly, I don't know of one female who is perfect and I doubt any of them would say so, either. Every female on this planet, in their own eyes, will tell you that there is at least one thing that they don't like about themselves and would change if they could. You face a barrier that tells you that if perfection is not reachable, which it isn't, then there just isn't any point. That is as harsh a barrier as can be conceived. Yup, he's done a real number on you in order to stick around, and that barrier has gotten so high that it can't even be seen over.

The truth of the matter is it doesn't matter what anyone tells you. You're going to do whatever it is you do. Maybe it's already been determined. Fate, if you will. I don't know. Some more truth is that everyone, not just the people on SS, but everyone, everywhere, has their own demons to deal with. Even the perfect ones in your mind. And in the end it won't matter one bit if you, me, or anyone decides to cash out. Nope, not one bit. The world will continue for those who decide to stay. It is a world for the living. For the ones who want to be here. There is nothing that can be done for the ones who leave it, so it is better, and necessary, to expend any effort towards those still here, and rightfully so.

So, finally, closing this out (did me saying this bring even the most modest amount of happiness to you, even for a second?) let me say that your postings have had a profound impact on myself............how I view myself, my understanding of myself, where I made my mistakes. Your postings have forced me to do a much needed introspective of my life and I truly thank you for that. It doesn't change anything regarding where I am heading, though. And I do understand the hypocrisy in that. Although, I'm not cashing out only because of unresolved GD. There are, at least, a handful of entirely unrelated reasons. I guess the final truth is that it doesn't matter if you go. It doesn't matter if I go. It doesn't matter if anyone goes. The world will keep spinning regardless. And the laurels you make your stand on won't have have even the slightest impact on how this world works going forward. I think the real winners in this world are those that, somehow, figure out how to make the best of a bad situation. I wish I could have figured that out.

Don't hate me too much for writing this response. After all, I did devote quite a bit of time to it, which was time out of the limited amount that I have remaining. And I would say that I did bare my soul to a large degree, but I really can't say that since I'm not one to believe in souls, so let's just say I poured as much essence into this as I was able.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

I'm relatively sure you would, most likely, not like to hear what I think. So, I apologize for chiming in here, really, and will keep my observations short. I do promise there will be no attempt to try and talk you out of anything. These are only my observations, and some are only general in nature, not even specific to you. It is a public forum, after all, and you have as much right to call me out for my observations, and you have done so numerous times already, as I have to make them. When specific, my observations are only based on things you have already stated about yourself. And even though I feel you are going to peg this post as trying to gaslight you, all I can say is that I am not doing so, and it is not my intent to do so.

I do not have a problem with you posting here, nor with you in general. If I did, I would never bother to reply :)

I believe that all MTF transgenders, who decide to transition, and do transition, and, subsequently, after post-transition, know that this choice was right for them, would have much preferred they been born cis-female, rather than "settling" (not meant in any derogatory way) on transition.

100% agree they would, and I do believe most would prefer to transition as opposed to CTBing. My reasons for being female unfortunately make transitioning not an adequate choice. I am certainly not willing to start womanhood when I am relatively old (on the cusp for 40s). That defeats 1 of the purposes of wanting to be female. It's all or nothing for me and taking hormones + dilating for life does not interest me.

Understanding that the male body can be successfully transformed to that of an outward female appearance, I think the vast amount of repulsiveness you feel for the male body comes more from self-hatred due to the obese nature of your own body, the self-hatred of which would still be present, I believe, if you were an obese cis-female. In other words, the condition of your body is the greatest hindrance to accomplishing anything, and that hindrance would still be there even if you were cis-female.

Incorrect observation. Even a few years ago when I was nearing the 200 lbs mark and trying to be fit (for the purposes of attracting someone of the opposite sex), I still hated the male body, i hated looking other male's bodies (even the ones that were fit and deemed "hot" by society's standards) and I do not like anything about it. If I was cis-female, I'd have a reason to take care of myself and care about my appearance thus I would like to think I would not be obese.

It is now accepted by the vast array of researchers, and science has shown, that all human embryos start life as females, and it isn't until about the 2nd month that fetal tests elaborate enough androgens to offset the maternal estrogens and maleness develops (Some biology of sexuality, M J Sherfey, 1974). To me, this makes it abundantly clear that we are all part male and part female, regardless of our gender identity. I think you have a very strong male identity. Your male identity is so strong, I believe, that it has fostered the erection of insurmountable barriers in order to maintain itself as the dominant identity. This is evidenced by your own statements that you once sought out to experience another relationship and, to do so, you reached your lowest adult weight threshold ever, which still resulted in failure, at which point you reverted back to not caring about yourself and, consequentially, your weight went back to the 300 lbs that it was prior to your "trying". As soon as the failure occurred, your male identity put the wall right back up, in the form of creating the barrier of weight, which simply reinforces the negative view you already have of yourself. It has created this illusion of an all or nothing proposition which holds you down in such a way as to keep you from even seeing over the barriers. It's the forest through the trees thing.

You actually have no way of knowing if my dislike of the male body came back to when I was back to 300 lbs. In fact when my sex dysphoria festered I was still around the 220 LBS mark (last May) and I decided to just let myself go. I always hated the male body and always will and you have no basis for assuming otherwise. I did sought to seek another relationship at one point as that was what distracted me from my dysphoria back in 2014/2015 and despite my self hate, I tried to lose weight for other people (to attract the opposite sex) because I definitely wasn't doing it for myself. I hate myself. This whole calling it an illusion at best seems pretty copium.

I know that you think you know more about the whys regarding all this shit we go through. If you don't know how you, yourself, feels, and what can make you happy, then how could anyone else possibly know? The truth of the matter is, they can't. I've been fighting this shit since I was around 4 years old, so I think I know something about it. I chose to fight, or maybe it wasn't really so much a choice I made, but, rather, a forced choice that I was coerced into making because of what had been ingrained into my psyche starting, even, at that young age, and reinforced continuously from all aspects of society. It is what it is. If I had known at 30 years old what I know now, I have no doubt that things would be a lot different for me now.

I do know that being an attractive cis-female would make me happy and if you do not believe that or you do not want to believe that because you hope to simplify the problem, then that is your choice. I do not know how other people feel and what would make other people happy in regards to this, which is one of the reasons why I would never give advice to someone with GD to transition. It is not my place to tell someone that transitioning is right for them, just as it is no one else's place to tell me that transitoning is right for me vs CTBing.

The only, and best, way to describe GD is that of war. A war between your two selves. When two entities are at war, what do each of them do? They try to outsmart each other, that's what. Each entity wants to win, and survive. It's no different with GD. I'm sorry if you can't see that, or maybe more correctly, you're not being allowed to see that. We have a male persona and a female persona and they are at war for some unknown reason. Take it for what it's worth, but your male persona, as I said already, is strong and is putting up one hell of a fight, and is the reason that you have all of these barriers in place, and is even the reason you only see the all or nothing proposition that you could not be happy, even if you were to transition, because you can't live as your ideal cis-female. It's just another brick in the barrier, and fosters your inability to even envision yourself living as a female. Likewise, another brick in this barrier is the idea that there must be perfection or nothing at all. Honestly, I don't know of one female who is perfect and I doubt any of them would say so, either. Every female on this planet, in their own eyes, will tell you that there is at least one thing that they don't like about themselves and would change if they could. You face a barrier that tells you that if perfection is not reachable, which it isn't, then there just isn't any point. That is as harsh a barrier as can be conceived. Yup, he's done a real number on you in order to stick around, and that barrier has gotten so high that it can't even be seen over.

Maybe others have that issue, but I do not and is just an assumption on your part. I know what is attractive to me and I know what I would need in order to feel great about my appearance. I also know that I hate being cis-male and I am very unhappy about it., Why else would I get jealous of attractive females and not men that are in "shape"? You can choose to believe that I hate the male body because I am obese, but that doesn't change the fact that I feel the way I do. I will once again list off the reasons why I don't want to transition.

1. I do not want to dilate for the rest of my life
2. I do not want to take hormones for the rest of my life
3. I do not want a giant scar between my legs (this happens depending on the method of bottom surgery)
4. I do not want to look masculine. The hormones aren't guaranteed to eliminate all of the testosterone that riddled my body. I'd be basically a male-female blend. I don't want any sign of male on me.
5. I do not even want nor can I function day to day. NO shot am I going to function during this 5 year process when the results are questionable at best.
6. I do not want to start womanhood at the cusp of old age. I would not be afforded pretty privilege. If I was attractive cis-female, I'd likely still CTB around the 45/50 year age mark because I simply wouldn't want to grow old, have my body deteriorate and have people wipe my ass for the rest of my life. Dying old is simply not worth it and not an achievement.
7.I do not want to go through any of these surgeries.

To your point about every female telling me there is something about themselves they hate, at least they don't fully hate themselves and for the most part can fix it. I fully hate myself, I hate everything about being male, I hate all of the male body, I hate masculinity, I hate the male voice, I find the male appearance boring, I find men to not be "hot" or "attractive".

The truth of the matter is it doesn't matter what anyone tells you. You're going to do whatever it is you do. Maybe it's already been determined. Fate, if you will. I don't know. Some more truth is that everyone, not just the people on SS, but everyone, everywhere, has their own demons to deal with. Even the perfect ones in your mind. And in the end it won't matter one bit if you, me, or anyone decides to cash out. Nope, not one bit. The world will continue for those who decide to stay. It is a world for the living. For the ones who want to be here. There is nothing that can be done for the ones who leave it, so it is better, and necessary, to expend any effort towards those still here, and rightfully so.

I don't think it has been determined by fate. I think our assigned gender and whatnot have and certainly some people can choose to make the best of what they can, but I'm not willing to. I don't want this life and I am forfeiting it soon (hopefully).

I think the real winners in this world are those that, somehow, figure out how to make the best of a bad situation. I wish I could have figured that out.

You are right that some people, even the ones living the ideal lifestyles that I wish I could have other demons to deal with, but I know if I was in their shoes, I would at least not hate myself or the way I look and I can and would sustain myself with that.

Don't hate me too much for writing this response. After all, I did devote quite a bit of time to it, which was time out of the limited amount that I have remaining. And I would say that I did bare my soul to a large degree, but I really can't say that since I'm not one to believe in souls, so let's just say I poured as much essence into this as I was able.

I don't hate you. I just find it perplexing that despite us seemingly coming to a mutual understanding in the private chat, that you have posted in one of my last threads trying to hint at the idea of staying just to "mentor" other people with GD and then in other threads trying to convince me to cope because of fallacy of essence or whatever and in this thread, we ended up having this debate over gender dysphoria despite in the bold disclaimer saying I do not want to (though that is partially my fault for acknowledging this debate).

You claim not to try to sway me one way or the other, but if I can be candid, I don't really see what purpose mentioning a purpose such as mentoring other GD people, coping with essence, getting into the philosophies of why I hate the male body etc. serves other than to subtly convince me to stay or try these options. If you were content with me being set on my decision to CTB instead of any of this, there would be no reason to mention these, especially after we seemingly had this mutual understanding that I wasn't going to transition, I wasn't willing to stick around, etc. I assumed (and still do) that this was the goal since it's honestly something I'd do myself in your or anyone else's position, which is why I am really good at holding my ground on the matter. I came prepared for every trick in the book one might throw at me. If this really wasn't the intent, I apologize, but that's how it seems to me given that there is no other purpose and nothing else really to accomplish from doing so. I'm too used to people trying to convince me to stay and cope or transition.

tl;dr transitioning can help certain people, but it won't fit my standards. I am not interested.

 

[Capsaicin78]

DISCLAIMER: Not interested in advice on how to better my life, not interested in being talked (or gaslit?) Into not CTBing, and not interested in debating why I won't treat my dysphoria. If you want my reasons why I won't, you can find various posts in my post history detailing it. It is not up for debate so don't bring it up here or anywhere else. This thread is strictly to let out my thoughts and nothing more. Words of consolation are welcome, though.


My family are blissfully unaware that my time is running out. But none of them realize that I am on borrowed time, that my SI is growing thin and the guilt of leaving them behind is day by day getting outweighed by the pain of existing.

I can't wait until I tire myself out of the venting phase and I am ready to CTB. If someone is in too much pain to function, maybe the best thing is to put them out of their misery.

I am in the exact same situation. I ordered my SN yesterday, and currently in the process of getting an AE and some benzos... Hopefully it works this June ( maybe 18th June, would fit my profile)

 

[WorthlessTrash]

I love and respect your disclaimer - I think there should be an option on the site so it automatically displays at the top, like a signature

I deeply respect this.

I do wonder if suicide causes pain, as a load to carry, to be put on the shoulders of who should really be carrying that particular load - it just sorts things out more correctly

I appreciate that fully :)

Suicide indeed causes loved one's pain, but those that assume the load (the loved ones) aren't always the ones that should carry it. In my opinion, the loved ones should prefer the option for us to CTB over us just living in a constant state of emotional or physical pain.

You know, if I put up a big disclaimer like this and then someone ignored the request and kept coming at me over and over, they'd hit my Ignore list faster than me taking a breath.

I'm truly sorry you are in the situation you are in -- and truly sorry that some folks just can't seem to stop themselves from trying to save you despite everything that you have posted.

I feel like this disclaimer is interpreted as me baiting or inviting people to debate this, so maybe putting the disclaimer up was a waste of time.

I'm not fully 100% sure that's what they are trying to do, but it doesn't seem like any other purpose is achieved by bringing up dysphoria treatments and whatnot. Granted, I also assume that's what they're doing because it's something I'd do in their position. Maybe I am projecting? Idk.

I am in the exact same situation. I ordered my SN yesterday, and currently in the process of getting an AE and some benzos... Hopefully it works this June ( maybe 18th June, would fit my profile)

Any particular reason for that date? :(

 

[Capsaicin78]

Any particular reason for that date? :(

The day xxxtentacion died. Would be aesthetic imo. Kinda like a fullfilled profile on this forum lol

 

[WorthlessTrash]

The day xxxtentacion died. Would be aesthetic imo. Kinda like a fullfilled profile on this forum lol

Poetic I guess you could say lol

 

[brokensoulsdiealone]

Beautiful souls like yourself never get understood they get pushed to the left like a box to be left sitting on the corner untouched people deserve to have there pain be heard and expressed its only when we lose something that we cherish it the most

 

[WorthlessTrash]

Beautiful souls like yourself never get understood they get pushed to the left like a box to be left sitting on the corner untouched people deserve to have there pain be heard and expressed its only when we lose something that we cherish it the most

I appreciate the kind words. Thank you very much, and I hope people don't brush aside your troubles either

 

[lotusflowers13]

DISCLAIMER: Not interested in advice on how to better my life, not interested in being talked (or gaslit?) Into not CTBing, and not interested in debating why I won't treat my dysphoria. If you want my reasons why I won't, you can find various posts in my post history detailing it. It is not up for debate so don't bring it up here or anywhere else. This thread is strictly to let out my thoughts and nothing more. Words of consolation are welcome, though.


My family are blissfully unaware that my time is running out. My mom is focusing on her schoolwork and working 2 jobs, my sister will be leaving the inpatient program and going to a group home soon to hopefully recover, and my friend (that knows about my dysphoria) is making progress in leaving the US to go be with his wife. But none of them realize that I am on borrowed time, that my SI is growing thin and the guilt of leaving them behind is day by day getting outweighed by the pain of existing.

As it stands my life consists of sleep, wake up, eat, browse discord and SaSu, think about my ideal life and what could have been, think about how sweet it will be to exit and repeat. This same routine repeated until I am ready.

Unfortunately for them, there is nothing they could have done to prevent this from happening. This all came down to luck thirty something years ago. I just feel bad about the pain that I will eventually cause them, however something has to give. It's not up to me to suffer on the behest of anyone else. I stand to gain nothing worthwhile from doing so.

Before last May when my dysphoria became overpowering, i was hoping to fall in love with someone but these days the thought of anyone being romantically involved with me repulses me. Not because they are repulsive, but because for their sake it is repulsive. Me calling women attractive, no even me thinking it is extremely cringey as I am unworthy of forming those opinions.

I am a neet and i am deliberately one. The ironic thing is if I was born the way i wanted to, I'd be more than happy not to be a neet and leech of society. I have no reason to care about myself, no reason to plan a future for myself.

It's so draining watching those have the appearance and life that I want. I am not angry at them for being happy about it at all. I'd certainly be joyful of it. I'm mad that I was not born into circumstances where I can.

I can't wait until I tire myself out of the venting phase and I am ready to CTB. If someone is in too much pain to function, maybe the best thing is to put them out of their misery.

This very well describes how I feel. I just don't have any interest in furthering myself because I know my life will eventually end in suicide.