Society claims suicide is illogical

[Logic]

No one knows what death is, how we are here, or a million other questions you would have to determine first in order to say life is superior to death. The default position is not life is worth it. That is a claim that needs to be demonstrated.

 

[mattwitt]

A lot of people don't believe in an after life or just not sure if one exists so in the end their world view is that if your lucky you might live for around 70 years so you should make the most out of your life while you can and try to live as long as possible because death lasts a lot longer then life

 

[bigj75]

I think that completely depends on the individuals circumstance. They determine if their own life is worth living. But there are basics to living that increase your % of life enjoyment.

• Hobbies
• Healthy Living
• Money/Job
• Good Family/Friends
• Romantic Companionship

If the average person had all those things the majority would say their life is worth it.

 

[Smilla]

Death is the end

 

[Redt2go]

No one knows what death is, how we are here, or a million other questions you would have to determine first in order to say life is superior to death. The default position is not life is worth it. That is a claim that needs to be demonstrated.

Well what do you think?

 

[anonymous23x]

Life - a cycle of shit. A repeating cycle of severe depression with logical and obvious causes that I TRULY cannot escape.
Death - My escape.

All the logic I need

 

[Moth]

Society in an arse And thus I refuse to take heed of its opinions

 

[Asianfailure]

Life - a cycle of shit. A repeating cycle of severe depression with logical and obvious causes that I TRULY cannot escape.
Death - My escape.

All the logic I need

Agree with everything you said, not to mention that even if there's nothing at all in death at least it won't be as painful as having to live through the repeating cycles of depression which is unbearable. Every time I think I've escaped is just more false hope as the cycle inevitably repeats itself.

Plus, it's not like I haven't tried to get better, I have tried so hard and it is completely exhausting. Eventually you lose all hope and realise that it's not even worth the pain of being disappointed every time depression hits again. I'd rather be dead now than go through cycles of this torture.

 

[anonymous23x]

Agree with everything you said, not to mention that even if there's nothing at all in death at least it won't be as painful as having to live through the repeating cycles of depression which is unbearable. Every time I think I've escaped is just more false hope as the cycle inevitably repeats itself.

Plus, it's not like I haven't tried to get better, I have tried so hard and it is completely exhausting. Eventually you lose all hope and realise that it's not even worth the pain of being disappointed every time depression hits again. I'd rather be dead now than go through cycles of this torture.

I completely agree, i feel the same way. The majority of people at my university had such a happy life, some of them put in minimal effort and were still so happy. It's not really about the things we do, its about the fate we have always had written in stone.

Fighting fate is the hardest part... it is exhausting and seemingly pointless. I'm waiting on one more point i need to prove to myself before i ctb

 

[bigj75]

I completely agree, i feel the same way. The majority of people at my university had such a happy life, some of them put in minimal effort and were still so happy. It's not really about the things we do, its about the fate we have always had written in stone.

Fighting fate is the hardest part... it is exhausting and seemingly pointless. I'm waiting on one more point i need to prove to myself before i ctb

I think the basics are what makes people happy. If your health is good and you have a job or some kind of hobby everything else like University and stuff doesn't need much attention if any to make the person happy.

 

[Logic]

I think that completely depends on the individuals circumstance. They determine if their own life is worth living. But there are basics to living that increase your % of life enjoyment.

• Hobbies
• Healthy Living
• Money/Job
• Good Family/Friends
• Romantic Companionship

If the average person had all those things the majority would say their life is worth it.

Social relationships are generally the most important factor in happiness, depression etc. Which makes sense since we are social animals.

 

[Logic]

A lot of people don't believe in an after life or just not sure if one exists so in the end their world view is that if your lucky you might live for around 70 years so you should make the most out of your life while you can and try to live as long as possible because death lasts a lot longer then life

That predisposes life is better than death. Prove your claim.

 

[Logic]

Well what do you think?

I think the suicide policy in most places is based on magic and stigma rather than science. Ie the thinking/assumptions are life is always worth it because it worth it even if you have an untreatable condition. Which inevitably leads to people being in more pain than being raped everyday including non suicidal people, espically in America. People are hooked up to tubes to be saved until the last possible second no matter how much pain it brings. Studies show families will generally choose their loved one to be hooked up to tubes to the last possible second when they can't consent. It doesn't matter if the pain is worse than being raped and there a 0.01 % of prolonging your life for a month in a hospital bed. They still do what they can to keep you alive. Stigma and magic prevents people from dying. Ie you can't die you are a coward, death is the most terrible thing ever etc even though many of these people claim once you die you go to eternal paradise. I see death as an neutral, it's a total absence, it's not bad but it's not good like an eternal dreamless sleep, which puts it around a neutral. We tell people you feel better through drugs even though the studies show the real way you feel better long term is through changing brain chemistry environmental factors. If someone who is not chronically ill, generally improves their social relationships through whatever means, exercises, sets meaningful goals they will generally have a higher quality of life, standard of living etc.

 

[Firecaste]

Society can't claim anything, individual's can. Checkmate.

 

[lost_soul83]

No one knows what death is, how we are here, or a million other questions you would have to determine first in order to say life is superior to death. The default position is not life is worth it. That is a claim that needs to be demonstrated.

I've never thought about it that way before, but it's a great point. No one knows what happens after death, it could be paradise for all we know. So no one has the right to say life is better, not until there's proof that death is worse.

 

[Logic]

Society can't claim anything, individual's can. Checkmate.

Individuals make up society. When enough individuals claim something it establishes and so on which leads to society claiming something.

 

[mattwitt]

That predisposes life is better than death. Prove your claim.

Uh That's not my claim at all ! Just giving you some reasons why some in society claim that suicide is illogical

 

[Logic]

Uh That's not my claim at all ! Just giving you some reasons why some in society claim that suicide is illogical

That argument only makes sense if life is better than death. For instance I don't want to kicked in balls hard a few time just because it only last a few seconds and is so much shorter than the rest of my life.

 

[Redt2go]

That argument only makes sense if life is better than death. For instance I don't want to kicked in balls hard a few time just because it only last a few seconds and is so much shorter than the rest of my life.

He said in his comment that it applies to people who think there's nothing after death. Obviously there's no right answer and there will always be a what if clause

 

[Logic]

He said in his comment that it applies to people who think there's nothing after death. Obviously there's no right answer and there will always be a what if clause

I have thought their is nothing after death since I have been a child despite being grown in a heavily religious home, yet I reject it because I think its based on the assumption life is superior to death. Could I be wrong? sure, but no one has ever explained how it would be based on another assumption etc.

 

[VoloFataliDoce]

If my life experiences have taught me anything, it's that most people are incredibly idiotic and short-sighted. They don't want to do the thinking that is required to get past the notion that possibly life isn't as great as it seems (much more thinking and empathy is required to imagine that other people's lives aren't that good). Most people have the default mindset that human life is good and worth preserving at any cost, yet they have no trouble euthanizing their dog in its old age. In my opinion, until we can teach people to think critically about this complex issue, society isn't going to change its mind.

 

[Redt2go]

I have thought their is nothing after death since I have been a child despite being grown in a heavily religious home, yet I reject it because I think its based on the assumption life is superior to death. Could I be wrong? sure, but no one has ever explained how it would be based on another assumption etc.

My brain has been a bit off lately . I don't understand the it you're referring to.

 

[mattwitt]

If my life experiences have taught me anything, it's that most people are incredibly idiotic and short-sighted. They don't want to do the thinking that is required to get past the notion that possibly life isn't as great as it seems (much more thinking and empathy is required to imagine that other people's lives aren't that good). Most people have the default mindset that human life is good and worth preserving at any cost, yet they have no trouble euthanizing their dog in its old age. In my opinion, until we can teach people to think critically about this complex issue, society isn't going to change its mind.

People also don't seem to understand that we all die eventually anyway. And they don't seem to understand at all that physical pain resulting from old age isn't the only type of suffering people go through in this shitty life.

 

[Logic]

My brain has been a bit off lately . I don't understand the it you're referring to.

So I have been agnostic my entire life, I have never believed in an after life, yet I think the argument that life is short you are going to be dead much longer than you are alive so you live as long as possible is really stupid. I would not choose to do something less enjoyable than what I am doing just because it would not take long assuming no reward, increasing others well being etc after. Would you accept that you should watch a movie by yourself you did not like because it's very short in comparison to your life and most of your life you will not be watching that movie?
It's flawed reasoning, it falls utterly apart if you analyze it.

 

[Redt2go]

So I have been agnostic my entire life, I have never believed in an after life, yet I think the argument that life is short you are going to be dead much longer than you are alive so you live as long as possible is really stupid. I would not choose to do something less enjoyable than what I am doing just because it would not take long assuming no reward, increasing others well being etc after. Would you accept that you should watch a movie by yourself you did not like because it's very short in comparison to your life and most of your life you will not be watching that movie?
It's flawed reasoning, it falls utterly apart if you analyze it.

Oh! Yeah I agree with your reasoning for sure.

 

[waived]

Of course. It makes sense that a society of coercion wouldn't want destabilizing ways of thinking becoming popular. The idea that it is a society incapable of sustaining its subjects to the point of all age groups committing suicide is part of it but it's the instance of those people becoming self aware of conditions imposed against them that led to 'the feelings of suicide' that poses a genuine threat. Examples being gross lack of necessary medical and poverty. It is the beginning of people realizing that none of this is intrinsic to humans as a species, it is entirely constructed by humans and many of the prerequisites to a life not worth living are inherent to how society continues onward.

This is in contrast to people choosing from and flowing with the dominant beliefs that successfully reify society which is possible only after hundreds and thousands of years of violence, and recurrent violence against all threats to its continuation.

 

[Whiskeyjames]

Who gives a fuck about the logic, society should only cares/protect those who actually contribute to it. If your existsnce doesn't matter to anyone or you are useless, noone should cares about you, but your love ones. look at those homeless, the government doesn't give a fuck if they commit sucide but they just don't want to take care of those bodies and it would give their nation bad rebutation.

 

[waived]

Who gives a fuck about the logic, society should only cares/protect those who actually contribute to it. If your existsnce doesn't matter to anyone or you are useless, noone should cares about you, but your love ones. look at those homeless, the government doesn't give a fuck if they commit sucide but they just don't want to take care of those bodies and it would give their nation bad rebutation.

There is nothing more-real about society, it is just the current enforced social, economic, and political modes. None of our existences matter, there is no intrinsic meaning, so why should anyone spend their time performing activities under duress and worse for something made up by others to benefit them and for the continuity of the whole process? Why should I rationalize my freedom and quality of life being determined by how much I matter to a process that's going to be miserable and likely kill me? Why should I not at least think if not act in my self interest? The reason States care about things (like homelessness) is because they've learned that full fledged barbarism is usually followed by insurrection so they offer piss poor assistance and keep the casualties to a minimum because they know the current mode they enforce requires things like abject poverty in order to function. It is also a talking point that works to guarantee an internal political continuity. As a system it sometimes seeks a modest relationship with its subjects and it of course encourages participation as entrepreneurial additions to it. In weakened or more precarious States you'll see a higher level of overt violence because it's not just the individual players in power who are threatened by the conditions they impose it is the dominant order itself that risks a turning over.

Also relevant to the homelessness example is the encouragement from the existent framework for all assistance to 'it's problem areas' to be channeled through it's personally sanctioned means which doesn't just prevent instances of instability via incursions to a beyond or to logical space outside of it but actively involves and encourages the above mentioned political processes. All local and national government activities. So then we have citizenry and logical control over a population where there is a limited ability for an awareness of the mentioned beyond or logical space outside of it.

 

[Whiskeyjames]

There is nothing more-real about society, it is just the current enforced social, economic, and political modes. None of our existences matter, there is no intrinsic meaning, so why should anyone spend their time performing activities under duress and worse for something made up by others to benefit them and for the continuity of the whole process? Why should I rationalize my freedom and quality of life being determined by how much I matter to a process that's going to be miserable and likely kill me? Why should I not at least think if not act in my self interest? The reason States care about things (like homelessness) is because they've learned that full fledged barbarism is usually followed by insurrection so they offer piss poor assistance and keep the casualties to a minimum because they know the current mode they enforce requires things like abject poverty in order to function. It is also a talking point that works to guarantee an internal political continuity. As a system it sometimes seeks a modest relationship with its subjects and it of course requires 'contribution' and participation. In weakened or more precarious States you'll see a higher level of overt violence because it's not just the individual players in power who are threatened by the conditions they impose it is the dominant order itself that risks a turning over.

Also relevant to the homelessness example is the encouragement from the existent framework for all assistance to be channeled through it's personally sanctioned means which doesn't just prevent instances of instability but actively recoups the above mentioned political processes.

I really like your idea!! ..but I rather not waste my energy and time thinking about these stuffs now (intoxicated now)

 

[I am ___________]

If it is something that does not benefit "society" and their interest, it is put in a negative light. For example: The japanese population decline, and marriage rate decline, the stigma that being single is a bad thing and that no one should value or put themselves before others or videogames. In the end "society" and others just want to harvest as much resources from you until you expire, it is a pillar of greed. What is truly selfish is asking someone to spend 70+ years staying alive just so their existence can only benefit a select few.... while they are in constant agony and suffering. Society can go fuck itself..... in all honesty.