Discussion Species dysmorphia and animal pronouns.

[Anxieyote]

It's one thing to have "acceptable" forms of body dysmorphia (male to female, female to male, etc.) but it seems like any other identification is seen purely as a mental illness.

I was watching a YouTube video where people were arguing about a "deer gender" where one of them was saying he had no problem identifying someone using deer pronouns because they had always identified more with deers than humans. And the other person was basically like, "No way in hell am I ever going to respect animal pronouns. Those people need serious mental help."

A popular online progressive named Destiny also denounced animal pronouns in a recent livestream, calling them "ridiculous" and arguing that it delegitimizes the people who experience real gender dysphoria.

This has actually been on my mind for a long time because I have looked at animals and thought to myself, "I wish I could be that instead of a human. My human body sucks."

I feel like it follows the same thought process that people who experience gender dysmorphia go through.

"I like guys. I really like guys. I want to be a guy. I'm a guy now."

"I like foxes. I really like foxes. I want to be a fox. I'm a fox now."

That's an over-simplification of course, and everyone's journey to discovering their gender is different, but I wouldn't want to delegitimize someone who truly felt that way.

You can identify as something that fits within the definition of human, but once you start crossing species, everyone checks out.

Visually, transitioning from a male to a female just requires you to dress like one, get some surgeries, take hormone pills, and you're good to go. People are more accepting of that because it is, at least, possible. It's not inconceivable that a man could look like a woman, and a woman could look like a man if they wanted to.

But if you look at an animal you like, and say, "I identify as that", there's no DNA-splicer to give you the physical traits of said animal. You could argue that you and the animal share certain characteristics or personalities that you identify with, but you're never going to "pass" as an animal in anyone's eyes.

I think that Vaush (another YouTube creator) had the best take on it out of everyone when he said something like, "We'll cross that bridge when it comes. Right now, it's important to advocate for base-level trans rights like MtF, non-binaries, FtM because they're palatable ideas that everyone can get behind. But I do think it would be really fucking cool to have a tail at some point in the future."

 

[rationaltake]

I get it. As far as I'm concerned people can use any pronouns that suit them.

What are the deer pronouns?

 

[Anxieyote]

This is what I found online @rationaltake , although the person they were debating about in the video used doe/doe's/doeself pronouns, so I'm assuming there is probably a stag/stag's/stagself for men?

 

[Bleak]

People can do whatever they want but I can't help but laugh at this. I too wish I could be a cat or a bird sometimes but asking people to call me one is just too absurd to me.

 

[rationaltake]

This is what I found online @rationaltake , although the person they were debating about in the video used doe/doe's/doeself pronouns, so I'm assuming there is probably a stag/stag's/stagself for men?

View attachment 81700

Thanks. This is really interesting. I get it now.

 

[Anxieyote]

People can do whatever they want but I can't help but laugh at this. I too wish I could be a cat or a bird sometimes but asking people to call me one is just too absurd to me.

I think animal genders would be an easier concept to swallow if it was possible to visually look like said animal. I was watching a livestream of someone who uses the deer pronouns, and they put little antlers on their head. In a real life setting, everyone would be trying to stifle their laughter because it looks like play-pretend. Everyone in high school also knew a few of those people who would stuff a wolf tail in their pants and say, "This is who I really am on the inside."

It's seen as infantile and a fantasy. It's very tempting to say "grow up" to someone like that, but at the same time…I'm sure they're out there. Us thinking it's weird or absurd doesn't change the fact that they do, and in that instance—are they just supposed to choose a "normal" pronoun and never feel fully comfortable with it?

 

[Bleak]

I have no idea, I truly can't wrap my head around their plight. I'm fine with them doing whatever they like but have to admit I'd feel a little irritated having to refer to someone as "deerself" with a straight face.

 

[CrossroadsCurious]

Edit - To clarify, I am refering to the idea behind this post, not the person themselves.

 

[Pluto]

I identify as a galah.


NOTE: Joke explanation.

 

[GenesAndEnvironment]

I feel like it follows the same thought process that people who experience gender dysmorphia go through.

"I like guys. I really like guys. I want to be a guy. I'm a guy now."

"I like foxes. I really like foxes. I want to be a fox. I'm a fox now."

Oh deer. IIRC, what happens is that the chromosomes don't line up with the brain structure. The brain can be on the masculine side while the chromosomes are XX, and then the person may become FtM, or vice versa. Might be some people that change genders due to some liking/disliking but it feels unlikely to happen a lot, especially unlikely to lead to actual surgeries that remove genitals and stuff.

Okay, so I just looked some things up and it turns out there may not be female or male brains. This makes sense since brains can (to a large extent) be programmed any which way. Combine this with how the concepts of men and women are always changing; it used to be masculine to have casual sex, but now the real men are all incels. We can still say that a specific cultural idea of male or female will correspond to certain brain features. This could very well mean that someone would be trans in one culture and cis in another, but that doesn't make a lot of sense. Has to instead be a wiring problem between the brain and the body, the brain wants to have estrogen/a womb/etc but instead is linked to testicles and shit. This is what the surgeries are all about, changing the body to adapt to the (more) solid (lower) aspects of the brain.

Another option is that some core features are biologically based and are not affected by culture, making brain-body mismatch a possibility throughout history while not having to ignore the relativity of gender roles. And these features of biology are then amplified by a culture (whether men wear pink or blue to show off their manly features of low body fat % and square jaws wouldn't matter).

So basically, sex=/=gender. You could then hypothetically be mostly culturally male in a male body but with a female sex-brain.

As you can tell, I don't read books and have to work everything out from memes and SaSu posts.

 

[busternaught]

"No way in hell am I ever going to respect animal pronouns. Those people need serious mental help."

Even if people believe that it's because of a serious mental illness, why are they so adamant about extending no respect to a person like that? Respecting someone's pronouns literally requires no effort. It's just straight up unempathic.

 

[motel rooms]

The ultra-leftists' response to the Jewish wildfire-causing space lasers. Finally.