The good guys often do not win in real life - are there still rational incentives to be a good person

[noname223]

I think yes.

You will have less of a guilty conscience, often more self-esteem and sometimes less self-hatred. (but sometimes it is counterproductive). You will have a more positive view of yourself.

If you yourself end up in a bad position you would need a society where they care about vulnerable people. There is always the risk you youself will be dependent on help.

If you are a bad person it becomes way harder to surround you with good and honest people. (but it depends how strategical you act). Deep and honest connections can be very fulfiling.

What do you think?

Are there more incentives to ruthless and even evil? Personally, I think I am often selfish but not evil.

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

It's hard to really quantify a good or a bad person. Even ostensibly shitty people have rationales as to why they do things (whether those objectively hold much weight is another matter though I suppose). And "good" people can be deceptive or manipulative in their own right. Oftentimes people who seem great on the surface derive their own kind of pleasure from being that way, so it could be argued it's not even that altruistic on their parts.

I always feel like being authentic is the highest virtue, ie. being unapologetically human and accepting your own positives and negatives.

 

[apearl]

If I die knowing I was as kind as I could be, I would think I won in life. Even if there where losses from it. :)

 

[Reflection]

I personally would never screw someone else up or cause them severe pain to get ahead in life...But then again morality is subjective, in a "kill or be killed type of situation" it's understandable in my opinion, there's only so much you can sacrifice after all;

 

[Snowstorm]

trying to be good onto others doesn't always mean you'll be surrounded by good people, but i think being knowingly "bad" often puts your chances of being around good people much lower than the former.
even if you're as good as you can be and you don't end up with these "good" people, i think that's still something to be proud of

it's rational to want to be good, that's how we can tell the difference between "good" and "bad" to begin with.

 

[derpyderpins]

absolutely. There are practical incentives like you said with having good people around you and earning trust and having people desire to be good to you in return. (Yes, you could just lie and fake, but that becomes so strenuous.)

The mental component is greater. You point out self-esteem and having a guilt-free conscience, and those are fair points. (No, selfish people with superiority complexes who have to constantly insist they are awesome, you don't really have good self-esteem.) More importantly, imo, is that there are only certain views of the world you can adopt that will ultimately lead you to a peaceful and satisfying existence. I talk a lot about the "god-shaped hole," and how I don't know exactly how you are supposed to fill it, but I know for sure some ways that filling it leads to misery. Selfishness and self-centeredness is chief among them, along with the related hedonism.

If you want to ultimately feel good about existing, you have to be able to see the good parts of the world even as the ugly parts are constantly flung in your face. If the world has beauty, then you want to be on the side of goodness and beauty. This doesn't mean you have to be a damn choir boy, but you have to get some satisfaction from positively affecting something or someone outside yourself.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I agree with you that it's difficult to be what you're not. I have a fairly strong work ethic instilled in me. I've worked with someone who had a crazy strong work ethic. Even when the firm we worked for showed their true colours- they wouldn't give her time off to attend a funeral, she still carried on being the loyal, hard working employee. Sometimes it's harder to go against what we have programed into us- even if we can see it isn't in our interests to behave as we do.

Sadly though, asides from the whole 'know thyself' thing, I've given up thinking that good people will be rewarded and shitty people will come unstuck. Fate seems to be random. I don't think Karma is real (sadly.)

 

[lamargue]

most people think they are generally good people. so what about the bad people who think that they are good people, according to someone else's attribution which they have no control over? i assume they will still hold fairly positive views of themselves.

to be a good person is not necessary. many people profit from running counter to the idea of being a good citizen. i say that, so long as you are able to profit in some way, it's arbitrary. even if you are forced to masquerade as good in the hopes of profiting off of this, i would not perceive any real blows to your self-esteem that could manifest tangibly.

operating under the assumption that people are generally bad works better in practice. banking on the fact that you yourself are a good person who can achieve practical outcomes through the demonstration of your own value as a good samaritan is faith-cure. it's more practical to judge social response and try not to run counter to the interests of the community, and operating under the assumption that evil is restrained by a process of social regulation to demonize those who go against the fabric helps, in my opinion, to integrate into said communities

 

[UnluckyBastard]

Rational? No. It's all based on fear of jail or punishment. It's sickening. I hate it

 

[AresCohere]

There is a reason, it may help others. Even if you have no care for them, and even though you may be too far gone, that little bit might have helped someone else up.

Also if you have any religious reasons ig,

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Can't find the clip but there's a Fairly OddParents episode where the message is that "You are not supposed to do good things to feel good about yourself, you're supposed to do them because it is the right thing to do."

Of course if that doesn't make any sense to you then you could always try studying moral philosophy. Or even better you could just watch The Good Place.