Discussion Suicide as a backlash against society. Poll

[Forever Sleep]

I suppose this is related to whether you see your main stressors as being external or internal. Some people see nothing much wrong with the world. More that their poor health limits their ability to interact with it. Others are vehemently opposed to things like wage slavery, capitalism, consumerism and the expectations placed upon them. I was curious to see how the forum is split in poll form.

Also curious as to whether you think your suicide (if you choose to go ahead with it) would be interpreted as a backlash against society? Would you want it to be seen as that? A kind of protest against complying? Does anyone intend to suggest as much in notes etc? I still hope to quote the late, great David Bowie: 'Life wasn't worth the balance.'

I'm of lots of minds really. I don't enjoy being part of this system and expected to comply. I suppose in a way, my main motivator for wanting to CTB now is that I don't want to comply any longer. I'm simply sick of paying my way in life and I certainly won't have enough money for a reasonable retirement.

Still, I don't really know how else society could function. It's not like I can think of better alternatives! Other than a more fair way of sharing wealth. To ensure all people are paid properly for what they do.

Mine is more on the lines of an antinatilist rant. To my parents, while I do love them: 'Why on earth did you conscript me into this ridiculous 'pay as you go' service?

I suppose I like the idea of my (hopeful) suicide adding to the embarassing numbers for our government. I do imagine a lot of MP's are pretty corrupt and only out to feather their own nests. I don't believe that all of them genuinely care about the constituents they serve. (Some will of course.) I suppose I see suicide rates as the honest truth about just how unhappy citizens truly are. It's in effect, the most extreme way of protesting in a way.

Maybe you could argue that all issues that cause suicide aren't a governments responsibility. But- aren't they? We all pay taxes, or our parents likely did at least. We pay into a system that is supposed to then support us when we need it. Even things like mental illness, dysphoria come under healthcare. Are those systems adequate?

Is it reasonable to blame society for our woes? Or, are we just snowfakes that ought to be taking more responsibility for ourselves? Again though- why is that responsibilty expected of us? Is that reasonable? We didn't sign contracts in the womb to comply to wage slavery or, anything else that is expected of us.

Of course, it kind of has to be expected of us, otherwise society would fall apart! They simply sugarcoat it by telling us that we shouldn't see it as wage slavery. It's a career or, a dream job. If only we manage to claw our way up to that- we'll be happy. But, will we? I'm not and I'm at least able (for now) to do what I dreamed of once.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Jadeith]

I want out, not to take revenge. It would be kinda counterintuitive to hurt myself in order to hurt those who hurt me earlier. Since they already hurt me, they don't give flying intercourse if i hurt myself and how badly, right?
It is my own inadequacies that caused botched relationships with my surroundings and their negative attitude towards me.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I want out to avoid complying to society and to avoid being stuck in such a system. I acknowledge that it's going to be harder for me to leave this world the more I age since I'm either going to be stuck in the system of wage slavery or stuck trying to fit in the system but failing at every single aspect. Neither of those two things satisfy me and I'd rather leave right now when I don't have as many responsibilities as the average adult does. I don't want to ctb as some sort of revenge to society because I acknowledge that my death is miniscule to do anything so it wouldn't be rational to ctb hoping for the world to change. By ending myself, I'm merely making sure that I don't suffer in the system, I wouldn't be able to stop those who are alive and suffering due to the system or due to something else.

 

[Namelesa]

I am not effected by society as much as I can live with my parents without needing to work or do much for them. However it does suck that mental health help is so poor here and I had a traumatic experience with school but honestly those aren't my biggest complaints. It's my family for trapping me and preventing my ctb attempts as much as possible despite it not helping me with getting better and me really wanting to die. Definitely part of my suicide is revenge against my family for limiting my freedom to die as I think they deserve to suffer from my death and I made that clear in my suicide note but mostly my want to die is cus of me and stuff not caused by society and with life itself.

 

[OptingOutSmiling]

No, I don't think I can blame society for this one. I agree that governments should make lives and living conditions better. But life is pretty much random in my opinion and the world in general is a sad place. If we blame our circumstances, I guess we could blame our parents but sometimes they also only did their best and failed. Some humans should just not be allowed to have kids. Politicians should not be allowed to become dictators and start wars. Things just happen even if we try our best. And sometimes we just get sick. Life happens, and who can we blame for life? If like me we don't accept the wrongness of life, I believe we should be allowed to opt out.

 

[SoulWhisperer]

Yeah, social stuff and people is literally 70% of the reason why I feel the way I do. Constant being hurt, not fitting, and being forced to do stuff. No one cares enough to help me and I can't help myself with mundane things, among other stuff is a big reason for my ideation.

 

[ConfusedClouds]

Yea for sure society is a mess. But as @Jadeith said above, doing it to 'protest' would achieve absolutey nothing in the sense you'd want/hope it to. Its more just the ongoing sinking feeling of how shit and unfair life is. And thats coming from a white middle class Brit feeling ground down so fuck knows how others feel.

So not really as a active protest but as a logical reason yes.

 

[idelttoilfsadness21]

I wouldn't be surprised by the votes… it definitely has majority to do with this world than those who hurt us to be here… why else would we be all suffering from a deeper bigger problem? This world is mad!

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

For me, it's a minor motivating factor behind CTBing. My problem is less with capitalism and wage slavery, though -- it certainly bothers me, and I also wish there was a better way, but I was lucky enough to be born with the genetics for the conscientiousness and diligence required to be able to function well in such a system. So if I had a will to live, I would be able to finagle out a relatively satisfactory and successful life within that system.

The "system" that I'm lashing out against is rather the sexual/romantic realm, namely the fact that there's a gulf between male and female sexuality that will never be closed because it is biologically ordained. Rather than resigning myself to participating in this system and accepting the suffering it entails, I prefer opting out altogether.

 

[identity0]

I voted that it has the majority to do with it. If i zoom out and look at the big picture of my life, I see that I have been profoundly shaped by society. Like Terence McKenna said, "culture is your operating system". It is difficult to see any decision we make as not largely a consequence of how society has treated us. Choosing to leave, by acting in conflict with society's prison-like pro-life culture, is a rejection of the society, caused by how society has shaped me.

I have been trying to make art that expresses how I feel but I find it impossible. It seems that suicide is the only way I can express how deeply I suffer and the depth at which I want to reject this society and this reality.

I don't want to harm people and don't expect that my suicide would contribute to improving anything, though.

 

[Bruce]

I'm simply sick of paying my way in life

Likewise.

Still, I don't really know how else society could function. It's not like I can think of better alternatives! Other than a more fair way of sharing wealth. To ensure all people are paid properly for what they do.

Oh, this is easy! An option would be to remove the leechers (which are almost (if not) all government employees) and then switch to living in tribes. A good example would be the American Indians which the system exterminated for having a balanced and sustainable way of life. Can't have that in "polite" society, can we?

Fun fact: Did you know that the Indians would hunt less buffalos if the heards would thin? Remind me! What is the honest view of present day humans on consumption? : )

To my parents, while I do love them: 'Why on earth did you conscript me into this ridiculous 'pay as you go' service?

Well said! Very well said! I did not think of that line. : )

I suppose I like the idea of my (hopeful) suicide adding to the embarassing numbers for our government.

Now see here, I was thinking about the backlash but.. no one would give a fuck! Sure, some would pretend but the only people who might cry when you pass will be people around here. My advice, don't keep hate in! Move forward as you can and when (and if) you do it, do it for yourself. You're important!

Yeah, social stuff and people is literally 70% of the reason why I feel the way I do. Constant being hurt, not fitting, and being forced to do stuff. No one cares enough to help me and I can't help myself with mundane things, among other stuff is a big reason for my ideation.

No one cares at all, they just fake it. I'm sorry for your pain @SoulWhisperer! : (

Choosing to leave, by acting in conflict with society's prison-like pro-life culture, is a rejection of the society, caused by how society has shaped me.

Too right mate! I think this is one of the best descriptions of why we're walking this road! I'm going to appropriate this quote! Thank you very much!

 

[LaVieEnRose]

No the opposite: an inability to fit into society.

 

[derpyderpins]

I certainly understand the idea: "you can't fire me, I quit!" In that way, I guess refusing to go along with the normal cycle, the expected routine, as a voluntary part of the machine is in a sense a backlash against society.

But that's no reason to ctb when you consider how small we are. The machine will keep on pumping. The people around you will NOT hear your message and set out to change things, they will make it about themselves and blame something stupid.

 

[Chr0nicAnhedonic]

I'm not so delusional as to think my death will be some grand revolutionary act that changes the world. There have been countless suicides even in recent history that I'm sure occurred for similar reasons. At best, I will be just another statistic.

At the same time though...a lot of my suicidality comes from being born and forced to live in a world that is not made for me to live in. Because two people had sex one time, I now have to endure a life of wage slavery as the world crumbles around me. For what? The world wants people like me gone anyway. I'm doing them a favor.

Sometimes I don't know which I hate more between myself and the world.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

I have no problems with the world as it is. Survival of the fittest, social darwinism, inequality all this is the motor of evolution and without this kind of evolution we would not exist, and enjoyed my life. I am going to kill myself because I don´t want to experience the decay of old age. But I accept becoming old and dying because we would not exist if we would not age and die.
The other reason for my suicide, my extreme masochism is a grace in this context, it makes even suicide and pain enjoyable.

 

[Bruce]

I have no problems with the world as it is. Survival of the fittest, social darwinism, inequality all this is the motor of evolution and without this kind of evolution we would not exist, and enjoyed my life. I am going to kill myself because I don´t want to experience the decay of old age. But I accept becoming old and dying because we would not exist if we would not age and die.
The other reason for my suicide, my extreme masochism is a grace in this context, it makes even suicide and pain enjoyable.

You are wrong! There is no need for such hatred and violence in the world! We could lead lives based on compassion, logic and understanding. I have experienced this.

There is no need for evolution! At least not how you see it. I see it different, I see it as understanding. What is happening now is not evolution but devolution. Every day, people become more stupid, more selfish and more violent.

Bottom line: we would exist and in a much better state without what you call evolution.

 

[Forever Sleep]

You are wrong! There is no need for such hatred and violence in the world! We could lead lives based on compassion, logic and understanding. I have experienced this.

There is no need for evolution! At least not how you see it. I see it different, I see it as understanding. What is happening now is not evolution but devolution. Every day, people become more stupid, more selfish and more violent.

Bottom line: we would exist and in a much better state without what you call evolution.

It's an interesting and very human conundrum I feel. We want to show compassion as a species. We feel like that's the right thing to do. However, does it produce the best results?

So, as an example- let's say a person with a severe heredity illness desperately wants children. Do we stop them? No- that would feel like infringing their rights. The most we may do is warn them. In the animal kingdom though- how likely would it be they would find a mate? Maybe they would still. However, in the human world, we're taught it's wrong to discriminate. Maybe it will still be enough to deter someone wanting to procreate with them but, maybe it won't. Very possibly, it shouldn't though- we're told. They may have other amazing attributes. They may have the optimistic genes and sunny outlook to ensure their children are happy too.

Insisting that only some people are allowed to reproduce sounds like eugenics to us- which seems repellent but then- isn't natural selection nature's version of eugenics?

Anyhow, let's say they do have children and their child inherits the same debilitating illness. So- they can't function in this world without medical assistance. In the wild, that animal may well be abandoned by its parent or, become much more vulnerable to being killed by predators. Chances are, it will get killed before it reproduces. We won't accept that in the human world though. We'll do everything we can as a society to support that child. But- it possibly won't live a full life and possibly won't be able to contribute to society.

If this keeps happening numerous times, what does that do to the prosperity of the race? The financial security of the race? Vast numbers of the population too ill to work? What does it mean for the child also? Are they truly going to be grateful to have inherited a debilitating illness? Just because their parents really wanted children and society claimed their child would live a reasonable life?

I just think we're in an impossible situation as humans really. We don't want to be cruel. We want people to have rights but, what happens as a result? Are we actually getting any happier as a race? It seems like the opposite to me. Just about everyone seems to be diagnosing themself with a mental illness of some sort. Has that always been there or, are we just becoming more and more unwell as a race? Why is that? Simply our lifestyles and upbringings or, is it also to do with genes, heredity conditions?

Of course, I'm not advocating for anything here. Truth be told, I'm antinatilist. I'd prefer it if we all voluntarily stopped reproducing! In part because, I can't see any good solutions to our biggest problems.

 

[Bruce]

@Forever Sleep You make an excellent point, if only deeply flawed. Please hear me out!

First! Two things:
One - I said lead lives based on compassion and logic and understanding, not only compassion. There is not much logic and understanding in that situation.
Two - That is not compassion! Allowing certain people to procreate is not compassion.

Now, you think that people should be allowed to do things, they should be free to do things. Wrong! People should be allowed to do things but only based on their level of intelligence, their level of understanding and their level of compassion. These attributes should be periodically analyzed, starting from a young age and different levels of choice should be allowed. I came up with this. Ada Palmer also came up with this in the Terra Ignota science fiction series. (This woman is outrageously wise.) Actually the society came up with this, it's only that they apply it only sometimes. Example: How does adopting work? They use logic and understanding. People are evaluated on certain factors and then they are allowed or not to adopt a child. The same should be done for when people want to procreate.

You don't allow any idiot or high-risk individual to have children! That is not compassion for any party. Compassion is when you care. Who do you care about here? Why!?

I'm not a pro or anti-natalist. I try not to be a pro or anti-anything, good and wrong are always changing. You always need to analyze and reanalyze situations.

Your point of view is influenced by indoctrination. It's normal, I suffer from it too. They have been potty training us since before we were born. Try to exit and see the picture from different point of view using different data!

Please don't hate me! I have nothing against you. I'm not trying to attack you, I'm simply trying to make a point and by having a discussion, debate this point and see if I'm wrong. Actually I thank you for providing this point of view! You made my brain think.

Anyway, if you understood my point and if you agree with it then I guess you can stop feeling the conundrum now. ; )

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

It's an interesting and very human conundrum I feel. We want to show compassion as a species. We feel like that's the right thing to do. However, does it produce the best results?

So, as an example- let's say a person with a severe heredity illness desperately wants children. Do we stop them? No- that would feel like infringing their rights. The most we may do is warn them. In the animal kingdom though- how likely would it be they would find a mate? Maybe they would still. However, in the human world, we're taught it's wrong to discriminate. Maybe it will still be enough to deter someone wanting to procreate with them but, maybe it won't. Very possibly, it shouldn't though- we're told. They may have other amazing attributes. They may have the optimistic genes and sunny outlook to ensure their children are happy too.

Insisting that only some people are allowed to reproduce sounds like eugenics to us- which seems repellent but then- isn't natural selection nature's version of eugenics?

Anyhow, let's say they do have children and their child inherits the same debilitating illness. So- they can't function in this world without medical assistance. In the wild, that animal may well be abandoned by its parent or, become much more vulnerable to being killed by predators. Chances are, it will get killed before it reproduces. We won't accept that in the human world though. We'll do everything we can as a society to support that child. But- it possibly won't live a full life and possibly won't be able to contribute to society.

If this keeps happening numerous times, what does that do to the prosperity of the race? The financial security of the race? Vast numbers of the population too ill to work? What does it mean for the child also? Are they truly going to be grateful to have inherited a debilitating illness? Just because their parents really wanted children and society claimed their child would live a reasonable life?

I just think we're in an impossible situation as humans really. We don't want to be cruel. We want people to have rights but, what happens as a result? Are we actually getting any happier as a race? It seems like the opposite to me. Just about everyone seems to be diagnosing themself with a mental illness of some sort. Has that always been there or, are we just becoming more and more unwell as a race? Why is that? Simply our lifestyles and upbringings or, is it also to do with genes, heredity conditions?

Of course, I'm not advocating for anything here. Truth be told, I'm antinatilist. I'd prefer it if we all voluntarily stopped reproducing! In part because, I can't see any good solutions to our biggest problems.

We are not becoming more and more unwell as a race! We are in a negative feedback loop and the controller will be brutal.

You are wrong! There is no need for such hatred and violence in the world! We could lead lives based on compassion, logic and understanding. I have experienced this.

There is no need for evolution! At least not how you see it. I see it different, I see it as understanding. What is happening now is not evolution but devolution. Every day, people become more stupid, more selfish and more violent.

Bottom line: we would exist and in a much better state without what you call evolution.

I don´t know through which glasses you see the world. Never before so few people with regard to the world population died by violence, wars, murder, hunger and diseases. Word population and life expance are as high as never before, more and more work is done by machines, democracy is gaining ground worldwide. Never before we were so close to paradise, it is really boring.

 

[Forever Sleep]

@Forever Sleep You make an excellent point, if only deeply flawed. Please hear me out!

First! Two things:
One - I said lead lives based on compassion and logic and understanding, not only compassion. There is not much logic and understanding in that situation.
Two - That is not compassion! Allowing certain people to procreate is not compassion.

Now, you think that people should be allowed to do things, they should be free to do things. Wrong! People should be allowed to do things but only based on their level of intelligence, their level of understanding and their level of compassion. These attributes should be periodically analyzed, starting from a young age and different levels of choice should be allowed. I came up with this. Ada Palmer also came up with this in the Terra Ignota science fiction series. (This woman is outrageously wise.) Actually the society came up with this, it's only that they apply it only sometimes. Example: How does adopting work? They use logic and understanding. People are evaluated on certain factors and then they are allowed or not to adopt a child. The same should be done for when people want to procreate.

You don't allow any idiot or high-risk individual to have children! That is not compassion for any party. Compassion is when you care. Who do you care about here? Why!?

I'm not a pro or anti-natalist. I try not to be a pro or anti-anything, good and wrong are always changing. You always need to analyze and reanalyze situations.

Your point of view is influenced by indoctrination. It's normal, I suffer from it too. They have been potty training us since before we were born. Try to exit and see the picture from different point of view using different data!

Please don't hate me! I have nothing against you. I'm not trying to attack you, I'm simply trying to make a point and by having a discussion, debate this point and see if I'm wrong. Actually I thank you for providing this point of view! You made my brain think.

Anyway, if you understood my point and if you agree with it then I guess you can stop feeling the conundrum now. ; )

I don't hate you at all. I don't hate people just for disagreeing with me. This forum deals with very controversial issues. There are bound to be differences of opinion, heated discussions even.

You make very fair points. That people are assessed for their suitability to adopt. Even pet ownership can require a license. It is weird from that perspective that we don't apply the same rules to natural procreation.

I guess that's the stumbling block though. People will jump up and down and say that isn't natural and they won't be restricted in that way.

Like- in principle, it seems like a good idea but, how do you enforce it? Steralize unsuitable people? What if the good go bad. Should the resulting baby be killed? It's hard to imagine our society and people as they are now, agreeing to such restrictions.

Plus, who gets to decide which attributes are desirable? Whoever they are, they have an awful lot of power. Imagine say a CEO getting a say. They'll want people who are susceptible to temptation- advertising, influence. How else are they going to sell the things they manufacture or, services they provide? Who in this world is honest and wise enough do you think to decide on which attributes survive and are rewarded and, which die out?

Why do you imagine that the systems that govern people in this new world will be any fairer or more incorruptible than they are now? If people have restrictions placed on their behaviour according to their intelligence- can they bypass this? Pay bribes to the right people to manipulate their score? Will people say in a family business no longer try to help out their children if there are objectively better candidates? Why would the people controlling these systems be any less corrupt than the ones who pull our strings now? Surely, they'll sneak things in to benefit themselves?

It's like- I can appreciate sci-fi utopian futures but I always struggle going from the race we are at the moment, to there. It's an interesting idea though. I still prefer the idea of the human race going extinct personally but, I'm such a pessimist!

We are not becoming more and more unwell as a race! We are in a negative feedback loop and the controller will be brutal.

I don´t know through which glasses you see the world. Never before so few people with regard to the world population died by violence, wars, murder, hunger and diseases. Word population and life expance are as high as never before, more and more work is done by machines, democracy is gaining ground worldwide. Never before we were so close to paradise, it is really boring.

What controller?

If life is so great though, why does anyone still want to kill themselves?

 

[Secrets1]

If this is out of bounds please remove. I've been a staunch advocate for peace for virtually all of my suicidally driven life of 4 decades until the past few months. Society is devolving at an incredible rate. Narcissists exploiting others using violence is an effective strategy to get ahead in current day society. Instigating lower quality of life, conflict, mental illness, suicide. At what point do the ethics change from self exclusion from life being the most positive option compared to revenge against abusers who continue to abuse others for their own gain?

A good friend told me "if I were to ctb I'd go after people who hurt me 1st and cause as much pain as possible". I wasn't onboard with that perspective but there are circumstances where I could see it being justified in my own life. Then that guy Luigi had the stones to take out a dirty CEO and I'm a total fan of it. Society's downfall has me reconsidering CTB vs activism when at the point of ceasing to care about my own existence. I don't have a hard stance other than I do believe a line exists where violence is justified to prevent persecution. The civil war in the US is a good example. Putting people in jail for life or legally executing them is a state sponsored example considered acceptable. It's an interesting topic to ponder that's more relevant in the US and seemingly many other parts of the world than any other time in my life.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

What controller?

If life is so great though, why does anyone still want to kill themselves?

Evolution is the controller.

I forgot to mention, the suicide rate is worldwide going down too, what surprises me. In former times people were killed violently by various reasons before they found the time to kill themselfes. From this point of view, the suicide rate shoud increase like the cancer rate. In former times people died before they became old enaugh to get cancer.

 

[grid zer0]

It's largely to do with me, but I do entertain, and maybe even relish the fact that when it happens, my parents, who spent years trying to carve me into something I'm not, will be left with a tinge of sadness in them

 

[Bruce]

I don't hate you at all. I don't hate people just for disagreeing with me. This forum deals with very controversial issues. There are bound to be differences of opinion, heated discussions even.

You make very fair points. That people are assessed for their suitability to adopt. Even pet ownership can require a license. It is weird from that perspective that we don't apply the same rules to natural procreation.

I guess that's the stumbling block though. People will jump up and down and say that isn't natural and they won't be restricted in that way.

Like- in principle, it seems like a good idea but, how do you enforce it? Steralize unsuitable people? What if the good go bad. Should the resulting baby be killed? It's hard to imagine our society and people as they are now, agreeing to such restrictions.

Plus, who gets to decide which attributes are desirable? Whoever they are, they have an awful lot of power. Imagine say a CEO getting a say. They'll want people who are susceptible to temptation- advertising, influence. How else are they going to sell the things they manufacture or, services they provide? Who in this world is honest and wise enough do you think to decide on which attributes survive and are rewarded and, which die out?

Why do you imagine that the systems that govern people in this new world will be any fairer or more incorruptible than they are now? If people have restrictions placed on their behaviour according to their intelligence- can they bypass this? Pay bribes to the right people to manipulate their score? Will people say in a family business no longer try to help out their children if there are objectively better candidates? Why would the people controlling these systems be any less corrupt than the ones who pull our strings now? Surely, they'll sneak things in to benefit themselves?

It's like- I can appreciate sci-fi utopian futures but I always struggle going from the race we are at the moment, to there. It's an interesting idea though. I still prefer the idea of the human race going extinct personally but, I'm such a pessimist!

Thank you for being nice! I'm not used to it. : )

I knew from a very early age that there is something very wrong with this society so I decided to grow up alone, I kind of isolated myself from most people. This allowed me to form my own thoughts and ideas which many consider extremely controversial. To me they seem natural.

It's easy to enforce, you make it a law with the usual assorted set of punishments. If certain individuals have been deemed unworthy of having children then as per the law they should not have any. Various ways of not letting women get pregnant exist: men can use condoms or do vasectomy while women can use contraceptives. It's their choice how they want to go about it. If one brakes the law then they could be fined, forced vasectomy could be done on men and the child will be taken away and given for adoption. This is already happening to a certain degree. That's why we have child protection services.

All this is known and the system is purposefully not doing anything about it. There are various reasons why they do that but I already feel like I'm hijacking the discussion so I won't go there.

If the good go bad then the child will be taken from said individual and be given to the other parent or to the closest relative. Again this is already happening.

I don't give a rat's ass about what the idiots are willing to accept or not! Would you allow anyone to drive a car if they wouldn't accept the idea of driving tests and driving licences?

We already know which attributes are desirable and which are not. We already have psychological tests performed on certain individuals. Actually you do these for a driving licence.

Certain independent, separate committees would decide who is allowed to do one thing or another.

@Forever Sleep you have to understand something, I'm not talking only about allowing people to have children or not here, I'm talking about the organisation of the whole society. So many things are allowed or not based on certain tests. You don't get to do anything, anytime just because you want to. You train, you are evaluated and then you get the job or not. Speaking of which, I've just realized that there is no training for raising a child! Like this is such an easy job and anyone can do it. Bloody hell!!

Anyway, these committees would only decide on allowing people to have children or not, other committees would decide on other things. You don't give too much power to any one group or individual and you keep these committees separated, like terrorist cells, so they won't know about each other. Also, the members of these committees would be tested too in advance.

The systems would be more fair and they would be less corruptible if the above procedures would be followed.

I have ideas about how this whole system could work but I'm going to stop here before I bore everyone to death.

Oh as things stand, I agree with you, the human race should go extinct.

I love certain books, certain stories, I can submerge myself in something beautiful and I can learn from it. I also love it when I see that great authors have the same ideas as me, independent of me.

I don´t know through which glasses you see the world. Never before so few people with regard to the world population died by violence, wars, murder, hunger and diseases. Word population and life expance are as high as never before, more and more work is done by machines, democracy is gaining ground worldwide. Never before we were so close to paradise, it is really boring.

My glasses are clear but you could not see through them even if I'd loan them to you.

Fewer bodies die, but the minds ..

We have life expectancy? We have lives?

Democracy.. Ha, ha ha! You might be confusing regimes here.

Paradise? Do you even know what that is?

You're a very confused little fellow. But then again, that is your decision.

 

[Hojag]

Lately, most of my attemps are fruit of an external cause, usually society. The lack of empathy, all the uneeded rudeness and sarcasm, hypocrisy and evil everywhere, and expectations I can't fulfill are the reasons why I want to vanish so hard.

I said equal, though, because I know I was born with something that will always lure me towards death. It's not from now that I feel tired and unhappy, it's been years and years. I can't avoid this pressure from inside of me, so I can't fully blame society for this - but it has a heavy influence over my deadly thoughts.

It makes me wanna give up.

 

[L'absent]

I find your question about suicide as a reaction to society, and the possibility of seeing it as a form of protest, very interesting. However, for me, society is not a determining factor in my reflection on suicide. My position is more related to an evaluation of existence itself and its intrinsic characteristics, rather than a judgment on society, capitalism, or its structures.
I don't believe that a different society or an alternative system would change my perspective. For me, the problem lies within biological existence itself: our being conscious beings aware of our mortality, vulnerable to physical and emotional pain, and subject to potential suffering that is often unpredictable and unimaginable. Existence as such is unsustainable to me, not the context in which it occurs.
Suicide, from this perspective, is not an act of protest nor a response to society, but a rational and considered choice based on a cost-benefit analysis. It's a way to free oneself from an existence that I perceive as intrinsically meaningless, filled with pain, and destined for an inevitable end—often unpredictable and cruel. In a sense, I see suicide as a way to reclaim control over this inevitable end, facing it calmly and rationally.
There's no anger or impulsivity in my view, just a desire to escape the horror of the human condition. If I were ever to choose this path, I wouldn't want it to be interpreted as a political message or a critique of society. It would simply be a personal decision, made calmly and with planning, with the goal of avoiding further suffering.
I understand that, for some, suicide may be a symbolic act, a protest against a system perceived as oppressive or unjust. In history, examples like Jan Palach (who immolated himself in protest against the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia) or Buddhist monks during the Vietnam War demonstrate that suicide can have a powerful political meaning. But for me, it's not like that. I'm not interested in sending a message to the world, nor do I think my absence would change anything. It's purely a personal matter, tied to my perception of existence as unsustainable.

 

[nembutaldream]

Yes, from a very young age I have always viewed suicide as a way to protest situations in which you are essentially enslaved and/or mercilessly abused by others and have no other option to fight back - e.g. they are too powerful for you to kill or harm them, so the best you can do is remove yourself so they stop benefiting from your existence. This actually is very logical and valid. Even psychologists have described suicide as sometimes being a Fight response.

 

[JesiBel]

Partly yes, we are part of a system that exploits and condemns us for being "different." We are easily replaceable objects, there is no humanity left. We are pushed to our limits and if we cannot cope we are discarded and called weak or useless. Society rejects those who do not meet the "standards" required to be part of it.

Sometimes no matter how hard we try, we are never accepted, we are like living ghosts...

 

[martinso67]

Yes, from a very young age I have always viewed suicide as a way to protest situations in which you are essentially enslaved and/or mercilessly abused by others and have no other option to fight back - e.g. they are too powerful for you to kill or harm them, so the best you can do is remove yourself so they stop benefiting from your existence. This actually is very logical and valid. Even psychologists have described suicide as sometimes being a Fight response.

A somewhat famous professor in psychology and expert on Narcissism said that Suicide is also a way of expression of thought and protest against the current society.
There was one Tunisian guy who did suicide by lighting himself on fire to protest his economical struggles and under-employment.
He did cause to stir up the Tunisian revolution and with that the Arab spring. A revolution in many Arabic countries that did result in the end of many political regimes. Lately this last december 2024 with Syria's Assad.

 

[anagram]

Suicide as a demonstration for a cause relatable to everyone can be powerful. Suicide done out of personal struggle unseen by others means you'll likely just end up as a statistic and the effect won't be as widespread. Suicide is actually contagious. Seeing or knowing one person who did it likely inspires others to go through with it.

Suicide is the epitome of the phrase "actions speak louder than words"