Discussion Suicide Rate

[Demian]

If suicide were allowed, seen as normal, and all people had access to more peaceful methods, do you think how many % of society would commit suicide?

 

[Emeralds]

About 1 percent of people commit suicide every year now. If euthanasia was available to everyone, the suicide rate would only rise slightly. It would still be under 5 percent. Most people aren't suicidal.

According to WHO only 5 percent of people have suicidal thoughts in their lifetime. Most of these people recover and never do it. I suppose the rate could be slightly higher if they don't want to admit that they had suicidal thoughts. Even if you doubled it, it would only be 10 percent which is still not most people.

 

[fleetingnight]

I wonder...Sometimes I think almost everyone has wanted to die at least once before, but is in denial or feels pressure to hide that. I could be projecting. It's just hard for me to see how people could be happy in a world like this.

The highest I could possibly see (only counting adults) is maybe 15%. But idk, I'm not good with numbers. Even if it was legal, the percent of people who do it would still be lower than the percent that want to. SI would still hold a lot of people back (tho not as much with peaceful methods) and people would still feel obligations to friends/family/pets, fear of death, etc.

 

[FuneralCry]

I know at least I'd be long gone, personally I only hope to never exist again, I'd always prefer to not exist over suffering so unnecessarily for potentially decades longer just to be tortured and tormented by old age. Existing will always be completely undesirable to me, I never should have existed at all, to me personally existence just feels like such a terrible, tragic mistake that just brings so much suffering.

 

[MatrixPrisoner]

99%. The 1% would be left to jerk each other off.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

It'd still be super low but I'm immediately checking out if suicide ever becomes peaceful and accessible for me

 

[Praying 4 a Miracle]

The overall suicide rate would go down, if people had access to a peaceful method. Mainly because of the extra peace-of-mind that this would create. Therefore reducing anxiety in people who are suffering chronically. The current system makes people feel trapped and isolated. There would be more people using assisted dying, but far fewer committing risky, unassisted suicide. When you combine both, the net result would be far less people dying from suicide.

 

[Demian]

The overall suicide rate would go down, if people had access to a peaceful method. Mainly because of the extra peace-of-mind that this would create. Therefore reducing anxiety in people who are suffering chronically. The current system makes people feel trapped and isolated. There would be more people using assisted dying, but far fewer committing risky, unassisted suicide. When you combine both, the net result would be far less people dying from suicide.

I think the same

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

If it were legalized, trends could be observed in young people if they divulge abuse as a driver then perhaps some kind of change can happen. A child or teen should have a safe place to escape from toxic family besides the streets.

 

[wren-briar]

If it were legalized, trends could be observed in young people if they divulge abuse as a driver then perhaps some kind of change can happen. A child or teen should have a safe place to escape from toxic family besides the streets.

The statistics would also highlight other social gaps that should be addressed, homelessness, chronic pain that people haven't been able to afford medical care, etc.

 

[willitpass]

We are the minority. Most people want to live. Even many people who have suicidal thoughts don't truly want to go through with it. I think it would help reduce the stigma around suicide enough that it may even lower the rates as people would less hesitant to be open about the thoughts and seek help.

 

[divinemistress36]

5-10%

 

[chester]

If suicide were allowed, seen as normal, and all people had access to more peaceful methods, do you think how many % of society would commit suicide?

Technically speaking suicide is allowed. It's assisting in suicide, providing means, ignoring someone's suicidal behavior and encouraging/driving someone to do it that can get you in trouble. Suicide itself though, I mean, once you're dead then there's really nothing they can do to you, is there?

You're right though, it's often seen as a symptom rather than someone's true intention. Luckily, there are some countries in which assisted suicide is already allowed under some circumstances. Now it's only a matter of shifting the Overton Window.

I think the rates would drop if you ask me. If people knew that it's always an option, they wouldn't feel any pressure to do it like they do now, when they get an opportunity and often act on impulse, because who knows when they'll get a better chance if any. If it was always available, then many people could think "no need to hurry, maybe it's not that bad yet". Unless they would be outnumbered by those who don't have a way of doing it now and are tired of waiting. So my final answer is "they might drop, but ultimately I have no idea".

 

[Demian]

Technically speaking suicide is allowed. It's assisting in suicide, providing means, ignoring someone's suicidal behavior and encouraging/driving someone to do it that can get you in trouble. Suicide itself though, I mean, once you're dead then there's really nothing they can do to you, is there?

You're right though, it's often seen as a symptom rather than someone's true intention. Luckily, there are some countries in which assisted suicide is already allowed under some circumstances. Now it's only a matter of shifting the Overton Window.

I think the rates would drop if you ask me. If people knew that it's always an option, they wouldn't feel any pressure to do it like they do now, when they get an opportunity and often act on impulse, because who knows when they'll get a better chance if any. If it was always available, then many people could think "no need to hurry, maybe it's not that bad yet". Unless they would be outnumbered by those who don't have a way of doing it now and are tired of waiting. So my final answer is "they might drop, but ultimately I have no idea".

Exactly!

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

Now it's only a matter of shifting the Overton Window.

It may unfold like with marijuana. Inroads toward recreational legalization began with medical. One also has to consider industries that would be financially impacted. Terminal illness treatment, EoL care, nursing homes, hospices. Keeping people alive in the last few years of life is an absolute cash cow. The industry may fiercely lobby if significant numbers of people elect to bypass complex and expensive end of life care.

5-10%

10% would be a massive die off. Assuming a US population of 300 million, 10% would be 30 million which translates the entire populations of the 10 most populated cities and then some. Numbers like that would only happen briefly during war, famine, genocide, social collapse.

 

[athiestjoe]

Commented on @divinemistress36 post on this from last week about pretty much the same topic with the following analysis, there the question was about an instant peaceful pill so this mostly focused on comparison to other instant methods, or peaceful option in relation to if N was available but ultimately we kind of get to the same point and does not greatly change my discussion/point so reposting that info here; plus a lot of the same considerations such as access to whatever that method is stands true for this question:

Let's focus on data like the number of attempts each year, as even if someone fails, it still counts as an attempt. However, this only accounts for known attempts; many go unreported.

The U.S. serves as a relevant example due to the prevalence of guns, which provide one of the fastest methods for suicide. While recent gun laws in many states have made access more difficult, for decades people had widespread and affordable access to firearms.

I created this grid based on known reports. However, I believe the actual number of attempts is likely only 2 to 3 times higher than what's reported. Even if we consider a range of 2 to 5 times the averages, the percentage of the population remains relatively low. I focused on some of the top countries because compiling data for every single nation would be time-consuming and probably wouldn't significantly alter the overall findings.

That said, one variable to consider is whether certain countries, like North Korea, might see individuals wanting to escape their circumstances. Factors like this could skew the overall picture, but even in such cases, it's unlikely to increase the global percentage by more than 1%. If people are in oppressive environments, they likely wouldn't have access to options like a peaceful exit. Access and cost are also important variables. Many of the attempts I listed are through very low-cost methods, sometimes even free, like jumping. Therefore, the data I've gathered is probably the most reliable indicator we have for making informed estimates rather than relying on hypotheticals without evidence.

Another factor to consider is how many terminally ill or elderly individuals might choose this method to end their lives. However, I'm not factoring that into my analysis because, when N was accessible, it didn't lead to a disproportionately high percentage of people using it. For example, in Oregon, hundreds received prescriptions for end of life meds but chose not to use them. This supports my hypothesis that the majority of people want to live.

I rounded the population numbers, but used more precise estimates for the percentage calculations. Most of my data comes from the WHO and other international organizations (links will be provided below). For a few countries, I also utilized local data to support my findings. Ultimately, we reach similar conclusions, and the variations aren't significant enough for me to delve deeper. As always, my calculations may have some errors, so I appreciate your understanding! Additionally, some countries, like China, may have unreliable or underreported data, and I suspect that some nations with less stringent reporting might have figures closer to those of the U.S., UK, and Canada. Even if we took the largest % from a reliably reported country, we aren't exactly get a large number anywhere. (I also rounded my numbers for math ease):

Country	Estimated Annual Suicide Attempts	Estimated Annual Suicides	Population (Approx.)	% of Population (Attempts)	% of Population (Suicides)
United States	1,400,000	49,000	331 million	0.422%	0.015%
India	1,000,000	150,000 - 200,000	1.4 billion	0.071%	0.011% - 0.014%
China	500,000 - 600,000	100,000 - 120,000	1.4 billion	0.036% - 0.043%	0.007% - 0.009%
Russia	500,000 - 600,000	40,000	144 million	0.347% - 0.417%	0.028%
Brazil	400,000	13,000	213 million	0.188%	0.006%
Canada	400,000	4,000	39 million	1.026%	0.010%
Bangladesh	150,000	20,000	166 million	0.090%	0.012%
Japan	120,000	20,000	125 million	0.096%	0.016%
Indonesia	100,000	10,000	276 million	0.036%	0.004%
South Korea	100,000	13,000	52 million	0.192%	0.025%
Germany	100,000	9,000	83 million	0.120%	0.011%
Nigeria	216,000	20,000	216 million	0.100%	0.009%
South Africa	60,000	12,000	60 million	0.100%	0.020%
Philippines	60,000	3,000	113 million	0.053%	0.003%
Pakistan	50,000	6,000	240 million	0.021%	0.002%
Mexico	40,000	7,000	126 million	0.032%	0.006%
Thailand	30,000	4,000	70 million	0.043%	0.006%
Australia	30,000	3,000	26 million	0.115%	0.012%
Italy	30,000	4,000	60 million	0.050%	0.007%
France	80,000	9,000	65 million	0.123%	0.014%
Argentina	12,000	3,000	45 million	0.027%	0.007%
Spain	20,000	3,000	47 million	0.043%	0.006%
Colombia	8,000	3,000	51 million	0.016%	0.006%
Morocco	8,000	1,000	37 million	0.022%	0.003%
Norway	8,000	600	5 million	0.160%	0.012%
Kenya	15,000	3,000	55 million	0.027%	0.005%
Uganda	12,000	3,000	46 million	0.026%	0.007%
Ethiopia	150,000	20,000	119 million	0.126%	0.017%
Finland	15,000	1,000	5.5 million	0.273%	0.018%
Belgium	7,000	1,200	11.5 million	0.061%	0.010%
Greece	5,000	1,200	10 million	0.050%	0.012%
Chile	3,000	700	19 million	0.016%	0.004%
Ireland	4,000	500	5 million	0.080%	0.010%
DR Congo	95,000	10,000	95 million	0.100%	0.011%
South Sudan	5,000	500	10 million	0.050%	0.005%
Venezuela	5,000	1,000	33 million	0.015%	0.003%
Australia	30,000	3,000	26 million	0.115%	0.012%
Thailand	30,000	4,000	70 million	0.043%	0.006%

Sources Considered Include: World Bank - Data on Health, CDC USA, World Health Organization, NHS UK, Euro Stat, ONS UK, Canada Suicide Stats, NCRB India, AIHW Australia

To note, the average of this cross section of 40 countries is 0.085% for attempt and 0.009% for success off of the total populations.

Thus, I truly think it would be around 1-2% maybe up to 3-4% even for argument sake that these numbers were outrageously low and to take into account the possible additions of people in some authortian countries opting to exit vs exist in their awful conditions and assuming they even had access/funds/ability to get it (which they probably would not) and to take into account any possible extra appeal there was a peaceful pill (again though, for so long there WAS a peacful pill option so I think that is a pretty good indicator this fact alone does not change the overall point the overwhelming vast majority of people want to actually live). Given no country even reaches 0.5% and considering the average, it is probably on the lower end of what I'd guess.

Ultimately, I can only speak for myself is that if there was a peaceful pill it would be down my throat immediately when it became available and if I could afford it! But I also know I am in the extreme minority of society who truly wants to exit and CTB!