Venting Sick and tired of people and society always advocating therapy and counseling.

[TAW122]

Disclaimer: I am not saying that ALL therapy and mental health counseling or therapists, mental health professionals, or counselors are useless. There are some people that benefit greatly from them.

With that said, I am just so damn sick and tired that people who don't want to spend the time or energy to listen to others, they often just dismiss them by telling them to "seek help", "go see a therapist/counselor", "have you sought counseling", or things along those lines.

What I just don't understand is why the constant insistence and advocacy for these things for anything that isn't deemed normal? Can't people just accept that sometimes, even depression (in fact most of it) is caused by shitty life circumstances and other causes and not necessarily a mental health problem? Also, that not everyone benefits from therapy and counseling (with some people ending up in worse situations - such as saying the 'wrong' thing and getting locked up in a psych ward/forced to the hospital for an evaluation (resulting in medical bills for something that they didn't ask for, but rather coerced into.), or sometimes ending up with additional problems and becoming more depressed (or depressed if they weren't depressed to begin with).).

Are most people just ignorant and that close-minded that they would not question the status quo or even consider other narratives other than the default: "if you want to die/suicidal" or "if you are depressed" you are not thinking straight, not in the right state of mind, and you cannot be trusted to make decisions for yourself and must be forced treatment against your will?

In fact, I believe that even suspected criminals have more rights (not by much more) than a suspected suicidal, depressed patient. At least they have some due process and other civil rights (even if they are really guilty of the crime they committed) before conviction. However, the suicidal do not even have due process even though the suicidal has not broken any laws or committed any real crimes.

Please discuss.

 

[josh228]

Just think back to a time when you didnt understand depression and suicidal thoughts. What do you expect man? This shit is alien to most people. what else can they do?

 

[EternalSanction]

Most people are arguing that mental illnesses like depression are not taken seriously, instead they are rather threated like a simple cold. You're arguing the exact opposite (if I got you right) which is kinda interesting.
Tbh I don't see what's wrong with people advising therapy regarding depression. Personally, I don't think it's a light issue or something to simply brush off and overcome in a few weeks. I don't get your point exactly, how could depression be anything else but a mental health problem?

Cheers

 

[weedoge]

Most people are arguing that mental illnesses like depression are not taken seriously, instead they are rather threated like a simple cold. You're arguing the exact opposite (if I got you right) which is kinda interesting.
Tbh I don't see what's wrong with people advising therapy regarding depression. Personally, I don't think it's a light issue or something to simply brush off and overcome in a few weeks. I don't get your point exactly, how could depression be anything else but a mental health problem?

Cheers

Not sure about OP but I often hear people who say depression and other "mental health problems" are actually completely reasonable responses to situations, experiences and the world around us.

Edit: I guess it's just really a question of semantics though, I've never been one strongly for or against labels either way.

It seems to me as if OP is saying depression and these reasonable responses are separate from other forms of mental illness. That one can be depressed and suicidal without these feelings being considered irrational and surely therefore and illness.

I'm tired as fuck anyway sorry if I misunderstood the op or anything

 

[weedoge]

Disclaimer: I am not saying that ALL therapy and mental health counseling or therapists, mental health professionals, or counselors are useless. There are some people that benefit greatly from them.

With that said, I am just so damn sick and tired that people who don't want to spend the time or energy to listen to others, they often just dismiss them by telling them to "seek help", "go see a therapist/counselor", "have you sought counseling", or things along those lines.

What I just don't understand is why the constant insistence and advocacy for these things for anything that isn't deemed normal? Can't people just accept that sometimes, even depression (in fact most of it) is caused by shitty life circumstances and other causes and not necessarily a mental health problem? Also, that not everyone benefits from therapy and counseling (with some people ending up in worse situations - such as saying the 'wrong' thing and getting locked up in a psych ward/forced to the hospital for an evaluation (resulting in medical bills for something that they didn't ask for, but rather coerced into.), or sometimes ending up with additional problems and becoming more depressed (or depressed if they weren't depressed to begin with).).

Are most people just ignorant and that close-minded that they would not question the status quo or even consider other narratives other than the default: "if you want to die/suicidal" or "if you are depressed" you are not thinking straight, not in the right state of mind, and you cannot be trusted to make decisions for yourself and must be forced treatment against your will?

In fact, I believe that even suspected criminals have more rights (not by much more) than a suspected suicidal, depressed patient. At least they have some due process and other civil rights (even if they are really guilty of the crime they committed) before conviction. However, the suicidal do not even have due process even though the suicidal has not broken any laws or committed any real crimes.

Please discuss.

I'm very curious how a suicidal person would be treated if they behaved almost like some sort of prisoner. For example if they kept a stone face during a hospital stay, maintained during the stay that they would not participate in treatment as they weren't suffering from a mental illness or some type of thought disorder, said they would stay voluntarily until they were deemed safe to leave and maybe/maybe not didn't mention their intentions to complete their plan but during one-on-one therapies very passionately and calmly put across their views on their suicide and their right to die. I feel like there is a certain way to approach it that, at least in the legit places that are run by the book, you could get around any forced treatment.

Something I find slightly relevant or not is a lady who made up her entire own religion and claims to be able to channel her own god, some sort of mystical ram or goat figure, she has a bit of a cult following and truly believes these things to be true. Yet due to her attitude and demeanour I assume, she's not being treated for being a loon.

 

[EternalSanction]

Not sure about OP but I often hear people who say depression and other "mental health problems" are actually completely reasonable responses to situations, experiences and the world around us.

Edit: I guess it's just really a question of semantics though, I've never been one strongly for or against labels either way.

It seems to me as if OP is saying depression and these reasonable responses are separate from other forms of mental illness. That one can be depressed and suicidal without these feelings being considered irrational and surely therefore and illness.

I'm tired as fuck anyway sorry if I misunderstood the op or anything

Alright, thanks for the interpretation.
While I agree that causes for depression are indeed rational most of the times, I'd still consider it to be a mental illness. But like you said, it's rather a question of semantics plus the way our society defines anomalies / illnesses for that matter.

 

[Mr2005]

Something I find slightly relevant or not is a lady who made up her entire own religion and claims to be able to channel her own god, some sort of mystical ram or goat figure, she has a bit of a cult following and truly believes these things to be true. Yet due to her attitude and demeanour I assume, she's not being treated for being a loon.

JZ Knight, founder of Ramthas school of enlightenment. I went there

 

[GeorgeEastman]

Are most people just ignorant and that close-minded that they would not question the status quo or even consider other narratives other than the default: "if you want to die/suicidal" or "if you are depressed" you are not thinking straight, not in the right state of mind, and you cannot be trusted to make decisions for yourself and must be forced treatment against your will?

They're scared that you're right.

You have to prove to normal people that you have serious differences that are not contagious. Once they understand that and realize they're safe, they become all right with your wanting to die.

 

[Shewaitsforme]

I'm very curious how a suicidal person would be treated if they behaved almost like some sort of prisoner. For example if they kept a stone face during a hospital stay, maintained during the stay that they would not participate in treatment as they weren't suffering from a mental illness or some type of thought disorder, said they would stay voluntarily until they were deemed safe to leave and maybe/maybe not didn't mention their intentions to complete their plan but during one-on-one therapies very passionately and calmly put across their views on their suicide and their right to die. I feel like there is a certain way to approach it that, at least in the legit places that are run by the book, you could get around any forced treatment.

Something I find slightly relevant or not is a lady who made up her entire own religion and claims to be able to channel her own god, some sort of mystical ram or goat figure, she has a bit of a cult following and truly believes these things to be true. Yet due to her attitude and demeanour I assume, she's not being treated for being a loon.

This is me to the letter, i have a straight face most the time due to lack of emotion and dont really engage. Therefore ive been told today that unless i start to open up ill be here for a good while longer. Im scared to open up the flood gates because always at the end of talking sessions i feel worse and want to really hurt myself. I asked the consultant today if im sick, a few weeks back he said i dont have a mental health problem and today he said i potentially have a mental health problem. Ive always had the ability to shut off my feelings to defend myself and for some reason i jist cant open up instead i choose to push my body hoping eventually it will give up.

 

[weedoge]

This is me to the letter, i have a straight face most the time due to lack of emotion and dont really engage. Therefore ive been told today that unless i start to open up ill be here for a good while longer. Im scared to open up the flood gates because always at the end of talking sessions i feel worse and want to really hurt myself. I asked the consultant today if im sick, a few weeks back he said i dont have a mental health problem and today he said i potentially have a mental health problem. Ive always had the ability to shut off my feelings to defend myself and for some reason i jist cant open up instead i choose to push my body hoping eventually it will give up.

YES. Yes... I was told I showed no symptoms of depression after a week in hospital because I'm so fucking good at faking normalcy even though the guy who admitted me told me to my face that I was "very depressed". They gave me no real therapy or anything so I had no incentive* to let it all out, although they seemed to ignore the sobbing I did throughout the week. Other professionals have told me different things over the years too. Psychs are a mess honestly.

 

[Mr2005]

They don't have a clue but are too proud to admit it. Mine told me I wasn't depressed when I was in there. I kept my chin up as best I could what else was I going to do?

 

[bigj75]

They don't have a clue but are too proud to admit it. Mine told me I wasn't depressed when I was in there. I kept my chin up as best I could what else was I going to do?

that's the thing shrinks don't understand and if they didn't pretend to understand then no one would go to someone who doesn't understand.

 

[Mr2005]

Which makes them con artists. I trust my doctor more because if he doesn't know he doesn't pretend to. I like that lack of pretense

 

[bigj75]

Which makes them con artists. I trust my doctor more because if he doesn't know he doesn't pretend to. I like that lack of pretense

same. My depression was related to health/dietary issues so I saw a nutritionist. Got way more help that way than a therapist ever gave me.

 

[Mr2005]

So you doing ok?

 

[Shewaitsforme]

YES. Yes... I was told I showed no symptoms of depression after a week in hospital because I'm so fucking good at faking normalcy even though the guy who admitted me told me to my face that I was "very depressed". They gave me no real therapy or anything so I had no incentive* to let it all out, although they seemed to ignore the sobbing I did throughout the week. Other professionals have told me different things over the years too. Psychs are a mess honestly.

Yep too depressed it doesnt even register anymore. Yeah i cry too but for seconds than thays it no more tears. Ive been in hospital over a month in total now, no diagnosis, no medication im just here because im a 'risk to myself' i told the consultant today not everyone fits into the mental health categories, i have full capacity, my full independence cleaning, washing, feeding etc, im choosing to leave this life but that does not mean i have a mental health problem

 

[weedoge]

Yep too depressed it doesnt even register anymore. Yeah i cry too but for seconds than thays it no more tears. Ive been in hospital over a month in total now, no diagnosis, no medication im just here because im a 'risk to myself' i told the consultant today not everyone fits into the mental health categories, i have full capacity, my full independence cleaning, washing, feeding etc, im choosing to leave this life but that does not mean i have a mental health problem

Hey I'm really sorry sounds like a shit time and I can relate hard, I hope you get out of that place soon. Are you there voluntarily? Maybe you can push to get discharged soon. best of luck

 

[alizee]

Therapists, psychiatrists, counselors are all just faith healers. Taking advantage of the people that want to believe whatever comes out of the "professionals" mouth. Everyone is socially conditioned to fall victim to it. Society chooses in spending resources on this method because it's similar to how religions had faith healers take advantage of people in believing whatever is interpreted to the masses by the leaders and its been shown to statistically work on everyday persons.

You cannot expect anything better when most people look at their life with irrational thoughts of having choice or commonly known as "free will" and without any scientific backing evidence. Science has been historically showing the world is deterministic, everything observable has a reason for a reaction. Humans start from birth being born into a family, "the one deciding factor in life" to who they will become by all the variables & events factoring from the previous and until death.

Basically you have to find the real variable needed to succeed or realize it wasn't meant to be and end it. Mainstream will never allow themselves to think some are destined to not succeed because it terrifies most people.

 

[bigj75]

Therapists, psychiatrists, counselors are all just faith healers. Taking advantage of the people that want to believe whatever comes out of the "professionals" mouth. Everyone is socially conditioned to fall victim to it. Society chooses in spending resources on this method because it's similar to how religions had faith healers take advantage of people in believing whatever is interpreted to the masses by the leaders and its been shown to statistically work on everyday persons.

You cannot expect anything better when most people look at their life with irrational thoughts of having choice or commonly known as "free will" and without any scientific backing evidence. Science has been historically showing the world is deterministic, everything observable has a reason for a reaction. Humans start from birth being born into a family, "the one deciding factor in life" to who they will become by all the variables & events factoring from the previous and until death.

Damn good post. It blows my mind how people think there is free will to the extent that everything that happened in your past can be forgotten about and you should move on and be a man and not let it effect you.

 

[alizee]

Damn good post. It blows my mind how people think there is free will to the extent that everything that happened in your past can be forgotten about and you should move on and be a man and not let it effect you.

Thank you, I always wonder how I broke through the socially conditioning to see it.
I wonder if it was an additional curse to my pain or some type of enlightenment by seeing the truth of madness around me in how society functions. How about you?

 

[Mr2005]

Being an outsider perhaps?

 

[bigj75]

Thank you, I always wonder how I broke through the socially conditioning to see it.
I wonder if it was an additional curse to my pain or some type of enlightenment by seeing the truth of madness around me in how society functions. How about you?

I question the exact same thing. I've studied psychology for years so I find myself in just awe of the ignorance and insanity in society and to realize I was conditioned like that myself as a child. I feel so alienated and detached from people now because I can't bring myself to believe the social conditioning anymore.

Reminds me of that quote that "is it better to live life in a blissful lie or a bitter truth?"

 

[Jaded]

, i have full capacity, my full independence cleaning, washing, feeding etc, im choosing to leave this life but that does not mean i have a mental health problem

I totally respect your opinion but I don't think you should say that while being held in hospital.
Surprised how they can keep you so long for nothing major though.

 

[wanttodie]

Disclaimer: I am not saying that ALL therapy and mental health counseling or therapists, mental health professionals, or counselors are useless. There are some people that benefit greatly from them.

With that said, I am just so damn sick and tired that people who don't want to spend the time or energy to listen to others, they often just dismiss them by telling them to "seek help", "go see a therapist/counselor", "have you sought counseling", or things along those lines.

What I just don't understand is why the constant insistence and advocacy for these things for anything that isn't deemed normal? Can't people just accept that sometimes, even depression (in fact most of it) is caused by shitty life circumstances and other causes and not necessarily a mental health problem? Also, that not everyone benefits from therapy and counseling (with some people ending up in worse situations - such as saying the 'wrong' thing and getting locked up in a psych ward/forced to the hospital for an evaluation (resulting in medical bills for something that they didn't ask for, but rather coerced into.), or sometimes ending up with additional problems and becoming more depressed (or depressed if they weren't depressed to begin with).).

Are most people just ignorant and that close-minded that they would not question the status quo or even consider other narratives other than the default: "if you want to die/suicidal" or "if you are depressed" you are not thinking straight, not in the right state of mind, and you cannot be trusted to make decisions for yourself and must be forced treatment against your will?

In fact, I believe that even suspected criminals have more rights (not by much more) than a suspected suicidal, depressed patient. At least they have some due process and other civil rights (even if they are really guilty of the crime they committed) before conviction. However, the suicidal do not even have due process even though the suicidal has not broken any laws or committed any real crimes.

Please discuss.

agree

 

[Shewaitsforme]

I totally respect your opinion but I don't think you should say that while being held in hospital.
Surprised how they can keep you so long for nothing major though.

Because i expressed wanting to die, im here for my own safety they tell me and they have a duty of care. Ive had a recent bereavment. Thats all, no medication, no self harm.

 

[Shewaitsforme]

Hey I'm really sorry sounds like a shit time and I can relate hard, I hope you get out of that place soon. Are you there voluntarily? Maybe you can push to get discharged soon. best of luck

I was voluntary and asked to be discharged, bad move as they slapped a section 2 on me. I was discharged and failed to attend an appointment id said i wasnt going to as i dont find talking therapies effective. Again they gave me the options but i said i couldnt come in because there was noone to look after my 10month old kitten this time, straight away she replied voluntary is off the table its ambulance or police under section 2 again. Luckily they went back to my flat and took the kitten to a cattery and they will pay till im discharged.

 

[ctoan]

im currently at a dayclinic and honestly its a joke

im socially isolated, my "career" will lead to nothing and i have a few health concerns.

their advice: socialise more, get some friends. accept that career isnt that important.


wow groundbreaking. couldnt have figured that out on my own


what really pisses me off is they fake behavior, like they have this special sound in their voice, that probably should display conpassion or sth, like that isnt just another 8 to 5 job for them. like im retarded or sth and wouldnt notice that


its a waste of time and money really

i have better effects when i go out for a walk/drive with a bicycle around/do any form of physical exercise 30min everyday

 

[TAW122]

I just wanted to say that my reason for making this thread was partly venting due to how for every problem, people in society always spew, parade, or parrot off seeking therapy or counseling like it's some cure-all for all the problems. It isn't and in reality, it can be worse for others and at best, it does little or anything to help. It's just a big waste of time and money. I'd rather go do something I'd enjoy or spend time and money on things that I care about that will bring fulfillment for me rather than to waste time and money on therapy/counseling. Then on top of that, just saying the wrong words or things can result in really bad consequences.

Also, my other reason for writing about all this is wanting to see if others' share my view or if there was really any answers to this.

Now, responding to others' comments and questions.

It seems to me as if OP is saying depression and these reasonable responses are separate from other forms of mental illness. That one can be depressed and suicidal without these feelings being considered irrational and surely therefore and illness.

Yes, you pretty much summed it up. To add to that, I would say the majority of people suffering from depression aren't really suffering from mental illness, but rather the circumstances that they experience and face in life.

Which makes them con artists. I trust my doctor more because if he doesn't know he doesn't pretend to. I like that lack of pretense

This is why I trust physical doctors more than psychological doctors as they have observable and measurable metrics to determine a problem, and their science is grounded in hard, physical science rather than pseudoscience (not saying that all psychiatry is false, but I feel like a lot are overexaggerated and/or have poor evidence, reasoning to back up their claims and findings).

Therapists, psychiatrists, counselors are all just faith healers. Taking advantage of the people that want to believe whatever comes out of the "professionals" mouth. Everyone is socially conditioned to fall victim to it. Society chooses in spending resources on this method because it's similar to how religions had faith healers take advantage of people in believing whatever is interpreted to the masses by the leaders and its been shown to statistically work on everyday persons.

You cannot expect anything better when most people look at their life with irrational thoughts of having choice or commonly known as "free will" and without any scientific backing evidence. Science has been historically showing the world is deterministic, everything observable has a reason for a reaction. Humans start from birth being born into a family, "the one deciding factor in life" to who they will become by all the variables & events factoring from the previous and until death.

Basically you have to find the real variable needed to succeed or realize it wasn't meant to be and end it. Mainstream will never allow themselves to think some are destined to not succeed because it terrifies most people.

Excellent post, really explains why most people just don't want to accept reality or come to terms, even if they know that they aren't being reasonable.

@Shewaitsforme I am assuming this is in the UK or is it in the US? I know that in the US the fallout is even worse in that the patient would then be responsible for medical bills for something he/she never asked for (but rather coerced/forced into), then on top of that, a blemish in one's background check/medical records, which will affect certain rights and professions, careers, etc. Anyways, I hope things work out and that you are able to avoid being forced against your will because more often than not, hospitalization has done more harm for the mindfully suicidal than the impulsive ones.

@ctoan I've had similar experiences before when I went to psychotherapy in the past, when I was a child, teenager, and while I was in college. I felt that I had way more success and got much farther doing the things I want, having some people who really care and give real advice to the problems I face rather than sitting in a room talking to some pseudo-doctor who (pretends to) listen to my problems, offer no real solution, and just treat me like another number.

It does really sadden me how these people keep trying to get you or I or others back into their sessions or try to make an problem out of a non-problem, and waste time while at the worst, having the power to jeopardize your or my freedom (if they suspect one is a danger or something like that - and being able to get the authorities on the patient.)