Venting Stories like this made me mad

[TAW122]

Here is a thread that I've come across about someone being selfish and asking the wrong questions like most pro-lifers. To be fair, yes, her feelings are valid and that losing someone, especially someone close can be really heartbreaking. I get that and in no way am I diminishing nor saying that she doesn't have any right to feel upset (it is natural and normal to feel upset about the loss of a loved one, especially someone who is close). Now with that said, she is asking the wrong questions and having the wrong mindset about his death. Instead of asking why the husband did what he did (after being a quadriplegic and having his quality of life diminish to nearly nothing, unable to enjoy life like he used to), what she (or anyone else) could have done differently, what she (or anyone else) could have said differently , or blaming herself, she could just come to the conclusion that it is up to the person who is living with condition (quadriplegia) or suffering to decide his/her own fate.

Furthermore, I believe it would be selfish for her to expect him to stay just so she won't be sad or just so she can continue to have someone to exist around her. In fact, I believe it is whole other level of selfishness is to keep someone alive against their will, especially if they are already suffering so much not only subjectively (in his own world and mind), but also objectively (unable to take care of basic needs on one's own and constantly requires around the clock care).

While I am not a motorcyclist nor do I do any extreme sports or much activities with a high degree or chance of physical injury, I do play the piano (not professionally) and take piano playing very seriously. Therefore, if I was in the guy's shoes, I would absolutely want to die than to live in that physical state for the rest of my life. Regardless of whether someone feels that I am (or NOT) a burden to them, it is still not their call to dictate what I do with my life and body.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[TimeToDie]

She asks why which seems an odd question since she provides a list of compelling reasons.

1) He suffered from depression BEFORE being disabled.
2) Lack of family support.
3) He truly was an invalid -- she took care of him 24/7 for the past 3 years.
4) Lack of friends -- because they were a boring couple who can never go out and have fun.

I'd say it's pretty damn amazing that he stuck around for three long years. It's certainly unfortunate that she was hurt by his death, but it's not reasonable to expect somebody to suffer just to satisfy your own desire for a companion. If you have a dog that was slowly & painfully dying would it be reasonable to let it suffer for several months just because you really want a companion for as long as possible?

 

[Maravillosa]

If you have a dog that was slowly & painfully dying would it be reasonable to let it suffer for several months just because you really want a companion for as long as possible?

I suspect that people who think like her would say that the death of people should not be regarded in the same light as the death of dogs. After all, many people believe that people have immortal souls and dogs do not. I do not know whether that bereaved widow is Catholic, but there is also in the Catholic Church the concept of redemptive suffering. That means that if one accepts one's unavoidable suffering and does not strive to reject and/or escape it (e.g., by suicide), one can use that suffering to save people's souls and bring them to Heaven. Although I am a practicing Catholic, I find the concept of redemptive suffering to be a bit alienating.

 

[Darkhaven]

People will never understand.
The only way they could understand would be to make them suffer the same kind of pain so they can at least know what's like to live like that.
Most of them would still reject suicide but at least they would suffer the same and not just bicker about other people's suffering like they have legitimacy to judge other people's decisions.

 

[Meretlein]

He drowned himself, that's a horrible death. He must have really wanted out...

 

[inconsequential]

"Why wasn't I enough?"

Because, believe it or not, one human existing doesn't negate every single issue he had.

 

[SerenitySeeker]

She's grieving and in that state she can't see beyond her pain/suffering to acknowledge his. Maybe she eventually will, but it's not likely that she will be able to conceptualize death as a valid, personal decision/option. Most people can't because as someone said earlier they've never experienced that person's particular pain/struggle.

 

[throwaway_2620]

I agree with you 100%, it's selfish and cruel to expect someone to keep living against their will just so people don't have to mourn (particularly when they're a quadriplegic with zero quality of life who desperately wants to die). Prolifers expect you to keep living at all costs (even if you're a quadriplegic or otherwise have zero quality of life). Not only that, but if paramedics were to find him face down in the lake, they would've tried to resuscitate him at all costs (even if he had a DNR) and he would've been involuntarily committed and held against his will in a psych ward (if he survived). And (although I understand she was mourning the loss of her husband) his wife/carer had the nerve to ask "why" even though the answers were staring her right in the face. One, he was already depressed long before his permanently life altering car accident, two, that life altering car accident would've made him 100 times more depressed than before (for obvious reasons) and three, he required round the clock care because he couldn't even wipe his own ass (what an undignifying life that would be). No wonder why he desperately wanted to die, if i was in his shoes I would absolutely, 100% want to die as well (unless doctors could hypothetically fix the actual cause of my depression, which isn't a "chemical imbalance in the brain that can be treated with medication, therapy, etc", but a few cubic centimetres of cartilage in the cervical vertebrae of the spine which they wouldn't be able to fix because a catastrophic injury like that would be irreversible). I hope that poor guy has found peace and I wish his heartbroken wife peace, understanding and closure.

 

[Daigoro’sDisciple]

Death seems to be such a tabu subject in society. No one may claim to truly understand it. Few people even try to. They fear it and expect other people to share their view of it because of its haunting finality. What I think is strange is how one can get all upset over one person's decision to leave — especially during circumstances such as these. I mean, we're all going to die, it's just a matter of when. Sure, it can be sad to be 'left behind', but one should at least try to ponder about death in general and put themselves in the shoes of the deceased person, and hopefully understand that everything is not directly related to them personally. He probably felt he'd done his part here on earth and saw no dignified future with his condition and all. Sadly, he was also probably reluctant to discuss this matter because of the pro-life-spirit which surrounds society as a whole, and it takes no genius to think of a few consequences born from approaching such a subject in the open.

 

[ProhibereDolor]

All of these responses just serves to reaffirm why I'm here on this site. Great discussion everyone.

 

[blanketyblk]

I agree with what everyone has said before.. but i will add that having your partner CBT'ing without warming makes you question everything. i know after my partner did it, I was quite selfish afterwards trying to work out what i did or what i didn't do to help her and thinking that it was all my fault. never stopping to think maybe she had her own reasons for doing it. That realization didn't come until a bit later on.

Dealing with death is a hard thing for most people to deal with, but dealing with a sudden death is quite traumatic in of it's self. and i can in someways sympathies with what she is going though because your left with your own thoughts on what you did that day that might of lead up to them CBT'ing. The day becomes like a record player, playing on a loop in your mind. and you start pulling apart every second of that day to look for clues to figure out why.. as i said it's traumatic and people deal with traumatic events differently.

 

[Jean Améry]

I don't understand why that post would upset anyone. The woman's clearly grieving and mourning: her reaction is quite understandable and it'd be quite unrealistic to expect her to be rational in that situation. If you were in her position and loved that person deeply: would you not think and feel the same way? At least initially?

We humans are cursed with an ego and hence we are by nature selfish creatures. Ironically we blame each-other for being selfish... Suicide is selfish, expecting someone to stay when they don't want to is selfish. How does one measure 'selfishness' anyway?

Obviously what that guy did was completely rational: he chose a relatively quick although messy end over an existence of continued grave suffering. It's outrageous this sick society isn't willing to help people like that and grant him a good, painless death (clearly this guy was at the extreme end of the scale of suffering and of no use to himself or anyone else). Especially in such extreme cases euthanasia would obviously be the humane and best option.

Blame psychiatry and christianity (the religions of venerating and imposing suffering: the first secular, the latter non-secular) instead of this poor woman who suffered a great loss and obviously has known her share of misery.

 

[TAW122]

@Darkhaven That is a really good point. People don't ever (truly) understand another's situation unless they have experienced it themselves firsthand. This is especially true for serious mental and/or physical illnesses or disabilities.

@throwaway_2620 Yes, I agree with your reasoning (for the most part). Though for the first one, it is rather a speculation of his life pre-injury. Just based on that thread, there is no indication that he was depressed before the injury, but he "may" be. As for the second and third reasons, I believe it is without a doubt that he would be really depressed due to loss of ability to pursue his hobbies (motorcycle) owing it to the severe accident that left him permanently disabled, and of course, losing his own dignity. I can somewhat relate to the loss dignity, not being able to do things on your own and in the way you want it, having to constantly depend on others to do just about everything, including the most basic things (showering, using the restroom, getting dressed, getting around in a wheelchair, eating, etc.)

@Jean Améry Yes I don't think she is mainly at fault for her reaction and her reaction is valid indeed. I believe it is mostly a natural reaction towards her loss (the loss of her husband). In regards to psychiatry and Christianity (especially after the RCC took control over it), yes they are mostly to blame for all the anti-suicide, anti-choice attitudes that the world has even to present day. I believe that because people have been taught by society as well as the two driving forces that suicide is wrong and shameful, they feel pain because they are taught to feel that.