TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,819
Here is a good reddit post showing the reason why no one really cares about another's problem (see below quote):
Credit goes to u/zmndyeqm, and here is the link to the post.

I wanted to post this as a reply to another thread, but it got too long and analyze'y, so I decided to make it into a separate post. Hope that's alright.

The reality is that suicidal people have unique and fundamental problems that are not easy to solve.

Like some people have financial difficulties and unless someone is willing to pay them a ton of money in cash no amount of therapy is gonna help them.

Some people have incurable diseases whether physical or mental, like autism, which makes them eternally miserable and there's no fixing it. They just have to choose between dying and having a shit life, they're never gonna have a good life similar to healthy people.

Basically, suicides are split into impulse suicides and planned suicides. Impulse suicides are usually due to an extreme change of circumstance which the suicidal person's mind can not comprehend how to deal with at all. Whereas with planned suicides the suicidal person is completely lucid and knowingly commits suicide because of some unsolvable issue.

These are extremely different. Impulse suicides can be thwarted easily by simply talking to the individual and helping them handle their problem. Planned suicides on the other hand like I said earlier have no easy solutions and would be extremely costly for anyone to help with, which means neither friends nor the government are willing to help with those.

Since majority of suicide attempts are impulsive, and preventing an impulsive suicide is orders of magnitude cheaper than a planned one, almost all suicide prevention resources (including this subreddit) are focused on them. Basically at the cost of preventing 1 planned suicide, they prevention centers can prevent like 1000 impulse suicides.

What this all means is that if you're planning for suicide, you're basically fucked. Nobody's gonna actually say it, but in the eyes of most people who deal with suicidal people, you're a lost cause.

That's why you get empty platitudes like "It gets better". They know they're bullshitting, but what do you expect? For them to say "Here's a hundred thousand dollars to solve your financial issue" or "I'm gonna spend all my life researching autism to cure it"? If you're thinking straight and you're problem is really unsolvable, then suicide prevention can't do anything for you. You just have to choose between dying or living a shitty life.

As far as the suicide prevention efforts are concerned, I'd consider myself to be the planned one, meaning that I have meditated and contemplated this for many years (at least in the last decade) and had at times held off, coped longer, but ultimately, I know at some point in my life, CTB will occur, it is just a matter of 'when' and circumstances aligning as well as an opportune moment with a catalyst to push it.
 
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k75

k75

L'appel du Vide
Jun 27, 2019
2,546
That was a good read. Thanks for sharing it.
 
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thatguyakira123

thatguyakira123

Experienced
Apr 10, 2018
217
Well I would argue that there are impulse suicides that is for some unsolveable issue and the vise versa otherwise. It's not really that black and white. And honestly, I think the real reason why people don't take suicidal people seriously is becuase they think we're being drama queens. They lump planned and impuse together as one. Some try to "save" people for either this reason or becuase they have a hero complex or because jeebus indoctornated them to believing life is the bees knees. Otther people just can't wait for you to shut up so they can talk about their pathtic problems like someone not telling them Hi for the day and how it made them mad.
 
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S

S1mpleme

Mage
Dec 27, 2019
517
Here is a good reddit post showing the reason why no one really cares about another's problem (see below quote):
Credit goes to u/zmndyeqm, and here is the link to the post.



As far as the suicide prevention efforts are concerned, I'd consider myself to be the planned one, meaning that I have meditated and contemplated this for many years (at least in the last decade) and had at times held off, coped longer, but ultimately, I know at some point in my life, CTB will occur, it is just a matter of 'when' and circumstances aligning as well as an opportune moment with a catalyst to push it.
You're right. They could say that they want to give money to someone or anything else, but it is what is. That's obviously that nobody cares, not only about suicidal people or just those who are really dying from a disease, but there are millions of hungry and sick kids and adults in poor countries, they simply don't have money or access to the things needed to survive. I bet one of those rich guys can easily buy food and water for whole village or even a city somewhere in Aftica, but having Ferrari just more important.
 
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DoNotLet2

DoNotLet2

Wizard
Oct 14, 2019
684
I just wanna say I've recently heard autism isn't a condition but actually a different kind of mind. It is still being researched.
But besides it is totally right.
But I find it propaganda that mainstream says suicides are always impulsive. We are being lied to that depression is like flu and suicidal thoughts are severe flu, which isn't always true. I have never heard on mainstream about people having depression from problems but i have heard many times about depression caused by bad habits.
EDIT 2: About hunger. I've heard it's mostly logistic problem that requires some good will from people. They said, that people can produce food for 7 billion or even more but instead of giving unused food we throw it away.
 
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TheGoodGuy

TheGoodGuy

Visionary
Aug 27, 2018
2,999
That was some amazing read I almost wanna add it to my suicide note because it explains it so well it also might take away the "guilt" part from loved ones where they wonder if they could´ve done something and this article clearly explains the difference in why planned suicides are rational.
 
G

Ghost2211

Archangel
Jan 20, 2020
6,017
I can very much see the logic in this. Thank you for sharing it. Most of us would be grouped into planned suicides. We do get impulsive suicides here too, but most people that seek out a resource like this are working on a thorough plan which has complicated factors.

i can see how people that logic it out would be harder to treat. There is no bandaid for our problems, and hospitalization is more likely to lead to impulsiveness rather than a solution due to the sense of trapped and betrayal it causes.

Personally, I am glad I will fall through the cracks of society. There is no real "fix" to my problems that therapists, meds or institutions can provide. I don't want suicide prevention help, so they can save their resources for the acute cases.
 
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Margimet

Margimet

Member
Aug 31, 2019
55
I just wanna say I've recently heard autism isn't a condition but actually a different kind of mind. It is still being researched.


Here in Brazil there is a doctor who treats autism as an autoimmune disease and patients are getting better!
 
DoNotLet2

DoNotLet2

Wizard
Oct 14, 2019
684
Here in Brazil there is a doctor who treats autism as an autoimmune disease and patients are getting better!
Links? I do not think it is an autoimmune disease. But it's kinda offtopic.
 
Margimet

Margimet

Member
Aug 31, 2019
55
Links? I do not think it is an autoimmune disease. But it's kinda offtopic.


Links? I do not think it is an autoimmune disease. But it's kinda offtopic.





"Além de tudo o que já foi descrito acima, hoje sabemos que há uma turma de pesquisadores tentando provar que autismo é uma doença auto imune. Ataques à bainha de mielina, à axônios, à receptores de folato, à mitocôndria, à enzima transglutaminase... são reportados em algumas pesquisas.
Outros tantos trabalhos reportam o envolvimento do sistema imunológico e a inflamação cerebral nas manifestações de autismo.
Ciente de tudo isto, tive a plena convicção que o tratamento ministrado pelo Dr. Cícero, se encaixaria perfeitamente aos casos de autismo e principalmente ao tratamento do meu filho pelo seu histórico de manifestações com agravamento dos sintomas da síndrome com o passar dos anos.
Imediatamente marquei uma consulta, o que só consegui para 5 meses depois e aconteceu esta semana."


Auto Translator:
In addition to everything described above, today we know that there is a group of researchers trying to prove that autism is an autoimmune disease. Attacks on the myelin sheath, axons, folate receptors, mitochondria, transglutaminase enzyme ... are reported in some research.
Many other studies report the involvement of the immune system and brain inflammation in the manifestations of autism.
Aware of all this, I had the full conviction that the treatment given by Dr. Cícero, would fit perfectly with cases of autism and especially my son's treatment for his history of manifestations with worsening of the syndrome's symptoms over the years.
I immediately made an appointment, which I only got for 5 months later and it happened this week.

 
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T

TimeToBiteTheDust

Visionary
Nov 7, 2019
2,322
People only care about their own ass
 
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E

Epsilon0

Enlightened
Dec 28, 2019
1,874
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E

Epsilon0

Enlightened
Dec 28, 2019
1,874
Sorry. I didn't want to be mean. Is SI and being selfish related?

I was only trying to make a joke and exemplify human interaction. You and I share the same convinction.
 
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Heady_Cerebrum

Member
Jan 24, 2020
98
The issue with a lot of brain medicine, including theories surrounding autism, is our current, and probably future, issue of brain biopsies. They can't be safely done, so it is extremely difficult to actually prove or measure the myelin sheath coating, serotonin and other brain chemical concentrations and many other tests.
 
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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,819
Well I would argue that there are impulse suicides that is for some unsolveable issue and the vise versa otherwise. It's not really that black and white. And honestly, I think the real reason why people don't take suicidal people seriously is becuase they think we're being drama queens. They lump planned and impuse together as one. Some try to "save" people for either this reason or becuase they have a hero complex or because jeebus indoctornated them to believing life is the bees knees. Otther people just can't wait for you to shut up so they can talk about their pathtic problems like someone not telling them Hi for the day and how it made them mad.
Yeah the problem with that is because not all suicides are impulsive (even if a lot are), nor are they all planned. I think differentiating between the two is important. Also, yeah people in general are selfish and really only care about how you (as an individual) affect them, even emotionally and what not.
 
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BPD Barbie

BPD Barbie

Visionary
Dec 1, 2019
2,361
I think 90% of the time people don't care is because its not their problem and it has no implications on their life. If it impacts them, suddenly there are there with bells and whistles on, at least that's my experience.
 
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Dystopic_Momento

Dystopic_Momento

Member
Dec 8, 2019
87
The government won't help because they're often the cause. I ran across my SSI judge and discovered that other people also were suicidal after having been in his courtroom. There are enough sadistic people out there I wouldn't doubt this particular one enjoys reading that sort of thing.

My problems are mainly caused by the government -so why would they fix them? Or care about them?

We were held in place and tormented by Family Court where I wasn't from (I was there for abuse shelter only) and my ex didn't live. No outs for years forced to live in poverty with no way out and constant threats of jail (over things I didn't do wrong - like get the kids 4 hours away in 3 hours right now when it wasn't his time... also he was hurting them and you have to turn your kids over to be hurt regardless. Now they're adults and some people are still trying to shut us up), terrorizing us, and making up expensive dictates (if you have seizures and can't drive, then pay someone to drive them to a train station and sit with them to get there, and do the same all the way back and pay for their trip back... just rediculous things), bad doctors/tests (medicaid will tell you "No one good wants to work for what we pay them, so that's just how life works.." ), bad therapy (Omg the horror stories I witnessed, let alone some of ours- in tiny areas a single mental health place can take over an entire county and the stuff they do to people ), big pharma (which ties in to bad doctors in that they get money to give you certain medications and ignore side effects that are sometimes permanent and sometimes you're a guinea pig), enforced poverty mixed with a corrupt area forced us to live in areas that have so much black mold the local government removed it from the system so they wouldn't have to examine it and you had no rights if you lived in it-combined with Social Security for disability which let's face it are drug pushers because the people who make the laws have stock in these companies, Social Security hearings and the system that backs them (which is absurdly corrupt (not even trying to hide it) at worse and a joke at best - and in my case completely corrupt to the point of absurdity - but there's no way to fight back because the justice system is also corrupt that lawyers have to pay judges "re election campaigns" when no one ever runs against them and they were "placed" by a politician without ever having once been voted on- and ignore their clients on behalf of other clients and cut deals about failing in your case to get ahead in another (no wonder lawyers are one of the most likely to kill themselves - they're surrounded by this 24/7). I even had a family court judge that was ordering a 4 year old (not mine) into a weekly rape situation and when the dad was caught with child porn, still ordered visitation - that kid's now an adult too but it took years and a lot of money to get permission from that judge to move- and that judge was also a Juvenile Justice Judge who was on several boards in the area - one lawyer said that she would actively rule against him because he once embarrassed her by replaying part of a hearing showing she was wrong about something she said. And if you get a corrupt judge nobody's going to fix that (rights are for people who can pay for them unless it's a simple case, you'll be blacklisted just for complaining, and judges are ruled on by their buddies) and if there's medical malpractice no one will touch it either for the same reason, and it'll probably be too late by the time you find out you could technically have done something because no one will give you records and there's a reason they call it "doctoring" as well. ;) But just keeping the info until the statute of limitations is up is enough. Why would people like that care about anyone? And that's just a brief glimpse into our system, there's a whole even worse TLDR worse than this.

In one of the abuse shelters they taught us that abusers gravitate toward certain jobs - government positions, mental health, pastoral positions (the church), etc. Those people will never care about your problems.

The thing that gets me is if they're going to insist we all die slowly on the streets ... if they're trying to kill us off slowly, why not offer us a faster, easier way out? Then we won't clutter their streets with our homelessness first. Why the slow homicide when it doesn't even take caring to get that faster equals better? Or is it that they wouldn't be able to stock up our industry run prisons if they weren't able to at least arrest some of them for loitering or sleeping in public or needing to use a toilet and being barred from all of them? Prison industry needs to make money somehow, right? Each person makes them a nice 50,000 a year and a lot of the jails worked things out so if they're not getting enough people to arrest the state has to pay them (google it). But how about the rest of us? Way too many homeless disabled to jail us all. Let us die faster. This slow death by torture is worse. Give us an out.
 
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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,819
@BPD Barbie Yes, I think that's the attitude most people possess, they don't (truly) care about you unless it directly impacts them in some way. Thus, someone wanting to CTB and end one's own suffering is an affront to them and they can't afford to have their 'feelings' hurt. It's more selfish of them to keep us (suicidal) people around just so they don't feel the inconvenience of sadness and sorrow. Ultimately, it's about control as well as feeding their egos first rather than fulfilling our wishes and interests.

@Dystopic_Momento Well written and well said. Sadly, most NPC's (day to day people in society) won't admit it or even lash out and attack anyone who tries to bring it up in such a way. Then they resort to ad hominems and all sorts of witch hunt, bullying, shaming tactics to silence us into submission, and even question our own sanity (when in fact it's THEM that are the 'problem' which creates people like us, not the other way around). They have robbed our voices and this is why we have this place, to be able to talk about things like suicide and death, question the system, and more, without fear or risk of consequences or censorship.
 
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Dystopic_Momento

Dystopic_Momento

Member
Dec 8, 2019
87
@Dystopic_Momento Well written and well said. Sadly, most NPC's (day to day people in society) won't admit it or even lash out and attack anyone who tries to bring it up in such a way. Then they resort to ad hominems and all sorts of witch hunt, bullying, shaming tactics to silence us into submission, and even question our own sanity (when in fact it's THEM that are the 'problem' which creates people like us, not the other way around). They have robbed our voices and this is why we have this place, to be able to talk about things like suicide and death, question the system, and more, without fear or risk of consequences or censorship.

I haven't been able to post or talk about this anywhere else without serious immediate consequences.

The tactics you mention work. It does feel good to have a voice in a place you're not called bad and shut down immediately. It nullifies the Double Bind a little.
 
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