The importance of looks makes life for me valueless, brutish, and irremediably ugly

[Suicideisnirvana]

When i was 12 years old, i wasn't the brightest fellow out there, nor was i the stupidest, i had good grades and made some decent observations, but wasn't bright or discerning enough to escape the stultifying and brutish mould of education/indonctrination. I wasn't naive enough to think that looks made no difference whatsoever to how we are treated by people, how the trajectory of our sentimental, sexual and social life is determined in no small part by our looks, but i found in front of experience that i've underestimated its importance by a surprisingly gigantic factor.

The first moment i saw how guys who had nothing interresting about them, and i'm not talking here about the famously suspicious "nice guys qualities", but even the brutish sort of vitality or the arrogant excesses often associated to "being a bad boy" or "virility" ... the first moment i noticed that all guys that were liked in my school had one and only common factor : Being physically attractive, it was like the ground had surrendered and vanished under my feet, i felt a glacial shock, an almost mystical fall, and the certitude that life and everything in it is worthless from that moment. I also noticed that it wasn't the confident who was socially successful. In most cases, it was the physically attractive that were the most confident. How can you not be confident when you were always treated with endearing smiles, soothing facial expressions and attitudes, benevolence, interest ?

What i craved the most was always sentimental communion, complicity, companionship, even sexual desires seemed like only a subtype completely subordinated to this need for sentimental communion, it was more a strong symbol and sign of being on the right track than an end in itself for me, i had some short and unstable relationships between long hiatus of desertic loneliness, but the common climate was coldness and darkness, always treated differently once the girl saw my face, or left quickly for someone more physically attractive. I also was never naive enough to think that with success in relationships, one would transcend the human condition, reaches some unalloyed happiness or have no problems. Far from that, but it gives an undeniable advantage in coping with every problem with life. The same way some people affirm "I'd rather be sad in a comfortable house with heating and food in my fridge and a jaccuzi rather than sad and homeless", i always knew that it was far better to have problems while having your sentimental desires fulfilled to some-extent than having in plus of those problems all the other awful consequences of sentimental and sexual frustration and failure.

I do not wish here to assert some invectives or recrimination against women, i'm only talking about my experience and since i'm heterosexual, it will includes women instead of men, as for me the problem is with nature and the universe itself, not men or women. It's just that contrarily to most people, i can't just withstand that fact as we often do with the bad aspects of life. This passage from a Jorge Borges short story illustrates the situation very well for me, i feel as if the world's superficiality, how our looks determine how people treat us, our sexual and sentimental success, how eager people will be eager to hear us, give us time, be indulgent toward us, accept us, embrace us etc ... i feel as if the mere existence and scope of this superficiality is like the mysterious city about which borges declares "This City, I thought, is so horrific that its mere existence, the mere fact of its having endured-even in the middle of a secret desert-pollutes the past and the future and somehow compromises the stars. So long as this City endures, no one in the world can ever be happy or courageous"

 

[Raggas]

If it's any consolation, I'm called nice looking and I still want to die.

 

[headinghome]

When i was 12 years old, i wasn't the brightest fellow out there, nor was i the stupidest, i had good grades and made some decent observations, but wasn't bright or discerning enough to escape the stultifying and brutish mould of education/indonctrination. I wasn't naive enough to think that looks made no difference whatsoever to how we are treated by people, how the trajectory of our sentimental, sexual and social life is determined in no small part by our looks, but i found in front of experience that i've underestimated its importance by a surprisingly gigantic factor.

The first moment i saw how guys who had nothing interresting about them, and i'm not talking here about the famously suspicious "nice guys qualities", but even the brutish sort of vitality or the arrogant excesses often associated to "being a bad boy" or "virility" ... the first moment i noticed that all guys that were liked in my school had one and only common factor : Being physically attractive, it was like the ground had surrendered and vanished under my feet, i felt a glacial shock, an almost mystical fall, and the certitude that life and everything in it is worthless from that moment. I also noticed that it wasn't the confident who was socially successful. In most cases, it was the physically attractive that were the most confident. How can you not be confident when you were always treated with endearing smiles, soothing facial expressions and attitudes, benevolence, interest ?

What i craved the most was always sentimental communion, complicity, companionship, even sexual desires seemed like only a subtype completely subordinated to this need for sentimental communion, it was more a strong symbol and sign of being on the right track than an end in itself for me, i had some short and unstable relationships between long hiatus of desertic loneliness, but the common climate was coldness and darkness, always treated differently once the girl saw my face, or left quickly for someone more physically attractive. I also was never naive enough to think that with success in relationships, one would transcend the human condition, reaches some unalloyed happiness or have no problems. Far from that, but it gives an undeniable advantage in coping with every problem with life. The same way some people affirm "I'd rather be sad in a comfortable house with heating and food in my fridge and a jaccuzi rather than sad and homeless", i always knew that it was far better to have problems while having your sentimental desires fulfilled to some-extent than having in plus of those problems all the other awful consequences of sentimental and sexual frustration and failure.

I do not wish here to assert some invectives or recrimination against women, i'm only talking about my experience and since i'm heterosexual, it will includes women instead of men, as for me the problem is with nature and the universe itself, not men or women. It's just that contrarily to most people, i can't just withstand that fact as we often do with the bad aspects of life. This passage from a Jorge Borges short story illustrates the situation very well for me, i feel as if the world's superficiality, how our looks determine how people treat us, our sexual and sentimental success, how eager people will be eager to hear us, give us time, be indulgent toward us, accept us, embrace us etc ... i feel as if the mere existence and scope of this superficiality is like the mysterious city about which borges declares "This City, I thought, is so horrific that its mere existence, the mere fact of its having endured-even in the middle of a secret desert-pollutes the past and the future and somehow compromises the stars. So long as this City endures, no one in the world can ever be happy or courageous"

But look at everything you have to say… You're obviously a thoughtful and intelligent being… Can't you just let your brain live a little longer… Who knows what you might come up with… Go out run around and sniff the spring air and be glad you can walk there are many people who are unattractive in their own eyes but others find beautiful

 

[Suicideisnirvana]

But look at everything you have to say… You're obviously a thoughtful and intelligent being… Can't you just let your brain live a little longer… Who knows what you might come up with… Go out run around and sniff the spring air and be glad you can walk there are many people who are unattractive in their own eyes but others find beautiful

I don't consider life a positive, and don't want to live un a universe where our facial symetry determines so much things, it makes everything seems just so ugly, pale and meaningless.And it's not like i consider i'll lose something by dying, i'm considering i'm losing something everyday by living.

If it's any consolation, I'm called nice looking and I still want to die.

"Nice looking" is the euphemism people use when they wanna compliment someone they don't find attractive.

It's "handsome" or "attractive" or "hot" when people find you attractive, not "nice looking".

Also, what people say doesn't matter, you are attractive if you have a large potential of mates who want to date you, not compliment you.

And like i said in my post, i never said that being attractive resolves all-life problem. I'd just rather have compagny and be depressed than have the misery of loneliness/sexual frustration in PLUS of the other problems. It makes everything softer when your sexual needs are satisfied, and you have someone who wants to talk to you and listen to you and look in endearing way at you.

 

[headinghome]

I don't consider life a positive, and don't want to live un a universe where our facial symetry determines so much things, it makes everything seems just so ugly, pale and meaningless.And it's not like i consider i'll lose something by dying, i'm considering i'm losing something everyday by living.

try to focus on things other than appearance....the whole symmetry thing is caused by nature and evolution.......but YOU have power and can decide to do something with
your life....no one has everything they want....can you see, hear, walk,run, think, move, feel joy/emotion...have any level of hope no matter how small?!!??? can you look outside yourself or your situation and see anything worthwhile or is there just pity?? i am not denying anyone the right to die but dying was never a choice for me until I had an injury.....it pains me to see so many people on this site who seem to have no hope.....I guess I just don't understand ....I do understand that you feel hopeless and that you have no reasons to live but maybe you
could focus on your physical abilities at least for a short time and try to turn off your brain....what I will say to you is....I would sell my soul to be
physically whole again....

 

[Youthanasia]

Sorry you feel that way. Best wishes to you.

That said, I have to disagree. I'd be willing to talk you out of this notion, so long as you're comfortable with that.

Life surely is nicer to those who are naturally pretty. Something to do with the shape of the face, in combination with shape of things like eyes, muscles, colors and whatever. Nothing new here, put a passable blonde girl in front of me and i'll tear my chin apart

But that's just natural beauty. Few people actually have that, i'd say 1 in 50, maybe a tiny bit more. That said, there's also attractiveness. This is what people care the most about imo, i'll explain why. But i'm mostly talking about exercising a bit, having a hair cut, getting your eyebrows done if you have a caveman genetic (I'm included on this), nice clothes and skin. Good teeth plays a major role too, I guess. For women? I guess we all know the sorcery of makeup, in addition to the other things I pointed out.

All of these things can be bought. And even if you're on the bottom of those 50 people I mentioned earlier, you can be attractive enough for society. Because society hardly cares about genes, it cares about what you do with them.

And the gold mine lies in the image your looks in addition to your body language give to someone else. I've seen obese men pick up princesses and ugly girls go bombshell mode. This happens because attractiveness gives more important impressions than natural beauty.

If you value your body enough, you're naturally hot. It's that simple. Sometimes we'll want something we cannot afford, which sucks, but the bulk of it requires little money. People are naturally attracted, and respect those who can take care of themselves.

I speak all of this out of personal experience. Not trying to be pro-life or whatever, do what you must, but if that's your dragon, you're as capable of slaying it as anyone else would

 

[JadedGray]

Although there are many good looking people who are suicidal or have committed suicide, appearance was one less thing they had to worry about. Of course, even if you're considered good looking it won't matter unless you see yourself as good looking. I guess your perception matters most of all.

 

[lynn14]

Looks are important but they aren't everything. Not all of us can be the 2-5% of the population that are the genetic elite. Just settle for a 6 like you deserve. That way you can find happiness in companionship. Even the most beautiful people end up frightful looking, time is the great equalizer,.

 

[Gooseygoes]

When i was 12 years old, i wasn't the brightest fellow out there, nor was i the stupidest, i had good grades and made some decent observations, but wasn't bright or discerning enough to escape the stultifying and brutish mould of education/indonctrination. I wasn't naive enough to think that looks made no difference whatsoever to how we are treated by people, how the trajectory of our sentimental, sexual and social life is determined in no small part by our looks, but i found in front of experience that i've underestimated its importance by a surprisingly gigantic factor.

The first moment i saw how guys who had nothing interresting about them, and i'm not talking here about the famously suspicious "nice guys qualities", but even the brutish sort of vitality or the arrogant excesses often associated to "being a bad boy" or "virility" ... the first moment i noticed that all guys that were liked in my school had one and only common factor : Being physically attractive, it was like the ground had surrendered and vanished under my feet, i felt a glacial shock, an almost mystical fall, and the certitude that life and everything in it is worthless from that moment. I also noticed that it wasn't the confident who was socially successful. In most cases, it was the physically attractive that were the most confident. How can you not be confident when you were always treated with endearing smiles, soothing facial expressions and attitudes, benevolence, interest ?

What i craved the most was always sentimental communion, complicity, companionship, even sexual desires seemed like only a subtype completely subordinated to this need for sentimental communion, it was more a strong symbol and sign of being on the right track than an end in itself for me, i had some short and unstable relationships between long hiatus of desertic loneliness, but the common climate was coldness and darkness, always treated differently once the girl saw my face, or left quickly for someone more physically attractive. I also was never naive enough to think that with success in relationships, one would transcend the human condition, reaches some unalloyed happiness or have no problems. Far from that, but it gives an undeniable advantage in coping with every problem with life. The same way some people affirm "I'd rather be sad in a comfortable house with heating and food in my fridge and a jaccuzi rather than sad and homeless", i always knew that it was far better to have problems while having your sentimental desires fulfilled to some-extent than having in plus of those problems all the other awful consequences of sentimental and sexual frustration and failure.

I do not wish here to assert some invectives or recrimination against women, i'm only talking about my experience and since i'm heterosexual, it will includes women instead of men, as for me the problem is with nature and the universe itself, not men or women. It's just that contrarily to most people, i can't just withstand that fact as we often do with the bad aspects of life. This passage from a Jorge Borges short story illustrates the situation very well for me, i feel as if the world's superficiality, how our looks determine how people treat us, our sexual and sentimental success, how eager people will be eager to hear us, give us time, be indulgent toward us, accept us, embrace us etc ... i feel as if the mere existence and scope of this superficiality is like the mysterious city about which borges declares "This City, I thought, is so horrific that its mere existence, the mere fact of its having endured-even in the middle of a secret desert-pollutes the past and the future and somehow compromises the stars. So long as this City endures, no one in the world can ever be happy or courageous"

I'm sorry you're feeling defeated. Life can be quite debilitating but I do have to say that I BELIEVE YOU HAVE A BEAUTIFUL MIND and all the things you desire to experience are still available to you. You're very descriptive and literate, so may I suggest you try cracking this nut a different way? Become a WRITER. I know I sound insane (and mostly I am) but that's your answer. Specifically TV or film. I know from experience that this is a profession where unattractive and awkward people are treated like ROCK STARS despite what anyone may think of their looks. I promise you.

Just be as honest as you are on this forum and the world will be your oyster. Figure it out.

 

[Suicideisnirvana]

Looks are important but they aren't everything. Not all of us can be the 2-5% of the population that are the genetic elite. Just settle for a 6 like you deserve. That way you can find happiness in companionship. Even the most beautiful people end up frightful looking, time is the great equalizer,.

You only have to be a top 5% of the population if you're a guy though.

Look at the discrepancy between genders :





I'm not saying it's women fault or something, it's nature and evolutions fault. Women can't spread their eggs the same way men can spread their sperm therefore they have to be more stringent and take lesser risks, but it's just suck to be on the receiving end of that.

Both genders are as superficial, the difference is not there, the difference is in how much % do each gender find attractive while being superficial, and the top 5% isn't valid for women. 40% at least of women can be appealing to men as long as they aren't overweight, plus they can use make-up ( i'm not saying it is necessary, that they have to or anything of that sort, just that women can more easily enhance themselves), to be appealing to a large percentage of men. For men being "attractive" is only a select minority privilege. You may think that "guys can just go to the gym" but not only is getting a six packs and a muscular body waay harder than just being fit (as in not overweight), but there is also no gym for your face (and your height for the short guys)

 

[Jolene40]

If it's any consolation, I'm called nice looking and I still want to die.

When i was or had the potential to be my most attractive I was also severely depressed and felt extremely ugly. When i went on ADs, because my mood improved alot, i made myself alot more attractive with clothes hair grooming etc and did not feel ugly anymore. The way i felt about myself changed everything. I suddenly got lots of attention. The way you feel about yourself is in my view one of the most important things in weathering life - especially if you are not aesthetically beautiful. People can feel and sense this and treat you accordingly. If you are very ugly I dont know how you overcome this and feel great about yourself but I've seen plenty of people who at first glance are not attractive and then within a minute they suddenly are because they just have something.
I have always felt life is easier for the beautiful - but only during school years. It means absolutely nothing in my experience now as an adult. This is why i really feel for young kids or teenagers on here. I want to tell them it can get better - especially if their depression revolves around social status/feeling ugly. Looks play NO part at all now in my social groups/ happiness. The most beautiful of us is now quite sad and unhappy in life. I'd say late 20s onwards it holds less and less importance.
There was a recent story about a young reality tv celeb who killed himself and he was what you would call aesthetically beautiful. It didn't matter one bit.

You only have to be a top 5% of the population if you're a guy though.

Look at the discrepancy between genders :





I'm not saying it's women fault or something, it's nature and evolutions fault. Women can't spread their eggs the same way men can spread their sperm therefore they have to be more stringent and take lesser risks, but it's just suck to be on the receiving end of that.

Both genders are as superficial, the difference is not there, the difference is in how much % do each gender find attractive while being superficial, and the top 5% isn't valid for women. 40% at least of women can be appealing to men as long as they aren't overweight, plus they can use make-up ( i'm not saying it is necessary, that they have to or anything of that sort, just that women can more easily enhance themselves), to be appealing to a large percentage of men. For men being "attractive" is only a select minority privilege. You may think that "guys can just go to the gym" but not only is getting a six packs and a muscular body waay harder than just being fit (as in not overweight), but there is also no gym for your face (and your height for the short guys)

We are using sweeping generalisations galore here but women definitely don't just go for looks. There are many many things that women find attractive. Sadly these are lost in the fog of depression.

 

[lynn14]

I've noticed that some of the most top-tier attractive women don't even breed nowadays.

Women are sexually advantaged, you are right, they are the ones who are the gatekeepers of breeding. Even if women have to take a symp (a beta or lower quality male) they can always fall back on the fact that they are, at the end of the day, on the receiving end of the attention, it is only natural as you point out.

If I had better understood these dynamics as a younger woman, I could have done better on the sexual market myself, but at least my daughters will have every advantage that I didn't have, being brainwashed by our liberal/infertile culture, to be miserable spinsters who squandered every opportunity. I want my daughters to make the most of their looks and cashout richer instead of poorer. Even average looking women can do very well for themselves in this department as you rightly pointed out.

 

[favourite]

When i was 12 years old, i wasn't the brightest fellow out there, nor was i the stupidest, i had good grades and made some decent observations, but wasn't bright or discerning enough to escape the stultifying and brutish mould of education/indonctrination. I wasn't naive enough to think that looks made no difference whatsoever to how we are treated by people, how the trajectory of our sentimental, sexual and social life is determined in no small part by our looks, but i found in front of experience that i've underestimated its importance by a surprisingly gigantic factor.

The first moment i saw how guys who had nothing interresting about them, and i'm not talking here about the famously suspicious "nice guys qualities", but even the brutish sort of vitality or the arrogant excesses often associated to "being a bad boy" or "virility" ... the first moment i noticed that all guys that were liked in my school had one and only common factor : Being physically attractive, it was like the ground had surrendered and vanished under my feet, i felt a glacial shock, an almost mystical fall, and the certitude that life and everything in it is worthless from that moment. I also noticed that it wasn't the confident who was socially successful. In most cases, it was the physically attractive that were the most confident. How can you not be confident when you were always treated with endearing smiles, soothing facial expressions and attitudes, benevolence, interest ?

What i craved the most was always sentimental communion, complicity, companionship, even sexual desires seemed like only a subtype completely subordinated to this need for sentimental communion, it was more a strong symbol and sign of being on the right track than an end in itself for me, i had some short and unstable relationships between long hiatus of desertic loneliness, but the common climate was coldness and darkness, always treated differently once the girl saw my face, or left quickly for someone more physically attractive. I also was never naive enough to think that with success in relationships, one would transcend the human condition, reaches some unalloyed happiness or have no problems. Far from that, but it gives an undeniable advantage in coping with every problem with life. The same way some people affirm "I'd rather be sad in a comfortable house with heating and food in my fridge and a jaccuzi rather than sad and homeless", i always knew that it was far better to have problems while having your sentimental desires fulfilled to some-extent than having in plus of those problems all the other awful consequences of sentimental and sexual frustration and failure.

I do not wish here to assert some invectives or recrimination against women, i'm only talking about my experience and since i'm heterosexual, it will includes women instead of men, as for me the problem is with nature and the universe itself, not men or women. It's just that contrarily to most people, i can't just withstand that fact as we often do with the bad aspects of life. This passage from a Jorge Borges short story illustrates the situation very well for me, i feel as if the world's superficiality, how our looks determine how people treat us, our sexual and sentimental success, how eager people will be eager to hear us, give us time, be indulgent toward us, accept us, embrace us etc ... i feel as if the mere existence and scope of this superficiality is like the mysterious city about which borges declares "This City, I thought, is so horrific that its mere existence, the mere fact of its having endured-even in the middle of a secret desert-pollutes the past and the future and somehow compromises the stars. So long as this City endures, no one in the world can ever be happy or courageous"

I, too, was bluepilled for so long. I thought being always there for someone is enough lol.
now I realize that without looks I can do SHIT, because I'll never be valued as much as attractive people.

 

[spanishguy22]

I totally get you and I'm not trying to say its not so bad, this is just a side thought

I wish my worry in life was that I was ugly. Im decent to good looking and tall but it doesn't matter at all with crippling depression. I would've preferred a thousand times to be born ugly af but with the ability to be happy like normal people. Sure society doesn't like ugly generally but I never even liked society any way.

It's like I'm watching these people born with extreme deformities and impairments but they can still genuinely smile and you can tell they enjoy what they can.

You know you're fucked in life when you know you would've chosen to be born with down syndrome for example than to life a normal life until teenager when it becomes hell in a seemingly normal body and you're forced to commit suicide or suffer 60 years of misery.

 

[TheFinalCountdown]

You only have to be a top 5% of the population if you're a guy though.

Look at the discrepancy between genders :





I'm not saying it's women fault or something, it's nature and evolutions fault. Women can't spread their eggs the same way men can spread their sperm therefore they have to be more stringent and take lesser risks, but it's just suck to be on the receiving end of that.

Both genders are as superficial, the difference is not there, the difference is in how much % do each gender find attractive while being superficial, and the top 5% isn't valid for women. 40% at least of women can be appealing to men as long as they aren't overweight, plus they can use make-up ( i'm not saying it is necessary, that they have to or anything of that sort, just that women can more easily enhance themselves), to be appealing to a large percentage of men. For men being "attractive" is only a select minority privilege. You may think that "guys can just go to the gym" but not only is getting a six packs and a muscular body waay harder than just being fit (as in not overweight), but there is also no gym for your face (and your height for the short guys)

Here's some data from ok cupid which verifies what you just said


The most striking thing about this data is that women rate 81% of men below average and only 7% above average. Somehow women have developed completely unreasonable expectations of how a guy should look and consider most guys to be hideously ugly

 

[Suicideisnirvana]

Here's some data from ok cupid which verifies what you just said
View attachment 10712

The most striking thing about this data is that women rate 81% of men below average and only 7% above average. Somehow women have developed completely unreasonable expectations of how a guy should look and consider most guys to be hideously ugly

Let's not stray too much on the topic lest the topic be accused of sexism and closed.

The thing is that all discrepancies comes from nature itself, nature selection, how the mating strategies are different for both sexes, this is the source of this problem and of all the other problems. Nor men or women are to blame, but the savage, blind and imbecilic natural selection.

I totally get you and I'm not trying to say its not so bad, this is just a side thought

I wish my worry in life was that I was ugly. Im decent to good looking and tall but it doesn't matter at all with crippling depression. I would've preferred a thousand times to be born ugly af but with the ability to be happy like normal people. Sure society doesn't like ugly generally but I never even liked society any way.

It's like I'm watching these people born with extreme deformities and impairments but they can still genuinely smile and you can tell they enjoy what they can.

You know you're fucked in life when you know you would've chosen to be born with down syndrome for example than to life a normal life until teenager when it becomes hell in a seemingly normal body and you're forced to commit suicide or suffer 60 years of misery.

I'm depressed in a big part because of lookism (i never said i was ugly though, people just assumed it here, even average guys have it hard and i hate the world superficiality in itself )

I don't believe in those weird dichotomies between "depression" and "specific problems" X, i don't believe in the "chemical imbalance" theory of depression. Some depression may be cause only by chemical imbalances, others are caused by a shitty upringing and shitty life situations, so you can't say "i wish i just had this life situation" when this life situation is in big part what made the person depressed and dysfunctional and demotived, which leads of course to an avalanche of other problems and therefore more depression.

I wish my problem was only some abstract depression unrelated to life problems, as i'd have hope in it going someday at least, some treatment like Ketamine or some mystical insights done with psychedelics and meditation helping. But those life situations and stuctural problems of life CAN NEVER CHANGE.

 

[spanishguy22]

Let's not stray too much on the topic lest the topic be accused of sexism and closed.

The thing is that all discrepancies comes from nature itself, nature selection, how the mating strategies are different for both sexes, this is the source of this problem and of all the other problems. Nor men or women are to blame, but the savage, blind and imbecilic natural selection.


I'm depressed in a big part because of lookism (i never said i was ugly though, people just assumed it here, even average guys have it hard and i hate the world superficiality in itself )

I don't believe in those weird dichotomies between "depression" and "specific problems" X, i don't believe in the "chemical imbalance" theory of depression. Some depression may be cause only by chemical imbalances, others are caused by a shitty upringing and shitty life situations, so you can't say "i wish i just had this life situation" when this life situation is in big part what made the person depressed and dysfunctional and demotived, which leads of course to an avalanche of other problems and therefore more depression.

I wish my problem was only some abstract depression unrelated to life problems, as i'd have hope in it going someday at least, some treatment like Ketamine or some mystical insights done with psychedelics and meditation helping. But those life situations and stuctural problems of life CAN NEVER CHANGE.

you can always try steroids and get buff, if i wasnt depressed af i woulve done that all my life, and i did it for a while. easy af to gain muscle.
youll get one at least with a buff body