Discussion The three ingredients for suicide (Joiner's theory)

[Mistake of Nature]

Suicidologist Thomas Joiner theorizes that three conditions need to be met for a completed suicide to occur:

1. Believing that you are a burden to others
2. Feeling alienated from others
3. Acquiring the ability to inflict fatal injury to yourself (i.e., to go against your SI)

The first two result in the desire to CTB, but in order to put those thoughts into action, an individual would also need meet the third condition.

A couple of articles for further reading if you're interested: (1) (2)

Any thoughts on this theory? Where would you put yourself in relation to the three conditions? I've already met the first two (or else I probably wouldn't be on this forum lol), so I'm now working on meeting that third condition.

 

[Intelligent Ape]

Just paraphrase a well known aphorism: "When I hear 'Suicidology'... I release the safety catch on my Browning")

 

[KiraLittleOwl]

It's a neet theory but I think suicide is more complicated than that.
People who have plenty support and surrounded with love kill themselves, people who are successful and provide for their family kill themselves, people who are afraid to die kill themselves.
I think the major factor is when pain (emotional or physical) becomes so unbearable that the only coping mechanism left is suicide.
The other major factor is access to suicide methods.

 

[braketimez]

It's a neet theory but I think suicide is more complicated than that.
People who have plenty support and surrounded with love kill themselves, people who are successful and provide for their family kill themselves, people who are afraid to die kill themselves.
I think the major factor is when pain (emotional or physical) becomes so unbearable that the only coping mechanism left is suicide.
The other major factor is access to suicide methods.

I agree. This theory is way too simplistic.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Joiner seems to have a bias. He began his studies because his father ctb'd, and his father was ill, older, and fit the criteria of being a burden. While Joiner's theory applies to some, it is not universal, but appears to apply to only one group of people who follow through on ideation.

 

[Quinlor]

Thanks, makes sense to me this theory. The theories are always trying to simplify the reality, and actually this is main function of a theory. From it, then you can analyze specific cases and the nuances of each.

 

[Soul]

There are three areas where two of the bubbles overlap, but he's only labelled one of them ("desire for suicide"). What would the right label be for the other two? "Ready to die" and "worth more dead"?

Sorry - that's all immaterial when the concept is so oversimplified.

 

[Kumachan]

1. No
2. Just a little really.
3. Well i hope i can do it

I think the main ingredient here is hopelessness.

 

[Rockman]

1 no
2 yes
3 yes

 

[InTheAirTonight]

Wow. It's fucking spot on for me. May not apply to everyone but I support this theory 100%

 

[avoid_slow_death]

Huh, I have felt all three most of my life. And have attempted seriously several times. Just got unlucky and/or poorly planned.

 

[GiveUp]

Suicidologist Thomas Joiner theorizes that three conditions need to be met for a completed suicide to occur:

1. Believing that you are a burden to others
2. Feeling alienated from others
3. Acquiring the ability to inflict fatal injury to yourself (i.e., to go against your SI)

The first two result in the desire to CTB, but in order to put those thoughts into action, an individual would also need meet the third condition.

A couple of articles for further reading if you're interested: (1) (2)

Any thoughts on this theory? Where would you put yourself in relation to the three conditions? I've already met the first two (or else I probably wouldn't be on this forum lol), so I'm now working on meeting that third condition.

I read around this and I agree with these three points. Number 3 was especially interesting (desensitized to violence, overcoming the fear of death and being competent to carry out a suicide method) to explain the high numbers of suicide in soldiers. I have also noticed that I've become desensitized to violence and can watch horror films nowadays, whereas I couldnt watch horror films before I became suicidal. I'm also no longer bothered by physical pain and don't worry about death being painful.

 

[Mistake of Nature]

Wow. It's fucking spot on for me. May not apply to everyone but I support this theory 100%

Same here! Although I agree with others that it's simplified and that it doesn't explain every single case of suicide, I relate so much to it and it gave me clarity about my own situation.