Suicide as a Philosophy

[LaughingGoat]

I am interested to hear if anyone is in a similar situation regarding their feelings toward suicide. For reference, I do struggle with depression and some other things, but primarily my life is fairly stable and I am overall content. When my depression gets particularly bad, my feelings on suicide are more emotional and pathological, but the majority of the time my feelings and thoughts towards suicide are more objective. That I do not consider life and it's inherent meaninglessness to be worth the suffering which accompanies it. I do think about suicide a lot, so it's not something that only pops up when the depression is worse.

Curious if there are others who primarily consider suicide as a logical conclusion to their life, while not necessarily feeling overwhelmed with life.

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

I'm like this too, at this point my suicidality has become detached from whatever malaise--depression, heartbreak, eating disorder, etc.--got me thinking about it in the first place. It is now a philosophical idea, mostly centred around a cost/benefit calculation (the stable zero cost of nonexistence vs the volatile high cost of even a good life). This means that even when I'm not in the throes of a depressive episode, I still maintain that suicide is the optimal path for my life. The only thing that changes with my mood is how ready I am to act on that conclusion.

 

[acephale]

Same case as you, life is meaningless objectify but not subjectively. I don't try to logicalize suicide because I believe what rational and irrationally is determined by society, society will always see suicide as illogical. It is taboo.

My philosophy on suicide is integrated with sacred concept of Georges bataille, which state the human life is dictated by economical excess, this excess needs to be dispersed whether by absorbing it back to mere functionality Or by destroy it by creating sacred things, sacred are things that people get intrigued by like art, music, literature, sacrifice, suicide, religion, death "usually non-functional"

In other words, suicide is like any form of stuff people do to find meaning in life, because what people content themselves with, it has to become sacred, suicidal is content with suicide thus it's sacred to him which deemed as liberation from immense suffering of life or from the objective meaningless of life, other people can find sacredness for example in their partner, religion, fashion...

 

[canthaveanicelife]

In the context of living in today's society, I could see suicide as being a form of response to the absurdity of living or at the least, existence—the other response being, of course, embracing life despite the lack of meaning or purpose to it all. Camus suggested that the proper response to the absurd is to live in defiance of it, creating meaning through what you can call a "personal rebellion".

What he failed to take into account was that this solution is incomplete—inconsiderate even, for individuals who experience profound suffering and despair. The idea of rebellion does not provide a tangible or practical rational/philosophical framework for coping with severe distress. I personally see his insistence on living as imposing—which may be unintentional—an additional arbitrary value on existence which is not accounted for in his writing.

Nevertheless, recognition or perception of a meaningless existence leads to immediate existential despair—that is, the alienation and disconnection of humans from any source of value or purpose. This state of mind reinforces the rationality of choosing suicide as an escape from any degree of suffering, physical or existential. Most people who suffer suicidal ideation—as well as those who have commited suicide—could have viewed suicide in this manner, a logical retreat against an illogical suffering.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Yes, I definitely feel this. I don't think you have to be in utter despair to be able to reason that in some circumstances, suicide is going to look like the best option.

Why would a 'normal' person even be able to look at someone bedbound and in chronic pain who is begging to die and think that looks like a reasonable way to live?!! That's messed up.

My feelings go beyond that in that adults of sound mind should have the right to choose whether their lives feel worth living or not. I believe our lives belong to us.

But yes, even when I've been happier, suicide has always seemed like a valid and likely option I could take one day.

 

[LaughingGoat]

I'm like this too, at this point my suicidality has become detached from whatever malaise--depression, heartbreak, eating disorder, etc.--got me thinking about it in the first place. It is now a philosophical idea, mostly centred around a cost/benefit calculation (the stable zero cost of nonexistence vs the volatile high cost of even a good life). This means that even when I'm not in the throes of a depressive episode, I still maintain that suicide is the optimal path for my life. The only thing that changes with my mood is how ready I am to act on that conclusion.

Absolutely, and I argue that the cost/benefit calculation would result in a negative for all living things when looked at objectively. Basis of anti-natalism philosophy.

Same case as you, life is meaningless objectify but not subjectively. I don't try to logicalize suicide because I believe what rational and irrationally is determined by society, society will always see suicide as illogical. It is taboo.

My philosophy on suicide is integrated with sacred concept of Georges bataille, which state the human life is dictated by economical excess, this excess needs to be dispersed whether by absorbing it back to mere functionality Or by destroy it by creating sacred things, sacred are things that people get intrigued by like art, music, literature, sacrifice, suicide, religion, death "usually non-functional"

In other words, suicide is like any form of stuff people do to find meaning in life, because what people content themselves with, it has to become sacred, suicidal is content with suicide thus it's sacred to him which deemed as liberation from immense suffering of life or from the objective meaningless of life, other people can find sacredness for example in their partner, religion, fashion...

That's a fascinating perspective on suicide that I hadn't considered. The idea of suicide as a sacred thing is certainly observable with us on this forum. Bataille in general is intriguing, I need to get around to reading his writings.

In the context of living in today's society, I could see suicide as being a form of response to the absurdity of living or at the least, existence—the other response being, of course, embracing life despite the lack of meaning or purpose to it all. Camus suggested that the proper response to the absurd is to live in defiance of it, creating meaning through what you can call a "personal rebellion".

What he failed to take into account was that this solution is incomplete—inconsiderate even, for individuals who experience profound suffering and despair. The idea of rebellion does not provide a tangible or practical rational/philosophical framework for coping with severe distress. I personally see his insistence on living as imposing—which may be unintentional—an additional arbitrary value on existence which is not accounted for in his writing.

Nevertheless, recognition or perception of a meaningless existence leads to immediate existential despair—that is, the alienation and disconnection of humans from any source of value or purpose. This state of mind reinforces the rationality of choosing suicide as an escape from any degree of suffering, physical or existential. Most people who suffer suicidal ideation—as well as those who have commited suicide—could have viewed suicide in this manner, a logical retreat against an illogical suffering.

Great points and similarly to your breakdown, I always considered Camus' statement that one should imagine Sisyphus happy and the idea of a philosophical suicide to be only one form of recognizing absurdism. I respect that viewpoint, but I think one can laugh at the nature of things and choose suicide, an act that is truly the most absurd thing a living creature can do in relation to their natural inclinations.

Yes, I definitely feel this. I don't think you have to be in utter despair to be able to reason that in some circumstances, suicide is going to look like the best option.

Why would a 'normal' person even be able to look at someone bedbound and in chronic pain who is begging to die and think that looks like a reasonable way to live?!! That's messed up.

My feelings go beyond that in that adults of sound mind should have the right to choose whether their lives feel worth living or not. I believe our lives belong to us.

But yes, even when I've been happier, suicide has always seemed like a valid and likely option I could take one day.

Agreed, I consider the right to die and the right to life to be the most basic human rights, though they are so often violated.

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

In the context of living in today's society, I could see suicide as being a form of response to the absurdity of living or at the least, existence—the other response being, of course, embracing life despite the lack of meaning or purpose to it all. Camus suggested that the proper response to the absurd is to live in defiance of it, creating meaning through what you can call a "personal rebellion".

What he failed to take into account was that this solution is incomplete—inconsiderate even, for individuals who experience profound suffering and despair. The idea of rebellion does not provide a tangible or practical rational/philosophical framework for coping with severe distress. I personally see his insistence on living as imposing—which may be unintentional—an additional arbitrary value on existence which is not accounted for in his writing.

Nevertheless, recognition or perception of a meaningless existence leads to immediate existential despair—that is, the alienation and disconnection of humans from any source of value or purpose. This state of mind reinforces the rationality of choosing suicide as an escape from any degree of suffering, physical or existential. Most people who suffer suicidal ideation—as well as those who have commited suicide—could have viewed suicide in this manner, a logical retreat against an illogical suffering.

That's a hell of a way to start as a new user, fantastic contribution :)

I completely agree. When I was first introduced to Camus, I found some solace in his ideas, and it even enabled me to be less miserable in my day-to-day life for a while, but this was because I was not ready for suicide at the time. And if suicide is not an option, then living in defiance of the absurd is probably one of the better ways to go about life. But his ideas started to break down for me when suicide did become a viable possibility, and then the question became, well, why should I have to endure further life, even in the form of rebellion? Why not just skip to the end, which I'm already headed for anyway, and avoid all that suffering, regardless of whether I experience it as absurd or not?