The suffering of others is enough to make me want to ctb

[BottomlessPit]

I once read about the case of Junko Furuta, a 16 year old Japanese girl who was kidnapped and tortured for 44 days before finally being killed. "Torture" is almost too light of a word to describe what so many people did to her. Merely reading about what she went through was deeply disturbing to me, it kept coming back to my mind over and over again. It doesn't even feel right to link the article tbh.

Just take a look at the Wikipedia page for Unit 731. Or the Nanjing Massacre. Every genocide ever. Some people hear about these things without drawing any conclusions about the world we inhabit. How could anyone live happily in a world where even a few of these things are possible? Even when I have not experienced these things first hand, I still feel wounded reading about them.

Nature doesn't care about our pain receptors, we are always at the mercy of random circumstances. And for what? Survival for survival's sake? No thanks. I suppose this is what differentiates me from normal people. I am free to leave this shithole because I'm not bound to this place by an irrational will to live.

 

[yive]

the world must be destroyed

 

[WornOutLife]

Yeah, the suffering and nonsense of this world is ridiculous. There should be nothing rather than something.

Or at least, no humans so that this planet is a better place.

 

[FuneralCry]

Humans are capable of such evil. I have heard about so much awful true crime cases, I feel ashamed to be human. All the suffering people go through is just for the sake of it, as life has no purpose, we are born just to die. It would be better not to exist at all.

 

[Debbie Northampton U]

So much cruelty, I get what you mean because I love animals, I cringe and get depressed at what people can do. My favourite books to read are of serial killers weirdly enough - I'm reading one now about the Monster of Florence. The world sickens me and my one hope is that an asteroid blows the Earth to pieces one day. The world needs to explode and be done with.

 

[omoidarui]

For some reason, the unfairness of life makes me think it can't actually all be real. Literally. I don't know whether it's healthy, but I've really entertained the concept of solipsism recently; basically, everyone exists within a different simulation catered to only themselves. We're all *real* but none of us actually interact with each other because we all exist within our own realities specially designed to "develop" us, so everything happening around us and on the news is specially implanted in our simulation to make us feel a certain way/learn something. Everyone in our simulations is an NPC version of the real person, but we're not supposed to know this.

this was being discussed on chat the other day, lol. i take some comfort in the possibility of this being a thing because it means stuff on the news that stresses me out isn't actually real. whether this belief is true or not, it's a coping mechanism for me to deal with how seemingly awful the world is.

 

[Debbie Northampton U]

For some reason, the unfairness of life makes me think it can't actually all be real. Literally. I don't know whether it's healthy, but I've really entertained the concept of solipsism recently; basically, everyone exists within a different simulation catered to only themselves. We're all *real* but none of us actually interact with each other because we all exist within our own realities specially designed to "develop" us, so everything happening around us and on the news is specially implanted in our simulation to make us feel a certain way/learn something. Everyone in our simulations is an NPC version of the real person, but we're not supposed to know this.

this was being discussed on chat the other day, lol. i take some comfort in the possibility of this being a thing because it means stuff on the news that stresses me out isn't actually real. whether this belief is true or not, it's a coping mechanism for me to deal with how seemingly awful the world is.

I love this type of thing.

 

[Deleted_9cKnXB34QG]

Earlier this year I found series called "Disturbing Things from Around the Internet" on YT, in one of the videos the author talks about a little boy who's been tortured for years and then starved to death by his parents... his entire life was nothing but pure misery and he didn't even do anything to deserve it - he was simply born.
This place is horrifying and so are our species. Horror stories? scary movies? monsters? ghosts? Pff, just look at reality, there's nothing more terrifying than that, not even fucking close.

 

[Debbie Northampton U]

This is Hell?

 

[AE2021]

I totally agree. Saw human to human cruelty clearly during my childhood. When I was older I started learning about the endlessly cruel ways in which humans treat animals, both domestic and wild. I became even more disgusted with human beings. Animals were my refuge when I was growing up. As sad as it sounds, my dogs were where I got unconditional love as a child. It certainly was not from family members. This planet is not for me. It will not be a challenge when it comes time to check out of here. I am ready.

 

[Neowise]

I once read about the case of Junko Furuta, a 16 year old Japanese girl who was kidnapped and tortured for 44 days before finally being killed.

I googled it and read about it. Incredible... It is truly cruel what humans are capable of doing just for their own entertainment.

Corona should mutate and become 100% lethal, killing all humans on earth to finally end our species's misery.

 

[Superdeterminist]

Exactly. People give all sorts of reasons for why suffering exists, such as "you can't have happiness without it" or "it's the result of human free will". I don't buy those arguments, but even if we grant those arguments, it doesn't matter. The main point is that suffering exists, and that makes existing a problem.

 

[motel rooms]

People give all sorts of reasons for why suffering exists, such as "you can't have happiness without it"

That's a real good one, isn't it? It's like arguing that you can't enjoy the taste of chocolate if you've never eaten a piece of shit

 

[TheAmazingCriswell]

There seems to be too much focus on human suffering/man-made suffering. One must not forget that nature itself is inherently cruel; even if mankind were to be purged from the surface of the earth, animals would still suffer at the hands (paws, claws...) of each other. Why anyone thinks that life in general is something to be preserved is beyond me (although one might be able to make a case for sponges and the likes).

 

[motel rooms]

There seems to be too much focus on human suffering/man-made suffering. One must not forget that nature itself is inherently cruel; even if mankind were to be purged from the surface of the earth, animals would still suffer at the hands (paws, claws...) of each other.

Oh, but good Christians believe that nature wasn't cruel before the first humans used their free will to sin by eating the forbidden fruit; it was a paradise where lions lay next to lambs

 

[TheAmazingCriswell]

Oh, but good Christians believe that nature wasn't cruel before the first humans used their free will to sin by eating the forbidden fruit; it was a paradise where lions lay next to lambs

I am not well read enough in theological matters to confirm the veracity of the above statement, but even if it were true, the extinction of humankind does not guarantee the regression of wildlife into its Urzustand.

 

[motel rooms]

I am not well read enough in theological matters to confirm the veracity of the above statement, but even if it were true, the extinction of humankind does not guarantee the regression of wildlife into its Urzustand.

Jesus can perform any friggin' Urzustand he wants! He doesn't even have to know what that word means to do it!

 

[TheAmazingCriswell]

Jesus can perform any friggin' Urzustand he wants! He doesn't even have to know what that word means to do it!

Well, I won't stop him.

 

[motel rooms]

Well, I won't stop him.

You sure won't. Jesus can walk on water, fly, sit on clouds, I bet he can even shoot lasers from his butt

 

[ConfusedAndWeird]

The cruelty of nature and of humans is why I'm an efilist. An efilist being someone who thinks that life in general was a mistake. If you've ever studied game theory, then you could see that life is a negative sum game. That means that everything good requires a greater amount of bad to sustain it. I believe that that is actually considered a formal physical law: the second law of thermodynamics. "All transfers of energy will end up with some of the transferred energy being changed into an unusable form." This is often referred to as the "Law of Entropy."

The point is that it's inherent to living for suffering to be more prevalent than happiness, and of course for suffering to exist in the universe in the first place. The energy transfer from prey to predator often ends up with only 10% of the energy consumed by the prey being transferred to the predator. As well, the prey experiences a lot more pain while being eaten than a predator feels pleasure from eating the prey.

It would honestly be much better if entities in a universe like this were not sentient and capable of feeling pain or pleasure for this reason, which is why I think life in general is a mistake here. I do think it makes a solid reason to CTB on the other hand, because non-existence, which has neither pleasure nor pain, is better on average than our life. I think it is possible for people to feel more pleasure than pain overall but only at the expense of many suffering organisms/people, although this can be diminished by veganism assuming plants can't feel pain.

I can't "function" in this world because I can't accept what I need to do in order to survive. Employment is necessary to get money for food and shelter, but acquiring it means taking it from someone else who will suffer in my place. This phone that I'm using to post here uses materials acquired from traumatized, miserable miners in Africa. The clothes we wear come from overworked, underpaid factory workers in China. If our existence inherently makes people miserable than I think it would be better to not be alive, so as to not cause this misery to others. Although I know some people say the above factors can be mitigated under a better society I think the laws of entropy would prevent that from working without making people more miserable on average. Not unless they can make the economy more than 100% efficient which not even free market capitalism can achieve.

If nothing were alive it would be the best for everyone, and CTB for me at least is in part a way of protest against our way of life.

 

[demuic]

I once read about the case of Junko Furuta, a 16 year old Japanese girl who was kidnapped and tortured for 44 days before finally being killed. "Torture" is almost too light of a word to describe what so many people did to her. Merely reading about what she went through was deeply disturbing to me, it kept coming back to my mind over and over again. It doesn't even feel right to link the article tbh.

I've heard about it before but not any details, things like that tend to stay in my mind for hours and disturb me.

The cruelty of nature and of humans is why I'm an efilist. An efilist being someone who thinks that life in general was a mistake. If you've ever studied game theory, then you could see that life is a negative sum game. That means that everything good requires a greater amount of bad to sustain it. I believe that that is actually considered a formal physical law: the second law of thermodynamics. "All transfers of energy will end up with some of the transferred energy being changed into an unusable form." This is often referred to as the "Law of Entropy."

The point is that it's inherent to living for suffering to be more prevalent than happiness, and of course for suffering to exist in the universe in the first place. The energy transfer from prey to predator often ends up with only 10% of the energy consumed by the prey being transferred to the predator. As well, the prey experiences a lot more pain while being eaten than a predator feels pleasure from eating the prey.

It would honestly be much better if entities in a universe like this were not sentient and capable of feeling pain or pleasure for this reason, which is why I think life in general is a mistake here. I do think it makes a solid reason to CTB on the other hand, because non-existence, which has neither pleasure nor pain, is better on average than our life. I think it is possible for people to feel more pleasure than pain overall but only at the expense of many suffering organisms/people, although this can be diminished by veganism assuming plants can't feel pain.

I can't "function" in this world because I can't accept what I need to do in order to survive. Employment is necessary to get money for food and shelter, but acquiring it means taking it from someone else who will suffer in my place. This phone that I'm using to post here uses materials acquired from traumatized, miserable miners in Africa. The clothes we wear come from overworked, underpaid factory workers in China. If our existence inherently makes people miserable than I think it would be better to not be alive, so as to not cause this misery to others. Although I know some people say the above factors can be mitigated under a better society I think the laws of entropy would prevent that from working without making people more miserable on average. Not unless they can make the economy more than 100% efficient which not even free market capitalism can achieve.

If nothing were alive it would be the best for everyone, and CTB for me at least is in part a way of protest against our way of life.

I completely agree. Life in this universe only brings endless suffering, due to the very laws of reality.

 

[Debbie Northampton U]

Exactly. People give all sorts of reasons for why suffering exists, such as "you can't have happiness without it" or "it's the result of human free will". I don't buy those arguments, but even if we grant those arguments, it doesn't matter. The main point is that suffering exists, and that makes existing a problem.

Oh, the "God gave us free will" argument. Well no god of mine would allow such suffering which is why I'm an athiest. If anyone runs this world, it's some kind of devil.

 

[Superdeterminist]

Oh, the "God gave us free will" argument. Well no god of mine would allow such suffering which is why I'm an athiest. If anyone runs this world, it's some kind of devil.

Yep, if god exists then they must be evil, or limited in their power. Most religions insist that their god is neither of these and is instead perfect. Many theists depend desperately on the free will defense to justify bad outcomes in people's lives. It makes little sense for a god to have created agents that don't even want to live in their world. What kind of terrible design is that? Even us lowly humans can do a better job of designing than that. To escape this problem they posit free will. However, free will is a completely incoherent concept.

 

[Debbie Northampton U]

Yep, if god exists then they must be evil, or limited in their power. Most religions insist that their god is neither of these and is instead perfect. Many theists depend desperately on the free will defense to justify bad outcomes in people's lives. It makes little sense for a god to have created agents that don't even want to live in their world. What kind of terrible design is that? Even us lowly humans can do a better job of designing than that. To escape this problem they posit free will. However, free will is a completely incoherent concept.

I worry that darker forces (lizards?) run this show - and I do worry what awaits us when we pop off. I'm intrigued by this calming white light full of love that NDE's talk about. If we are here to learn human lessons (eternal souls having a human experience) I'm confused as to why. Why so cruel!

 

[Amumu]

If you want to deepen even more your knowledge about suffering, read about the thirty years war. It's mind-blowing.

 

[Not Being]

It still constitutes one of my reasons for dying.
By knowing the things that can happen to you without any kind of guaranteed justice.
It's funny that parents say they would do anything to protect their children from danger, but what do they do? They bring new individuals to a world where various atrocities are allowed. It's basically like pouring gasoline into a burning house.
You find out about the things that can happen and, in a good part of the cases, there is no justice! Why risk suffering?
I already know what this world is capable of.
I also wonder the same: why would anyone be happy or calm in a world where such things are allowed? I suppose they will only pay attention to it when something terrible happens to them in their life, otherwise "life is precious."

Suffering is not a competition, no one has to suffer those things (Squad 731, Junko Furuta, or any kind of suffering) to want to get out of here. If you know that the house is on fire, it is better to get out as soon as possible.
And as much as the human tries to mitigate it with his laws, that will not change the rules of nature.

I already know what this world is capable of, personally it doesn't encourage me to continue.

 

[BottomlessPit]

Suffering is not a competition, no one has to suffer those things (Squad 731, Junko Furuta, or any kind of suffering) to want to get out of here. If you know that the house is on fire, it is better to get out as soon as possible.

You managed to put into words what I've been struggling to articulate for awhile now. "If you know that the house is on fire, it is better to get out as soon as possible." Nature is inherently cold and hostile, the simple act of existing carries a risk that I am simply not willing to take. I did never consent to be born and subjected to this risk anyway, so I consider suicide the reversal of a colossal mistake.

 

[Makko]

There's beauty in a world of suffering. Happy people write crappy poetry.

 

[Beachedwhale]

There seems to be too much focus on human suffering/man-made suffering. One must not forget that nature itself is inherently cruel; even if mankind were to be purged from the surface of the earth, animals would still suffer at the hands (paws, claws...) of each other. Why anyone thinks that life in general is something to be preserved is beyond me (although one might be able to make a case for sponges and the likes).

The difference is that modern human suffering exists over many years as it is not tied to survival. Animal suffering tends to be short-lived. The worse the suffering, the likelier it is for the animal to die sooner rather than later. Otherwise, the lighter the suffering, the likelier it is for the animal to heal. Animals that are killed/eaten by others don't suffer too long. In that sense nature is gentle. And hunter gatherers were connected with nature, and we are not but our brains are still that of hunter gatherers.

Yep, if god exists then they must be evil, or limited in their power. Most religions insist that their god is neither of these and is instead perfect. Many theists depend desperately on the free will defense to justify bad outcomes in people's lives. It makes little sense for a god to have created agents that don't even want to live in their world. What kind of terrible design is that? Even us lowly humans can do a better job of designing than that. To escape this problem they posit free will. However, free will is a completely incoherent concept.

Could you elaborate on why this is so?

 

[Beachedwhale]

Yeah maybe humans do suffer more than other animals but any animal including a human can fall become injured and be eaten alive by maggots for days or weeks from the inside out . see the scaphism torture. that's just one example of extreme torture that every animal that can feel pain could fall into with one wrong mistep....

True. Though I doubt it would be weeks of suffering, maybe a week or two of bacterial infection followed by death (in the natural case, not the torture one, as that falls under human civilisation), or even just 3 days if there were no water. Otherwise if it were not fatal then it could be attended to by the rest of the tribe and heal naturally..