The Catholic Church's complicated history with suicide

[Jessica5]

The Catholic Church's Own Complicated History with Suicide

While for most of the Church’s history suicide has been considered a grave crime, there were many in the early church whose deaths sound a lot like suicide.

www.thedailybeast.com

Interesting article until the last paragraph. (The mandatory part that says to call a suicide number if you're suicidal.)

A lot of the early martyrs basically committed suicide. The New Testament does say that anybody who dies can't go to heaven until the Second Coming (a teaching that's completely ignored today), but it doesn't say that death by suicide is worse or more sinful than a natural death.

St. Augustine was the first guy who came up with the idea that your life is God's and you can't take your life.

 

[Epsilon0]

I think the problem of suicide is closely connect to the question of despair in christianity.

Unlike Job, who endures trial after trial without losing faith in god's goodness and purpose for him, suiciders despair at the world and their own suffering, and decide to take fate into their own hands, which ultimately means they place themselves above god. God intended suiciders to live and suffer, yet they oppose that and rebell.

Compare the despair of a suicider with the hope and light of a believer who trusts god is there to offer support and guidance:

Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

Martyrs are the exact opposite of suiciders. They willingly submit themselves to death in order to prove their faith. Whereas suiciders despair at the world, martyrs do not: they believe they will rejoice in god's presence in heaven for all eternity.

(I am an atheist, just so there's no confusion about my intentions here).

 

[Rosiel]

Very interesting article, thanks for sharing. Guilt is an awful emotion and as someone who grew up getting primary education from a highly religious, Catholic school, I often find myself feeling extremely guilty for my plans and views on suicide (I am now Agnostic with some spiritual leanings). Reading this article confirms to me that what we know today as divine religious rules are nothing but subjective interpretations and rules set out by certain individuals in history.

 

[calendulo]

It is hilarious. Imho, of course, specially about the purgatory, Which one?. I guess will be Dante' s Comedy Divine.
Good one. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Epsilon0]

It is hilarious. Imho, of course, specially about the purgatory, Which one?. I guess will be Dante' s Comedy Divine.
Good one. Thanks for sharing.

The Divine Comedy is a work of fiction. Just like christianity.

 

[Darkhaven]

Even if you endure life's challenges and tribulations in the end nothing assures you that your efforts will be rewarded. You can't trust the God in the bible. He never gave any reasons for humans to trust him. He can pretty much pat you in the back in one second and send a torrent of fire and sulfur to fall over your house or city and just melt you to oblivion in the other.
I have a hard time understanding why people put so much faith in that creature. What does he do for them? In what way has helped them?

 

[calendulo]

The Divine Comedy is a work of fiction. Just like christianity.

I am agree, but it is not just a work, it is a great work. A Masterpiece.
I understand you. It is hard to believe, sometimes; specially in the Coran, when it says that Christ was a Profet. Hilarious too.
The books are useless.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

Everyone who is interested in this should read Hobbes "On suicide".

I am an atheist and he still convinced me that God doesn't care about suicide lol

 

[somedude123]

The christian god is both hilariously incompetent (despite being described as all-knowing) and malevolent (despite being described as all-good.) Why would an all-knowing being allow for someone to die in a manner he deems sinful. Why would an all-good and all-powerful being let someone suffer to the point that they want to take their own life, and as punishment for something he could've prevented (because he has the power and knowledge to) let them suffer for all eternity. Free will isn't an argument, as we cannot do something that an all-knowing being can't predict beforehand, either the christian god is all-knowing and every one of our actions align with his predictions, and consequently free will doesn't exist, or he isn't all knowing, and therefore your "inerrant bible" has at least one error. Pick your poison christians.

 

[calendulo]

Everyone who is interested in this should read Hobbes "On suicide".

I am an atheist and he still convinced me that God doesn't care about suicide lol

I did not see that, I have not read Hobbes; I would rather Hume.
Was Hobbes who said something like The man is a wolf for the man, or something like that.?
Could be wrong, but Hobbes is categorized as a violent philosopher. It is a hardcore guy. Congratulations.


I am agree I think God does not care if anyone kill himself or herself.

Add: sorry. One like for you.

 

[Mr. ‘K so?]

The Divine Comedy is a work of fiction. Just like christianity.

Fanfiction. He put all the great Greek hero's from the Trojan war in hell along with anyone he didn't like.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

I did not see that, I have not read Hobbes; I would rather Hume.
Was Hobbes who said something like The man is a wolf for the man, or something like that.?
Could be wrong, but Hobbes is categorized as a violent philosopher. It is a hardcore guy. Congratulations.


I am agree I think God does not care if anyone kill himself or herself.

Add: sorry. One like for you.

Shit I meant Hume if course

 

[Epsilon0]

Hobbes' Leviathan - it's hard to see in this photo but his body is made up of people. I subscribe to his theory about the state.

 

[puppy9]

I'm not a Christian, and I'm an idiot so correct me if I'm wrong.

Christians in the past would confess all their sins and kill themself; to go to heaven. Is this true?

 

[dxnys]

Thanks for sharing.
May God forgives us

 

[calendulo]

I am not quite clear this debate.
Catholic Church related Christ, and both related with suicide. The new testament, which one of them?.
Guess there will be people who will love Christ and others will not.
And what about orthodox church?. That man shows up in their icons is Christ.

There will be people who will think Christ was the first Comunist, there will be a thousand opinions.

I am sure that Christ would say you...............If you are happy and it is what you want to do, the deliverance...........then do it. While he is combining weed with the tobacco a makes a huge joint.

 

[TAW122]

This is a good article, thanks for sharing. Also, yes I agree that so many modern day Christians (no offense and not saying all but most of them) seem to conflate suicide with being a 'sin' and/or cite certain Bible passages that forbid suicide. Even though I'm an atheist myself, I've read the Bible before and probably understand it more than the religious people themselves and no where did I find the Bible 'explicitly' state suicide to be a sin. In fact, there are Biblical stories of certain people CTB'ing, some altruistically for bigger causes than themselves and one that is out of guilt (Judas Iscariot for instance).

Of course, given how suicide is (still) such a taboo topic in the world, I don't want to risk red flags by bringing up said topic, but it's something I've considered doing to proven them wrong. Again, as much as I wished to do so, I'm refraining from doing so because I'd rather not draw attention or risk to myself (anything that could get in my way of my planning to CTB).

 

[Jessica5]

This is a good article, thanks for sharing. Also, yes I agree that so many modern day Christians (no offense and not saying all but most of them) seem to conflate suicide with being a 'sin' and/or cite certain Bible passages that forbid suicide. Even though I'm an atheist myself, I've read the Bible before and probably understand it more than the religious people themselves and no where did I find the Bible 'explicitly' state suicide to be a sin. In fact, there are Biblical stories of certain people CTB'ing, some altruistically for bigger causes than themselves and one that is out of guilt (Judas Iscariot for instance).

Of course, given how suicide is (still) such a taboo topic in the world, I don't want to risk red flags by bringing up said topic, but it's something I've considered doing to proven them wrong. Again, as much as I wished to do so, I'm refraining from doing so because I'd rather not draw attention or risk to myself (anything that could get in my way of my planning to CTB).

There isn't a single biblical passage that condemns suicide. If somebody's claiming to cite the Bible to condemn suicide, they have to be making up a passage.

Suicide is barely mentioned in the Bible. When suicide is mentioned in the Bible, it just says somebody committed suicide without discussing the morality of the act. (Ie Matthew 27:5 "And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.")