Smilla
Visionary
- Apr 30, 2018
- 2,549
Short clip of wonderful Fry being interviewed and being asked about God.
Short clip of wonderful Fry being interviewed and being asked about God.
Johnnythefox
Que sera sera
- Nov 11, 2018
- 3,129
Smilla
Visionary
- Apr 30, 2018
- 2,549
LOVE that movie! I saw it in the theater when it came out, and have rewatched numerous clips on YouTube.
Fry is a wonderful human and tremendous actor! Loved him in Wilde.
Johnnythefox
Que sera sera
- Nov 11, 2018
- 3,129
Misanthrope
Mage
- Oct 23, 2018
- 557
I am aware this has nothing to do with Stephen Fry on god but he nails Brexit as well.
He is a pleasure to watch in various debates. Always polite, funny, with sharp points to make. I also very much respect his role in bringing the struggles of the mentally ill to wider attention.
He is a pleasure to watch in various debates. Always polite, funny, with sharp points to make. I also very much respect his role in bringing the struggles of the mentally ill to wider attention.
Moth
Resident waste of space
- Sep 17, 2018
- 68
Johnnythefox
Que sera sera
- Nov 11, 2018
- 3,129
Thanks for sharing this @Misanthrope, I was one of the 62% of Scots who voted remain. It amazes me how gullible people are and don't know how to think for themselves.
As you well know the entire country is going down the toilet.
Johnnythefox
Que sera sera
- Nov 11, 2018
- 3,129
This is one of mines that didn't go down to well with the brexiteers on FB, the responses gave me a good laugh though.
And quite a few people liked it.
And quite a few people liked it.
not-2-b-the-answer
Archangel
- Mar 23, 2018
- 9,375
People are just as gullible in the U.S. :(
not-2-b-the-answer
Archangel
- Mar 23, 2018
- 9,375
Made4TV
A hopeless hope junkie
- Sep 17, 2018
- 574
I wish he was god. I adore him.
Misanthrope
Mage
- Oct 23, 2018
- 557
I don't really like gullible as a word, as it implies that the person is to blame, they should be smarter and less stupid. However, why would they be? They are a product of our society that favours keeping people uninformed as a mechanism of control to maintain a lucrative status quo for a small demographic. If they have to use false fear and promise to do it they will. Further backed by the media machine that turns lies into truth using the same techniques as Goebbels employed and is pushing anti science narratives. Not much different to religion really and its bastardized variety of hell and salvation and constantly pushed doctrine with menaces.
The evidence of keeping people uninformed is we have rote learning but not critical thinking in classes. Where the focus is on coaching people through their exams to meet the demands of target culture. So they can chase magical paper, to get the magical secure job for life, only to laughably find they are overqualified and competing with a global market that demands flexibility to the extent you might not even be able to aford to keep your lights on. We have a capitalist society but it is not in standard classes to be taught anything about your consumer rights, or the contractual law it is founded on. Or even touch on economics.
There is also the view that you should vote and you are an embarrassment to democracy if you don't. At the same time though there is little in the way of history taught on the subject and its importance, and even less detailed explanation of how legislation is arrived at in the first place. Probably because people armed with critical thinking would point out how absolutely absurd current political systems are and revolt to change it.
An uninformed divided society is an easily distracted one. If you can't even comprehend the bars of your cage because you are too busy surviving, hating on something else as an easy scapegoat, or painting those bars with an abundance of meaningless colours that delude you into thinking you are making choices. Everything seems less oppressive. Even as your standards of life worsen and you are turned into collateral.
Part of me looks forward to being dead because this depth of absurdity is going to result in a holocaust I would rather not be around to witness. I am glad I don't have children for the same reason. It is made all the more frustrating because we literally have the technology and knowledge at our fingertips to create a better way. Unfortunately, bigotry and greed are a barrier to that.
I too would like Stephen Fry to be a god. I think we would then live in a far more rational Utopian world that would put quality of life considerations above growth in GDP.
The evidence of keeping people uninformed is we have rote learning but not critical thinking in classes. Where the focus is on coaching people through their exams to meet the demands of target culture. So they can chase magical paper, to get the magical secure job for life, only to laughably find they are overqualified and competing with a global market that demands flexibility to the extent you might not even be able to aford to keep your lights on. We have a capitalist society but it is not in standard classes to be taught anything about your consumer rights, or the contractual law it is founded on. Or even touch on economics.
There is also the view that you should vote and you are an embarrassment to democracy if you don't. At the same time though there is little in the way of history taught on the subject and its importance, and even less detailed explanation of how legislation is arrived at in the first place. Probably because people armed with critical thinking would point out how absolutely absurd current political systems are and revolt to change it.
An uninformed divided society is an easily distracted one. If you can't even comprehend the bars of your cage because you are too busy surviving, hating on something else as an easy scapegoat, or painting those bars with an abundance of meaningless colours that delude you into thinking you are making choices. Everything seems less oppressive. Even as your standards of life worsen and you are turned into collateral.
Part of me looks forward to being dead because this depth of absurdity is going to result in a holocaust I would rather not be around to witness. I am glad I don't have children for the same reason. It is made all the more frustrating because we literally have the technology and knowledge at our fingertips to create a better way. Unfortunately, bigotry and greed are a barrier to that.
I too would like Stephen Fry to be a god. I think we would then live in a far more rational Utopian world that would put quality of life considerations above growth in GDP.
gingerplum
Enlightened
- Nov 5, 2018
- 1,450
gingerplum
Enlightened
- Nov 5, 2018
- 1,450
THANK YOU! I don't know him, but I'm really happy to have this introduction. Seems like a less haughty Hitchens, maybe? (not a dig, I still love you, Hitch!).
not-2-b-the-answer
Archangel
- Mar 23, 2018
- 9,375
If I drank … the last two years I would have been black out drunk. Probably a good thing. ;)
Honestly it doesn't matter who is the P.O.T.U.S. … I still want to die.
Trump being the President makes it a little more severe.
Fcancer
Student
- Sep 24, 2018
- 184
What a great answer, pretty much how I try explain it to religious people. But with far less intelligence, and grace as Fry ofcourse.
Zaynaldeen
blackpilled subhuman manlet
- Oct 18, 2018
- 108
I think this clip is super silly and his reasoning is extremely flawed.
The problem stated is that bad things happen in the world and therefore God is evil. This is a pretty lame way to go about the existence of God or God being evil or not. In both the Bible and the Qur'an it is stated that life is a test and that on that path you will face suffering. Besides for those who have and are patient, there is reward.
Qur'an (2:155):
And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient.
If people could comprehend this simple thing they would not make it such a big deal. The suffering that humans experience is temporary and it will go away. Those bad things also happen because people make the choice to commit horrible deeds, it does not mean that God is happy with that decision.
Consider the example that Stephen Fry gave about children suffering with horrible diseases and what not, I have to ask. Why didn't he consider that children will get to heaven/paradise in both Christianity and Islam?
The problem stated is that bad things happen in the world and therefore God is evil. This is a pretty lame way to go about the existence of God or God being evil or not. In both the Bible and the Qur'an it is stated that life is a test and that on that path you will face suffering. Besides for those who have and are patient, there is reward.
Qur'an (2:155):
And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient.
If people could comprehend this simple thing they would not make it such a big deal. The suffering that humans experience is temporary and it will go away. Those bad things also happen because people make the choice to commit horrible deeds, it does not mean that God is happy with that decision.
Consider the example that Stephen Fry gave about children suffering with horrible diseases and what not, I have to ask. Why didn't he consider that children will get to heaven/paradise in both Christianity and Islam?
Why is it necessary for God to "test" human beings? As an omniscient and omnipotent being, why would he even make humans capable of committing sin? I can easily imagine a would free of suffering, granted that I was unrestricted in my ability to shape that world. To me, deciding against creating a peaceful, happy world is incomprehensible. That is, based on my human morality, creating unwarranted suffering is pointless and evil.
Last edited:
Zaynaldeen
blackpilled subhuman manlet
- Oct 18, 2018
- 108
'Human morality' is not universal, different societies and cultures have different moralities. In the Western committing sodomy with the same sex and then donating blood just for someone else to get STDs is alright, while in many other countries it isn't. Your morality is entirely subjective and if you're an atheist, the only authority for morality in your case is the government you live under. In a secular society where God plays no role, one thing could be okay one day and total insanity the next. Consider the gazillion genders we got now, a couple decades homosexuality alone was considered a mental illness in the West, now you can't criticise it in the slighest or you'll be fined, fired, attacked and looked down upon for it. Anyway, onto your question.
Why is it necessary for God to "test" human beings?
It is to test mankind's sincerity, whether they were truly sincere in their faith because a person will not be granted paradise for simply saying 'I believe' without any actions.
Let's take two people who call themselves Muslim, on one hand we have the liberal Muslim who pushes for secular and western values while ditching basic tenets of faith just to please those who aren't Muslim and on the other hand we have a martyr. It wouldn't be fair if both of these people ended up in the same situation after death. Essentially it's to prove ourselves where we belong.
Freedom of choice has been created for humans, so they can decide whether to go on a path of righteousness or a path of evil and sin. You'd think the hardships that you endure are part of the test? Oh no consider the blessings of wealth and power, these could lead people astray as well and then they are really just illusions.
When I say human morality, I do so to distinguish from any sort of value system that a more powerful, other-dimensional being may subscribe to. While it is true that the intricacies of moral systems differ from culture to culture, I don't believe that they are completely arbitrary. For instance, I think it would be difficult to find a moral system where you are supposed to harm to those who belong to your group. What has happened in the last few decades is that this group has been expanded to include people who were previously excluded from being covered by our moral imperatives. How we treat fellow group members remains more or less the same. Therefore, it seems to me that our moral systems reflect something that is inherent to human behaviour. I could, however, imagine that a being whose "mind" operates differently from ours, would have reason to act in ways that are beyond our comprehension.
Why is it necessary for God to "test" human beings?
But what is the purpose of even giving us a choice? If god wanted to, he could make it so that it is impossible to stray off the path that he wants us to stay on. He could, if he wanted to, make insincerity non-existent. Instead, he created a heavily flawed species which by nature is inclined to be sceptical of his message, and to be allured to by the temptations that he is responsible for. Further, he makes little to no effort to guide those who are unfortunate enough to have been born in the wrong part of the world, and he instead expects them to make choices that they find to be counter-intuitive.
TAW122
Emissary of the right to die.
- Aug 30, 2018
- 6,849
I stand by Stephen Fry on this one. Not just as an atheist or whether or not God exists (that's a different topic altogether), but in regards to what said about not wanting to worship a God that allows suffering. From a logical standpoint, if assuming that God is real, I too, would not want to worship a being that allowed injustice, pain & suffering, hardship and what not to my life as well as most/all humans on Earth. I would rather take eternal damnation knowing that I have exercised my free will and stood up for myself rather than being a sycophant. Furthermore, while all the disgusting pro-lifers and people who have hurt me are in heaven (assuming that they are a sycophant and went there), I would not have to deal with them.
Another bad thing about heaven as explained by YouTuber Holy KoolAid explains about the lack of free will in there and just existing in eternal mundaneness, where no progress can be made. Of course you would ask, but why is it bad? You don't have to suffer anymore and are in peace and joy. The bad thing is that you have no more free will or control and you wouldn't have the ability to even know that you don't have free will while in heaven.
Another bad thing about heaven as explained by YouTuber Holy KoolAid explains about the lack of free will in there and just existing in eternal mundaneness, where no progress can be made. Of course you would ask, but why is it bad? You don't have to suffer anymore and are in peace and joy. The bad thing is that you have no more free will or control and you wouldn't have the ability to even know that you don't have free will while in heaven.
Zaynaldeen
blackpilled subhuman manlet
- Oct 18, 2018
- 108
This is very important, the mind of a human is nothing compared to an all-powerful God.
But what is the purpose of even giving us a choice?
This is only the case for humans, angels were created to worship him 24/7.
Like I said, the choices are here because of a test. The choice is here to know who is worthy and who is not. You think you have the right to a heaven while you ignore God's commands and refuse to listen to Him and ignore Him for the rest of your life? This is why he is considered the most just, man gets reward or punishment for his deeds, really simple. It's like school, if you don't put any effort in you are punished and if you do good you are rewarded. It's the same as work, you do good, you might get promoted or get your salary increased, but if you do bad you are fired.
Heaven is literally you asking for whatever you want and then enjoying it forever. If you think this is evil you must be one self-entitled person. 'I want this and that' and getting whatever you want only to complain 5 minutes later seems extremely silly and unlikely. You could compare this life to a bad dream, once you wake up it's over, except you will not go to bed anymore. So much so that the billionaire that has never suffered in his will say that he had never have any luxury once he would be dipped in the hellfire for a mere second. And that the poor person who has only endured suffering his entire life will say that he has never endured any suffering in his life after being put in paradise for a mere second. Considering this you would not have said what you have said, if you'd be put in hellfire you would not even remember the suffering you endured here. The test isn't to do what you wish, when you wish, while ignoring commandments of God, it would be unjust for you to go to paradise then. Imagine stabbing a customer, swearimg at your boss and pissing on the floor and then expecting a promotion. That would be insane. You'd be surprised at how religious people react to this argument of 'If God is real then bad things would not happen'. It's a false premise and it has been memed the crap out of. No Offense.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/343/925/966.jpg
Johnnythefox
Que sera sera
- Nov 11, 2018
- 3,129
I told myself to avoid discussions about the great debate, so I'm just going to QUOTE this and leave the link to the rest of the article.
[God, however, many people accept with no proof at all. Belief in God is a product of upbringing, societal and cultural convention, a desire for comfort and intellectual laziness.]
https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2015-02-26-the-five-best-reasons-not-to-believe-in-god/
[God, however, many people accept with no proof at all. Belief in God is a product of upbringing, societal and cultural convention, a desire for comfort and intellectual laziness.]
https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2015-02-26-the-five-best-reasons-not-to-believe-in-god/
"Like I said, the choices are here because of a test". Ok, but what is the purpose of the test? And why does he give us this test knowing that we are more likely than not to fail at it? As an omniscient being he would know, for instance, that people would create religions that would mislead people into acting in ways that lead to eternal damnation. While you seem to emphasise how benevolent he must be since he is sending people to heaven, I think the fact that the god presented in the Abrahamic religions sends more people to hell than to heaven shows that he is not so.
As for the picture you posted, what we're saying is not an argument against the existence of a deity or deities, but rather that a deity like that would be unlikely to have our best interest in mind.
Zaynaldeen
blackpilled subhuman manlet
- Oct 18, 2018
- 108
I created a huge response, but it was deleted by a mod because it was 'offensive and derailing' so I won't continue, since remotely quoting a verse from a holy book is ban worthy here. Talk about being genuine. Second post was also deleted.
Last edited:
Zaynaldeen
blackpilled subhuman manlet
- Oct 18, 2018
- 108
Also since my posts get deleted anyway I'm just going to post some videos and shut up. If anyone here was sincere they would watch these videos. I know tons of people who converted because debates like this, personally. If this post gets deleted, I'm deleting my account.
Rollo
No pasaran
- Aug 13, 2018
- 461
He's throwing punches against religion and it's his right but his argument against God as understood outside of religion is flawed and arrogant. He's asking - how could God created these pesky insects that bite. Yet suffering that humans themselves inflicted on animal and human kingdom is comparable if not greater to that of insects. So if he was honest then what he should have been asking is - why God created existence of some other nature but a bunch of Steven Fry's being nothing but nice among themselves?
Chinaski
Arthur Scargill appreciator
- Sep 1, 2018
- 3,254
There are a lot of privileged, ostensibly slightly left-of-centre celebs who are lining up to nail Brexit at the minute; whilst l don't disagree with these perspectives whole-heartedly and did vote to remain l do wish these same privileged people had been even fractionally as vocal about the austerity policies undertaken by successive governments of liberal centre presentation which have contributed significantly to the feeling amongst the electorate which led to Brexit. The idea that leaving an opaque trading bloc is The Sign Of Political Meltdown yet failure to build a single council house in a generation, erosion and outsourcing of essential public services and swingeing welfare cuts to the poorest are Good Actually is absolutely absurd to me.
He's right about God though.
ReadyasEver
Elementalist
- Dec 6, 2018
- 828
I have always believed that God was created by man. To this day, man constantly contemplates his existence, looking for answers to questions he can not answer. Why are we here? What happens to us? What does the future hold? Early religions tried to give answers to incomprehensionable events. As we advance in scientific understanding, I think the answer becomes clearer, but it will be fought.
