Venting Suicide by harassment, is it a free decision?

[Dead Ghost]

Suicide by harassment, is it a free decision?

I don't feel well, not well at all... in another forum -of video games- a member has committed suicide because he was being harassed. That is, he has not decided to kill himself, but a bunch of third parties have induced him to suicide through repeatedly insulting him in forums and social networks. In my thinking I am pro-choice and that means that only oneself, without interference from anyone, can reflect on his life and put an end to it as he wishes best.

This is not the case of a person who throws himself off a balcony because he is trapped in a fire or, in that guy's case, because he was trapped in some sort of vortex of perpetual public scorn and humiliation.

I'm so sorry because my first thought was if he was a member of this forum and he was one of so many on here who want to end his life because of his stalkers.
I am not besieged by anyone, there are no third parties inducing me to suicide, mine is a decision totally free from outside pressures.. and I wish all the people we meet here also had this freedom of decision and not being sent here by the hatred of other people who want them dead.

I guess it's been a pretty strange couple of weeks, my father died a week ago of cancer and he had Alzheimer's, I mean he died until he couldn't anymore...the cruelty of human society at its finest that makes us live to the point of exhaustion.
I am not too affected by the deaths of others because in my head they are always alive to the point that many times, in the middle of the street, I think that I will meet them without realizing that it is impossible...
... I'm already making a mess of myself as I write, mixing up everything that goes through my head.

I am like in a rather unpleasant internal conflict... I mean I defend the free decision of each one to end his life as he deems more convenient in order not to reach cases like my father's but at the same time I think I have the duty to help and make desist from suicide to those people who are being besieged by people who hate them or simply have fun making them suffer until they kill themselves.

And inside me I am very confused, the anxiety that I always have does not let me think well and there are times that I understand and other times that I don't and everything is mixed up again.
I am sad because I don't understand what is happening to my head, I feel guilty for supporting suicide in people who have not chosen it freely... I didn't realize it until yesterday.

I need to read you, even if they are opposing opinions to what I have written, they are also useful to guide me, I learn from everyone whatever their opinion or their way of expressing themselves.

Thank you

//

El suïcidi per assetjament, és una decisió lliure?

No em trobo pas bé, gens bé... en un altre fòrum -de videojocs- un membre s'ha suïcidat perquè l'estaven assetjant. És a dir, ell no ha decidit matar-se, sino que un grapat de terceres persones li han induït el suïcidi a través d'injuriar-lo de forma reiterada en fòrums i xarxes socials. En el meu pensament sóc pro-elecció i això vol dir que només un mateix, sense injerència de ningú, pot reflexionar respecte a la seva vida i posar-li fi com desitgi més convenient.

No és el cas d'una persona que es llença pel balcó perquè està atrapat en un incendi o en el cas d'aquest noi perquè estava atrapat en una espècie de vòrtex d'escarni i humil·liació pública perpetuus.

Em sap molt de greu perquè el primer que vaig pensar es si era membre d'aquest fòrum i era un de tants dels que hi han aquí que volen posar fí a la seva vida a causa dels seus assetjadors.
A mi no m'assetja ningú, no hi ha pas terceres persones que m'indueixin al suïcidi, la meva és una decisió totament lliure de pressions al·lienes.. i m'agradaría que totes les persones que ens trobem aquí també tinguessin aquesta llibertat de decisió i no pas que estiguessin sent enviades aquí per l'odi d'altres persones que les volen mortes.

Suposo que ha estat un parell de setmanes força estranyes, el meu pare va morir fa una setmana de càncer i tenía alzhèimer, és a dir, va morir fins que no va poder més.. la crueltat de la societat humana en la seva màxima expressió que ens fa viure fins l'extenuació.
A mi no m'afecten gaire les morts dels altres perquè dins el meu cap sempre segueixen vius fins el punt que moltes vegades, al bell mig del carrer, pensó que me'ls trobaré sense adonar-me'n que és impossible...
... ja m'estic fent un embolic mentre's escric barrejant tot el que em passa pel cap..

Estic com en un conflicte intern força desagradable... vull dir que defenso la lliure decissió de cadascú de posar fí a la seva vida com estimi més convenient per no arribar a casos com el del meu pare però alhora crec que tinc el deure d'ajudar i fer desistir del suïcidi a aquelles persones que estàn sent assetjades per gent que les odia o simplement es diverteix fent-les patir fins que es maten.

I dins meu estic molt confós, l'ansietat que tinc sempre no em deixa pensar bé i hi ha estones que ho entenc i d'altres estones que no i se'm torna a barrejar tot.
Estic trist perquè no entenc que li passa amb al meu cap, em sento com culpable de recolzar el suïcidi en persones que no l'han triat lliurement.. no me n'havia adonat d'aquest fet fins ahír.

Necessito llegir-vos, més igual que siguin opinions oposades al que he escrit, també em serveixen per guiar-me, jo aprenc de tothom sigui quina sigui la seva opinió o la seva forma d'expressar-se.

Mercès

//

El suicidio por acoso, ¿es una decisión libre?

No me encuentro bien, nada bien... en otro foro -de videojuegos- un miembro se ha suicidado porque le estaban acosando. Es decir, él no ha decidido matarse, sino que un puñado de terceras personas le han inducido el suicidio a través de injuriarle de forma reiterada en foros y redes sociales. En mi pensamiento soy pro-elección y eso significa que sólo uno mismo, sin injerencia de nadie, puede reflexionar respecto a su vida y ponerle fin como desee más conveniente.

No es el caso de una persona que se tira por el balcón porque está atrapado en un incendio o, en el caso de ese chico, porque estaba atrapado en una especie de vórtice de escarnio y humillación pública perpetuos.

Lo siento mucho porque lo primero que pensé es si era miembro de este foro y era uno de tantos de los que hay aquí que quieren poner fin a su vida a causa de sus acosadores.
A mí no me asedia nadie, no hay terceras personas que me induzcan al suicidio, la mía es una decisión totalmente libre de presiones ajenas.. y me gustaría que todas las personas que nos encontramos aquí también tuvieran esta libertad de decisión y no que estuvieran siendo enviadas aquí por el odio de otras personas que las quieren muertas.

Supongo que ha sido un par de semanas bastante extrañas, mi padre murió hace una semana de cáncer y tenía alzhéimer, es decir, murió hasta que no pudo más.. la crueldad de la sociedad humana en su máxima expresión que nos hace vivir hasta la extenuación.
A mí no me afectan demasiado las muertes de los demás porque en mi cabeza siempre siguen vivos hasta el punto de que muchas veces, en medio de la calle, pienso que me los encontraré sin darme cuenta de que es imposible...
... ya me estoy haciendo un lío mientras escribo mezclando todo lo que me pasa por la cabeza.

Estoy como en un conflicto interno bastante desagradable... quiero decir que defiendo la libre decisión de cada uno de poner fin a su vida como estime más conveniente para no llegar a casos como el de mi padre pero al mismo tiempo creo que tengo el deber de ayudar y hacer desistir del suicidio a aquellas personas que están siendo asediadas por gente que las odia o simplemente se divierte haciéndolas sufrir hasta que se matan.

Y dentro de mí estoy muy confundido, la ansiedad que tengo siempre no me deja pensar bien y hay ratos que lo entiendo y otros ratos que no y se me vuelve a mezclar todo.
Estoy triste porque no entiendo que le ocurre con mi cabeza, me siento como culpable de apoyar el suicidio en personas que no lo han elegido libremente.. no me había dado cuenta de ello hasta ayer.

Necesito leeros, me da igual que sean opiniones opuestas a lo que he escrito, también me sirven para guiarme, yo aprendo de todo el mundo sea cual sea su opinión o su forma de expresarse.

Gracias

 

[LaVieEnRose]

I recently heard the idea that suicide was often in actuality murder by society/the community. I think that's very true, especially as evidenced in cases like this.

 

[jodes2]

I think free will is an illusion. We all always just do the best we can, given our nature and environment. Our choices are predictable, given what we go through, and our tendencies. We have internal programming or algorithms that are destined to make certain decisions given certain stimulus. For a group of people, it's easy to predict that there will be a certain number of various actions. It's all pretty bound to determinism.

 

[Forever Sleep]

It's heart breaking when people are literally bullied into doing something desperate. I have seen cases where youngsters are bullied or blackmailed to the point where they take their own lives.

I do see what you mean- some people are more backed into a corner than others when it comes to CTB. Their perpetrators certainly have blood on their hands then- although the terrible thing is that they will unlikely be punished and may not even feel responsibility or remorse- if they are so unfeeling to begin with.

My first thoughts of suicide were in direct response to an individual. It's hard to say whether it still isn't an act of autonomy though- if someone goes ahead with it. I imagine all of our motives are to get out of an unpleasant situation. We would maybe stay if that situation was more bearable. It's obviously more mallicious when it's ACTUAL people involved- still- the desire to be free of it is the same whether you are in pain, in financial difficulties, or, being bullied.

I guess maybe the tragedy of bullying is- it quite often affects very young people. They simply can't see a way out of the situation. I think to some extent- things don't affect you quite so much as you get older. Still- obviously it depends on how much someone is being harassed.

As far as you are concerned though- I think all you can be is sympathetic to someone who is suffering. None of us can REALLY know whether CTB is the best solution for any of us. I think we can often tell if someone is unsure though- in which case- most people will encourage them to try recovery.

In order for the man you mentioned to regain control of his life- he would have had to face all those bullies and find a way of getting them to back off. If he hadn't been so damaged by the experience to make him a recluse- he then would have had to make new friendships and try to rid himself of the fear of it all happening again. Perhaps he just felt like he couldn't face that.

I often think that many of us DO indeed know what we'd need to do to make our lives better. We don't always NEED a therapist or life coach to tell us. Some of us just don't feel like we can or want to face all that though. I'm not so sure that's always 'wrong'. It surely has to be up to the individual. I expect many of us feel like misfits in a way. Sometimes it can feel just too exhausting to try and change ourselves- or- to not be bothered by other people's opinions of us. It's not 'right' and it's not 'ideal' but bottom line is that you can't change other people for the main part- there will ALWAYS be bullies in this world. If we then don't have the strength to change ourselves either- it's no wonder CTB looks like the more appealing alternative.

 

[d3c96524be95]

I don't think there's a real dilemma to have here. Pretty much anyone who CBTs (or tries to) does so because of some regrettable turn of events. We can always say "what if we had done this or that" in retrospect, and indeed very often things could have been handled better, but it doesn't necessarily imply that the decision was not taken "freely". Free doesn't mean unbiased and doesn't imply any form of justice. I'm sure pretty much any member on this forum who committed did so because they were failed in some way and because they saw no other way out (be it true or false).

This is no justification at all to the abusers' behavior by the way. Don't know the details of this saddening story, but it seems that the social contract was also broken at some point (as this boy was afraid to talk or left unheard). Society…

 

[Anzhe]

He was just a cowardly who could not fight back. I have been working as an escort since the age of 15 and constantly face condemnation, public contempt and humiliation - and this dont bothers me - I don't give a shit about someone else's opinion. The only thing that upsets me is that I have no power and I have few ways to take revenge and all these ways are pathetic. People are so interested in other people's opinions and therefore so unhappy. They look for problems where there are often none. You can just say - oh, I won't even shit on your grave - shove your opinion up your ass - and that's it. Such people have no real problems and that is why they are so concerned about other people's opinions. I envy such fools - I would gladly trade my illness for such imaginary problems. Last year I had to take quite a few days off due to rheumatism - in December my back hurt terribly - it even hurt to go to the toilet. These are real problems. I'd gladly trade places with this schmck. One mrn has been stalking me since 2020 and constantly writes all sorts of shit about me - although I'm angry that I took little revenge on him, his opinion does not interest me. Maybe if he was as handsome as Till Schweiger - then it would be a shame)) but i dont give a scht about opinion of some old freak with whom I won't go to bed even at gunpoint)))

 

[Forever Sleep]

I recently heard the idea that suicide was often in actuality murder by society/the community. I think that's very true, especially as evidenced in cases like this.

It's an interesting idea. I think it definitely CAN be true. Still- I suppose I also ask- how much should society 'bend' to make us 'happy'? How reasonable is that? Of course- there definitely IS a lot of appalling exploitation, neglect and harassment that DOES go on and that surely DOES contribute to people wanting to CTB.

I guess I just think of myself though. I've been highly privileged in many ways. My health isn't too bad. I've had an education. I've never gone hungry. I've been unhappy in every job I've ever had though- apart from creative freelance work. SHOULD society create a job for me and people like me- just so we can be 'happy' or- feel fulfilled at least? Maybe it should- I paid shit loads for my education after all- what business have they offering such courses at such high cost- when the chances of employment are so low?

I suppose I'm realising that I'm maybe the one being unreasonable though- other people work in these places without becoming desperately suicidal! In fact- it seems to me that LOTS of people hate their jobs without killing themselves.

I suppose the other argument is criminals. Are ALL criminals 'created' by society? Some are- definitely. Still- not EVERYONE who has a tough upbringing goes on to become a criminal. Not EVERYONE who has a difficult life kills themself.

I DEFINITELY think by and large- the larger society and governments don't care about the common people. Still- they like to pretend that they do- so- they do provide SOME support. It's sometimes up to the individual as to how much they want to fight and accept help. Ultimately- that IS down to autonomy. SOME people live through the most horrendous bad fortune and manage to succeed, others simply don't see the point.

What I would say is that suicide is almost AWAYS an act of rebellion against something- and that may well be society. Maybe one of the biggest motives for me wanting to CTB is because I simply don't want to be a wage slave again.

 

[SexyIncél]

I am like in a rather unpleasant internal conflict... I mean I defend the free decision of each one to end his life as he deems more convenient in order not to reach cases like my father's but at the same time I think I have the duty to help and make desist from suicide to those people who are being besieged by people who hate them or simply have fun making them suffer until they kill themselves.

Bullies have an audience. Usually the audience does nothing, thus enabling the bullies. They're complicit with the bullies

 

[Anzhe]

It's an interesting idea. I think it definitely CAN be true. Still- I suppose I also ask- how much should society 'bend' to make us 'happy'? How reasonable is that? Of course- there definitely IS a lot of appalling exploitation, neglect and harassment that DOES go on and that surely DOES contribute to people wanting to CTB.

I guess I just think of myself though. I've been highly privileged in many ways. My health isn't too bad. I've had an education. I've never gone hungry. I've been unhappy in every job I've ever had though- apart from creative freelance work. SHOULD society create a job for me and people like me- just so we can be 'happy' or- feel fulfilled at least? Maybe it should- I paid shit loads for my education after all- what business have they offering such courses at such high cost- when the chances of employment are so low?

I suppose I'm realising that I'm maybe the one being unreasonable though- other people work in these places without becoming desperately suicidal! In fact- it seems to me that LOTS of people hate their jobs without killing themselves.

I suppose the other argument is criminals. Are ALL criminals 'created' by society? Some are- definitely. Still- not EVERYONE who has a tough upbringing goes on to become a criminal. Not EVERYONE who has a difficult life kills themself.

I DEFINITELY think by and large- the larger society and governments don't care about the common people. Still- they like to pretend that they do- so- they do provide SOME support. It's sometimes up to the individual as to how much they want to fight and accept help. Ultimately- that IS down to autonomy. SOME people live through the most horrendous bad fortune and manage to succeed, others simply don't see the point.

What I would say is that suicide is almost AWAYS an act of rebellion against something- and that may well be society. Maybe one of the biggest motives for me wanting to CTB is because I simply don't want to be a wage slave again.

society cannot make a criminal out of a person - this is just an excuse for psychopaths. Do you think there are no psychopaths, murderers and thieves among rich and successful people? There are more of them on Wall Street than anywhere else! They just have money to pay off bribes. They just cover their tracks smarter. Or do they have money to hire killers and do something by someones else hands))
Vladimir Putin is one of the richest men in the world, he has unlimited power in ruSSia, but he deals with his enemies with such brutality and originality. What can be the excuse? Society forces him to kill?)) No - it's just a thirst for blood, a thirst for revenge, a desire to eliminate the threat, a desire to retain power.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

It's an interesting idea. I think it definitely CAN be true. Still- I suppose I also ask- how much should society 'bend' to make us 'happy'? How reasonable is that? Of course- there definitely IS a lot of appalling exploitation, neglect and harassment that DOES go on and that surely DOES contribute to people wanting to CTB.

But not being harassed to the point of suicide is hardly an unreasonable thing to expect. There are whole websites devoted to harassment campaigns of people that probably count the victim's suicide as a victory. This is just a pretty cut-and-dry example of that idea and it's certainly nothing novel. Not just among the young. There was a professor targeted by cancel culture who was driven to suicide. Not just among regular folk either: a beautiful actress at the height of her career made some ill-considered tweets and was harassed and she said she found herself on her balcony contemplating jumping. That should tell people how anyone can be susceptible to suicidal ideation.

 

[SexyIncél]

society cannot make a criminal out of a person - this is just an excuse for psychopaths. Do you think there are no psychopaths, murderers and thieves among rich and successful people? There are more of them on Wall Street than anywhere else!

A society can have rules that reward psychopaths and punish empathy. So normal people usually must act at least a little psychopathic to do well. A CEO might be a nice person, but have to act like a psychopath in their role -- or be replaced by someone who will

There was a documentary about corporations as psychopaths. (They are legal persons)

 

[Dead Ghost]

He was just a cowardly who could not fight back. I have been working as an escort since the age of 15 and constantly face condemnation, public contempt and humiliation - and this dont bothers me - I don't give a shit about someone else's opinion. The only thing that upsets me is that I have no power and I have few ways to take revenge and all these ways are pathetic. People are so interested in other people's opinions and therefore so unhappy. They look for problems where there are often none. You can just say - oh, I won't even shit on your grave - shove your opinion up your ass - and that's it. Such people have no real problems and that is why they are so concerned about other people's opinions. I envy such fools - I would gladly trade my illness for such imaginary problems. Last year I had to take quite a few days off due to rheumatism - in December my back hurt terribly - it even hurt to go to the toilet. These are real problems. I'd gladly trade places with this schmck. One mrn has been stalking me since 2020 and constantly writes all sorts of shit about me - although I'm angry that I took little revenge on him, his opinion does not interest me. Maybe if he was as handsome as Till Schweiger - then it would be a shame)) but i dont give a scht about opinion of some old freak with whom I won't go to bed even at gunpoint)))

There are people who have mental problems and others only physical ones (I have mental and physical ones feeding back continuously), I suppose that you are a mentally strong person (in relation to the topic of this thread I mean) and that is why it is difficult for you to accept the mental weakness of others in certain circumstances... this does not mean that everything you have said is not true, it is, but I think you should take out that negative point that gives it the appearance of banality or unimportance.
Precisely mental illnesses attack the strength of the person and damage those emotional pillars that would allow him/her to face the personal attacks of other people... that is to say, they damage the resilience of the person.

I am reviewing the text because I would not like you to feel offended by my comment as I understand your point of view perfectly. I just wanted to let you know what I have told you, that mentally weak people suffer in another way and that to label their problems as 'NOT real' is a mistake that is made by many sectors of society, and that is precisely what makes some people end their lives when faced with the incomprehension of others or lack of support for their suffering.

Regarding your personal suffering I am sorry, I have many health problems that make my day to day life not as pleasant as I would like,.... They are not serious but quite annoying, to the point that mixed with depression and anxiety makes a good mountain to carry on my shoulders.
I hope you can alleviate the inconvenience of your health problems soon and thank you for your contribution to the thread. All opinions are important.

//

Hi ha persones que tenen problemes mentals i d'altres només físics (jo tinc mentals i físics retroalimentant-se continuament), suposo que ets una persona mentalment forta (en relació al tema d'aquest fil em refereixo) i per això et costa acceptar la debilitat mental dels altres en segons quines circumstàncies... això no vol dir pas que tot el que hagis dit no sigui cert, ho és, però trobo que li hauries de treure aquest punt negatiu que li dona aparença de banalitat o poca importància.
Precisament les malalties mentals ataquen la fortalesa de la persona i fan malbé aquells pilars emocionals que li permetrien fer front als atacs personals d'altres persones... és a dir, fan malbé la resiliencia de la persona.

Estic repasant el text perquè no m'agradaria pas que et sentissis ofés pel meu comentari ja que entenc perfectament el teu punt de vista. Només et volia fer saber el que t'he dit, que les persones mentalment débils pateixen d'una altre manera i que titllar els seus problemes com a 'NO reals' és un error que es comet desde molts sectors de la societat, i és precisament això el que fa que davant la incomprenssió dels altres o manca de suport vers el seu patiment algunes persones posin fí a la seva vida.

Respecte el teu patiment personal em sap greu, jo tinc força problemes de salut que fan que el meu día a día no sigui tant mínimament agradable com desitjaría,... no són pas greus però si força molestos, fins el punt que barrejats amb la depressió i l'ansietat fa una bona muntanya que carregar a les meves espatlles.
Espero que puguis pal·liar aviat els inconvenients dels teus problemes de salut i gràcies per la teva aportació a fil. Totes les opinions són importants.

 

[HayBunny23]

This is a challenging thing. With the way the world is, I don't feel like any of us can make a 100% pressure free decision on suicide. If his whole life is harassment, then isn't is logical you'd want to escape it? You could easily say I'm being pressured into a decision by my own body since I have chronic pain. I see lots of "poor people" ctb so they don't have to be poor, you could say poverty forced their decision.
I feel like choice implies that you choose the best decision with what information you have. If your life just happens to be a shite draw, it doesn't mean you are any less logical in your decision. At the end of the day, I don't know what's in their head that makes them want to do it and that's why I think they should be free to choose.

 

[Anzhe]

There are people who have mental problems and others only physical ones (I have mental and physical ones feeding back continuously), I suppose that you are a mentally strong person (in relation to the topic of this thread I mean) and that is why it is difficult for you to accept the mental weakness of others in certain circumstances... this does not mean that everything you have said is not true, it is, but I think you should take out that negative point that gives it the appearance of banality or unimportance.
Precisely mental illnesses attack the strength of the person and damage those emotional pillars that would allow him/her to face the personal attacks of other people... that is to say, they damage the resilience of the person.

I am reviewing the text because I would not like you to feel offended by my comment as I understand your point of view perfectly. I just wanted to let you know what I have told you, that mentally weak people suffer in another way and that to label their problems as 'NOT real' is a mistake that is made by many sectors of society, and that is precisely what makes some people end their lives when faced with the incomprehension of others or lack of support for their suffering.

Regarding your personal suffering I am sorry, I have many health problems that make my day to day life not as pleasant as I would like,.... They are not serious but quite annoying, to the point that mixed with depression and anxiety makes a good mountain to carry on my shoulders.
I hope you can alleviate the inconvenience of your health problems soon and thank you for your contribution to the thread. All opinions are important.

//

Hi ha persones que tenen problemes mentals i d'altres només físics (jo tinc mentals i físics retroalimentant-se continuament), suposo que ets una persona mentalment forta (en relació al tema d'aquest fil em refereixo) i per això et costa acceptar la debilitat mental dels altres en segons quines circumstàncies... això no vol dir pas que tot el que hagis dit no sigui cert, ho és, però trobo que li hauries de treure aquest punt negatiu que li dona aparença de banalitat o poca importància.
Precisament les malalties mentals ataquen la fortalesa de la persona i fan malbé aquells pilars emocionals que li permetrien fer front als atacs personals d'altres persones... és a dir, fan malbé la resiliencia de la persona.

Estic repasant el text perquè no m'agradaria pas que et sentissis ofés pel meu comentari ja que entenc perfectament el teu punt de vista. Només et volia fer saber el que t'he dit, que les persones mentalment débils pateixen d'una altre manera i que titllar els seus problemes com a 'NO reals' és un error que es comet desde molts sectors de la societat, i és precisament això el que fa que davant la incomprenssió dels altres o manca de suport vers el seu patiment algunes persones posin fí a la seva vida.

Respecte el teu patiment personal em sap greu, jo tinc força problemes de salut que fan que el meu día a día no sigui tant mínimament agradable com desitjaría,... no són pas greus però si força molestos, fins el punt que barrejats amb la depressió i l'ansietat fa una bona muntanya que carregar a les meves espatlles.
Espero que puguis pal·liar aviat els inconvenients dels teus problemes de salut i gràcies per la teva aportació a fil. Totes les opinions són importants.

You are slightly mistaken in your opinion of me. I am well aware of what mental suffering is, although I do not believe that depression is a disease, I think that depression is a reaction to external circumstances that a person cannot control. I'm just a very tough person - not only in relation to other people, but also in relation to myself. I just don't understand why people want someone's sympathy. To get sympathy, you have to show your weakness. This creates a vicious circle - such people are the most unscrupulous - they use their weakness to get something - even if it's just about sympathy and a good rejection. It's disgusting. I had a friend and one day her husband beat her. The first time I expressed sincere sympathy, but when it happened the second time, I laughed at her and said that she likes to make people sympathize and she is just an emotional vampire. Because she could file a police report, get a divorce, and never let that man treat her like that again. I would do exactly that. Everything is so simple. Most people don't deserve sympathy because they exploit sympathy and manipulate us because they just want attention.

 

[Dead Ghost]

You are slightly mistaken in your opinion of me. I am well aware of what mental suffering is, although I do not believe that depression is a disease, I think that depression is a reaction to external circumstances that a person cannot control. I'm just a very tough person - not only in relation to other people, but also in relation to myself. I just don't understand why people want someone's sympathy. To get sympathy, you have to show your weakness. This creates a vicious circle - such people are the most unscrupulous - they use their weakness to get something - even if it's just about sympathy and a good rejection. It's disgusting. I had a friend and one day her husband beat her. The first time I expressed sincere sympathy, but when it happened the second time, I laughed at her and said that she likes to make people sympathize and she is just an emotional vampire. Because she could file a police report, get a divorce, and never let that man treat her like that again. I would do exactly that. Everything is so simple. Most people don't deserve sympathy because they exploit sympathy and manipulate us because they just want attention.

I am sorry for the misunderstanding. I guess even now, after telling me about it, I don't quite understand your point of view. I apologize, I can only tell you that I will think carefully about what you have stated here.
And thank you for your contribution to the thread.

//

Lamento el malentés. Suposo que tot i ara, després d'explicar-m'ho, no acabo d'entendre ben bé el teu punt de vista. Et demano disculpes, només et puc dir que pensaré bé el que has exposat aquí.
I gràcies per la teva aportació al fil.

 

[Anzhe]

A society can have rules that reward psychopaths and punish empathy. So normal people usually must act at least a little psychopathic to do well. A CEO might be a nice person, but have to act like a psychopath in their role -- or be replaced by someone who will

There was a documentary about corporations as psychopaths. (They are legal persons)

This is just an justification - if a person is good, but he faces some kind of moral dilemma and he chooses the evil solution of his problem, trying to justify himself by the fact that society forces him to act in this way - then he is not such a good person)) he can change jobs and not act like a psychopath. Or admit at least to yourself that he is a true psychopath and he can readily make such a sacrifice without any justification. You just need to have balls so that you don't justify your actions by blaming other people.

I am sorry for the misunderstanding. I guess even now, after telling me about it, I don't quite understand your point of view. I apologize, I can only tell you that I will think carefully about what you have stated here.
And thank you for your contribution to the thread.

//

Lamento el malentés. Suposo que tot i ara, després d'explicar-m'ho, no acabo d'entendre ben bé el teu punt de vista. Et demano disculpes, només et puc dir que pensaré bé el que has exposat aquí.
I gràcies per la teva aportació al fil.

What I'm talking about is that some people are very strange focused too much on other people's attitudes towards them. Maybe if they make a reassessment of values, then their perception of life will change significantly for the better? Here is an example - one old freak laughed at me and wrote to me that I was thin as a skeleton - why should I suffer from this? Moreover, it's not true - I have a fat ass)) Why should I worry about the opinion of a person with whom I don't even want to be paired? Although this man stalked me and hacked my phones, for the most part he was not even worth the time I spent on revenge. My point of view is that you should not attach so much importance to the opinions of other people

 

[LocalAngel]

You are slightly mistaken in your opinion of me. I am well aware of what mental suffering is, although I do not believe that depression is a disease, I think that depression is a reaction to external circumstances that a person cannot control. I'm just a very tough person - not only in relation to other people, but also in relation to myself. I just don't understand why people want someone's sympathy. To get sympathy, you have to show your weakness. This creates a vicious circle - such people are the most unscrupulous - they use their weakness to get something - even if it's just about sympathy and a good rejection. It's disgusting. I had a friend and one day her husband beat her. The first time I expressed sincere sympathy, but when it happened the second time, I laughed at her and said that she likes to make people sympathize and she is just an emotional vampire. Because she could file a police report, get a divorce, and never let that man treat her like that again. I would do exactly that. Everything is so simple. Most people don't deserve sympathy because they exploit sympathy and manipulate us because they just want attention.

Depression can literally be a biological thing given at birth- treatment resistant depression. As to your comments regarding your ex friend's abuse... you really just don't give a fuck about how someone's mentality could be, huh?

Jesus fucking christ. People get attached to their abusers all the time, this kind of shit isn't abnormal for mental illness. "Everything is so simple" just... no. Fucking hell man.

I've had a lot of stalking, CSA, and 6 abusive ex's, not even mentioning friendships and bullying. Naturally, my very traumatized mind goes back to those things- not for attention- but because it became my new normal. Does that make me an emotional vampire? i sure as shit didn't tell anyone about it until after it was done. Jfc, seriously.

 

[Anzhe]

Депрессия может быть в буквальном смысле биологической вещью, данной при рождении, устойчивой к лечению депрессией. Что касается твоих комментариев по поводу жестокого обращения с твоей бывшей подругой... тебе действительно плевать на то, каким может быть чей-то менталитет, а?

Господи, черт возьми. Люди постоянно привязываются к своим обидчикам, такое дерьмо не является ненормальным для психического заболевания. "Все так просто" просто... нет. Чертов адский человек.

У меня было много преследований, CSA и 6 жестоких бывших, не говоря уже о дружбе и издевательствах. Естественно, мой очень травмированный разум возвращается к этим вещам — не для внимания, — а потому, что это стало моей новой нормой. Делает ли это меня эмоциональным вампиром? я уверен, что ни хрена никому не говорил об этом, пока это не было сделано. JFC, серьезно.

If you want a different relationship, then you should not allow yourself to be treated that way. Yes, everything is so simple. If you don't want to be treated badly, just end the relationships. If this is the norm in your life, then you are just a masochist. Your exes probably behave differently now in other ways because their new girlfriends have different behavior patterns. If you allow yourself a bad attitude, no one will appreciate it as a sacriface, they simply will not respect you

 

[LocalAngel]

If you want a different relationship, then you should not allow yourself to be treated that way. Yes, everything is so simple. If you don't want to be treated badly, just end the relationships. If this is the norm in your life, then you are just a masochist. Your exes probably behave differently now in other ways because their new girlfriends have different behavior patterns. If you allow yourself a bad attitude, no one will appreciate it as a sacriface, they simply will not respect you.

My ex's do NOT behave differently whatsoever. They still routinely do horrible things, and i know because i'm friends with people who are still in contact with them. They haven't changed.

"You should not allow yourself to be treated this way"
Ok, what about my cases of emotional manipulation then? I got told repeatedly that if i left this person, then they'd CTB and blame it on me. was THAT a choice? No, it's not. I had to leave anyway. But i only left when i was at my absolute worst, and it got really ugly after the fact. I had to contend with the fact that another persons death could be put on my conscious, due to my actions, and i'm already traumatized as shit. it terrified me.

I am repeatedly forced into relationships and manipulated to repeatedly to stay with them, or else. I've only had 3 relationships that aren't like this. I did not actively seek these people out. Every time, i thought it was healthy. And every time, it wasn't until it was too late.

 

[Anzhe]

My ex's do NOT behave differently whatsoever. They still routinely do horrible things, and i know because i'm friends with people who are still in contact with them. They haven't changed.

"You should not allow yourself to be treated this way"
Ok, what about my cases of emotional manipulation then? I got told repeatedly that if i left this person, then they'd CTB and blame it on me. was THAT a choice? No, it's not. I had to leave anyway. But i only left when i was at my absolute worst, and it got really ugly after the fact. I had to contend with the fact that another persons death could be put on my conscious, due to my actions, and i'm already traumatized as shit. it terrified me.

I am repeatedly forced into relationships and manipulated to repeatedly to stay with them, or else. I've only had 3 relationships that aren't like this. I did not actively seek these people out. Every time, i thought it was healthy. And every time, it wasn't until it was too late.

Why did you let yourself be manipulated? I will just say - ok, do what you want, you can kill yourself - this is your decision, I feel bad with you and the fact that you are manipulating me in these way is disgusting. But you allowed yourself to be raped, you allowed yourself to be manipulated - why? Would you like to win an argument with me right now?)) to show your halo over your head when you think that you saved someone from suicide?)) Most likely their words were lies to just make you feel guilty)) when a person has serious plans for self-murder, he will most likely hide it so that he would not be prevented from doing what he wants. When people ask me how I'm doing, I always say that I'm doing very well! I hope that now you will understand that these people just manipulated you and they did not worth those bad days spent with them. They never had any intention of doing anything to their ass)) it's just tricks and you were so stupid and conceited to fall into this traps

 

[SexyIncél]

This is just an justification - if a person is good, but he faces some kind of moral dilemma and he chooses the evil solution of his problem, trying to justify himself by the fact that society forces him to act in this way - then he is not such a good person)) he can change jobs and not act like a psychopath. Or admit at least to yourself that he is a true psychopath and he can readily make such a sacrifice without any justification. You just need to have balls so that you don't justify your actions by blaming other people.

Irrelevant whether someone's "good" or not. We're not Santa, figuring out who to give presents. Humans are capable of a range of behaviors. Any one of us can be a Nazi gas chamber attendant or a saint. (And some enthusiastic Nazis can think they're saints, while some saints think they're sinners)

But you allowed yourself to be raped, you allowed yourself to be manipulated - why? Would you like to win an argument with me right now?)) to show your halo over your head when you think that you saved someone from suicide?)) ... it's just tricks and you were so stupid and conceited to fall into this traps

Santa clearly doesn't give you presents

@LocalAngel , I'm sorry someone's victim-blaming you cruelly & inappropriately on this forum

 

[LocalAngel]

Irrelevant whether someone's "good" or not. We're not Santa, figuring out who to give presents. Humans are capable of a range of behaviors. Any one of us can be a Nazi gas chamber attendant or a saint. (And some enthusiastic Nazis can think they're saints, while some saints think they're sinners)



Santa clearly doesn't give you presents

@LocalAngel , I'm sorry someone's victim-blaming you cruelly & inappropriately on this forum

They got banned.

Thank you for your kind words stranger. I'm pretty hurt from what happened, but i'm sure i'll get over it.

 

[SamTam33]

I have this (half-baked) theory that people either have the suicide "gene" or they don't. I assume most people don't and that's why they live through some of the most horrific shit and still "Thank the good lord for waking up each morning."

Regardless of the trigger and how inadequate it might seem, if they committed suicide over it - I think there's a strong possibility they were always going to commit suicide. Whether it be now or later, the impetus is there, lying dormant until something disturbs it.

If it wasn't this scenario that drove him to suicide - it was going to be something else. Next month, next year, 20 years from now.

I don't have anything to support this and it's impossible to test because all the subjects have died.

It's unfortunate that other people were seemingly behind his decision to ctb, but if not this, it would've been something else.

Suicide will always be a possibility for us because that's how we're built. It's on our list of 'Possible Solutions.'

I don't know if that makes sense. Like I said, it's just something I suspect with no way of actually proving.