ninfanatic

ninfanatic

please kill me
Jul 3, 2024
66
I've seen this a lot when a suicidal person mentions feeling afraid to go through with the act of committing suicide. I cannot speak for everyone who is suicidal, it's not possible for me to.

"There is a part of you that doesn't want to die because you want to get better."

My rebuttal to this sentiment is that every single person has a survival instinct inherently in them. It's just there because we're human beings, and I don't think for some people it implies much beyond that. That's just a biological design.

I know it's not intentional for people who say it, but just personally when I hear or see it, it feels invalidating. Maybe I don't want to have to die, but I want death. I hold the perspective that death is freedom, whether the afterlife that I personally believe in and envision waits for me, or even just nothing at all, no consciousness, nothing. Ceasing to exist or higher existence.

I could very well be wrong/incorrect in this, but it's an opinion I do strongly hold. Wondering if anyone feels similarly or differently.
 
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dinosavr

dinosavr

and if i’m turning blue please don’t save me 🌛
Dec 14, 2023
672
Oh well I think I'm guilty here. I feel I'm 100% ready and sure about my decision and yet I still haven't done anything, which is definitely at least partially my fault.
 
Lost Magic

Lost Magic

Illuminated
May 5, 2020
3,123
Yeah, the survival instinct and the false hope are the parts that have kept me here. Life is so dull and uneventful. I can't wait to be gone.
 

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b1cycle

b1cycle

Member
Jun 9, 2024
66
I mean, if you say you want one thing and then act as if you want the opposite, it makes sense someone would wonder about it.
 
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ninfanatic

ninfanatic

please kill me
Jul 3, 2024
66
I mean, if you say you want one thing and then act as if you want the opposite, it makes sense someone would wonder about it.
It's not that I don't understand the reason why the sentiment exists (to the extent that I do), it's hard to know what exact intentions or feelings someone is experiencing or holding because everyone is unique so its left up to natural presumption and sometimes it is true. My issue is the universal application.
 
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Nothing87

Nothing87

I want to achieve eternal oblivion
Jun 5, 2024
81
I find death very beautiful...

It's like being in a calmest form of yourself where you don't feel suffering or any form of pain.

Though, I understand those people who are afraid of the act of committing suicide, and It is not only because of survival instinct or fear of death. The thought of leaving those people you loved can be a deterrent of committing suicide. There is also a deep desire to search for purpose or meaning of life which makes dying felt like not worth it. Being hopeful that there is an end of the tunnel is also the reason why humans keep living and moving forward.

Life and Death are both beautiful and should be treated with respect and understanding.
 
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ninfanatic

ninfanatic

please kill me
Jul 3, 2024
66
I find death very beautiful...

It's like being in a calmest form of yourself where you don't feel suffering or any form of pain.

Though, I understand those people who are afraid of the act of committing suicide, and It is not only because of survival instinct or fear of death. The thought of leaving those people you loved can be a deterrent of committing suicide. There is also a deep desire to search for purpose or meaning of life which makes dying felt like not worth it. Being hopeful that there is an end of the tunnel is also the reason why humans keep living and moving forward.

Life and Death are both beautiful and should be treated with respect and understanding.
I should've considered that in my post about not wanting to leave others behind. It's something I'm aware of/have experienced but didn't include. You're correct.
 
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PinballWizard39

PinballWizard39

Experienced
May 3, 2024
219
I get frustrated with MH teams or crisis teams sometimes because I will blatantly admit that I don't actually want to die, but at the same time, I tell them I can't live like this anymore. All they hear is 'I don't want to die' - aka - there's no risk of her killing herself.
 
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bitofftoomuch

bitofftoomuch

hold onto those who accept your messy self
Jul 1, 2024
147
If you gave me two buttons -- get better or die, I would choose get better. But in reality, it's do a few simple tasks to die, or go through an elaborate, indefinitely long obstacle course of pain to maybe get better.

I also find it frustrating that people will define "get better" in ways that aren't actually a better life to me.

So yeah, it just feels like a bad faith comparison, the way they act like it's as simple as asking yourself which outcome you'd rather have.
 
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sylvka

sylvka

New Member
Jul 3, 2024
4
i find the idea of death to be comforting. i grew up very religious and i used to struggle with an intense fear of hell. as my life has gone downhill this fear has slowly gone away. i like to think death will be as peaceful as going to sleep. the act itself i am not necessarily scared of. i hope to do it in a peaceful way and this site has been very helpful so far in researching different ways. i just feel guilt regarding my adoptive mother. she is an older woman who tried her best to give me a good life. part of me thinks i should wait until she dies to CTB so i can spare her the pain. but simply being alive is causing me a lot of pain as well. that is what makes me feel conflicted. i don't have any desire to live for myself. so i also find it annoying when people say "you don't want to die."
 
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ijustwishtodie

ijustwishtodie

death will be my ultimate bliss
Oct 29, 2023
4,577
Exactly. The sentiment doesn't apply to everybody. I don't want to live... I actually want to die. Or, more accurately, I want to be dead. The issue is that the pathway to death (i.e. dying) is extremely difficult to take. I find death to be beautiful and peaceful. Also...
"There is a part of you that doesn't want to die because you want to get better."
...I don't want to get better because I know what being "better" means in their words. What being better means is to be a wage slave and exhaust my body and mind for decades until I then suffer painfully for another decade or two through old age and die in an absolute painful way. Why would I want to be "better" when being better is just full of suffering, torment and pain? It's really sad that this is what normies call being "better"
 
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Not A Fan

Not A Fan

don't avoid the void
Jun 22, 2024
189
People who have never experienced being suicidal, although they usually have the best intentions, are unable to put themselves into that perspective. It just does not, can not, compute for them.

I realized from talking to people here, that there really is some kind of stark experiential divide between us and other people. There's a whole set of assumptions which most people take for granted, while the suicidal person's crisis is related to the collapse of such assumptions (ie about the ultimate value of life no matter what, etc.)

It almost feels like the there's an untranslatable language barrier. And utterances such as this, "you dont actually want to die," are the byproduct of the communication breakdown.
If you gave me two buttons -- get better or die, I would choose get better.
Ah I love this! So clearly illustrates how ridiculous the idea is... I need to remember to use this next time.
Life and Death are both beautiful and should be treated with respect and understanding.
And are not even really "separate." At least that's what I heard when I took DMT all those years ago. It basically said "you're already dead, always were, and it's ok, always has been." It still gives me chills. Nothing evil about death, as long as you're not going around killing other people! It's the most natural thing there is.
 
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vesisika

vesisika

Member
Dec 16, 2023
22
my psychologist always tells me that people don't actually want to die, they just don't want to feel the pain. and for me, that's the truth. i just feel like i won't ever be happy.
 
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ninfanatic

ninfanatic

please kill me
Jul 3, 2024
66
i just feel guilt regarding my adoptive mother. she is an older woman who tried her best to give me a good life. part of me thinks i should wait until she dies to CTB so i can spare her the pain. but simply being alive is causing me a lot of pain as well. that is what makes me feel conflicted. i don't have any desire to live for myself. so i also find it annoying when people say "you don't want to die."
I feel this way with my mom. She struggles with a lot of mental health illnesses herself. Sometimes when I've just on impulse had to resist taking a bottle of Benadryl or something (I know, it would've failed anyway), I thought of her.
 
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bitofftoomuch

bitofftoomuch

hold onto those who accept your messy self
Jul 1, 2024
147
Ah I love this! So clearly illustrates how ridiculous the idea is... I need to remember to use this next time.
The shorthand is "what makes you think I can get better?"
 
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M

mark404

Member
Jan 11, 2024
23
My rebuttal to this sentiment is that every single person has a survival instinct inherently in them. It's just there because we're human beings, and I don't think for some people it implies much beyond that. That's just a biological design.

I think the psychology behind survival instinct is that the human brain is inherently addicted to living. Just existing gives pleasure to some part of the brain, people just don't notice the pleasure exists. I think survival instinct, fear of death, etc. are really a fear of missing out on potential pleasure in the future, which disappears when one acknowledges that life is not worth living anymore, that there is no point to existing anymore.
I personally feel like I float in between both states. Some days, I feel like there is no point in living anymore because there's nothing fun to do anymore, and my fear of death subsides a bit. On other days, I feel strong SI because there is a somewhat fun short term goal I am trying to accomplish.
This theory may explain why elderly people are often fine with dying, since they already lived life to the fullest and do not have any regrets. They do not have any more potential pleasure to miss out on because they have already done everything they wanted to do. It may also explain why many parents (not saying all) would die for their children in an instant, since when they die, they are trading their potential future pleasure in exchange for the survival of their children. The brain probably sees this trade as profitable, since natural selection would probably have selected humans who die for their children rather than humans who do not.
 
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Not A Fan

Not A Fan

don't avoid the void
Jun 22, 2024
189
I think survival instinct, fear of death, etc. are really a fear of missing out on potential pleasure in the future, which disappears when one acknowledges that life is not worth living anymore, that there is no point to existing anymore.
We can all the feel the future-pleasure-window shrinking rapidly.

Also, I'm afraid of some of the events I might experience if I were to allow myself to live another 40 years. Not something to look forward to. I feel terrible for people who are just now being born.
 
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justwannadip

justwannadip

it's still raining
May 27, 2024
175
I've seen this a lot when a suicidal person mentions feeling afraid to go through with the act of committing suicide. I cannot speak for everyone who is suicidal, it's not possible for me to.

"There is a part of you that doesn't want to die because you want to get better."

My rebuttal to this sentiment is that every single person has a survival instinct inherently in them. It's just there because we're human beings, and I don't think for some people it implies much beyond that. That's just a biological design.

I know it's not intentional for people who say it, but just personally when I hear or see it, it feels invalidating. Maybe I don't want to have to die, but I want death. I hold the perspective that death is freedom, whether the afterlife that I personally believe in and envision waits for me, or even just nothing at all, no consciousness, nothing. Ceasing to exist or higher existence.

I could very well be wrong/incorrect in this, but it's an opinion I do strongly hold. Wondering if anyone feels similarly or differently.
But what is freedom if you're not there to experience it (if there is no afterlife)? I get you though, that death is at least "freedom" from having to experience constant suffering. I think thats the most painful realization when I got seriously suicidal, is that, for me, I just want to experience a decent level of peace and enough joy to make life worth living. But death isn't an experience at all. Its part of the reason I'm here.

Even though I don't think its likely or even possible for me, I've felt the experience of peace and joy, even though they were such brief periods and the times I've genuinely experienced them I could count on my fingers. Peace is so difficult that it surprises me when I feel just ok for a few minutes of the day. But I know what that peace and joy feels like, and it pains me so much that its so rare for me, and I see others be able to live with normal levels of it. It feels like a party that I wasn't invited to, but the party is everyday, and I'm just watching it from my bedroom window. Seeing people smile, knowing what its like, but not being able to feel it, or even touch it. Wishing my mind didn't work against me in every way, to make it impossible for happiness or peace to settle here. It always tells me that my keys are in the past, and things woulda been different if… but having seen this movie over and over, there is no woulda been different if, because no matter how hard I try to change, or do something different, or listen to my mind, I end up in the same spot-still convinced that if I only did something else things would've been better and I would've been ok.

My mind taunts me by giving me the feeling of peace and what I could of felt when I imagine my past actions differently, but because it didn't go like that, my brain constantly berates me, and beats out any bit of peace or semblance of joy in the present. It doesnt allow me to be present. No matter how much I try. It compares constantly, or ruminates, or imagines and ideal past, or criticizes me, or tells me how fucked up qnd horrible I am. I live with the worst critic that could possibly be made, and its my brain. I can't escape it. It knows my thoughts. It is my thoughts. Its my CPU, its the pilot of my plane. Every single action, decision, thought and experience, it pervades and destroys. I've been trying to change the behaviours and external circumstances, not fully grasping, that I don't think it fucking matters what I do, my brain won't be content, it will always doubt, worry, tell me that I'm doing it wrong, make me feel like what I have is bad, that I should do this or do that and I'll feel better, that I'm not good enough, that she's not good enough, that things would be better if…why did u think that was the right decision? Wtf is wrong with u? Etc etc. just pure chaotic noise, and constant pain.

But I think life is a beautiful experience for a less disordered and dysfunctional brain. I've felt it for moments, and although so few and far between, like once you've had a spiritual experience, you know it exists, you know its there. I know life is worth it for many, I'm just locked out of heaven, a normal less disordered brain is heaven compared to this hell. I wish things were different. I so badly want to join the party, I so badly want to live, but you can only take so much of a beating, so much intense disappointment, so much internal horror, before it just becomes inhumane.

I view my experiencer/observer (as in my conscience) separate from my mind that includes my disorders, dysfunction and inner critic. It becomes inhumane for the experiencer or observer to be in an unrelenting horror film for almost its entirety of experience. For me, it doesn't feel like much of a choice. Like the 9/11 jumper who leaps from the window to avoid dying from the flames, and those that wait helplessly waving their towels for a rescuer that never comes. I'm the observer, forced into having to make a humane choice. I'm burning alive and I'm nearing my threshold. I don't want my life to have been mainly pain. I dont want it to end the way its always been. But I'm not in control of the movie, I'm just the observer.
 
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3/4Dead

3/4Dead

Peace, Love, Empathy
Feb 27, 2024
405
For me, it's definetly true. I don't want to die, I want to stop feeling like this, and what are my options? Continue living and hate it while contributing nothing, or knock out some really spectacular accomplishments if I can scrape together the motivation and then off myself. Hmmmm
 
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F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
9,228
I also think their reasoning is dumb. You actually just want your life to be better- well- duh. People turn to suicide when they can't see a way of feasibly making their life better- surely?

The most hardcore promortalists will argue that there's nothing good about life itself. That life itself is the problem. But- that still boils down to the same problem- they can't make existence/ life work, or feel appealing to them.

I think it's the same problem with other pro-life slogans like- 'suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.' Both statements assume that all life's problems can be fixed to a point where a person will be content to live. I simply don't think they always can be. Plus- the person needs to have the motivation themselves to turn things around.

Where I'd agree personally is- of course I don't want to go through the terrifying process of trying to kill off my body. All sorts could fail and I could end up much worse off. Honestly, I deeply resent it that I'm faced with this problem if I really want out.

But still- it's like- do you want a life filled with rainbows or, do you really want to kill yourself? It simply isn't realistic. That's not the choice we get. It's either to live and struggle through hell to (possibly) get things to be better or, take a risk on suicide which as an act isn't appealing to most of us either. Neither are exactly ideal choices. People likely choose suicide when life feels more scary than death.
 
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H

Hotsackage

Enlightened
Mar 11, 2019
1,026
It in fact does notcin some cases, and society would rather people be in agony for some reason
 
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bookie

bookie

main character of sasu
Mar 31, 2024
384
I really want to die
 
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SilentSadness

SilentSadness

Vultures circle overhead
Feb 28, 2023
1,070
"There is a part of you that doesn't want to die because you want to get better."
This is just gaslighting, same energy as "there's a part of you that doesn't want to leave me". And while it's vague, it hides the assumption that "get better" means "live like everyone else" when for many people it actually means "unrealistic changes to living standards". Personally I think it's dishonest to insist someone doesn't know what they want.
 
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