Discussion Should we ever rejoice at death or glorify death?

[EBEN30]

OK so I think I might get a little bit of backlash for this but let me try and see if I can word this correctly.

After viewing some posts on the forum, I see there's a number of people that seem to encourage death and glorify it, not so overtly that it's obvious but just subtle comments here and there.

Now I'm a stern believer in everyone has the right to take their life as and when they choose, it's a human right, nobody can control you except you, you have the right and power over your own body and mind.

That being said, I also believe life should be celebrated and rejoiced where possible. Granted, who am I to say someone's suffering does not warrant them to end their life, I get that not all people can have an 'enjoyable life' I suppose I just feel uneasy about actively encouraging suicide and saying 'go for it' or 'good luck, have a peaceful death' these kind of things.

Personally, I like to always tell people I hope they find the closure or solution that is right for them.

Where possible I will always try and get people to hang in there unless they specifically ask for that not to be done, I'm talking about in real life situations here and not over the internet. I'll always encourage the person to go on where possible and if they've asked for me not to do that or they're determined that they want to, I simply tell them that I hope they find the peace and closure they are looking for.

Now I totally understand my view and opinion isn't more 'right' than anyone else's in this matter.

I just find myself feeling very unsettled if I embrace and encourage death. I understand there are times when death should be embraced and not viewed at so 'negatively' the thought that anyone is out of the pain they experience in life, whether physical or mental, is something to find comfort in. That being said, I think to glorify death and just see it all as indifferent makes me feel like I'm losing a little bit of my 'humanity'.

I guess I'm conflicted, death isn't all doom and gloom but equally it can't be all of the opposite end of the stick either, all happiness, rainbows and butterflies. I still find it incredibly sad when someone chooses to ctb but part of me knows this is hypocritical of me in ways, I just can't help feeling the way I do.

 

[NOT]

Yes we glorify life, and death as a part of life, not as oposite to life.

 

[Johnnythefox]

I just feel uneasy about actively encouraging suicide and saying 'go for it'

It does say in the rules not to encourage, besides being good advice, encouraging could also land you in trouble.

 

[EBEN30]

It does say in the rules not to encourage, besides being good advice, encouraging could also land you in trouble.
View attachment 10830

I'm aware of this, I still think there are some subtle signs there from a lot of people though.

I get the impression from a lot of posts I see that some people really do glorify death. Of course that could be me reading too much into things, I suppose being on a pro-choice community like this will start to make you naturally feel that way after time when in fact that might not be the reality of the situation.

 

[discokicks]

I'm only here because I feel I've exhausted all other options. I have a wonderful family and I am distraught by the thought of hurting them. This is not an easy decision to make by any means. Before everything started going bad I had many happy events happen to me. Over the next few weeks, when I receive my stuff, I'm going to be making a book of the good and the bad. I will also be seeing my family. I am not 100 percent on it. I am basically just in a place of suffering and I'm tired of it day after day and want it to end. Anyway, life has its good points for sure. Just unfortunately for me they are few and far between these days

 

[SomebodyBroken]

I'm aware of this, I still think there are some subtle signs there from a lot of people though.

I get the impression from a lot of posts I see that some people really do glorify death. Of course that could be me reading too much into things, I suppose being on a pro-choice community like this will start to make you naturally feel that way after time when in fact that might not be the reality of the situation.

strange behavior you have. come to a forum dedicated to a specific topic and be dissatisfied with something? what is your problem? there is life, there is death. we only want peace (eternal) in our lives.

 

[Jen Erik]

I'm aware of this, I still think there are some subtle signs there from a lot of people though.

What are some examples of this?

 

[JoeFailure]

OK so I think I might get a little bit of backlash for this but let me try and see if I can word this correctly.

After viewing some posts on the forum, I see there's a number of people that seem to encourage death and glorify it, not so overtly that it's obvious but just subtle comments here and there.

Now I'm a stern believer in everyone has the right to take their life as and when they choose, it's a human right, nobody can control you except you, you have the right and power over your own body and mind.

That being said, I also believe life should be celebrated and rejoiced where possible. Granted, who am I to say someone's suffering does not warrant them to end their life, I get that not all people can have an 'enjoyable life' I suppose I just feel uneasy about actively encouraging suicide and saying 'go for it' or 'good luck, have a peaceful death' these kind of things.

Personally, I like to always tell people I hope they find the closure or solution that is right for them.

Where possible I will always try and get people to hang in there unless they specifically ask for that not to be done, I'm talking about in real life situations here and not over the internet. I'll always encourage the person to go on where possible and if they've asked for me not to do that or they're determined that they want to, I simply tell them that I hope they find the peace and closure they are looking for.

Now I totally understand my view and opinion isn't more 'right' than anyone else's in this matter.

I just find myself feeling very unsettled if I embrace and encourage death. I understand there are times when death should be embraced and not viewed at so 'negatively' the thought that anyone is out of the pain they experience in life, whether physical or mental, is something to find comfort in. That being said, I think to glorify death and just see it all as indifferent makes me feel like I'm losing a little bit of my 'humanity'.

I guess I'm conflicted, death isn't all doom and gloom but equally it can't be all of the opposite end of the stick either, all happiness, rainbows and butterflies. I still find it incredibly sad when someone chooses to ctb but part of me knows this is hypocritical of me in ways, I just can't help feeling the way I do.

I think there's a line for both. I've only been here for a short time but I have seen where it sounds like people are unsure and for me it's not about ultimately telling them not to do it, but rather to make sure they're totally sure and that they should take their time with it. It sounds like that's your viewpoint too, and I don't think it's trivial in any way, I think it's practical. I do think most people here align with that too, and I have seen many times where people advise that if there is any kind of hope that the person should hang in there because there is no coming back.

On the flip side, I do think people here are accepting of someone's decision and wants them to be able to accomplish it in as peaceful a way as possible. There probably are some who "glorify" death but I think you really have to try to put yourself in their shoes to understand that. I've had some mental health issues around sexual abuse but am fortunate enough to be physically healthy, I know a lot of people here are suffering from physical health or even both, and I can understand the glorification of death in those circumstances because they truly never got a fair shake at life.

Ultimately I just hope everything turns out well for everyone, no matter what they choose. Nobody deserves to suffer. Everyone deserves peace. I hope everyone can attempt to exhaust all options while here. Most days lately I'm just barely hanging on by a thread and it's miserable, but I don't want to go out without trying. I don't know how many of these agonizing days I can take, but I'm still breathing I guess.

 

[JJ-NOHOPE]

I don't think people are glorifying death or life.

This is a prochoice website. We are not here to judge people one way or another. I have seen people very supportive on both sides.

I have cried more than once when one of my favorites has decided it's their time to die. I have also rejoiced when someone decides to take another try at life.

Try no judgment. That's what we are all about.

 

[Johnnythefox]

This is a prochoice website

This! 10 out of 10.

 

[EBEN30]

I don't think people are glorifying death or life.

This is a prochoice website. We are not here to judge people one way or another. I have seen people very supportive on both sides.

I have cried more than once when one of my favorites has decided it's their time to die. I have also rejoiced when someone decides to take another try at life.

Try no judgment. That's what we are all about.

As I said before in my previous post, I am very pro choice myself, I wouldn't be here if I wasn't and you can see from my post history.

I do think people lean one way or the other though subtly or subconsciously. It's human nature people will hold a bias even if it's a slight one. I'm just being open and honest with my feelings.

There's no judgement from me and I've never judged anyone, each to their own, if me saying death isn't something I can always be joyous about there is always an element of sadness in death and to diminish that is to diminish our humanity in someway.

I have cried and rejoiced too. I knew I'd get backlash regardless posting this so I'm not surprised I'm just surprised other's don't see the subtle views that lean towards glorifying / rejoicing in death on here.

 

[Jean Améry]

OK so I think I might get a little bit of backlash for this but let me try and see if I can word this correctly.

After viewing some posts on the forum, I see there's a number of people that seem to encourage death and glorify it, not so overtly that it's obvious but just subtle comments here and there.

Now I'm a stern believer in everyone has the right to take their life as and when they choose, it's a human right, nobody can control you except you, you have the right and power over your own body and mind.

That being said, I also believe life should be celebrated and rejoiced where possible. Granted, who am I to say someone's suffering does not warrant them to end their life, I get that not all people can have an 'enjoyable life' I suppose I just feel uneasy about actively encouraging suicide and saying 'go for it' or 'good luck, have a peaceful death' these kind of things.

Personally, I like to always tell people I hope they find the closure or solution that is right for them.

Where possible I will always try and get people to hang in there unless they specifically ask for that not to be done, I'm talking about in real life situations here and not over the internet. I'll always encourage the person to go on where possible and if they've asked for me not to do that or they're determined that they want to, I simply tell them that I hope they find the peace and closure they are looking for.

Now I totally understand my view and opinion isn't more 'right' than anyone else's in this matter.

I just find myself feeling very unsettled if I embrace and encourage death. I understand there are times when death should be embraced and not viewed at so 'negatively' the thought that anyone is out of the pain they experience in life, whether physical or mental, is something to find comfort in. That being said, I think to glorify death and just see it all as indifferent makes me feel like I'm losing a little bit of my 'humanity'.

I guess I'm conflicted, death isn't all doom and gloom but equally it can't be all of the opposite end of the stick either, all happiness, rainbows and butterflies. I still find it incredibly sad when someone chooses to ctb but part of me knows this is hypocritical of me in ways, I just can't help feeling the way I do.

So you claim to have observed encouragement to suicide yet this wasn't obvious and thereby you acknowledge it's just your personal, subjective opinion. You provide no examples of this whatsoever making your claims highly suspect.

You also confound encouragement to suicide (which is against the rules and rightly so) and glorification of death (which is not against the rules). What is your point exactly? To make those who view death as a solution and suicide as a courageous act feel guilty about it? To silence them?

I don't see how anyone can be suicidal and not view death as an end to their problems which in my book is a good thing (an end to suffering). If expressing this opinion amounts to encouragement to suicide this site has lost its purpose and has in effect become pro life.

Why should life be 'celebrated' when it's full of pain and misery? My guess would be anyone who ends up here (in so far as they're not pro-lifers or seek morbid entertainment) does not have much to 'celebrate' and might take offence at such a cheerful, baseless glorification of life and condemnation of assigning a positive value to death.

Whoever claims death is all happiness, rainbows etcetera? I have never read something like this here, it seems like a strawman to me and in any case it would be rather stupid as the only way death can bring positive happiness (as opposed to a mere cessation of pain) is if one would somehow lives on after one's physical death and enter a different, happier plane of existence. I find this highly speculative to say the least.

To be alive means nothing: it's the content and the quality of life that matters. If pain outweighs joy in life then that life has in effect become not worth living.

If you think a member is encouraging others to kill themselves report him or her. Otherwise keep your moralistic, vague, completely unclear ('some', 'a number of posts', 'not so overtly'...) accusations reeking of a pro-life conviction (which is anything but subtle I might add) to yourself.

Next time you read anything you object to at least have the courage to voice that objection in concreto instead of making a thread like this which is so commonplace, condescending, judgemental and non-specific it could have been writtten by anyone outside of this community who has no real connection to what this forum is about. A place that offers the opportunity to openly and freely discuss suicide without moral condemnation and places the highest value on individual liberty: both in freedom of expression and self-determination.

It's downright incomprehensible that you claim to support the right to die yet you have a problem with people expressing their feelings towards and convictions about death aslong as they're not neutral or negative.

Nobody who feels happy and sees death as a purely negative event will die by their own hand. Nor will they end up here.

How is wishing someone succes in a course of action they chose or god forbid wishing them a peaceful end 'actively encouraging suicide'? I think it's become quite clear why are here. This stinks of suicide prevention. You're accusing people of breaking the rules while the examples you provided entail no violation at all except for 'go for it'. Who said this when and in what context?

A truly humanistic outlook rests on the dignity of man, his responsibility and his freedom. Both to live a good, meaningful life and die a dignified, good death. Not on living on in any circumstance. Of course you only view it from the perspective of your own ego and the feelings the decisions and opinions of others invoke in you. If you're not suicidal or open to the notion that death can be a good thing that's fine but don't try to force your opinions on others by implying rules were broken when that isn't the case.

 

[EBEN30]

strange behavior you have. come to a forum dedicated to a specific topic and be dissatisfied with something? what is your problem? there is life, there is death. we only want peace (eternal) in our lives.

My problem there isn't one, your stifling healthy discussion, not once have I been abusive, rude or broken the rules of the community.

I simply aired my feelings and clearly from your post that has upset you, I ask you to examine your own subtle biased that you may not be aware of and ask yourself why you have become so upset I simply expressed my opinion that clearly differs from your own.

This is exactly what I mean by subtle bias I am VERY pro choice and I totally get and understand why people choose to do this and do not condemn or judge anyone who chooses to do this.

It doesn't have to be black or white, just because this is a pro-choice community doesn't mean I can't feel sadness when someone chooses to end their life. Just because it's a pro-choice website doesn't mean that I can't have an opinion that differs from yours. What would you rather, I keep my mouth shut and go with the status quo, by doing so that is a subtle bias of not wanting anyone to rock the boat.

Saying that people only want 'peace eternal' in their lives is making assumptions about my views and opinions that I haven't expressed. It's also making assumptions why people choose to end their own life, for some yes there will be an element of seeking peace eternal for others there will be other reasons entirely.

 

[VikingWinger]

We glorify whatever the person feel is necessary, as long as it doesn't involve hurting anyone.

 

[Righttodie]

I'm only here because I feel I've exhausted all other options. I have a wonderful family and I am distraught by the thought of hurting them. This is not an easy decision to make by any means. Before everything started going bad I had many happy events happen to me. Over the next few weeks, when I receive my stuff, I'm going to be making a book of the good and the bad. I will also be seeing my family. I am not 100 percent on it. I am basically just in a place of suffering and I'm tired of it day after day and want it to end. Anyway, life has its good points for sure. Just unfortunately for me they are few and far between these days

Same. Except the part about having a family. I am alone. I live with them, but not part of each other's lives

 

[Mircea]

Death is one of the things I hate most about this world. In the sense that in an ideal place, I believe it should only be an option, not something that can happen randomly to anyone for any reason.

At the same time, in a world as bad as this, it's also a necessity. Most of us are here because we believe no one should be trapped in such a place and forced to live a horrible life, caused by bad events or the ignorance of other people around us.

So I don't glorify or support it, that goes against what I believe. But I well understand that sadly, it's a necessity in some extreme cases.