Venting (Reminder/Revisited) "We care about you!" (and similar remarks said by prolifers)

[TAW122]

Perhaps you have heard common cliches like "people care", "I care", "you matter", or similar platitudes espoused by the pro-lifers and common people in society. I believe most of us may already know this, but for those who don't know and just as a reminder... They don't care about us, our plights, our reasons for wanting to CTB (with maybe the rare exception of a terminal illness, even then there are still some that are even against it then), they CARE about our being alive so that they won't have to feel sad, guilty, or uncomfortable over our death.

I had a similar thread, talking about how people don't (really) care about the suicidal, just the "act" of caring (a.k.a. virtue signaling and ego boosting), which relates to this thread pretty closely.

There is also a good quote by the user named u/ezyt8 though sadly, his post was deleted by the prolife moderators on SW.

People don't care if everyday of your life is excruciating pain non stop. They expect you to function as normal. They don't even care if you WANT to kill yourself. As long as you don't do it that's all that matters to them.

-----
In addition to society, with respect to the government, state, and establishment (or similar authority), their main interest is money (taxes and consumption) so that the more people alive and suffering, but slaving away just to get by is a benefit to them. I believe that once someone is no longer beneficial for the government and state to milk labor and goods out of, they would care a bit less (still harbors anti-choice sentiments though).

Therefore, whenever someone says: "We care about you!" (or similar phrases and statements), it translates to: they "We care about your continued existence (even if you are suffering greatly) so we won't have to feel bad or confront how shitty and unfair life is." The moment that someone decides they want to check out because of whatever reason, they are gaslight, guilt tripped, and shamed for doing so. Even worse though, they are threatened with forced intervention (involuntary commitment, forced treatment, detainment, etc.). I really hate the disingenuity of people and their hypocritical stances and only wished they would be more honest, but that's another topic for another thread and another time.

Edit: Added a quote I found that was profound on that SW subreddit.

 

[almost_dead]

We care about you OP

 

[TAW122]

It seems like the person who replied must have been a prolifer in disguise?

 

[Mr2005]

We care about you OP

I always thought this person was a troll but some of what they said did make me laugh. Guilty

 

[ghostspace]

I care about people and want them to find peace, no matter if that means recovery or catching the bus.

I especially care for people on this site because I see bits of my own suffering being felt by others here and it makes me feel close to them without needing to know them well.

but as for the whole, "I care about you so don't kill yourself," I find it selfish as they're making your suffering about themselves.

when people tell me they care and that I matter it makes me feel so far away.

it's better when people just say, "yeah, that fucking sucks. it sucks that nothing helps your pain, it sucks that those things happened to you, it's stupidly unfair that this planet is a fucked-up mess and that wanting to escape it is seen as almost criminal."

in short, empathizing is the key. sympathy feels like empty pity.

 

[262653]

Human farms are real, and if there is no department dedicated to figuring out how to use human biology (urge to survive) for profit, then they aren't doing their job.

I don't like hypocrisy too (what a coincidence), but why not use it when it seems like the best instrument for the task at hand? It's like, if I had to prepare a piece of raw beef for eating, I'd use tools and techniques that would turn it into the most tasty and nutritious food I can make, with the least amount of effort on my part. OK, maybe I should extend the analogy a little so it's both more accurate and encompassing. It could be the cow still alive (or maybe a bunch of cows? maybe a cow farm), so that when I choose how to convert her into profits, there would be another variable at play -- the well-being of the cow. This variable is relevant for an empathetic person, but what if I don't have empathy for this particular cow? Then the suffering of the cow would be only relevant to me as long as it doesn't affect my profit. (So tempting to draw the parallel to the profit of a psychiatrist/psychologist vs. the suffering of the patient/client.) Maybe, maybe I could put her in better life conditions, but wouldn't that hurt my profit? I think there would be a balance (the golden mean, so to speak, though the cows would probably disagree if they could argue), where I squeeze out of her as much as I can, but not too much (diminishing returns?), resulting in the highest profit for me. Cows have their own interests, of course, as well as their own golden mean...

But we don't care about that, no do we? So back to instruments. There are too many of us, and they can't use electric sticks against all of us (you can google "cattle prod" if you're interested), or at least not at this point of history. Instead, the manipulative tactics are employed against humans, like diverting attention, silencing voices that are potentially dangerous to the profit (ideas can be contagious), convincing that slavery is good for the slaves, and suchlike.

 

[TAW122]

I care about people and want them to find peace, no matter if that means recovery or catching the bus.

I especially care for people on this site because I see bits of my own suffering being felt by others here and it makes me feel close to them without needing to know them well.

but as for the whole, "I care about you so don't kill yourself," I find it selfish as they're making your suffering about themselves.

when people tell me they care and that I matter it makes me feel so far away.

it's better when people just say, "yeah, that fucking sucks. it sucks that nothing helps your pain, it sucks that those things happened to you, it's stupidly unfair that this planet is a fucked-up mess and that wanting to escape it is seen as almost criminal."

in short, empathizing is the key. sympathy feels like empty pity.

Well said, and yes, I hate it when people make it about themselves and themselves only, with no consideration of the person suffering. Also, yes, sympathy and pity suck more than empathy. I'd rather them not have sympathy and pity (looking down on the person) than to do so.

Human farms are real, and if there is no department dedicated to figuring out how to use human biology (urge to survive) for profit, then they aren't doing their job.

I don't like hypocrisy too (what a coincidence), but why not use it when it seems like the best instrument for the task at hand? It's like, if I had to prepare a piece of raw beef for eating, I'd use tools and techniques that would turn it into the most tasty and nutritious food I can make, with the least amount of effort on my part. OK, maybe I should extend the analogy a little so it's both more accurate and encompassing. It could be the cow still alive (or maybe a bunch of cows? maybe a cow farm), so that when I choose how to convert her into profits, there would be another variable at play -- the well-being of the cow. This variable is relevant for an empathetic person, but what if I don't have empathy for this particular cow? Then the suffering of the cow would be only relevant to me as long as it doesn't affect my profit. (So tempting to draw the parallel to the profit of a psychiatrist/psychologist vs. the suffering of the patient/client.) Maybe, maybe I could put her in better life conditions, but wouldn't that hurt my profit? I think there would be a balance (the golden mean, so to speak, though the cows would probably disagree if they could argue), where I squeeze out of her as much as I can, but not too much (diminishing returns?), resulting in the highest profit for me. Cows have their own interests, of course, as well as their own golden mean...

But we don't care about that, no do we? So back to instruments. There are too many of us, and they can't use electric sticks against all of us (you can google "cattle prod" if you're interested), or at least not at this point of history. Instead, the manipulative tactics are employed against humans, like diverting attention, silencing voices that are potentially dangerous to the profit (ideas can be contagious), convincing that slavery is good for the slaves, and suchlike.

That's an interesting analogy and example. Indeed, ideas and voices can be very powerful and influential, so part of me thinks that maybe the people who are vested in the interests of profit and control feel threatened when their power is being challenged or at risk of being challenged, thus, they decide to silence the dissenting voices and frame the act of suicide to be irrational and a result of mental illness. Then they peddle that into psychiatry and the masses eat it up, which means that psychiatry is a means of social control and order, but that's a different topic for another thread.

 

[TAW122]

In a similar vein, there is another statement spewed by pro-lifers, which is "We are concerned about [insert noun, verb, behavior]." This is the same or very similar to the original statement, albeit just spoken differently. Without reiterating and repeating everything I've stated originally, I will just say that they aren't concerned about said person's interests, but rather how that person will affect them. As long as said person doesn't CTB, they aren't concerned about said person's woes and troubles or the things that push said person towards wanting to CTB. They are only concerned about whether the person will CTB or not because it shatters their worldview of a just, beautiful world (which is far from the truth).

 

[Sinkinshyp]

I'm sorry to inform you I will say I care- because I honestly do. Especially someone I've come to know here. It's part of being a mom, compassionate person. I know some people just need the peer to peer support here and some will CTB. If I can provide support or advise I try to do my best if someone asks. I've been told by 2 people message me and express they really did not want to CTB and asked advice. I talked with them to find what has brought them to this point and gave advice. If I tell someone I care- Im not being a pro lifer it's part of who I am.

 

[Sk1n1M1n]

But a person ismt going to say the reverse such as your life is worthless, no matter what their stance on the subject is as that's bullying and putting someone and eventually is like convincing them to feel worse about themselves,

Even agreeing to peoples negativity spirals further and what if you are on both sides of the argument.

for example, my bpd leads me to feel suicidal one minute and then the complete opposite quite rapidly often regardless of situation,

 

[TAW122]

I'm sorry to inform you I will say I care- because I honestly do. Especially someone I've come to know here. It's part of being a mom, compassionate person. I know some people just need the peer to peer support here and some will CTB. If I can provide support or advise I try to do my best if someone asks. I've been told by 2 people message me and express they really did not want to CTB and asked advice. I talked with them to find what has brought them to this point and gave advice. If I tell someone I care- Im not being a pro lifer it's part of who I am.

Fair enough, and there are compassionate people out there, however, there is a fine line between caring and respecting one's wishes, decision, option versus caring and imposing "life" onto someone who willingly wishes to CTB and knows that that is what one wishes. I'm mostly referring to the people who are concerned and decide to intervene by obstructing/preventing said person from "freely" exercising their self-deliverance. Those are the kinds of people I detest, not the people who are genuinely concerned but still respect the choices of others.

But a person ismt going to say the reverse such as your life is worthless, no matter what their stance on the subject is as that's bullying and putting someone and eventually is like convincing them to feel worse about themselves,

Even agreeing to peoples negativity spirals further and what if you are on both sides of the argument.

for example, my bpd leads me to feel suicidal one minute and then the complete opposite quite rapidly often regardless of situation,

That's a good point too, and it's not a easy situation at all. I can understand "why" they don't want to say the negative things like "life is worthless" or other things that could be construed as bullying or putting said person down. Yet on the same token, saying some positive platitudes could be annoying and damaging as well. I guess something in between, such as not making an promise (on behalf of the unknown, the universe, or something unrealistic) is one way to go about it as well as something more/less objective, realistic. Again, you make a good point and there is no easy solution.

 

[Ghost2211]

I care about you OP, and your right to make your own choices.

 

[Good4Nothing]

I care about most everyone here, but there's nothing I can do to help anyone. I can barely help myself. Best I can do here is send a sympathetic hug emoji when someone's feeling down. Is that wrong? Should I knock it off?

 

[Sk1n1M1n]

How about being in the middle have a neutral perspective

 

[Good4Nothing]

How about being in the middle have a neutral perspective

"I don't care if you live or die"?

 

[LonelyNick]

The best thing the friend I opened about CBT said is; I'll be sad and I'll miss you but I respect your choice.

Made me sob in relief.

 

[Meditation guide]

they aren't concerned about said person's woes and troubles

They are not able to have empathy. There is a type of narcissist who tries to show how great they are mainly with virtue signaling.

 

[_Kaira_]

I hardly get told "I care" or whatever anymore. My family says "if you're going to do it, no one can stop you." and lately from others "That's a stupid idea."

I honestly have mixed feelings. I don't know whether to be relieved I'm left to my choices, or sad no one at least tries to pretend they care.

 

[Meditation guide]

I honestly have mixed feelings. I don't know whether to be relieved I'm left to my choices, or sad no one at least tries to pretend they care.

I think the idea of killing yourself is what matters, not what others think or if they care. This is something that is personal to only you. Don't expect people to make a show of caring or know what to say or how to act to convince you they care. The focus should be on if you really want to end your life or not. Don't tell others you want to ctb just to see how much they care. That's emotional manipulation. If anyone thinks you are doing that, they can become uncaring.

 

[BipolarGuy]

I uploaded a suicide note to Facebook in March last year and started getting messages from friends saying "so many people love you" and "you have so much support".

B**ch please, I haven't seen you in like 14 years!

 

[_Kaira_]

@Meditation guide I usually don't bring it up, unless I'm asked. I'm open about my problems cause I find it hard to put on a façade for people. Is it really wrong to wish you matter to others? You assuming that I talk about it purely for attention is quite saddening. If my parents didn't abuse me and cared about my wellbeing, who knows, maybe it might've just made my life a little more tolerable. People are usually turned away from any amount of negativity. And sadly, I am a negative person.