the Universe is evil

[Darkover]

You could say good and evil don't objectively exist, sure, but I think humans decide meaning and we have generally collectively conceded a common definition of what "evil" is. I won't bother elaborating there. I don't have anything original to say but I'd say any world built on the following principles is pretty evil.

• nevermind human nature, history and society, that's a given
• We exist thanks to a 3 billion year sifting process of lifeforms brutally hunting and ripping each other apart or being obliterated by their environment. We must end life to survive. Nature hunts and viciously hurts itself endlessly in order to continue. The intelligence level of animals is irrelevant, only capacity for suffering is.
• Parasitism is the most popular lifestyle on the planet. Half of life is parasitic at some stage of its lifecycle. Not including the more nuanced, non-literal definitions of Parasitism that you can apply to humanity collectively or humans individually.
• We are driven primarily by attachment in a universe where everything we develop attachment towards will decay, wither and die. Nothing lasts.
• We are programmed to think in terms of equity and fairness. Go stroll through a child cancer ward. Etc etc etc etc etc.
• just pain of any kind honestly, and the fact that life indiscriminately fucks Everything with it for no good reason. I get so tired of religious(etc, etc, etc) people trying to justify the fundamental cruelty of this place as somehow justifiable by some end. If you think this universe was created by something, I think it takes some serious mental gymnastics to ignore the fact that that something would have to be unspeakably cruel.

"evil" to me is the infliction of harm/suffering on the undeserving/innocents. I understand that conscious intent is neccesary to really say something is ""evil"", but I'm using the term "evil" to describe an unconscious system because as feeling beings I don't think that it's unreasonable for us to apply 'feeling' terms because...well, we're 100% feeling entities even if the universe isn't.
We don't really know how common life is, but I'm just going by what we're seeing based on our experience on this rock.
Hunting to survive does not make an animal evil, no. But I would call a system that is built on suffering to perpetuate its existence evil. Exactly, that is what life is about. And that's what disgusts me.

 

[conarc]

Could not agree more.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think the major problem is if there is in fact a God/ creator/ intention behind all this. I find it very difficult to see how they aren't sadistic, narcissistic and utterly immoral.

If it's just chance though- then- it's bad luck I suppose. Not sure it's evil though. It's just whatever worked best for that species to dominate. Some animals form really cute symbiotic relationships where both benefit. It's just a shame that it isn't more widespread.

Personally- I think there does have to be intention for something to be evil. It's difficult when it comes to animals even. Cats can be sadistic. They don't just hunt when they are hungry. They enjoy killing things. It excites them to see an animal in pain. I've witnessed it first hand. A neighbours cat got hold of a blackbird before I could do anything. The poor things shrieks brought all the other cats to the garden. Is that cat being evil? Difficult to say- it's acting on instinct. Honing it's hunting skills- even though it doesn't need to- it is likely well fed. Plus- domestic cats often know their humans don't like them killing things. Of course- if some entity has designed it to be like that- that's evil. But if not- what is at fault?

Are natural disasters evil? Is weather evil? Some natural phenomena benefit some animals and kill others. How do you decide then- whether it is evil or good? Is death evil? Creatures mourn their dead but without death, we'd suffer even more. Of course- life is the start of this whole shit show. I still think it's personal experience that defines whether a life experience is good or bad but no question- there are unkind and unfair elements here.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

I think the universe is just indifferent to us because how can we say its evil when we'd have to figure out if the universe has an intention to begin with. With that being said, I still don't know how anyone could believe in any sort of creator that is empathetic to the human struggle to survive and cares a great deal to rectify it

I get so tired of religious(etc, etc, etc) people trying to justify the fundamental cruelty of this place as somehow justifiable by some end. If you think this universe was created by something, I think it takes some serious mental gymnastics to ignore the fact that that something would have to be unspeakably cruel.

This was one of the biggest things that got me to question the whole notion of any sort of loving God. There's just so much suffering on this planet that I don't know how anyone could ever allow themselves to reconcile it as the grand plan of a creator which will turn out for the better, an indifferent creator or even a sadistic one would be more plausible than any that gives any level of concern to our struggles as sentient beings.

 

[Darkover]

Are natural disasters evil? Is weather evil? Some natural phenomena benefit some animals and kill others. How do you decide then- whether it is evil or good? Is death evil?

you make a good point the weather and the universe isn't conscious so how could they be consider evil, but humans and most definitely some animals are conscious, we kill animals for food so doesn't that make us evil, also has you have metioned some animals kill for the fun of it doesn't that also make them evil , human beings stand by and let this evil exist and even perpetuate evil continuely and indefinitely as is evident by the constant wars we inflict on each other, shouldn't we all just put an end to this evil insane madness? evil wouldnt be allowed to exits not on my watch

 

[Forever Sleep]

you make a good point the weather and the universe isn't conscious so how could they be consider evil, but humans and most definitely some animals are conscious, we kill animals for food so doesn't that make us evil, also has you have metioned some animals kill for the fun of it doesn't that also make them evil , human beings stand by and let this evil exist and even perpetuate evil continuely and indefinitely as is evident by the constant wars we inflict on each other, shouldn't we all just put an end to this evil insane madness? evil wouldnt be allowed to exits not on my watch

The scary thing is- I wonder if it's the more intelligent animals that are the most knowingly sadistic- chimps, killer wales, cats, humans. That said- jewel wasps are pretty unpleasant- stunning other insects, dragging them into burrows, laying eggs in them and sealing them up to be devoured alive by their young. Yeah- you have to have a pretty sick mind to come up with that- if it was intentional...

 

[Minsu]

Amen. Could not agree more

 

[SexyIncél]

That said- jewel wasps are pretty unpleasant- stunning other insects, dragging them into burrows, laying eggs in them and sealing them up to be devoured alive by their young.

Hahaha, that's a great example for Life is Beautiful™ weirdos. If you excuse the language, Mother Nature's a bitch, and Father Universe's a perv

I think the major problem is if there is in fact a God/ creator/ intention behind all this. I find it very difficult to see how they aren't sadistic, narcissistic and utterly immoraHoning it's hunting skills- even though it doesn't need to- it is likely well fed.

Yeah, reminds me of when a cat went up a barn & brought down a bird it slaughtered. Laid it at my feet, expecting me to be pleased at the offering. Disturbed af, I bowed & thanked the cat, pointlessly explaining that I can't eat it. Seemingly disappointed, it took the carcass away

Cats are fucking killers. For many animals, they're like building-sized Freddy Krugers. tbh I've sometimes imagined a cat attacking a curious little animal I cared about, and wondered how I'd tear it apart while its claws sliced my limbs into ribbons

 

[Captive_Mind515]

And it's needlessly fcuking long as well... don't forget that part.

Why the hell do we need to live for 80 to 100 bloody years? We reach our peak physical maturity at around late 20's roughly... (which is ridiculously slow compared to other animals btw) then spend decades gradually fading away and decaying.

Give me the lifespan of a field mouse any day.

 

[sserafim]

It is. Life is just a cruel competition of survival of the fittest, of winners and losers. Even though people think they're above other animals, we're still the same at our very core. Life is a game where the strong win and the weak lose. I don't know why our universe was designed this way. There's so much suffering. And for no good reason. Humans are literally the most intelligent creatures on earth. You would think they would have put an end to the suffering of their fellow species, and let everyone live in peace and harmony instead, in a world where people are actually happy and glad to be alive. But no, due to our current day society, more and more people are suffering and living lives of despair. Life didn't have to be like this. Whoever created this universe must be sadistic af.

And it's needlessly fcuking long as well... don't forget that part.

Why the hell do we need to live for 80 to 100 bloody years? We reach our peak physical maturity at around late 20's roughly... (which is ridiculously slow compared to other animals btw) then spend decades gradually fading away and decaying.

Give me the lifespan of a field mouse any day.

Literally! I'm def not gonna live past 25. I think it's just so sad that people grow old and decay. Why do we have to enter autumn and winter? I wish I could stay in eternal summer. I want to die young (and beautiful), and I truly believe that youth/adolescence is the most beautiful moment in life. I mean that it is (or was) the best time of our lives (at least for me). My days were carefree and I had no major stresses other than studying/school (and getting bullied which sucked but still isn't as bad as being an adult in society), it can't compare to the hardships of adult life. I would give anything to be a kid again and relive my life back then. I would make better choices too, which hopefully would change my life for the better and put me on a different path as opposed to the one I'm on now. I want to relive the moments where I felt free and when I felt like I could do anything and be anything.

 

[FuneralCry]

It's something very evil, existence is nothing more than a horrific mistake, it's just a futile cycle of endless suffering and senseless cruelty. Such a thing should never exist, there should just be permanent nothingness instead as nothing can be harmed by it.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

And it's needlessly fcuking long as well... don't forget that part.

Why the hell do we need to live for 80 to 100 bloody years? We reach our peak physical maturity at around late 20's roughly... (which is ridiculously slow compared to other animals btw) then spend decades gradually fading away and decaying.

Give me the lifespan of a field mouse any day.

I can get behind a short lifespan instead of that of a human where you spend a large majority of time decaying slowly.

 

[sserafim]

It's something very evil, existence is nothing more than a horrific mistake, it's just a futile cycle of endless suffering and senseless cruelty. Such a thing should never exist, there should just be permanent nothingness instead as nothing can be harmed by it.

Literally, like what even is the point of our existence? Why are we even here on this earth, like for what good reason? I certainly didn't ask to be here and if I could simply cease to exist I would in a heartbeat. There is no meaningfulness or purpose to being alive and existence was a terrible mistake. I wish I were never born…

 

[DEATH IS FREEDOM]

To me it seems that human life on Earth is evil. Man is destroying Earth with environmental degradation and overpopulation. There is so much suffering in the world because of humans: wars, migration, extinction of species, diseases and pandemics, world poverty, homelessness, starvation, injusticies, bullying, involuntary loneliness and crime. There has also been much human suffering in history: wars, torture, diseases and pandemics, injusticies, poverty, crime, hard labor and concentration camps. And the fact that we are here on Sanctioned Suicide - is it not due to evil?

 

[idk3]

I'm just hoping a huge asteroid ends it all.

 

[MatrixPrisoner]

I think the major problem is if there is in fact a God/ creator/ intention behind all this. I find it very difficult to see how they aren't sadistic, narcissistic and utterly immoral.

If it's just chance though- then- it's bad luck I suppose. Not sure it's evil though. It's just whatever worked best for that species to dominate. Some animals form really cute symbiotic relationships where both benefit. It's just a shame that it isn't more widespread.

Personally- I think there does have to be intention for something to be evil. It's difficult when it comes to animals even. Cats can be sadistic. They don't just hunt when they are hungry. They enjoy killing things. It excites them to see an animal in pain. I've witnessed it first hand. A neighbours cat got hold of a blackbird before I could do anything. The poor things shrieks brought all the other cats to the garden. Is that cat being evil? Difficult to say- it's acting on instinct. Honing it's hunting skills- even though it doesn't need to- it is likely well fed. Plus- domestic cats often know their humans don't like them killing things. Of course- if some entity has designed it to be like that- that's evil. But if not- what is at fault?

Are natural disasters evil? Is weather evil? Some natural phenomena benefit some animals and kill others. How do you decide then- whether it is evil or good? Is death evil? Creatures mourn their dead but without death, we'd suffer even more. Of course- life is the start of this whole shit show. I still think it's personal experience that defines whether a life experience is good or bad but no question- there are unkind and unfair elements here.

Perhaps our creator is a devil and not a god, as many of us have been programmed to believe.

 

[hikikomori-]

I think the major problem is if there is in fact a God/ creator/ intention behind all this. I find it very difficult to see how they aren't sadistic, narcissistic and utterly immoral.

Life feels like a cruel joke if it was created by some sadistic god/creator who just threw 4 amino acids together 4 billion years ago and went to go bowling or something. Whatever it is cannot intervene with what it created and has a 99.9% species failure rate, doesn't seem like a very intelligent designer.

 

[hi-okbye]

you make a good point the weather and the universe isn't conscious so how could they be consider evil, but humans and most definitely some animals are conscious, we kill animals for food so doesn't that make us evil, also has you have metioned some animals kill for the fun of it doesn't that also make them evil , human beings stand by and let this evil exist and even perpetuate evil continuely and indefinitely as is evident by the constant wars we inflict on each other, shouldn't we all just put an end to this evil insane madness? evil wouldnt be allowed to exits not on my watch

I don't necessarily think animals killing for fun is evil. Most animals don't realize the weight of what they're doing, that they're fully taking away a life for good, a life that did nothing to be hurt. Instead I find whoever/whatever made the world that way evil. That we have to live that way. Even if it was important for animals to kill others to survive, why is so much pain needed. Pain might be needed in order to warn the animal "hey your facing danger right now", but pain to the extent that we feel it, i find that unessiary. Especially emotional pain, I find that completely unessicary.

 

[SovietSuicide]

The highest divine principle is the Monad. The Monad is described as a "monarchy with nothing above it". He is supreme, absolute, eternal, infinite, perfect, holy and self-sufficient. However, his transcendent ineffability is also emphasized. He is neither quantifiable nor can his qualities ever truly be described. The Monad exists in inconceivable perfection.

The Monad produces from his thought a feminine divine entity or principle named Barbelo. She is described as "the first thought", and the "image" of the Monad. While Barbelo is always referred to as a "she", she is also described as both the primordial mother and father. She is also regarded as "the first man", "Holy Spirit", "Mother/Father" and described in various terms of androgyny. She is the first of a class of beings referred to as the Aeons, and an exchange between herself and the Monad brings the other Aeons into being. Additionally, the properties of Light and Mind are born from the Monad's reflection on Barbelo. Light is synonymous with Christ, also called "Christ the Autogenes". The Light and the Mind engage in further creative activity, aided by and glorifying the superior principles of Barbelo and the Monad. Together, they bring forth further Aeons and powers.

Eventually, one of the Aeons, Sophia "of the Epinoia", disrupts the harmony of these processes by engaging in creative activity without the participation or consent of the Spirit of the Monad and without the aid of a male consort. The creative power of her thought produces an entity named Yaldabaoth, who is the first of a series of incomplete, demonic entities called the Archons. Yaldabaoth, whose character is malevolent and arrogant, also has a grotesque form. His head is that of a lion while he possesses a serpentine body. Recognizing the deformed, imperfect nature of her offspring, Sophia attempts to conceal it somewhere where the other Aeons will not discover it. The act of hiding Yaldabaoth also has the result that Yaldabaoth himself remains ignorant of the upper world and the other Aeons.

Despite the fact that Yaldabaoth possesses only a single parent and was created without the consent of the Spirit of the Monad, he is powerful enough to mimic the creative processes of the superior Aeons. He creates a whole host of other Archons, each of whom share his own basically deficient character, and creates a world for them to inhabit. This world is fundamentally inferior to the world above. It is fashioned out of darkness, but animated by light stolen from Sophia. The result is a world that is neither "light nor dark" but is instead "dim". In his arrogance and ignorance, Yaldabaoth declares himself the sole and jealous God of this realm.

Recognizing the imperfection of Yaldabaoth and his counterfeit world, Sophia repents. In forgiveness of her error, the Spirit of the Monad assists the other Aeons and powers in an attempt to redeem Sophia and her bastard creation. During this process Yaldabaoth and his Archons hear the voice of the Monad's Spirit. While they are terrified by the voice, its echo leaves a trace of an image of the Spirit on the "waters" that form the roof of their realm. Hoping to harness this power for themselves, they attempt to create a copy of this image. The end result of this process is the first human man, Adam.

Recognizing an opportunity to retrieve the light imprisoned in the darkness of Yaldabaoth and his world, Sophia and agents of the higher order, referred to variously as the "plenoria" or the "Epinoia", and later as the "pleroma", devise a scheme. They trick Yaldabaoth into blowing his own spiritual essence into Adam. This simultaneously animates Adam and empties Yaldabaoth of the portion of his being derived from Sophia.

Seeing the luminosity, intelligence and general superiority of the now animate Adam, Yaldabaoth and the Archons regret their creation and do their best to imprison or dispose of him. Failing to do so, they then attempt to neutralize him by placing him in the Garden of Eden. In this narrative, the Garden of Eden is a false paradise where the fruit of the trees is sin, lust, ignorance, confinement and death. While they give Adam access to the Tree of Life, they conceal the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. According to this narrative, the Tree of Knowledge actually represents the penetration of the positive forces of the higher world and the Epinoia into Yaldabaoth's realm.

At this point in the narrative, Christ reveals to John that it was he who caused Adam to consume the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. Additionally, it is revealed that Eve is a helper sent by agents of the higher order to help liberate the light imprisoned in Yaldabaoth's creation and in Adam. She is created when Yaldabaoth attempts to draw the light out of Adam. This results in the creation of the female body. When Adam perceives her, he sees a reflection of his own essence and is freed from the bewitching power of Yaldabaoth.

The narrative then details Yaldabaoth's attempts to regain control over the essence of Light. His primary scheme is to initiate the activity of human reproduction, by which he hopes to create new human bodies inhabited by a counterfeit spirit. This counterfeit spirit allows Yaldabaoth and his agents to deceive the human race, keeping them in ignorance of their true nature, and is the primary means by which Yaldabaoth keeps humanity in subjugation. It is the source of all earthly evil and confusion, and causes people to die "not having found truth and without knowing the God of truth".

An alternative creation story - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocryphon_of_John