TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,819
IRL and even sometimes I have heard from people who say that "Suicide/CTB is the easy/cowardly way out.", "If you really wanted to CTB, you would have done it!", "Everyday people die easily/It's so easy to die in the world!" or such similar inane statements that couldn't be further from the truth. I know most of us are smart enough to figure out that those statements, usually made by ignorant people on the Internet and some IRL, are simply just not true.

First off, there is something called the survival instinct (SI) and/or self-preservation. This is a biological instinct that each living thing (certainly humans) has to keep itself alive by avoiding danger, pain, harm. It has come from millions of years of evolution and it is ingrained in most (if not all) of us. It is not easy to override, suppress, overcome this very thing. To do so, would require tremendous courage, conviction, and sometimes even more..

As a result of this, the SI stops one from going through with painful activities (this is why when someone attempts with a less lethal method, the body involuntarily stops the person from continuing or sends lots of discomfort and pain signals to the person to discourage one from continuing). For example, if someone is standing on a ledge/high building, the body knows that if the person falls it would be serious injury and death so the body would involuntarily prevent the person from following through, their muscles could lock up and stiffen, they freeze and their body gets stiff and they simply could not make the jump. This is the SI stopping the person from going through. The same could be said for other methods as well (not limited to just jumping)

Two IRL examples (one when I was in high school and the other during college):

Example 1:
During one time, I had an argument with my father and I was a senior in high school at the time. He was mad at me for my behavior and slapped me across my face (long story but that's aside the point though). I got mad and upset, and I said well I guess it would be better when I'm dead, then he stated that if you wanted to CTB, you would have. Given that I was still just in high school at the time, didn't really have deep thinking or analysis, I was a bit naive, but not fully naive and was skeptical enough to know that CTB is not easy. Perhaps I didn't know what "survival instinct (SI)" was, but I had some idea of something that makes CTB difficult to follow through.

Example 2: During college, in my 2nd year, I had some altercation with my academic advisor (the reason for it isn't relevant though) and when my academic advisor used tough love (I fucking hate it but that's aside the point.) and scolded me to point of tears, I shyly asked "If someone were to CTB, would it be illegal?" (Keep in mind I never made any plans, intentions, or mention in detail just trying to pass it off passively) and he responded that "If you wanted to CTB, you wouldn't let people know, right? You would have done it in private." which partially insinuated that CTB must be something that is easy. Well obviously I didn't want to anyone know (which I don't plan to until after the deed is long done) because it would be counter-intuitive towards my efforts to CTB if I did. Also, CTB'ing is hard and it isn't easy.

A few common retort from others are:
"Then you don't really want to die.", "You are not ready to die then."

In response to these retorts, these are also ignorant and short-sighted as the people making those retorts don't live nor know what the sufferer is really going through. Maybe they are ready to die, but lack the means to be able to do so reliably and peacefully. So when people make these retorts or claim that 'suicide is easy', well they are ignorant.

In conclusion, the point I am making here is that when people made the decision to CTB and wish to CTB it isn't the fact that they couldn't CTB, but they are more fearful of failure (possibly resulting in permanent damage, worse injuries, becoming a vegetable, other consequences on top of what they are facing, etc.), not having access to a reliable (and peaceful) means of CTB'ing, and then there are some who want a dignified exit. Therefore, it is NOT a matter of whether they could die from anything (yes it's possible - hence there are accidental deaths and non-CTB deaths), but rather having a reliable, preferably peaceful way to death, in essence, a dignified death. It is a shame that government, society, and most people just don't seem to grasp this fact.
 
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D

Deleted member 14177

not home
Jan 20, 2020
346
Thank you for this.
 
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E

Epsilon0

Enlightened
Dec 28, 2019
1,874
I agree with the point you are making about the tremendous difficulty of ctb-ing. The majority of people who ctb don't do it on a a whim - precisely because it is so daunting.


May I just note @thrw_a_way1221221 that your posts are always full of personal, real life examples, which makes them very nice to read and vivid. It's sort of your hallmark.
 
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waterbottleman

waterbottleman

Not a person
Sep 30, 2019
721
I agree/disagree with the statement depending on how you interpret it.

I think the act of committing suicide is not easy at all, it is very difficult and takes a lot of courage to push past your SI and decide to actually ctb.

However if your life sucks, then yeah honestly being dead would be easier than being alive. No more suffering, no more disappointment, no more pain, all of the negativity of life is gone once you're dead. So yeah in that sense suicide is easier than being alive, once you actually successfully pull it off that is.
 
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511115

511115

_.__-_.__
Jan 4, 2019
45
A few common retort from others are:
"Then you don't really want to die.", "You are not ready to die then."

I absolutely hate this form of "mindreading" asshat shitholes do to invalidate others. Esp concerning when it comes from someone who's supposed to be a mental health professional!!!!

The reason why suicidal people seek help is because they are fucking miserable and are contemplating their own death. If they weren't seriously considering dying, they wouldn't need to seek help. So what's with invalidating their desire to die, by patronizing them.

ALSO, no shit, nobody is ready to die, we have fucking survival instinct. Suicide is not about dying, suicide is about not wanting to live. The only escape from life is death. That's why we kill ourselves. Not because we want to die, but because we don't want to live.
 
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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,819
Thanks @Epsilon0, I like to convey my points as clearly and thoroughly as I can including using examples, anecdotes, and other references.

@waterbottleman Yes, I see where you are coming from and yeah, in some respect, that does indeed make some sense if you interpreted in a different angle.

@511115 Great post, and yes, I too, can't stand how these so called 'professionals' treat their patients! :angry: It is damning infuriating to see the sheer mental gymnastics and deliberate ignorance and indifference towards real suicidal people who wish to go, and most of the time, they oftenly are seeking out information to use against the patient (meaning that they ask such incriminating and provocative questions about self-harm, danger, and what not). Whether the patients 'gets better' isn't necessarily their objective (especially the majority of them, whom are just doing it to earn a paycheck, virtue signal to the world, flaunt their "power" over the vulnerable).
 
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Empty Smile

Empty Smile

The final Bell has rung. Goodbye to all.
Jul 13, 2018
1,785
There are so many things these asscows say that irritate the hell out of me.

"What about the pain of those you leave behind?"

What about the pain I have been in for years that none of you cared about when I was alive?

"Why are you being so selfish?"

Why are you being so selfish to keep me alive when I'd rather be dead?

"Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem." (I hate this one with a passion)

And how do you know my problem is temporary? Have you spoken with my doctor?

And the list goes on. Do-gooders suck...
 
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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,819
@Empty Smile Agreed. I hate them especially the ones who care about how my death will affect them rather than them just respecting my decision. Also, these "people" are also the ones who decree "no one is entitled to anything", "the world doesn't owe you anything", etc. Fuck the lot of those people.
 
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Throwmyselfaway

Throwmyselfaway

Not gone yet but soon
Jan 14, 2020
798
Well said on all accounts. People don't get it. They don't live our lives. They don't know the pain (mentally, emotionally, and or physically) we are in.
 
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511115

511115

_.__-_.__
Jan 4, 2019
45
"Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem." (I hate this one with a passion)

Suicide is the only solution to a permanent problem (life).
 
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snowman626

snowman626

Mage
Jan 28, 2019
545
they'll be the same dumbasses who says shit like "why dont the homeless just buy a house then they wouldnt be homeless" or "quitting drugs is easy, just stop taking drugs duh"
 
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N

nbn

Student
Nov 3, 2019
191
IRL and even sometimes I have heard from people who say that "Suicide/CTB is the easy/cowardly way out.", "If you really wanted to CTB, you would have done it!", "Everyday people die easily/It's so easy to die in the world!" or such similar inane statements that couldn't be further from the truth. I know most of us are smart enough to figure out that those statements, usually made by ignorant people on the Internet and some IRL, are simply just not true.

First off, there is something called the survival instinct (SI) and/or self-preservation. This is a biological instinct that each living thing (certainly humans) has to keep itself alive by avoiding danger, pain, harm. It has come from millions of years of evolution and it is ingrained in most (if not all) of us. It is not easy to override, suppress, overcome this very thing. To do so, would require tremendous courage, conviction, and sometimes even more..

As a result of this, the SI stops one from going through with painful activities (this is why when someone attempts with a less lethal method, the body involuntarily stops the person from continuing or sends lots of discomfort and pain signals to the person to discourage one from continuing). For example, if someone is standing on a ledge/high building, the body knows that if the person falls it would be serious injury and death so the body would involuntarily prevent the person from following through, their muscles could lock up and stiffen, they freeze and their body gets stiff and they simply could not make the jump. This is the SI stopping the person from going through. The same could be said for other methods as well (not limited to just jumping)

Two IRL examples (one when I was in high school and the other during college):

Example 1:
During one time, I had an argument with my father and I was a senior in high school at the time. He was mad at me for my behavior and slapped me across my face (long story but that's aside the point though). I got mad and upset, and I said well I guess it would be better when I'm dead, then he stated that if you wanted to CTB, you would have. Given that I was still just in high school at the time, didn't really have deep thinking or analysis, I was a bit naive, but not fully naive and was skeptical enough to know that CTB is not easy. Perhaps I didn't know what "survival instinct (SI)" was, but I had some idea of something that makes CTB difficult to follow through.

Example 2: During college, in my 2nd year, I had some altercation with my academic advisor (the reason for it isn't relevant though) and when my academic advisor used tough love (I fucking hate it but that's aside the point.) and scolded me to point of tears, I shyly asked "If someone were to CTB, would it be illegal?" (Keep in mind I never made any plans, intentions, or mention in detail just trying to pass it off passively) and he responded that "If you wanted to CTB, you wouldn't let people know, right? You would have done it in private." which partially insinuated that CTB must be something that is easy. Well obviously I didn't want to anyone know (which I don't plan to until after the deed is long done) because it would be counter-intuitive towards my efforts to CTB if I did. Also, CTB'ing is hard and it isn't easy.

A few common retort from others are:
"Then you don't really want to die.", "You are not ready to die then."

In response to these retorts, these are also ignorant and short-sighted as the people making those retorts don't live nor know what the sufferer is really going through. Maybe they are ready to die, but lack the means to be able to do so reliably and peacefully. So when people make these retorts or claim that 'suicide is easy', well they are ignorant.

In conclusion, the point I am making here is that when people made the decision to CTB and wish to CTB it isn't the fact that they couldn't CTB, but they are more fearful of failure (possibly resulting in permanent damage, worse injuries, becoming a vegetable, other consequences on top of what they are facing, etc.), not having access to a reliable (and peaceful) means of CTB'ing, and then there are some who want a dignified exit. Therefore, it is NOT a matter of whether they could die from anything (yes it's possible - hence there are accidental deaths and non-CTB deaths), but rather having a reliable, preferably peaceful way to death, in essence, a dignified death. It is a shame that government, society, and most people just don't seem to grasp this fact.
I think u can become a good writer
 
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Heart of Ice

Chillin'
Sep 26, 2019
362
Suicide is more difficult than one might think, but it also isn't that difficult if you have the will. The hardest part about any method is the motivation/desperation needed, aka "overcoming the survival instinct". Living with pain takes more guts than committing suicide.

And as for people who say that suicide is cowardly... well, do they think wishing to avoid suffering is cowardly? Is there any inherent benefit to withstanding suffering? I used to think suicide is cowardly, because it felt intuitive. After all, everyone suffers to some extent, and the image of a soldier marching on despite pain captures the mind and the imagination. Now I've come to the stance that avoiding suffering is not really that cowardly, since there is no benefit from suffering. At least I don't see one.
 
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WEASEL1234

WEASEL1234

By a thread
Jan 28, 2020
134
I absolutely hate this form of "mindreading" asshat shitholes do to invalidate others. Esp concerning when it comes from someone who's supposed to be a mental health professional!!!!

The reason why suicidal people seek help is because they are fucking miserable and are contemplating their own death. If they weren't seriously considering dying, they wouldn't need to seek help. So what's with invalidating their desire to die, by patronizing them.

ALSO, no shit, nobody is ready to die, we have fucking survival instinct. Suicide is not about dying, suicide is about not wanting to live. The only escape from life is death. That's why we kill ourselves. Not because we want to die, but because we don't want to live.
That was one of the best and well put messages I have read on here.
 
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Sensei

Sensei

剣道家
Nov 4, 2019
6,336
OP, this is an honest question. Why are you so obsessed with what other people think? Do you need justification for committing suicide?

As for being ready or not, I think the reasoning around here can be a little bit odd at times.

IRL:

– I'm not sure I want to do bungee jumping.

– Then don't do it.
– You shouldn't do it if you don't want to.
– Why not?
– Maybe you should give it a try?
– Oh, come on! It'll be fun!
– There will be more times.

SS:

– I'm not sure I want to do bungee jumping.

– The elastic cord should be 20 meters long.
 
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Amorphous Blob

Amorphous Blob

Member
Jan 30, 2020
52
It is easy! I've done it several times so far
 
angie

angie

need to exit
May 25, 2018
480
Suicide is more difficult than one might think, but it also isn't that difficult if you have the will. The hardest part about any method is the motivation/desperation needed, aka "overcoming the survival instinct". Living with pain takes more guts than committing suicide.

And as for people who say that suicide is cowardly... well, do they think wishing to avoid suffering is cowardly? Is there any inherent benefit to withstanding suffering? I used to think suicide is cowardly, because it felt intuitive. After all, everyone suffers to some extent, and the image of a soldier marching on despite pain captures the mind and the imagination. Now I've come to the stance that avoiding suffering is not really that cowardly, since there is no benefit from suffering. At least I don't see one.
I think if there was a method where we only had to pop 1 pill and go immediately to sleep then die in our sleep then im sure most of us who want to ctb would take that pill.
But unfortunately any methods that comes close to giving us a peacefull death ,involves a lot of thought and preperation getting the ingredients needed , N ans Sn both require preperation and waiting times in between stages which means we have too much time to let si get the better of us ,and prevents us from doing it .

Thats what i think anyway .i want to ctb but cant overcome the si once i start the regime, as i say if it was just pop 1 pill id be gone a long time ago.
 
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J

JennyCurran

Member
Feb 7, 2020
14
All the more guaranteed methods are so violent... Far from a peaceful ending. I've looked over the edge of a few skyscrapers before, but never had the courage to do it. A few naive attempts at overdosing went wrong, even though I remember feeling ultimate disappointment when I realised I had failed. But overdose on pills is "popular" even though it isn't effective, because it seems easy and doesn't take as much courage initially. Turns out the aftermath can be excruciatingly painful :(
 
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WEASEL1234

WEASEL1234

By a thread
Jan 28, 2020
134
All the more guaranteed methods are so violent... Far from a peaceful ending. I've looked over the edge of a few skyscrapers before, but never had the courage to do it. A few naive attempts at overdosing went wrong, even though I remember feeling ultimate disappointment when I realised I had failed. But overdose on pills is "popular" even though it isn't effective, because it seems easy and doesn't take as much courage initially. Turns out the aftermath can be excruciatingly painful :(
Having suffocated myself to the point of no heartbeat... I can tell you from personal experience that a "one pill" option would have been a more favourable approach.
 
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Dizzy

Dizzy

Member
Nov 24, 2018
35
damn I thought jumping off something high was going to be the way for me... I'm real pist I survived all my attempts from teenagehood. I was impulsive enough, but someone always found me. I don't even have the will to get out of bed anymore...how will I let myself fall off a cliff...hmmm... I guess I am just waiting to snap, hoping it will give me enough drive.
 
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J

JennyCurran

Member
Feb 7, 2020
14
Having suffocated myself to the point of no heartbeat... I can tell you from personal experience that a "one pill" option would have been a more favourable approach.
Especially if it was looked at as Euthenasia and accepted by society....
damn I thought jumping off something high was going to be the way for me... I'm real pist I survived all my attempts from teenagehood. I was impulsive enough, but someone always found me. I don't even have the will to get out of bed anymore...how will I let myself fall off a cliff...hmmm... I guess I am just waiting to snap, hoping it will give me enough drive.
I used to want to take acid as I know I'll bad trip, next to a really high cliff. I don't think I could get the courage otherwise. Never did it, although stupidly tried to jump out a 3 story window on acid once haha!
 
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WEASEL1234

WEASEL1234

By a thread
Jan 28, 2020
134
damn I thought jumping off something high was going to be the way for me... I'm real pist I survived all my attempts from teenagehood. I was impulsive enough, but someone always found me. I don't even have the will to get out of bed anymore...how will I let myself fall off a cliff...hmmm... I guess I am just waiting to snap, hoping it will give me enough drive.
I would have my back to the sea and fall backwards... SI less likely to interfere
 
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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,819
@Sensei No worries, you didn't offend me. To answer your question, I'm a bit obsessed because I couldn't stand the reasoning and logic (as someone who sees the world very logically it bothers me when there are logical inconsistencies and such). Also, no I don't need any justification from those 'people' as I've made up my mind. I just feel like venting a bit, but also imparting some of my two cents as well as knowledge so that others on here may make use of it.

@angie Yes, I would definitely take such a 'pill' if it existed and I had access to it. However, given the reality of the situation and where we are at, that is pretty much unlikely though, thus we have to resort to violent and brutal methods of exiting this world.

@JennyCurran Sadly, that is true. OD seems to be a very popular method because of some false myths and also a mixture of impulsivity (not claiming ALL OD attempts or methods are impulsive, but a good amount are). I think it is also partially due to the lack of reliable information as well as poor understanding of how much of a certain drug/medicine it takes to be lethal, how the drugs and meds interact/react with one another, etc.

@Dizzy I'm sorry that life has been bad for you and I hope you are able to find peace in the future.
 
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J

JennyCurran

Member
Feb 7, 2020
14
@Sensei No worries, you didn't offend me. To answer your question, I'm a bit obsessed because I couldn't stand the reasoning and logic (as someone who sees the world very logically it bothers me when there are logical inconsistencies and such). Also, no I don't need any justification from those 'people' as I've made up my mind. I just feel like venting a bit, but also imparting some of my two cents as well as knowledge so that others on here may make use of it.

@angie Yes, I would definitely take such a 'pill' if it existed and I had access to it. However, given the reality of the situation and where we are at, that is pretty much unlikely though, thus we have to resort to violent and brutal methods of exiting this world.

@JennyCurran Sadly, that is true. OD seems to be a very popular method because of some false myths and also a mixture of impulsivity (not claiming ALL OD attempts or methods are impulsive, but a good amount are). I think it is also partially due to the lack of reliable information as well as poor understanding of how much of a certain drug/medicine it takes to be lethal, how the drugs and meds interact/react with one another, etc.

@Dizzy I'm sorry that life has been bad for you and I hope you are able to find peace in the future.
Also the doctors/psychiatrists tell you you might die if you take with alcohol etc or are hesitant to prescribe incase you overdose... Weekly pickup from pharmacy etc. Makes you feel like it must be easy to just take a lot of and die