Simulation Hypothesis and Suicide

[CryWolf]

Simulation Hypothesis:
The theory that we are all existing in a computer programmed simulation.

I'm sure most of us have heard about this by now. (If not, look it up, fascinating theory!)

Ever since I started thinking about it, I started wondering what the point would be. Would it be a test?

Is committing suicide the only way to escape the matrix?

 

[Foresight]

No, I don't think suicide would lead to escape. It seems more like a game reload to me. "Enlightenment", whatever that means, seems to be the way out imo.

 

[elfin]

this theory always leads me to an existential crisis, lol. i would be curious to know the answer though, if this were the case.

 

[Somber]

I don't think simulation hypothesis is the same as The Matrix. If you are a piece of code as part of a program, there is nowhere to escape to. It's not like you exist outside of it.

 

[BRuss]

It can be a simulation without having any consciousness actively programming it.

 

[justsayin]

Simulation hypothesis is modern take on religion (with god creating and running simulation, and prophets preaching it, and believers praising them). Computational complexity, on the other hand, is science and goes against it.

Here is similar thread:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/do-we-live-in-a-simulation-sandbox.78543/

 

[Ligottian]

Who would have simulated the simulator? Sort of the like the infinite regress question of who created God. Perhaps it was inevitable that in the digital age fertile imaginations would conceive of a simulation.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Simulation Hypothesis:
The theory that we are all existing in a computer programmed simulation.

I'm sure most of us have heard about this by now. (If not, look it up, fascinating theory!)

Ever since I started thinking about it, I started wondering what the point would be. Would it be a test?

Is committing suicide the only way to escape the matrix?

20 milliliters of water has 10 sextillion particles in it 10 to the 22nd power.

A human is composed of at least 30 trillion cells . Each cell Is a very complex machine.

In the nucleus of each human cell is the DNA which holds information equivalent to 5000 books.

The brain has 200 trillion connections between brain cells .

Then the scale of the universe. The next nearest star after the sun is 25 trillion miles . So that's just the space between stars .

There could not be a computer to hold all the this unimaginable amount of data.

And then for what reason would someone or something devote all these computer resources to run a simulation of this scale?

What's this programmer going to be in thinking:
"I'm a super intelligent being I'm going to create DNA machines to be tortured by disease, hunger , thirst,cold , predators, parasites , old age, injury, accident just for the heck of it"

So i don't think the universe is a simulation.

 

[rationaltake]

I like the theory that it's a game and we're players.

 

[Shu]

I don't think simulation hypothesis is the same as The Matrix. If you are a piece of code as part of a program, there is nowhere to escape to. It's not like you exist outside of it.

Fuck. I wish you wouldn't have said that.

20 milliliters of water has 10 sextillion particles in it 10 to the 22nd power.

A human is composed of at least 10 trillion cells . Each cell Is a very complex machine.

In the nucleus of each human cell is the DNA which holds information equivalent to 5000 books.

The brain has 200 trillion connections between brain cells .

Then the scale of the universe. The next nearest star after the sun is 25 trillion miles . So that's just the space between stars .

There could not be a computer to hold all the this unimaginable amount of data.

And then for what reason would someone or something devote all these computer resources to run a simulation of this scale?

What's this programmer going to be in thinking:
"I'm a super intelligent being I'm going to create DNA machines to be tortured by disease, hunger , thirst,cold , predators, parasites , old age, injury, accident just for the heck of it"

So i don't think the universe is a simulation.

Maybe the mainframe got hacked
This is off topic but You know funny is people always throw "science" into the mix.

"While much of the world was living in primitive conditions, the ancient Egyptians were inventing writing and advancing the sciences of mathematics, medicine and astronomy. They developed ways to measure time and distances , and applied their knowledge to monumental architecture."


these were also people who believed in a life after death

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

I don´t think that this simulation needs much computer resources, it has to simulate only the little world in your brain, all the rest is an illusion. Suicide would be an illusion too.

 

[Somber]

Fuck. I wish you wouldn't have said that.

I take it back!

 

[Life sucks]

Simulation hypothesis is modern take on religion (with god creating and running simulation, and prophets preaching it, and believers praising them). Computational complexity, on the other hand, is science and goes against it.

Here is similar thread:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/do-we-live-in-a-simulation-sandbox.78543/

While it's true that this could be viewed from computational complexity perspective and it could lead to the same result (being arbitrarily large input), the main problem is computability, because such functions are not computable. It's already proven mathematically that those functions are impossible.

Using computability leaves no way for trying to dodge the conclusion because it shows how the entire function is impossible. Unlike computational complexity which only deals with computable functions.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Fuck. I wish you wouldn't have said that.

Maybe the mainframe got hacked
This is off topic but You know funny is people always throw "science" into the mix.

"While much of the world was living in primitive conditions, the ancient Egyptians were inventing writing and advancing the sciences of mathematics, medicine and astronomy. They developed ways to measure time and distances , and applied their knowledge to monumental architecture."


these were also people who believed in a life after death

20 milliliters of water is just over a teaspoon and contains 10 sextillion particles that number is a 1 with 22 zeros after it. Why would anything make something so complex and devote so many computer resources to simulate that and the much larger universe ?

I don´t think that this simulation needs much computer resources, it has to simulate only the little world in your brain, all the rest is an illusion. Suicide would be an illusion too.

Why would anyone simulate that , a small animal like me to be tortured by constant thirst, constant hunger , pain, disease , old age, injury , suffering, grief, depression,accident , stroke, lies, injustice, predators, problems etc? For what reason? Where is the evidence?

i think people are saying that with simulation theory or religions is that reality is not reality that it is something else . But they don't provide the details of what that alternate reality is or who created it , nor any evidence or proof of that reality. i through decades of experimentation and checking a lot of the science and observation as Darwin and Aristotle have, i believe to me this is the only reality

Still would be a lot of trouble and resources to fool 7 billion "humans". So then you are saying reality is something else and all the universe, stars , world etc are being simulated just to each human. So what is reality ? And who is this programmer torturer? why would anyone do this and where is any evidence that this is true?

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

20 milliliters of water is just over a teaspoon and contains 10 sextillion particles that number is a 1 with 22 zeros after it. Why would anything make something so complex and devote so many computer resources to simulate that and the much larger universe ?


Why would anyone simulate that , a small animal like me to be tortured by constant thirst, constant hunger , pain, disease , old age, injury , suffering, grief, depression,accident , stroke, lies, injustice, predators, problems etc? For what reason? Where is the evidence?

i think people are saying that with simulation theory or religions is that reality is not reality that it is something else . But they don't provide the details of what that alternate reality is or who created it , nor any evidence or proof of that reality. i through decades of experimentation and checking a lot of the science and observation as Darwin and Aristotle have, i believe to me this is the only reality

Still would be a lot of trouble and resources to fool 7 billion "humans". So then you are saying reality is something else and all the universe, stars , world etc are being simulated just to each human. So what is reality ? And who is this programmer torturer? why would anyone do this and where is any evidence that this is true?

This simulation takes place right now in your brain. There is an instance between your conscious mind and the world outside. Freud called this instance the unconscious and here takes the simulation place. We know nothing about reality the unconscious feeds our conscious mind only with those fragments of reality which are important for us to survive. And the unconscious uses the same screen for our dreams and our aspects of the world outside. There is an inbuilt realty control, if this is not working, we cannot differentiate between dreaming and being awake. I guess everybody once woke up from a dream and becomes aware later that he is still dreaming. So, it´s only natural to think that we could still dream like the solipsists do.

Not 7 billion humans are fooled, it´s only me and you are not existing! This is polemic, but it would be very effective for the programmer (evolution?). If you believe in evolution, you should not ask for things like purpose or aim.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

This simulation takes place right now in your brain. There is an instance between your conscious mind and the world outside. Freud called this instance the unconscious and here takes the simulation place. We know nothing about reality the unconscious feeds our conscious mind only with those fragments of reality which are important for us to survive. And the unconscious uses the same screen for our dreams and our aspects of the world outside. There is an inbuilt realty control, if this is not working, we cannot differentiate between dreaming and being awake. I guess everybody once woke up from a dream and becomes aware later that he is still dreaming. So, it´s only natural to think that we could still dream like the solipsists do.

Not 7 billion humans are fooled, it´s only me and you are not existing! This is polemic, but it would be very effective for the programmer (evolution?). If you believe in evolution, you should not ask for things like purpose or aim.

So you are saying some hypothetical super intelligent being and hypothetical super advanced computer technology that doesn't exist is the only reality and all the quadrillions of details that prove reality that I can test are false . And this is with no evidence no proof to back up anything in the simulation theory. So what is the real reality ?

Explain what is the real me? Where is the evidence the details of the process, the real world , the programmer?

U r saying someone is running a super perfect program to simulate the 70, 000 thoughts I this small animal has per day and all the trillions of pixels in images I see every day and for what reason are they doing this to torture me?
The possible combinations of actions, thoughts or tests even I as a single individual can have or do results in a combinatorial explosion which has been proven to be non-computable.

The Curse of Dimensionality - Combinatorial Explosions

Combinatorial explosions occur frequently in insurance pricing. How can machine learning automation make this process easier for actuaries?

www.datarobot.com

Just a single test with just 27 factors or 27 steps would result in this combinatorial explosion:

I've read books on DNA, evolution the brain many other sciences and tech information theory etc ,. So u r saying all the trillions of details of each progressively built technology was programmed into my brain by someone and for what reason ? Why?

I can read thousands of books on electrical and mechanical engineering then all the technology that goes into making a car or airplane and you say that those thousands of books with trillions of progressively built up technology starting with the wheel are all fake and in code and data somewhere ( where exactly?) All this Just to fool me a small rat , with no glitch ever no bug in the programs.
Who would go to the trouble of programming that level of detail. Why?

You can cross check and test every level of detail of many technologies and science that proves it's real. No one can think to program in this simulation program every possible combination of tests that I could do which is a combinatorial explosion.This is how you prove what is real not through faith in what some other human says is real with no evidence to back it up as in this simulation theory or religions.

Some Examples of tests could be Arduino electronics robotics tests one can do or any engineering, looking in microscopes, telescopes etc

I'm a programmer and it's impossible to eliminate bugs.

If I go look at my microscope then I can see the ever increasing detail of the microscopic world that matches perfectly the details in any book on the cell

To me this is similar to religions but even worse: " believe what I say with no evidence and doubt your senses and tests"
Where is the evidence for any of this? Why would anyone program me a small as a animal to suffer constant thirst and hunger, to suffer from disease, old age dementia, extreme pain ,suffering grief stroke , homelessness , accidents , Injury injustice , lies , oppression, scams , depression, parasites, Lyme, cancer , and other hells why why why would someone do that ? For what reason?

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

So you are saying some hypothetical super intelligent being and hypothetical super advanced computer technology that doesn't exist is the only reality and all the quadrillions of details that prove reality that I can test are false . And this is with no evidence no proof to back up anything in the simulation theory. So what is the real reality ?

Explain what is the real me? Where is the evidence the details of the process, the real world , the programmer?

U r saying someone is running a super perfect program to simulate the 70, 000 thoughts I this small animal has per day and all the trillions of pixels in images I see every day and for what reason are they doing this to torture me?
The possible combinations of actions, thoughts or tests even I as a single individual can have or do results in a combinatorial explosion which has been proven to be non-computable.

The Curse of Dimensionality - Combinatorial Explosions

Combinatorial explosions occur frequently in insurance pricing. How can machine learning automation make this process easier for actuaries?

www.datarobot.com

Just a single test with just 27 factors or 27 steps would result in this combinatorial explosion:

I've read books on DNA, evolution the brain many other sciences and tech information theory etc ,. So u r saying all the trillions of details of each progressively built technology was programmed into my brain by someone and for what reason ? Why?

I can read thousands of books on electrical and mechanical engineering then all the technology that goes into making a car or airplane and you say that those thousands of books with trillions of progressively built up technology starting with the wheel are all fake and in code and data somewhere ( where exactly?) All this Just to fool me a small rat , with no glitch ever no bug in the programs.
Who would go to the trouble of programming that level of detail. Why?

You can cross check and test every level of detail of many technologies and science that proves it's real. No one can think to program in this simulation program every possible combination of tests that I could do which is a combinatorial explosion.This is how you prove what is real not through faith in what some other human says is real with no evidence to back it up as in this simulation theory or religions.

Some Examples of tests could be Arduino electronics robotics tests one can do or any engineering, looking in microscopes, telescopes etc

I'm a programmer and it's impossible to eliminate bugs.

If I go look at my microscope then I can see the ever increasing detail of the microscopic world that matches perfectly the details in any book on the cell

To me this is similar to religions but even worse: " believe what I say with no evidence and doubt your senses and tests"
Where is the evidence for any of this? Why would anyone program me a small as a animal to suffer constant thirst and hunger, to suffer from disease, old age dementia, extreme pain ,suffering grief stroke , homelessness , accidents , Injury injustice , lies , oppression, scams , depression, parasites, Lyme, cancer , and other hells why why why would someone do that ? For what reason?

Of course there is no evidence for a simulation theory but there is also no evidence that the wold is how it seems to be. And of course there is no programmer, like there is no good who created everything. The program would be self programming, like we think that evolution works. Please don´t take me to serious, these are only thought experiments.

 

[Julgran]

All we really "know" is what our senses tell us - such as touch, smell and so forth. For all we know, we could be interpreting those senses erroneously, in which case we can't even put any trust in any scientific findings for or against the simulation theory.

One purpose that there could be for us living in this simulation - if there is one - would be if the creatures that created the simulation are living somewhere in a universe of their own, but wish to travel far away from their home base, and then they created this simulation to see how life in Earth would fare, instead of actually conquering the planet. Who knows...?

 

[Sunset Limited]

Actually, this is a simulation. This is a scientific fact. For example, when light hits the retina, it turns into electrical signals. Sound is also transmitted to the brain as electrical signals. Everything we know about the outside world is actually a reinterpretation of the outside world by our brain. We have never actually seen the light itself (if it really exists). Or sound (vibrations) we have never perceived as real. When the data coming from the sense organs are converted into electrical signals, it is no longer related to reality. Everything we know is a new image of reality created in the brain. It is not possible for us to perceive the outside world objectively. The brain naturally produces subjective output. We have no objective point of reference about what is real. So this is already a simulation.

 

[demuic]

It would not matter either way to me. I still feel pain all the same and experience life all the same.

To me this topic is like asking the question "what if there was a giant invisible pink elephant that follows everyone around that can't be seen, heard, or detected in any way and has no effect on anything physically or otherwise?" What if there was? So what?

If life was a simulation, we clearly have no way of finding that out, or doing anything about it.

Life being a simulation might make for an interesting movie or thought experiment (and I don't begrudge thought experiments and generally find them interesting), but has no practical application or reason to believe it or take it particularly seriously. To do so is to basically make it a religious thought. The most logical thing to me is to just take our perceived reality as being "real" in the sense that there is no grand deceit being orchestrated by some unfalsifiable and undetectable entities.

 

[justsayin]

I would recommend checking out the meaning of the term simulation, before arguing that we live in one. Simulations don't run by themselves, but are always created and maintained by some entity in order to model something. If our universe is simulated, that means that there is at least one unsimulated universe with programmers and computers with unfathomable power. This is where science ends and religion kicks in. The lead programmer is Zeus, and control room is Olympus.

 

[kevinj430]

Who would have simulated the simulator? Sort of the like the infinite regress question of who created God. Perhaps it was inevitable that in the digital age fertile imaginations would conceive of a simulation.

A simulation creating a free thinking conscience simulation like AI possibly

I like the theory that it's a game and we're players

Of course there is no evidence for a simulation theory but there is also no evidence that the wold is how it seems to be. And of course there is no programmer, like there is no good who created everything. The program would be self programming, like we think that evolution works. Please don´t take me to serious, these are only thought experiments.

The programmers would make it impossible for us to know and change the code if that were the case

e say that like

 

[front of me]

I don't think there's a simulation. We just found it because of a genetic mutation

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I thought of Some of the same arguments to disprove god religion afterlife reincarnation soul or simulation.

A dumb brainwashed , indoctrinated small ape like me sees that nothing in this universe or life is objectively interesting or good. Why would a much superior intelligence think this evil world , with all the uninteresting stupid things be worth creating , using unfathomable resources and planning to create all this suffering and hell? there is no reason. it's an accident of chemistry.

what will matter in 200 years. 1000 years , 1 trillion years? nothing. I'm moving more toward nihilism . nothing matters . except to me extreme pain or extreme suffering. those seem real to me and i want to avoid extreme pain or extreme suffering. all else is meaningless , not important , not interesting to me .

I just arrived at this conclusion only after a little bit of thinking recently in this small dumb animal ape brain of mine full of clutter crap like addictions to make me think i have to watch yootube etc.

So why would a much more intelligent creature think all this hell in this crap world is interesting , objectively important . why would a god or programmer think I'm important or interesting? god / programmer : " oh look he's washing clothes again like he did yesterday , whoopee do i'm so glad i invested unfathomable computer resources or god resources time and energy to create this."

I'd go insane with boredom watching a human do the same dumb chores and work crap every day.

Why is an animal or a dna machine like me objectively interesting or important ? life is meaningless. i just don't want to suffer

1. there is not one iota of evidence in thousands of years of human history and hundreds of years of science in fact all science contradict those. Why are they hiding so much , ghosts god / programmer.
2. Why ? Why would a super intelligent creature even fathom creating small animals that suffer so extremely , and suffer constantly mostly eating each other alive. Why is that so good ? why is that important. I'm moving more toward nihilism . When i was younger i like most humans just reacted like a trained animal. I believe that society the media ( for example in movies) trained me to believe was true , important good. But after finally starting to think most of those things society teaches are good for example having children or that being alive is good ( life is good) non-existence is bad , 1000's of other beliefs implanted into me .... I just don't see why those are objective truths . what will matter in 200 years, 1000 years , 1 trillion years.

3. why is it so interesting important objectively good to a super intelligent being to watch small animals like humans or other animals do the same boring things every day and same boring thoughts? For example i do the same boring , tedious, arduous , same crap every day : have to get up out of bed work like demon finding clothes showering etc to get ready for work , deal with chores problems all day long , take out trash , wash dishes , grocery labor, fix things , clean everything , declutter , organize, to do lists , work a damn job to exist in this hell . who would create this for what reason ? who would think this is interesting? same thing for when humans were in the wild like other animals had to walk all day on bare feet to find an animal to kill to eat etc.

4. the amount of data energy computing power is unfathomable just to simulate even one human cell. why so much detail? you can see things are built from the ground up. atoms combined to form simple molecules . those combined to form DNA and RNA precursors.RNA then DNA molecule. simple cells. more complex cells . multicellur animals.

The number of atoms in a human cell is 100 trillion atoms. each cell is a complex machine as complex as a machine the size of city . A human has more than 30 trillion cells.