TAW122
Emissary of the right to die.
- Aug 30, 2018
- 7,355
I've come across yet another good post and response by the pro-choice Reddit user, existentialgoof (EG) once again, on the topic of CTBing and CTB methods and such. It is not new news that the old and tired argument that has been touted and spewed as 'truth' when in reality it is nothing more than a hasty generalization which fails to take into account all the realities of CTB methods, their efficacy, people who attempt (but fail whether during planning and acquisition, or even during the attempt) and many more variables. Even though now it is 2026, it sadly, still persists and I don't see the view of such a false, hasty generalization will change anytime soon, or maybe it would if there is a push for 'truth' rather than just convenient truths. Anyways, so this was the post (linked here) where EG is talking about governmental (the State) overreach and efficacy of methods, between him and the user, u/Swimreadmed. I've even quoted and emphasized parts of the interaction between the two.
Basically, the crux of this thread is venting and pointing out that many people still erroneously and disingenuously believe in the overly broad generalization that CTB is still being easy and that there are no meaningful obstacles that prevent one who really wants to from doing so. That is far, far from the truth because there ARE indeed many obstacles preventing one from being able to 'reliably do so' as EG has explained in his posts and responses between him and the others in that thread. Of course, the difference though is I wouldn't really entertain arguing back and forth, but will just call out the disingenuity of such arguments and cite a counter-example.
Imagine if someone did say that (insert minority group or marginalized group) is not being persecuted or they are in the best times (which is far, from the truth) while ignoring the realities of present day, or take any current social issue that pertains to rights or those living in oppressive jurisdictions, and use the same argument that they do can "xyz" thing and that the State (is not actively stopping them), etc.. Said person would immediately be ousted and cancelled, depending on what they said. Ironically, it even though most people seem to not hastily apply generalizations to marginalized groups or minority groups in society, they either willfully ignorantly knowingly apply such logic to CTB, yet they wouldn't do that when it comes to other things and hide behind ad hominems, insults, or even just false dichotomy, and more, just to defend their stance.
Overall, while I don't (and won't) engage in such bickerings with those people, watching it from EG (and kudos to him for the patience and fortitude to engage in such debates, even if the other side tries to discredit, shun, or otherwise shut him down), I learn a few new arguments as well as see areas to improve on my own. In the end, it seems like either (or maybe both) the pro-lifers, anti-choicers, CTB-preventionists alike seem to either continue to be willfully ignorant (meaning they know their argument and stance doesn't hold, which has been disproven time and time again, and will continue to be disproven) just to maintain their "sacred view on the sanctity of life", or even just continue to lazily rely on media tropes and surface level (did not do their homework or even put any effort to do so and) so they continue to spew false information and generalizations about the efficacy of CTB methods and the act of CTB itself.
| The government is stopping people from committing suicide by banning all of the most reliable and humane methods (which causes the vast majority of attempts to fail and deters countless others from attempting) and empowering the emergency services to deprive someone of their liberty if they are even suspected of planning to do that. They don't need to make suicide de jure illegal, especially as they can confine people indefinitely in suicide proofed spaces, and have such a high rate of thwarting attempts. Your argument is extremely disingenuous because on the one hand, you're trying to pretend that no meaningful obstacles exist to suicide. But yet if I were to propose simply decriminalising the provision of highly effective and humane methods, and stripping the state of its suicide prevention powers (all of which can be done WITHOUT granting people a positive legal right to be helped to die via the healthcare service), I'm sure that you'd insist that we can't roll back suicide prevention one tiny bit. |
Basically, the crux of this thread is venting and pointing out that many people still erroneously and disingenuously believe in the overly broad generalization that CTB is still being easy and that there are no meaningful obstacles that prevent one who really wants to from doing so. That is far, far from the truth because there ARE indeed many obstacles preventing one from being able to 'reliably do so' as EG has explained in his posts and responses between him and the others in that thread. Of course, the difference though is I wouldn't really entertain arguing back and forth, but will just call out the disingenuity of such arguments and cite a counter-example.
Imagine if someone did say that (insert minority group or marginalized group) is not being persecuted or they are in the best times (which is far, from the truth) while ignoring the realities of present day, or take any current social issue that pertains to rights or those living in oppressive jurisdictions, and use the same argument that they do can "xyz" thing and that the State (is not actively stopping them), etc.. Said person would immediately be ousted and cancelled, depending on what they said. Ironically, it even though most people seem to not hastily apply generalizations to marginalized groups or minority groups in society, they either willfully ignorantly knowingly apply such logic to CTB, yet they wouldn't do that when it comes to other things and hide behind ad hominems, insults, or even just false dichotomy, and more, just to defend their stance.
Overall, while I don't (and won't) engage in such bickerings with those people, watching it from EG (and kudos to him for the patience and fortitude to engage in such debates, even if the other side tries to discredit, shun, or otherwise shut him down), I learn a few new arguments as well as see areas to improve on my own. In the end, it seems like either (or maybe both) the pro-lifers, anti-choicers, CTB-preventionists alike seem to either continue to be willfully ignorant (meaning they know their argument and stance doesn't hold, which has been disproven time and time again, and will continue to be disproven) just to maintain their "sacred view on the sanctity of life", or even just continue to lazily rely on media tropes and surface level (did not do their homework or even put any effort to do so and) so they continue to spew false information and generalizations about the efficacy of CTB methods and the act of CTB itself.
