Discussion Suicide & abortion

[Lra888]

Strange how the majority of the population in many parts of the world simultaneously abhor suicide & view abortion as a personal freedom.

Society tries to keep suicidal adults alive at any cost to the point of drugging them, force feeding them as they're locked in hospitals & calling them selfish cowards for choosing death as an escape from unendurable mental illness, chronic pain, sickness etc.

On the othe other hand, ending the life of a potential child is thought of as freeing and even empowering. Its life seen as something which can be terminated because it will be a burden or inconvenience to the parents.

 

[Maravillosa]

I am pro-life when it comes to abortion, war and the death penalty, because the unborn, combatants (and civilians in war zones), and those convicted of capital crimes do not, as a rule, consciously want to die. (Certainly the unborn are incapable of deciding whether or not they want to live or die.) However, those who want to kill themselves consciously want to die (or at least consider death preferable to continuing to live). I tend to view suicide as a personal freedom and abhor abortion. Most people would probably find my reasoning odd, but I think there is a certain consistency in it.

 

[Shay]

I should say pro choice is pro choice.

 

[CJM]

Someone has been raped and is pregnant, sure honey we understand the need for you to terminate.

Someone has been raped and is feeling suicidal
call the cops, send in the SWAT team, lock em up!

 

[Smilla]

I am antinatalist—it's the only philosophy that makes sense to me.

Pro-abortion, anti-life (for nonexistent beings), and pro-suicide.

I had an abortion in my late teens and have never once regretted it.

There's an enormous difference between a sentient being and a fetus.

 

[RottingFlowerBrains]

I am antinatalist—it's the only philosophy that makes sense to me.

Pro-abortion, anti-life (for nonexistent beings), and pro-suicide.

I had an abortion in my late teens and have never once regretted it.

I am a antinatalist to. I was always searching for the answers on life through many different theory and religion.. until i read up on Antinatalist and I feel like it makes the most sense to me aswel.

 

[Final Escape]

The true reason abortion is legal mainly in white majority countries is to kill off people with Christian values, above average iq's also, which conflict with the values of state power. Also it tends to break down relations between the genders which gives more power to government. If women can have consequence free sex this alters how the sexes behave. Birth control fails a lot so if abortion was not legal, there would be even more single mothers or early marriage would be a thing again because that was the main point. There wasn't always a welfare state to bail u out if u get knocked up without a guy to support u.

On the issue of keeping suicidal people alive. It's because as long as you are kept alive the state is benefiting from you. It's much more costly to raise a human being from birth to being a tax producing citizen. So they try to keep the livestock alive mainly for this reason. I'm guessing it's because as adults we are more valuable especially if you're are fairly young and the system can expect to profit off u in the future.

 

[Time2Go?]

I don't know about other countries, but in the States more abortions are received by minorities than whites. Also, Christians generally disagree with abortion, therefore would not have one.

I do think this is really an interesting thought though. The poster is so correct.

My husband has called the Suicide Hotline several several times and twice he was put on hold...

Mattie

 

[RottingFlowerBrains]

I don't know about other countries, but in the States more abortions are received by minorities than whites. Also, Christians generally disagree with abortion, therefore would not have one.

I do think this is really an interesting thought though. The poster is so correct.

My husband has called the Suicide Hotline several several times and twice he was put on hold...

Mattie

Put on hold.. shocking

 

[Morning Angel]

I'm fairly certain that there is a lot of stigma against abortion as well, but I see what you're getting at. Here in America, the same cadre of religious people use indoctrination to affect how suicide and abortion are seen, the core message being that people "shouldn't play God." There's some overlap with conservatives who favor the death penalty and right to bear arms, which is a little puzzling.

 

[Morning Angel]

The true reason abortion is legal mainly in white majority countries is to kill off people with Christian values.

You're implying several things which I have to respectfully disagree with. Abortion rights and policies came about as a result of the women's movement, not a conspiracy to threaten the Christian community or traditional "family values."

Birth control fails a lot so if abortion was not legal, there would be even more single mothers or early marriage would be a thing again because that was the main point. There wasn't always a welfare state to bail u out if u get knocked up without a guy to support

I feel a strong implication here that women get pregnant because they know they'll access resources from the state freely if they have a child. I hear this same type of rhetoric used around other minorities accessing SSI, general relief, and other support systems. There is no research to support the claim that women have children in order to increase their financial situation. Poor women who are on welfare cannot actually access welfare for their children; also, food stamps barely cover costs of food, even low quality food, in most states. Please see link.

https://blogs.elon.edu/voicesofwelf...children-increased-benefits-isnt-one-of-them/

I'd also argue that the presence of abortion programs minimize the use of welfare programs for each person in the long term. If there is no mouth to feed in the first place, there are less government subsidies used.

Welfare programs in the U.S. have been systematically and drastically reduced by policies since the 1980's, and with increasing privatization/removal of programs like Medicare and social security, there is hardly a welfare system left. Even recently the house and senate have voted to essentially remove Medicaid, endangering people in society who are the most vulnerable. You wouldn't imply that people with disabilities got sick because they wanted welfare, too, now would you?

Remember, rhetoric that is devoid of fact-based reality is merely propaganda.

 

[Smilla]

You're implying several things which I have to respectfully disagree with. Abortion rights and policies came about as a result of the women's movement, not a conspiracy to threaten the Christian community. This sounds like right wing propaganda.




Welfare programs in the U.S. have been systematically and drastically reduced by policies since the 1980's, and with increasing privatization of program like Medicare and social security, there is hardly a welfare system left. Even recently the house and senate have voted to essentially remove Medicaid.

I feel a strong implication here that women get pregnant because they know they'll access resources from the state freely if they have a child. I hear this same type of rhetoric used around other minorities accessing SSI, general relief, and other support systems. There is no research to support the claim that women have children in order to increase their financial situation or solely to access benefits. Poor women who are on welfare cannot actually access welfare for their children; also, food stamps barely cover costs of food, even low quality food, in most states. Please see link.

https://blogs.elon.edu/voicesofwelf...children-increased-benefits-isnt-one-of-them/

I'd also argue that the presence of abortion programs minimizes the use of welfare programs for each person in the long term. If there is no mouth to feed in the first place, there is less subsidies used.

FinalEscape is our de facto right wing propagandist on SS. Everything she posts has a political agenda, a hue of right wing absurdity. Surprised she hasn't gotten banned for her often racist rants.

 

[Morning Angel]

FinalEscape is our de facto right wing propagandist on SS. Everything she posts has a political agenda, a hue of right wing absurdity. Surprised she hasn't gotten banned for her often racist rants.

I removed my comment about it being right wing propaganda because I don't think it's fair of me to assume her alignment. Either way, I'm okay with political discussion if it's respectful and people know when to walk away. Maybe that is asking too much…

 

[Chinaski]

The true reason abortion is legal mainly in white majority countries is to kill off people with Christian values, above average iq's also, which conflict with the values of state power. Also it tends to break down relations between the genders which gives more power to government. If women can have consequence free sex this alters how the sexes behave. Birth control fails a lot so if abortion was not legal, there would be even more single mothers or early marriage would be a thing again because that was the main point. There wasn't always a welfare state to bail u out if u get knocked up without a guy to support u.

On the issue of keeping suicidal people alive. It's because as long as you are kept alive the state is benefiting from you. It's much more costly to raise a human being from birth to being a tax producing citizen. So they try to keep the livestock alive mainly for this reason. I'm guessing it's because as adults we are more valuable especially if you're are fairly young and the system can expect to profit off u in the future.

Absolutely aghast that this shitshow of a post garnered 'likes', jfc

 

[Taylored]

The true reason abortion is legal mainly in white majority countries is to kill off people with Christian values, above average iq's also, which conflict with the values of state power. Also it tends to break down relations between the genders which gives more power to government. If women can have consequence free sex this alters how the sexes behave. Birth control fails a lot so if abortion was not legal, there would be even more single mothers or early marriage would be a thing again because that was the main point. There wasn't always a welfare state to bail u out if u get knocked up without a guy to support u.

On the issue of keeping suicidal people alive. It's because as long as you are kept alive the state is benefiting from you. It's much more costly to raise a human being from birth to being a tax producing citizen. So they try to keep the livestock alive mainly for this reason. I'm guessing it's because as adults we are more valuable especially if you're are fairly young and the system can expect to profit off u in the future.

Mostly correct state does benefit from keeping the suicidal alive

 

[Morning Angel]

Absolutely aghast that this shitshow of a post garnered 'likes', jfc

It's gotten a lot of likes. That's ok, but it's awkward to know where certain users stand on this issue. Really awkward. Then again, I don't know if people are liking the part about abortion being an anti-right conspiracy or the suicide part.

 

[CJM]

The Democrats seem more right leaning in regards to other "left" parties around the world.

 

[Morning Angel]

Yeah. This thread is gonna devolve. I'm out.

 

[Schopenhauer]

I'm pro-choice on both cases.

As for antinatalism, I'm not sure. Most people seem to actually like to be alive. People like me (us?) are the exception. Nevertheless, I'd never have children.

 

[Chinaski]

It's gotten a lot of likes. That's ok, but it's awkward to know where certain users stand on this issue. Really awkward. Then again, I don't know if people are liking the part about abortion being an anti-right conspiracy or the suicide part.

Tbh I'm absolutely amazed that anyone can argue against abortion in 2018. Then again, the US still struggles with the concept of universal healthcare that is free at the point of need, so...

 

[Morning Angel]

I'm pro-choice on both cases.

As for antinatalism, I'm not sure. Most people seem to actually like to be alive. People like me (us?) are the exception. Nevertheless, I'd never have children.

Yes. There is no true left here in America. Wish more people understood that.

 

[Trashcan]

Yes, it's ironic. I am pro-choice for both. But there are also many people who are pro-life when it comes to abortion.

But IMO if someone is getting an abortion, they would not be fit to be a parent at that moment. For example if they got raped and wanted an abortion, they probably shouldn't raise the child for both their sake and the child's sake. I don't mean it as an insult.

 

[InAust2]

Strange how the majority of the population in many parts of the world simultaneously abhor suicide & view abortion as a personal freedom.

Society tries to keep suicidal adults alive at any cost to the point of drugging them, force feeding them as they're locked in hospitals & calling them selfish cowards for choosing death as an escape from unendurable mental illness, chronic pain, sickness etc.

On the othe other hand, ending the life of a potential child is thought of as freeing and even empowering. Its life seen as something which can be terminated because it will be a burden or inconvenience to the parents.

Interesting video....
You need to be a certain kind of person to be able to perform an abortion.

Suicide is one's own choice.

I think there's a difference between the two.