Discussion Something I've noticed here

[just_a_guy]

I'm a recently registered user on this site but I have previously lurked without registering. With the focus of the site, it's understandable that people are supportive of other people who want to ctb and I feel that free will should cover suicide but something I've noticed is that there's a lot of sentiment here that encourages suicide as opposed to supporting choice. So my question is, why would people encourage others to commit suicide when the person giving the encouragement hasn't done it themselves? I don't intent this question to be disrespectful, I'm honestly just curious. If you're encouraging someone to ctb and you haven't attempted it, are you planning on doing that in the near future? Is there something stopping you from going through with it? Personally, I'm not planning to ctb. I've thought about it since I was 12 and almost went through with it once and it's been difficult to hold on at times but there have been things along the way that have made it worth it. Now, I still get the urge to just disappear but I'm in a much better place and I've learned to accept myself. I'm here to understand what other people are going through and offer support if they choose to end things or if they want to try to be happier.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

What's your definition of "encouragement" here? I've never had the feeling that people are really encouraged here to CTB, if so, such posts can be reported and are deleted quickly by mods.

 

[Fernando_Pessoa]

It's called Survival Instinct, aka SI.
If I didn't have that I would have been long gone by now.
SI Is a STRONG motherfucker, and sooo many people that are suffering immensely cannot get past it.
It's approaching the time for me to go, and my SI has faded to the lowest point it's ever been. I feel so sure I will CTB soon, but my SI may have other plans.
We'll see…

I hope this helps, and I appreciate the way you asked the question…with thoughtfulness and sensitivity.

 

[Division Day]

I can't say I've really notices what I would call encouraging it. It feels like an anti-suicide person would see anything other than "you have so much to live for! Here's the number for the samaritans" as encouragement.

99% of the tone here is always "if you decide to do this, I hope it works and you find peace". I wouldn't call that encouraging.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Not sure I entirely agree with this. There are certainly a few promortalists here who see death as everyone's best option. I'd say the majority of members will respond in kind to the tone of a person's thread though.

Purely as a hypothetical example- say a member posted something like this: 'I'm 18 and from an abusive home environment. I'm struggling with mental illness and other issues but- I have been accepted into uni. I don't know what to do.' I doubt many members would say- 'you should kill yourself. Your pain is valid and you have every right to.' When someone is on the fence- I'd wager more people will suggest recovery rather than support suicide. We're pro-choice- their choice. That's what's important here. If people haven't made that choice- generally members don't push them towards suicide. Most people will actually tell them maybe they're not quite ready to make that choice yet.

I'd say the majority of people in this part of the forum have already made their choice. Many don't appreciate unsolicited advice and platitudes. If they do want advice- they'll ask for it. Or- they'll check out the recovery section. So yes- there does tend to be kickback if someone comes on strong with a saviour complex. People tend to see that as disrespecting their right to choose. It can come across as patronizing and insensitive too- especially if that person wasn't looking for advice.

Generally- I'd say people quite often come here to be able to be openly pessimistic and honest without fear of being made to 'look on the bright side' or worse- be guilt tripped that they are wrong and selfish for having these thoughts.

Practicality wise though- I have to disagree with you. People shouldn't be encouraging suicide to someone who isn't sure. At most- people will however resonate with how another member is feeling and likely give them validation that it's understandable to feel like that. So- I agree that the criticism of this place being an 'echo- chamber' has merit but encouraging the act of suicide- no. That's entirely up to the individual to choose.

 

[FrostedHoax]

Personally, I don't really feel that this forum is really outright encouraging suicide unless you consider helping people find reliable methods when they ask for it as encouragement. If anything, this forum is more than willing to be supportive when someone expresses wanting to get better and find a reason to live.

99% of the tone here is always "if you decide to do this, I hope it works and you find peace". I wouldn't call that encouraging.

This is how I feel about the forum's tone as well.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

I don't see how any there's encouragement to ctb here, and if there is, the mods try their best to keep that out of the forum.

The forum respects people's freedom to choose and sometimes, there are people who try to help where they can but if a user decides that they do want to ctb, post a goodbye thread along with their reasons if they outline them, there isn't encouragement at all either then. There isn't any active users pushing people to ctb regardless of their situation or how they feel, that is against what this forum is about.

Also yes, there is something stopping people and that is SI, the whole narrative that ctb is so easy and a cowardly act is just gross and ridiculous of a claim, it takes a tremendous amount of effort to go against your si which has been hardwired through millions of years of evolution and we are just a continued product of that. For years, I even asked myself what it take for people to ctb and this may just sum it up

 

[just_a_guy]

It's called Survival Instinct, aka SI.
If I didn't have that I would have been long gone by now.
SI Is a STRONG motherfucker, and sooo many people that are suffering immensely cannot get past it.
It's approaching the time for me to go, and my SI has faded to the lowest point it's ever been. I feel so sure I will CTB soon, but my SI may have other plans.
We'll see…

I hope this helps, and I appreciate the way you asked the question…with thoughtfulness and sensitivity.

thank you for pointing that out. Yes, I believe SI is very powerful and compelling when it comes to a choice like this. I wish you all the best and peace, no matter which route you take

I can't say I've really notices what I would call encouraging it. It feels like an anti-suicide person would see anything other than "you have so much to live for! Here's the number for the samaritans" as encouragement.

99% of the tone here is always "if you decide to do this, I hope it works and you find peace". I wouldn't call that encouraging.

I agree that the majority of people here are very supportive which I think comes from the fact that most or all of us here know what it's like to not want to be around and we understand the pain that life can bring. I'm just curious about the other instances

Not sure I entirely agree with this. There are certainly a few promortalists here who see death as everyone's best option. I'd say the majority of members will respond in kind to the tone of a person's thread though.

Purely as a hypothetical example- say a member posted something like this: 'I'm 18 and from an abusive home environment. I'm struggling with mental illness and other issues but- I have been accepted into uni. I don't know what to do.' I doubt many members would say- 'you should kill yourself. Your pain is valid and you have every right to.' When someone is on the fence- I'd wager more people will suggest recovery rather than support suicide. We're pro-choice- their choice. That's what's important here. If people haven't made that choice- generally members don't push them towards suicide. Most people will actually tell them maybe they're not quite ready to make that choice yet.

I'd say the majority of people in this part of the forum have already made their choice. Many don't appreciate unsolicited advice and platitudes. If they do want advice- they'll ask for it. Or- they'll check out the recovery section. So yes- there does tend to be kickback if someone comes on strong with a saviour complex. People tend to see that as disrespecting their right to choose. It can come across as patronizing and insensitive too- especially if that person wasn't looking for advice.

Generally- I'd say people quite often come here to be able to be openly pessimistic and honest without fear of being made to 'look on the bright side' or worse- be guilt tripped that they are wrong and selfish for having these thoughts.

Practicality wise though- I have to disagree with you. People shouldn't be encouraging suicide to someone who isn't sure. At most- people will however resonate with how another member is feeling and likely give them validation that it's understandable to feel like that. So- I agree that the criticism of this place being an 'echo- chamber' has merit but encouraging the act of suicide- no. That's entirely up to the individual to choose.

I agree with you about this forum being very open and that's what I love about it, it's very honest and accepting of what other people would deem inappropriate ideas and thoughts. As I've mentioned in one of my previous replies, the forum is definitely a supportive place where people are just trying to be there for each other but there are the outliers and my question relates more to why someone would be pro-suicide but not actually go through with it themselves. I'm not asking from a point of demonizing that behavior, I just want to understand the perspective

I don't see how any there's encouragement to ctb here, and if there is, the mods try their best to keep that out of the forum.

The forum respects people's freedom to choose and sometimes, there are people who try to help where they can but if a user decides that they do want to ctb, post a goodbye thread along with their reasons if they outline them, there isn't encouragement at all either then. There isn't any active users pushing people to ctb regardless of their situation or how they feel, that is against what this forum is about.

Also yes, there is something stopping people and that is SI, the whole narrative that ctb is so easy and a cowardly act is just gross and ridiculous of a claim, it takes a tremendous amount of effort to go against your si which has been hardwired through millions of years of evolution and we are just a continued product of that. For years, I even asked myself what it take for people to ctb and this may just sum it up

thanks for the attachment, it's summed up nicely and I agree, ctb isn't an easy thing to go through with. Personally my son has kind of nullified any desires for a personal exit plan as I grew up without my father and I don't want to do that to him but my curiosity is about people's reasons ... reasons they stick around, reasons they choose to ctb ...

 

[Division Day]

It's hard to know exactly what you mean by outliers and other instances without examples, but I guess it wouldn't be super nice to quote someone's post for the sake of dragging them.

But for a lot of us who are still here, pro-suicide or pro-choice, it's method and SI that are the reason we haven't. I'm sure there are some who just want to talk about wanting death, but yeah, hand lots of us something that would put us to sleep and then kill us and we'd take it. But the readily available methods all have huge drawbacks.

 

[FailureToAll]

I haven't really seen much encouragement other than people wishing others peace if you're counting that. But I feel like this question could be reversed about recovery too, I'm sure plenty of people who encourage recovery aren't recovered themselves. You don't need to do something first to think it's a good option, i havent died or recovered but i can see the positive aspects of both and why people would want to do either. But I imagine most people that encourage ctb do plan to do it themselves eventually when they have the resources or manage to overcome SI. And I think a lot of people come on here with their mind already made up when they post, I doubt if anyone was unsure in their post that people would be urging them to ctb as the first option.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

If you have particular users in mind who advocate for death in general while sticking around, generally they lack access to an acceptable method. All unequivocal and direct encouragement is not tolerated here. You could argue things like "hope you find peace" are forms of encouragement but they are generally viewed as not, especially since the frequency with which they are said dilutes their impact somewhat.

 

[Abandoned Character]

Strictly speaking, it is encouraging to read goodbye threads. Perhaps it is just me, but when I see other users lay out their struggles and present their method to ctb, coupled with a live posting of their slow or quick exit from this world, I do feel a sense of "it's not so bad, I could do that too." I do admit, the first time I felt inspired by a goodbye thread, I got scared. Scared not only for myself (I cannot ctb, the pain would be to great for those around me), but for possibly young and vulnerable children here, who do not have the emotional maturity to properly process such a thought.

I think you are correct in your sentiment and some users are missing the nugget of truth. The encouragement is subtle and is not necessarily intentionally, consciously, or explicity shared. Given the nature of this forum, I do not know how avoidable subtle encouragement is.

 

[loopdaloop]

Maybe there's a lot of enabling and acceptence of all choices people might have, but no one really suggests to anyone to ctb if they didn't already stated that they wanted it so I don't agree that there's encouragement of any kind going on the site...

 

[carac]

I kind of get what you mean. I've never really seen any explicit encouragement like "go on you can do it, stop being such a pussy". I do see threads where people say they are not sure if they are ready. If think the majority of replies will say that if you are unsure then you are not ready. You get some replies saying you just gotta get over si, I think this type of thing could be seen as encouragement.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

Personally my son has kind of nullified any desires for a personal exit plan as I grew up without my father and I don't want to do that to him but my curiosity is about people's reasons ... reasons they stick around, reasons they choose to ctb ...

I think it's a very good thing that you are thinking about your son in this case and how you don't want to do to him what happened with you, not having a father in your life as I can relate since I never had one either present in my life at all whatsoever. Peoples reasons for wanting to ctb are so varied that they can't possibly be put in one big box of mental illness as campaigns like to point out, for example, I could want to ctb because I wish to no longer be inconvenienced by life itself since it is the source of all suffering. That's why suicide is such hard conversation to have from a mature point of view and society just isn't there right now hence why a forum like this even exists.

 

[outrider567]

I'm a recently registered user on this site but I have previously lurked without registering. With the focus of the site, it's understandable that people are supportive of other people who want to ctb and I feel that free will should cover suicide but something I've noticed is that there's a lot of sentiment here that encourages suicide as opposed to supporting choice. So my question is, why would people encourage others to commit suicide when the person giving the encouragement hasn't done it themselves? I don't intent this question to be disrespectful, I'm honestly just curious. If you're encouraging someone to ctb and you haven't attempted it, are you planning on doing that in the near future? Is there something stopping you from going through with it? Personally, I'm not planning to ctb. I've thought about it since I was 12 and almost went through with it once and it's been difficult to hold on at times but there have been things along the way that have made it worth it. Now, I still get the urge to just disappear but I'm in a much better place and I've learned to accept myself. I'm here to understand what other people are going through and offer support if they choose to end things or if they want to try to be happier.

Nobody is encouraging suicide here, all we do is exchange information, so nobody winds up being a vegetable, and we offer support for whatever decision a poster makes here

 

[just_a_guy]

I think it's a very good thing that you are thinking about your son in this case and how you don't want to do to him what happened with you, not having a father in your life as I can relate since I never had one either present in my life at all whatsoever. Peoples reasons for wanting to ctb are so varied that they can't possibly be put in one big box of mental illness as campaigns like to point out, for example, I could want to ctb because I wish to no longer be inconvenienced by life itself since it is the source of all suffering. That's why suicide is such hard conversation to have from a mature point of view and society just isn't there right now hence why a forum like this even exists.

I 100% agree, people who haven't wanted to ctb just think there's something wrong with you and it can easily be solved but there are so many nuances to the situation and why someone might want to. Forums like this are a good thing in my opinion because it encourages open discussion about a very serious topic that most people feel uncomfortable talking about

 

[Deleted member 65988]

I 100% agree, people who haven't wanted to ctb just think there's something wrong with you and it can easily be solved but there are so many nuances to the situation and why someone might want to. Forums like this are a good thing in my opinion because it encourages open discussion about a very serious topic that most people feel uncomfortable talking about

It's just as @RainAndSadness pointed out in in the thread breaking down the BBC article, forums like this exist because it's a symptom of the dysfunctional as hell society we find ourselves in, so those who haven't wanted to ctb consider anyone who does to be sick or lost and just need help but the form of that help is often ignorant of why people even get to such a place of wanting to ctb. This forum is Peer support by suicidal people for suicidal people and it works because despite the differences we may have in what we are dealing with, we still have time to hear each other out and that's honestly better than the paid therapy out there that just puts people on medication, hoping that it'll make all the problems go away with the reasons they held strongly to ctb erased as well. Society never really fails to let those who are misunderstood the most, down.

We live in a truly fucked up world and anyone who can't see why people would want to ctb clearly hasn't considered anything contrary to their position.

It is a very taboo, controversial topic also because religions drive home the idea that God is against suicide because he gave us all life and only he should take it away which I don't know how they know that, let alone if they can demonstrate there is a God who has the agency to make a choice to take someone's life away and if he does then well, he should've spared people of cancer, war and other illnesses that cause death in the most painful of ways which is how most people will die.

 

[tiger b]

Like others here, in what I have seen on this site I don't see anyone encouraging suicide, not at all - more like not discouraging . Occasionally a certain poster or posters will express strong views on the subject but it's clear that's their opinion and there are many differing personal opinions here. If it was some sort of cruel death cult, I don't think many would stick around.

I'd say that confirmation bias could easily be employed to make an erroneous conclusion of the nature of this website.

Meanwhile all sorts of institutions are encouraging people to 'talk' in the UK. Yeah, as long as you don't say the wrong things. And whose really listening?

 

[SVEN]

Possibly you'd find more receptive members over on the Recovery Section, if you're not considering ctb for yourself and wish to offer support. Most of us on a Suicide Discussion Thread are more into the nuts and bolts of method and opportunity.
For myself, to satisfy your curiosity, I have my own, painfull health issues with which to cope as well as being the sole carer for a semi invalid partner and an elderly dog who both love and depend on me.

 

[FuneralCry]

Sorry but suicide just isn't as straightforward as just choosing to be gone. I find it tiresome when people continue to ask the why are you still here question on a forum full of people struggling to die. If we could all just have the option to easily leave this existence I doubt there would be much need for this site in the first place.

If someone is able to access a reliable suicide method then that is a privilege, a reliable exit from this existence simply isn't a human right as after all we exist in this society where suicide is purposely made so inaccessible for people.

Also I don't understand all this talk about "encouragement", sorry but respecting someone's decision that they've already chosen for themselves isn't encouraging them to go through with ctb, people don't tell others to just go and die on here. Honestly it sounds like you've never even read the forum before.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

If someone is able to access a reliable suicide method then that is a privilege, a reliable exit from this existence simply isn't a human right as after all we exist in this society where suicide is purposely made so inaccessible for people.

True, we have to make do with SN or hanging because we don't have the right to choose a reliable exit.

 

[just_a_guy]

True, we have to make do with SN or hanging because we don't have the right to choose a reliable exit.

what method would you choose if there were no restrictions?

 

[Deleted member 65988]

what method would you choose if there were no restrictions?

No restrictions?
Well then N and that's a question if I can afford it but yeah, either N or shotgun to the head.

 

[AerialBoundaries]

I actively discourage, in some situations, but realise at the same time, that some people just don't make it. I would never hold it against a person that did it because they were out of options. They've struggled long enough.

 

[orphic]

I'm a recently registered user on this site but I have previously lurked without registering. With the focus of the site, it's understandable that people are supportive of other people who want to ctb and I feel that free will should cover suicide but something I've noticed is that there's a lot of sentiment here that encourages suicide as opposed to supporting choice. So my question is, why would people encourage others to commit suicide when the person giving the encouragement hasn't done it themselves? I don't intent this question to be disrespectful, I'm honestly just curious. If you're encouraging someone to ctb and you haven't attempted it, are you planning on doing that in the near future? Is there something stopping you from going through with it? Personally, I'm not planning to ctb. I've thought about it since I was 12 and almost went through with it once and it's been difficult to hold on at times but there have been things along the way that have made it worth it. Now, I still get the urge to just disappear but I'm in a much better place and I've learned to accept myself. I'm here to understand what other people are going through and offer support if they choose to end things or if they want to try to be happier.

I also noticed this actually but i refrained from talking about it to avoid confrontation. However, i think it could be explained either by reflex when they try to commit so thats why theyre alive or theyre just ppl who act suicidal to appeal to others and make them try their methods..which is no doubt a sick behavior.

 

[Fernando_Pessoa]

Not sure I entirely agree with this. There are certainly a few promortalists here who see death as everyone's best option. I'd say the majority of members will respond in kind to the tone of a person's thread though.

Purely as a hypothetical example- say a member posted something like this: 'I'm 18 and from an abusive home environment. I'm struggling with mental illness and other issues but- I have been accepted into uni. I don't know what to do.' I doubt many members would say- 'you should kill yourself. Your pain is valid and you have every right to.' When someone is on the fence- I'd wager more people will suggest recovery rather than support suicide. We're pro-choice- their choice. That's what's important here. If people haven't made that choice- generally members don't push them towards suicide. Most people will actually tell them maybe they're not quite ready to make that choice yet.

I'd say the majority of people in this part of the forum have already made their choice. Many don't appreciate unsolicited advice and platitudes. If they do want advice- they'll ask for it. Or- they'll check out the recovery section. So yes- there does tend to be kickback if someone comes on strong with a saviour complex. People tend to see that as disrespecting their right to choose. It can come across as patronizing and insensitive too- especially if that person wasn't looking for advice.

Generally- I'd say people quite often come here to be able to be openly pessimistic and honest without fear of being made to 'look on the bright side' or worse- be guilt tripped that they are wrong and selfish for having these thoughts.

Practicality wise though- I have to disagree with you. People shouldn't be encouraging suicide to someone who isn't sure. At most- people will however resonate with how another member is feeling and likely give them validation that it's understandable to feel like that. So- I agree that the criticism of this place being an 'echo- chamber' has merit but encouraging the act of suicide- no. That's entirely up to the individual to choose.

Extremely well-put, and spot-on.
Thank you.

I don't see how any there's encouragement to ctb here, and if there is, the mods try their best to keep that out of the forum.

The forum respects people's freedom to choose and sometimes, there are people who try to help where they can but if a user decides that they do want to ctb, post a goodbye thread along with their reasons if they outline them, there isn't encouragement at all either then. There isn't any active users pushing people to ctb regardless of their situation or how they feel, that is against what this forum is about.

Also yes, there is something stopping people and that is SI, the whole narrative that ctb is so easy and a cowardly act is just gross and ridiculous of a claim, it takes a tremendous amount of effort to go against your si which has been hardwired through millions of years of evolution and we are just a continued product of that. For years, I even asked myself what it take for people to ctb and this may just sum it up

Wow, powerful quote, and probably the best way I've ever heard it explained. Thank you for this, and also for your words. Spot-on.