Not having children is a religious value to me. I don't think life is worth living and I don't want to bring more people to life. Also, I don't want to pass my depressive shit genes to anyone.
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I'm kind of going towards antinatalism in general because of climate change and overpopulation.
Plankter
欠陥人
- Aug 14, 2018
- 174
Well nobody should have children really
Dead beat dad
Enlightened
- Mar 5, 2019
- 1,030
Funny how you need a license to get married, own a TV, drive a car... But procreation can be done indiscriminately with no testing... But like some forms of gun ownership...
I agree that nobody should have children at this point, but it is specially true for depressive/bipolar people.
Alchemist
Warlock
- Apr 3, 2019
- 709
I don't even see the logic in doing it. "Life is nothing but sadness and being miserable since I was forced to be alive, maybe I should pop one more person to be just as miserable as I am".
EddieAllenPoe
Specialist
- Mar 19, 2019
- 304
I think it's nonsense to believe you shouldn't have children because of "depressed" or "bipolar" genes. It's not that simple to just say a disease exists because of bad genes. There are often unforseen advantages to things we label as a disease. Simply eliminating them from the gene pool wouldn't make the world magically better. It could make things worse. Schizophrenia, for example, is often linked to families with high levels of creativity.
Should you have children? That's a different question. I tend to think we are becoming a little overpopulated. Who am I to judge if that's true, though? There's plenty of unused space in the universe we haven't used yet. I don't see how it's supposed to get better, but that doesn't mean it couldn't. Fortunately, it doesn't matter much what I think.
Should you have children? That's a different question. I tend to think we are becoming a little overpopulated. Who am I to judge if that's true, though? There's plenty of unused space in the universe we haven't used yet. I don't see how it's supposed to get better, but that doesn't mean it couldn't. Fortunately, it doesn't matter much what I think.
Thats exactly what I think.
And it makes harder the decision to ctb too. When you have no children, you have noone you are responsible for.
throwaway777
一人、部屋で、独り。
- Oct 3, 2018
- 641
Misanthrope
Mage
- Oct 23, 2018
- 557
This question is very broad. If a person is severely depressed and considering children at that moment that does not seem wise personally. Especially if having a child is viewed as panacea out of depression. Regardless of my opinion though I would have no right to interfere and nor should the government. Nor would I shame them for their decision like they are the most vile immoral being on the planet. Besides, shaming people out of presumed immoral behaviour does not work and is more likely to backfire.
I also don't hold the view that because you have any sort of genetic defect you should use that to inform policy and deny the right to have children because of the potential risk. I also don't view depression as solely a genetic or chemical thing either in the first place. So I am even less inclined to want to refuse a person their right to choose on that basis. I am pretty averse to the government being given the power to continue to erode my choices on the pretext of a greater good especially on something as fundamental and part of core biology as having children. What criteria would they use? Would wealth be a measure? Would disability be a measure? Do you trust financial incentive to not skew things? Can you appeal? Do you even trust your government? I sure as fuck don't, no even to fill potholes effectively.
This type of thinking has resulted in some pretty awful things in the interests of a 'greater good.' For the most part, resulting in human rights violations and other unintended deeply alarming consequences. I am not just talking about Nazi eugenics either but much more recent attempts to control population. Like India's state of emergency and China's one-child policy.
There are better methods of reducing birth rates. That don't involve your government potentially violating your human rights, kicking your door in and forcing unwanted medical procedures on you, disregarding your personal choices for some apparent greater good.
Better methods consist of education and lifting people out of poverty. The correlation between reduced poverty and lower fertility rates is well established. You can examine in detail why that turns out to be the case here.
ourworldindata.org
If people want to perpetuate the species that is none of my business at the end of the day. How depressed they are is equally irrelevant. The closest I come to antinatalism was choosing to not roll the dice on producing an offspring that may well have to suffer through bipolar like me. With flawed mental health systems and a judgmental society. This was a devastating conversation to have with my fiance at the time. It is also pretty grim to watch children being vilified for leaving school to protest climate change. What a sad world they are set to inherit at this idiotic rate. Infinite growth on a finite planet can only lead to self cannibalization at some point.
I also don't hold the view that because you have any sort of genetic defect you should use that to inform policy and deny the right to have children because of the potential risk. I also don't view depression as solely a genetic or chemical thing either in the first place. So I am even less inclined to want to refuse a person their right to choose on that basis. I am pretty averse to the government being given the power to continue to erode my choices on the pretext of a greater good especially on something as fundamental and part of core biology as having children. What criteria would they use? Would wealth be a measure? Would disability be a measure? Do you trust financial incentive to not skew things? Can you appeal? Do you even trust your government? I sure as fuck don't, no even to fill potholes effectively.
This type of thinking has resulted in some pretty awful things in the interests of a 'greater good.' For the most part, resulting in human rights violations and other unintended deeply alarming consequences. I am not just talking about Nazi eugenics either but much more recent attempts to control population. Like India's state of emergency and China's one-child policy.
There are better methods of reducing birth rates. That don't involve your government potentially violating your human rights, kicking your door in and forcing unwanted medical procedures on you, disregarding your personal choices for some apparent greater good.
Better methods consist of education and lifting people out of poverty. The correlation between reduced poverty and lower fertility rates is well established. You can examine in detail why that turns out to be the case here.
Fertility Rate
How does the number of children vary across the world and over time? What is driving the rapid global change?
ourworldindata.org
If people want to perpetuate the species that is none of my business at the end of the day. How depressed they are is equally irrelevant. The closest I come to antinatalism was choosing to not roll the dice on producing an offspring that may well have to suffer through bipolar like me. With flawed mental health systems and a judgmental society. This was a devastating conversation to have with my fiance at the time. It is also pretty grim to watch children being vilified for leaving school to protest climate change. What a sad world they are set to inherit at this idiotic rate. Infinite growth on a finite planet can only lead to self cannibalization at some point.
lululoo
Mage
- Dec 15, 2018
- 558
I am not speaking to government policies here, just to what I consider right or wrong: I think depressed people should not have children. They are likely to pass it on through the way they raise their kids and/or their genes. It's just not fair to the kids. Both my parents were depressed, and one of them expressed it through violent anger, criticism and shaming (granted, he was also a narcissist and had many other issues). I have been suicidally depressed since I was 14. I think the norms around this should change. People with serious mental or physical health issues should not be encouraged to reproduce and told that kids will solve their problems or that the kid will be okay despite their issues. It's a gamble. A resilient kid may be okay, but a non-resilient kid (like me) is fucked.
FreeSisyphus
Automaton
- Nov 2, 2018
- 5
I can't speak for everyone else who is depressed, but I for one have no intention of gambling with the life of a child. Even as someone who was born relatively privileged in the grand scheme of things, I still came to the conclusion that I never should have been born. The idea that I would potentially put someone else through the horror that I've been through, the years of mind-numbing self-hatred, misanthropy, boredom, apathy, chronic fatigue, and anhedonia that have defined most of my adult life is too much for me to bear.
Unfortunately for me this is highly likely: I have a multigenerational history of depression and narcissistic personality disorder in my family, so the likelihood of my child ending up with such a debilitating condition is far too probable.
No, I will not create another person who has the potential to end up like myself. I will not repeat the folly of my parents. To me doing good work is a better legacy than bringing another need machine into a society defined by scarcity.
Honestly, I don't think you can justify bringing someone into this harsh and unforgiving world unless you have ensured that they have the means to leave it humanely if they have decided they've had enough, i.e. without being coerced to stay alive indefinitely and without being forced to rely on unreliable, painful, and violent methods.
Unfortunately for me this is highly likely: I have a multigenerational history of depression and narcissistic personality disorder in my family, so the likelihood of my child ending up with such a debilitating condition is far too probable.
No, I will not create another person who has the potential to end up like myself. I will not repeat the folly of my parents. To me doing good work is a better legacy than bringing another need machine into a society defined by scarcity.
Honestly, I don't think you can justify bringing someone into this harsh and unforgiving world unless you have ensured that they have the means to leave it humanely if they have decided they've had enough, i.e. without being coerced to stay alive indefinitely and without being forced to rely on unreliable, painful, and violent methods.
AveryConure
Some idiot
- May 11, 2018
- 437
Personally I don't want kids cause I can barely take care of myself and the state of the world and yadda yadda.
Other than that, if you want kids and are sure you can handle it, it's your choice. If you don't want any cause of antinatalism and etc., also your choice. If you want an abortion, you do you. The government is really shitty at making decisions for everyone anyways.
Also Texas giving women the death penalty for getting an abortion is the dumbest fucking thing I ever heard.
Other than that, if you want kids and are sure you can handle it, it's your choice. If you don't want any cause of antinatalism and etc., also your choice. If you want an abortion, you do you. The government is really shitty at making decisions for everyone anyways.
Also Texas giving women the death penalty for getting an abortion is the dumbest fucking thing I ever heard.
Nobody talked about giving the government the power of deciding who will have children. Just about adults voluntarily given up on the issue.This question is very broad. If a person is severely depressed and considering children at that moment that does not seem wise personally. Especially if having a child is viewed as panacea out of depression. Regardless of my opinion though I would have no right to interfere and nor should the government. Nor would I shame them for their decision like they are the most vile immoral being on the planet. Besides, shaming people out of presumed immoral behaviour does not work and is more likely to backfire.
I also don't hold the view that because you have any sort of genetic defect you should use that to inform policy and deny the right to have children because of the potential risk. I also don't view depression as solely a genetic or chemical thing either in the first place. So I am even less inclined to want to refuse a person their right to choose on that basis. I am pretty averse to the government being given the power to continue to erode my choices on the pretext of a greater good especially on something as fundamental and part of core biology as having children. What criteria would they use? Would wealth be a measure? Would disability be a measure? Do you trust financial incentive to not skew things? Can you appeal? Do you even trust your government? I sure as fuck don't, no even to fill potholes effectively.
This type of thinking has resulted in some pretty awful things in the interests of a 'greater good.' For the most part, resulting in human rights violations and other unintended deeply alarming consequences. I am not just talking about Nazi eugenics either but much more recent attempts to control population. Like India's state of emergency and China's one-child policy.
There are better methods of reducing birth rates. That don't involve your government potentially violating your human rights, kicking your door in and forcing unwanted medical procedures on you, disregarding your personal choices for some apparent greater good.
Better methods consist of education and lifting people out of poverty. The correlation between reduced poverty and lower fertility rates is well established. You can examine in detail why that turns out to be the case here.
Fertility Rate
How does the number of children vary across the world and over time? What is driving the rapid global change?
If people want to perpetuate the species that is none of my business at the end of the day. How depressed they are is equally irrelevant. The closest I come to antinatalism was choosing to not roll the dice on producing an offspring that may well have to suffer through bipolar like me. With flawed mental health systems and a judgmental society. This was a devastating conversation to have with my fiance at the time. It is also pretty grim to watch children being vilified for leaving school to protest climate change. What a sad world they are set to inherit at this idiotic rate. Infinite growth on a finite planet can only lead to self cannibalization at some point.
not-2-b-the-answer
Archangel
- Mar 23, 2018
- 8,412
Tragoedia Vitae
Experienced
- Oct 14, 2018
- 230
A lot of good responses in this thread. Personally, I'm not planning on bringing any children into this world. Human consciousness is a horror—if you think and feel deeply, then everything seems terribly sad and vain in the end.
And all of us are fundamentally alone in this world. It doesn't matter how many friends or relatives or acquaintances we have. We cannot ever fully comprehend the joys and sorrows of our fellow human beings. We crave connection, but it is not possible for us to inhabit exactly the same mental and emotional landscapes. There will always be some kind of disconnection, alienation, distance. The human heart will always remain a thing of mystery, a dimly understood secret.
With that said, what point is there in having a child if you know perfectly well that they will live and die alone in this world?
"Know yourselves—be infertile and let the earth be silent after ye." (Peter Wessel Zapffe).
And all of us are fundamentally alone in this world. It doesn't matter how many friends or relatives or acquaintances we have. We cannot ever fully comprehend the joys and sorrows of our fellow human beings. We crave connection, but it is not possible for us to inhabit exactly the same mental and emotional landscapes. There will always be some kind of disconnection, alienation, distance. The human heart will always remain a thing of mystery, a dimly understood secret.
With that said, what point is there in having a child if you know perfectly well that they will live and die alone in this world?
"Know yourselves—be infertile and let the earth be silent after ye." (Peter Wessel Zapffe).
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I think everyone should have kids if they desire and will try their best to raise them
Jessica-
Experienced
- Mar 26, 2019
- 263
Absolutely not. Severely depressed people having troubles taking care of themselves, imagine them bringing up children. I am not even going into the possibility of the impact it would have on their kids if they choose to CTB.
In answer to your question: hell no. I'm of the opinion no-one should have children but especially not those who have problems enough of their own, regardless of the specifics. If you have difficulty maintaining your emotional equilibrium and are prone to doubting the point of existence, losing vitality, considering suicide etcetera you'll very likely not make a good parent. If you do procreate and it ends badly as it likely will your child/childrens' suffering will be on your head and you'll be responsible for it. No-one forced you to bring them into existence.
Case in point: my mother's an alcoholic with chronic depression and possibly personality issues, my father's a cold-blooded narcisist. Neither of them were fit to raise children and we their three children suffered for it. My youngest brother has been 'diagnosed' with bipolar disorder but from his early youth it was clear he had issues (not even finishing high school, drug and alcohol abuse) yet he procreated anyway. Now he's in a mental hospital, his girlfriend/the mother of his two young children split up with him, their house will have to be sold and he has nothing to look forward to but paying child support for the next two decades, living with our mother and an unskilled labour/dead-end job. His boys will very likely suffer because of this fucked-up situation.
In both cases it's clear the children involved would have been better off had they not been born.
Imo existence offers no value over not existing. Right now I'm listening to the divine Cecilia Bartoli and this brings me great pleasure but does this mean I'm better off having been brought into existence? Most certainly not as I wouldn't even have known who Cecilia Bartoli is nor would I ever have heard her glorious artistry.
Life is completely unnecessary and given our knowledge of the universe the great exception to the rule: at best it's an inconvenience, at worst it's pure hell. Suffering is virtually guaranteed and all that awaits us is death. If that doesn't make it crystal clear it's a tragic mistake and a losing game with high stakes I don't what will.
The myth of the fall is a completely apt metaphor for this: due to someone-else's sin we were forced out of paradise (non-existence) into this cruel, dangerous and fucked-up world. "It's a cold world on a good day" (Tupac).
I think this world and life itself is so fundamentally flawed it would be better if our whole species went extinct asap. Preferably with all other sentient life as their existence clearly isn't a picknick either.
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Plus people in general being a bunch of asses in one way or another (not to say I'm much better). I would think that our society wouldn't be so screwed up if that wasn't the case.
I don't think that's a reason not to have kids but if it's severely debilitating and u cannot find help or figure out how to treat it than it's probably not a good idea. Usually depression is caused by environment, poor diet, lack of exercise, lack of connection with other people. Terrible job, being poor. Because there's a ton of vitamin deficiencies these days and toxins in the food. You could have been traumatized and neglected in your childhood. It's not as simple as your genes.
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AnnihilatedAnna
A Joke
- Apr 17, 2018
- 1,346
I think severely depressed people shouldn't have children when they are severely depressed. If they get better and feel better it is a very different discussion in my oppinion.
If I get better and have a future I would want kids. Not just kids but like 5.
If I get better and have a future I would want kids. Not just kids but like 5.
TAW122
Emissary of the right to die.
- Aug 30, 2018
- 6,662
I don't think so, and this may be my antinatalistic pov speaking here. I believe that the world itself sucks badly enough even for us, therefore, bringing more people into the already depressing, cutthroat, hellhole world is just doing them a disfavor. While I get that there are people who like to have sex and enjoy our most basic instincts, there are ways to do that, protective sex and legalization of prostitution/selling sex (but that's another topic for another time).
Now as far as people who are severely depressed, then it is even more important not bring in more people who will carry those genes and suffer through the same fate that the severely depressed person did, it is simply cruel and immoral to bring that person into the world for him/her to suffer.
Now as far as people who are severely depressed, then it is even more important not bring in more people who will carry those genes and suffer through the same fate that the severely depressed person did, it is simply cruel and immoral to bring that person into the world for him/her to suffer.
Depressed people who are "cured" are prone to get depression again in the future. Imagine being disabled with 5 children. Or wanting to ctb with 5 children. And if these children only have miserable lives when they grow up? I would not take the risk.
AnnihilatedAnna
A Joke
- Apr 17, 2018
- 1,346
Define disabled?
True there is always a risk but if you can provide your children with stable living conditions and a loving home imo the risks are worth it. As for wanting to ctb with children, for me that would not be an issue. I would never abandon my kids in that way. I refuse to do that to kids, my mom abandoned our family when she cheated, granted not the same but I could never do that.
Doesn't have strength to get out of room.
You never know. If depression gets too ugly, ctb is the only way out.
AnnihilatedAnna
A Joke
- Apr 17, 2018
- 1,346
DepressionsAHo
Heaven gained a new ho
- Feb 15, 2019
- 831
No, but I don't say this from a nihlism or whatever perspective. I say this from a compassionate and scientifically accurate standpoint. Depression as a well as a host of other mental and physical diseases are passed down genetically. Why pass that down to your children?
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