😦 religion/Christianity

[inneedrelief]

Anyone believes in the bible? Also you can't change my mind about it either. So anyway will God save me after suicide? I know it can be possible under some circumstances. But were talking about my circumstance. So I can't repent afterwards and I hurt my family in the process. He also says to keep his commandments and it says thou shall not kill and he also says endure till end and you'll be saved. Will I get thrown to the pit?

 

[inneedrelief]

I don't really believe in god myself but if you're circumstances are bad and you've genuinely worked to overcome them many times over then you'd hope you'd be cut some slack.

I feel like you're right

 

[annointed_towers]

In my experience, God is a hateful, malevolent, bloodthirsty God just waiting for an excuse to cast sinners into hell (suicide being a sin).

 

[Twiceler]

The Eastern church doesn't pray for those who committed suicide, it is considered more sinful than any murder accordingly. That is all I know. I don't believe in gods.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

i don't believe in religion , or any god. however since you talk about the bible. what quotes say that there is a hell? or even a heaven? i know the commandement you referenced but that about endure what quote is it? plus that can be interpreted as don't kill others . why don't they explicity say suicide or talk about it or hell?

 

[piryohae3]

God is supposed to be omnipotent and omniscient. The world goes on and even though he has the power to intervene, he does not. Whatever evil happens he allows to happen bc I guess it's part of his plan, whatever it is. Which would mean if I kill myself and god doesn't stop me, then it means I was supposed to kill myself. My suicide was part of his plan. If I kill myself and he doesn't stop me bc he couldn't, that would mean he's not omnipotent.

He supposedly knows everything including the future. Someone's suicide was preordained. If he punishes someone for killing themselves even though he knew it was going to happen and did nothing to stop it, then he is not a just god.

 

[inneedrelief]

God is supposed to be omnipotent and omniscient. The world goes on and even though he has the power to intervene, he does not. Whatever evil happens he allows to happen bc I guess it's part of his plan, whatever it is. Which would mean if I kill myself and god doesn't stop me, then it means I was supposed to kill myself. My suicide was part of his plan. If I kill myself and he doesn't stop me bc he couldn't, that would mean he's not omnipotent.

He supposedly knows everything including the future. Someone's suicide was preordained. If he punishes someone for killing themselves even though he knew it was going to happen and did nothing to stop it, then he is not a just god.

We have free will idk I don't agree with everything you just said

i don't believe in religion , or any god. however since you talk about the bible. what quotes say that there is a hell? or even a heaven? i know the commandement you referenced but that about endure what quote is it? plus that can be interpreted as don't kill others . why don't they explicity say suicide or talk about it or hell?

Matt 10:28; see also 5:29-30; 23:15,33; Luke 10:15; 16:23 endure verse Matthew 24:13-14

 

[ScubaCTB]

There are several people in the Bible who committed suicide, e.g. King Saul, Judas, Abimelech, Samson, Ahithophel, and Zimri. God never specifically punished any of them. King Saul was in a lot of pain from a war wound, so he took his own life. Many of us are in pain as well, whether physical or mental. Also the word "hell" never appears anywhere in the Bible. It's "Shoal," and some scholars question the literal translation.

Source: I went to church every Wednesday and Sunday, plus Sunday school until my parents divorced...and my life went to HELL!!!

 

[inneedrelief]

There are several people in the Bible who committed suicide, e.g. King Saul, Judas, Abimelech, Samson, Ahithophel, and Zimri. God never specifically punished any of them. King Saul was in a lot of pain from a war wound, so he took his own life. Many of us are in pain as well, whether physical or mental. Also the word "hell" never appears anywhere in the Bible. It's "Shoal," and some scholars question the literal translation.

Source: I went to church every Wednesday and Sunday, plus Sunday school until my parents divorced...and my life went to HELL!!!

So I googled and sheol can be referred to as the pit. And some verses say about "hell" is being lake of fire, torment, etc.

 

[ScubaCTB]

The bible does mention hell matt 10:28

Sorry I should have made the distinction. No mention of hell on the Old Testament. Still in the passage you speak of, the original Hebrew word in that passage is "Gehenna," which again, scholars debate the translation. Gehenna is an ancient area of Jerusalem where lepers, homosexuals, etc. were sent because they were outcasts in society. There's no literal word "hell" in Hebrew, which is the original language of the Bible. That's what I should have made clear.

 

[inneedrelief]

Sorry I should have made the distinction. No mention of hell on the Old Testament. Still in the passage you speak of, the original Hebrew word in that passage is "Gehenna," which again, scholars debate the translation. Gehenna is an ancient area of Jerusalem where lepers, homosexuals, etc. were sent because they were outcasts in society. There's no literal word "hell" in Hebrew, which is the original language of the Bible. That's what I should have made clear.

Okay I change my answer can you look at it

 

[Raindancer]

There is only one unforgivable sin and that is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. As a Christian I struggle with wanting to CTB very much. But I believe God knows our hearts and sometimes there is a point where it's impossible to go on. So for me, I believe if the time comes, God will see my heart and know I have tried my best and did everything I could, that the pain was just too long and too great.

 

[ScubaCTB]

So I googled and sheol can be referred to as the pit. And some verses say about "hell" is being lake of fire, torment, etc.

The lake of fire reference is just another example of God's wrath. For instance when He destroyed Sodom and Gommorah, "the Lord rained down burning sulfur" on both cities. The Lake of Fire is in Revelation 20. It's the second death, described as a place of torment where all the false prophets and ultimate sinners are stuck in perpetuity.

The Lake of Fire is not literally a pool of lava or something. It's a place that I've interpreted as Earth; a place of perpetual torment and sin. Again, God did not punish anyone in the Bible who committed suicide. So my belief is that you finally escape the perpetual reincarnation cycle here (in hell) with suicide, if your righteous and murdered, or super righteous living until old age (which is hard for anyone to do in this world). Although I hated going to church, all the suffering in my life started when my mom and dad divorced and we stopped going to church. Divorce is only forgivable if the reason was adultery.

 

[inneedrelief]

What is sheol...so sheol is an evil place right cuz those that don't choose God choose the devil he says "your of your father the devil.." and the devil is evil because evil is sin and evil is the absence of good.

 

[Tobacco]

I don't like the judeo-christian religion at all.

 

[FujoshiNeet]

If god were real, why can't you just pray to be okay?

 

[ScubaCTB]

@inneedrelief Sheol is the grave, or the state of death. Jacob said he would still be sad in Sheol because Joseph died. I highly doubt the Israelite patriarch (Jacob) went to the hell we're taught exists.

All the translations of the Bible since whenever it was written (again debatable) have added and subtracted all kinds of stuff. The Book of Enoch and at least 50 more original books were eliminated from the King James Bible, which was/is the most widely circulated book ever in the world. And in reading that, and seeing Sheol in that book, it also just means death and/or darkness, almost like you just cease to exist. Hell, in my opinion, is this world we live in now.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Religions are man made to control the masses of people by fear.

Why did god (that in case he exists) create you and how you are in a way he doesn't want you to be? why doesn't he change your circumstances that are most likely responsible for the fact you wanna ctb? Just to punish you afterward in hell forever?

Truly a sadistic god, right? But he's almighty, all-forgiving, all-merciful.

 

[inneedrelief]

@inneedrelief Sheol is the grave, or the state of death. Jacob said he would still be sad in Sheol because Joseph died. I highly doubt the Israelite patriarch (Jacob) went to the hell we're taught exists.

All the translations of the Bible since whenever it was written (again debatable) have added and subtracted all kinds of stuff. The Book of Enoch and at least 50 more original books were eliminated from the King James Bible, which was/is the most widely circulated book ever in the world. And in reading that, and seeing Sheol in that book, it also just means death and/or darkness, almost like you just cease to exist. Hell, in my opinion, is this world we live in now.

Ok what about dreams people had about hell and outer body experiences where they saw demons and fire or heat are they just all liars?

@inneedrelief Sheol is the grave, or the state of death. Jacob said he would still be sad in Sheol because Joseph died. I highly doubt the Israelite patriarch (Jacob) went to the hell we're taught exists.

All the translations of the Bible since whenever it was written (again debatable) have added and subtracted all kinds of stuff. The Book of Enoch and at least 50 more original books were eliminated from the King James Bible, which was/is the most widely circulated book ever in the world. And in reading that, and seeing Sheol in that book, it also just means death and/or darkness, almost like you just cease to exist. Hell, in my opinion, is this world we live in now.

He also said "I'll take vengeance" so everyone will get the same results "not exist" but what about vengeance

 

[Praestat_Mori]

They never manage to answer or respond to these questions. They either become defensive or prefer to ignore it altogether. It's like they'd rather believe in these things instead of following rational logic OR it's more insidious than that and they're just trying to instill more fear and uncertainty in others by arguing their case. I used to believe in an afterlife but I'm so put off by the cultish approach to these discussions when it comes to religious people, hell even spiritual people, that I'm convinced it's all just bs and not worth the time or effort in debating anymore.

Nobody can ever answer to things we can neither prove nor disprove. Some religious people are the worst extremists ever existing but this is how our brain works it can make someone an extremist over time.

Shortly before I wrote my comment I listened to someone explaining his thoughts about god and believes and the question why god created Adam and Eve putting them (obviously knowing)into a situation with that apple tree and the snake if he already knew, that they won't be able to resist, which will inevitably lead to be kicked out of paradise.

If I was the creator I would build my world in perfection not in imperfection knowing the creatures coming into existence in this world won't obey my orders very well and knowing that most of them won't do it or even can't do it.

 

[inneedrelief]

They never manage to answer or respond to these questions. They either become defensive or prefer to ignore it altogether. Post like these just feel like they're meant to instill fear and uncertainty in others by arguing their case. I used to enjoy having these discussions on whether there's an afterlife, hell or heaven. But this willfully ignorant, dismissive and cultish approach by religious people, hell even spiritual people, is so common and off-putting that I'm convinced it's all just bs and not worth the time or effort anymore.

Believe what you want but don't act like you don't know what you're doing by having these kinds of discussions here.

Are you talking about me? I literally said I believe in the bible and no one can change my mind and they're saying it's man made do I have to just repeat that no one can change my mind about the bible? i already made up my mind that's it's real to me. They're literally tryna state a 'fact' at me I don't have time for that
Yeah and your a hypocrite yourself bc you already stated it's man made you can't prove to me why it is your going based off things you don't understand and I don't need to respond to someone that's disrespecting me saying what I believe in is manmade

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Yes, that post was aimed at you. If you're not willing to change your mind despite people trying to reason with you, what's the point? Like the post below says, no one can prove and disprove. It'll come down to your own personal interpretation and if that's the lens you wish to see death than that fear is unfortunately never going to go away.

I don't agree that things can't be disproven. I think these concepts were manufactured the way they are because it'll always take for us to die in order to find out for ourselves what's true. But as someone whose tried to dabble in things like the occult, the paranormal and spiritualism, it all amounts to nothing. Literally nothing happens. I just find it hard to believe that all these mystical things took place in this world as we know it. Even the process of our collapsing civilization is slow, tedious and boring. Why do people expect anything but if not solely for metaphor, fiction and fantasy?

We humans are the only animals who created such kind of consciousness, by now.

In regards of the existence of a creator why is believing and following the orders of this specific creator not a human (or animals) instinct? It'd be the same for all humans but actually we have and had hundreds if not thousands of different religions since humans exist on earth.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

These religions came about as placeholders for forces of nature we did not understand at the time. That's all it's ever been. Mythology that'd later be replaced by science or reduced to lessons, warnings and metaphors to broaden our understanding of history and human nature. We don't burn witches at the stake anymore because we now call them herbalists, botanists, etc. I just don't understand the point in believing something that only makes you fearful, that is so far removed from reality that it can neither be proven or denied yet has a hand in every decision you make in life, but to each their own I guess.

Science - is proven by experiments - mythology still exists but cannot be proven by any means. Throughout of human history "witches" weren't burnt and prosecuted - that happened only in the middle ages - that's sth that happened bc religions saw them as a threat to their believes which also had no prove! I'm sure that so much wisdom was lost bc of "religions" that suppressed natural life and rituals existing for many thousands of years prior.

Interesting and fruitful discussion btw. :-)

 

[ScubaCTB]

Ok what about dreams people had about hell and outer body experiences where they saw demons and fire or heat are they just all liars?

He also said "I'll take vengeance" so everyone will get the same results "not exist" but what about vengeance

I think, and again, just my opinion as the stupidest smart person in the world, that dreams are the gateway to knowing what may possibly happen after death and before birth in this world.

I had thousands of lucid dreams when I was younger, meaning I was aware that I was dreaming, and I could control what I was doing in the dream. Like when I was a teen, I'd be ready to have sex with a chick in a lucid dream, and I knew it, and then I'd wake up and be mad! My lucid dreams stopped around age 30. But several of them scared me because I was aware I was sleep and dreaming, and could control everything in the dream, but the situation and world I was in was beyond my comprehension. Was it demons? Was it God? Was it a post-death world? I don't know. But somebody somewhere was telling me something.

As far as vengeance, God does so to the ultimate sinners. Sodom and Gommorah we already talked about. The story of Miriam and Aaron, when God gave Miriam leprosy because she did not believe in him, is a good example. Romans 12.

You're taking me back to my childhood with this discussion and all my Bible studies I was forced to do. Whether I liked it or not (going to church and Sunday school all the time), it reminds me of the only pleasant, good and happy time in my life. Thank you.

 

[thedevilwithin]

whether you want to be convinced or not, there is reality. god is not real.

 

[ScubaCTB]

They never manage to answer or respond to these questions. They either become defensive or prefer to ignore it altogether. Post like these just feel like they're meant to instill fear and uncertainty in others by arguing their case. I used to enjoy having these discussions on whether there's an afterlife, hell or heaven. But this willfully ignorant, dismissive and cultish approach by religious people, hell even spiritual people, is so common and off-putting that I'm convinced it's all just bs and not worth the time or effort anymore.

Believe what you want but don't act like you don't know what you're doing by having these kinds of discussions here.

This is so unfair and disingenuous, and with all due respect, rude and part of the reason I will CTB. Religion is faith. You have faith in something. In the case of Christianity, it's Jesus Christ and God. In the case of Islam, it's God and Muhammad. Hindus have faith in the 3 G's and oneness with God. Faith isn't necessarily science, but science is definitely not faith. And if we're being honest, most Christians, Muslims, Hindus, etc. are not devout, and not really living by the commandments of their faiths.

I left my church decades ago because I try and be understanding of all people. But it's mostly liberals who want their cake and eat it too. LGBTQ+ is a faith by definition, and is the most powerful faith in the USA and Europe today. Men have penises and testicles. That is a 100,000+ year fact. But the LGBTQ faith says people with penises and testicles are women or can be women. They have faith in that premise. But if non-members of that faith point out the obvious, they are attacked like you're doing now.

LGBTQ is faith, and certainly not science. Christianity is not science either. I'm fine with that. And I think this is the most evil divide among humans. But when the same LGBTQ faith says these nasty things about Christians, Muslim, etc. faiths, I cannot and do not respect them either. There are other rude and hypocritical comments in this thread. But i just don't have the energy right now. My CTB cat is entertaining me with the ball on a rope thing I made today! :)

 

[Forever Sleep]

Sorry to say this but- no one here is going to be able to reasure you either way. There isn't factual evidence for either. You're talking about beliefs. Your own beliefs in fact- which you've already said can't be swayed. If you do respect religious teachers- priests, vicars- maybe try and talk to them. It's going to be very difficult to get a definitive answer though. A lot seems based on interpretation.

Personally, regardless, I struggle with the whole concept of- everything's ok if you say you're sorry afterwards! Those peadophille priests who molested the children in their care time and time again should be in hell to my thinking. You can't be all that sorry about something if you keep doing it! So- if they got in to heaven because they're part of God's fan club and they said they were sorry- I'm sorry but- something is very wrong! But- yeah- my apologies- you can probably tell- I don't like religion very much. I know that doesn't help you. I think you need to talk to other religious people ideally.

Out of curiosity- do you think you've done enough to get into heaven even if you don't kill yourself? I guess it depends on how strict the rules are I guess. I hope we all get what we want in the end. I used to love the idea of heaven. Now, I think- if there is a God, they're moral compass is way off- so, I'm truly hoping there's nothing personally.

 

[ScubaCTB]

Sorry, you lost me at LGBTQ+ is a faith. I hope this doesn't come off as homophobic, because as a member of the LGBTQ+ that's just a ridiculous take OP.

Well sorry, but you lost me by belittling and insulting @inneedrelief, Christianity in general, and their beliefs. You said some nasty stuff for no reason other than to be nasty. And I'm too old and I'll be dead soon anyway to pretend anymore.

Is there 100% scientific proof that God exists? NO.

Is there 100% scientific proof that humans with penises and testicles are women? HELL NO!

But you value your faith and deem it the only and sole reality/truth and belittle others. That's what is wrong with this world.

 

[Manfrotto99]

I think we should respect and allow others to express their believes whatever they are. We are not here to argue our point, but to support others who share our need to CTB.

There always seems to be an attack on Christianity, yet if someone said they believe in Buddha there would be no criticisms. I realise that Christianity has a lot to answer for but it is largely society and culture and sick individuals to blame for that.

The bible does not mention anything about suicide. while it says that killing is a sin, you don't need to believe in Christianity to realise that it goes against our given nature to live...that's why we have a survival instinct, so in that sense I personally believe it is a sin or whatever you want to call it. Depending on what Christian doctrine you adhere to "a sin is a sin" the kind of sin dosn't matter and who hasn't sinned in relation to the bible? David in the bible committed murder and adultery, yet it is said that he was a man after god's own heart.

Also Christ died for sinners so we may be set free. If we believe our act of suicide is greater than Christ's gift of redemption then we are saying that Christs suffering was in vain and we are idolising and raising ourselves up against a merciful and gracious God who gave his beloved son for us. Grace is given freely because Christ died for us, not because of anything we have done or are going to do. I personally will continue to praise a loving and gracious God when I CBT - Gods grace is unfathomable and even in our most sinful state, the grace of God never leaves us. How amazing is that!

Hoping I do not get a lot of backlash for expressing my beliefs. I do not mean to defend anyone, but if someone is struggling with their believe in Christianity and their desire to CTB, then its important to keep ones eyes on the real message of the Bible as given to us in the New testament, and not some interpretation that is not based on the unrelenting love and compassion of Christ.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Sorry, you lost me at LGBTQ+ is a faith. I hope this doesn't come off as homophobic, because as a member of the LGBTQ+ that's just a ridiculous take OP. Also, I never said science is faith, my whole post was to demonstrate why it's important that we differentiate the two and why these beliefs should be acknowledged for what they are and the purpose they should serve in society through a more modern lens. We need to stop using faith as a shield for people who only use it to exploit, sow doubt and fear. If you have a problem with that then that's fine because my opinion on the matter isn't going to change the way the world works.

Also some beliefs should be open to attack, just because it gives people faith doesn't mean it's exempt from criticism or ridicule. That much should be obvious. I'm sorry but I just don't really care much about people's subjective feelings on the matter when these beliefs are what caused a record amount of death, progressive stagnancy and suffering throughout history. Science has as well, but at least it can be tweaked, is subject to change and open to criticism and peer review.

I do understand what you're saying and to be honest- I can feel like this too. I do feel a desire to attack faith and God because I think they can do a lot of damage.

That said- I feel like the OP is genuinely asking- from a Christian standpoint- 'Will I go to hell if I do this?' To them and other religious people. Even to people like me- who are more on the fence- it's a legitimate concern. It may not make any sense to someone who is 100% sure there isn't a God but- it can be difficult to shake these beliefs if you have been raised with them.

It's like any feeling or strong belief really. Some people are terribly concerned about how their corpse will look after death. Others think that's a kind of ridiculous way to think. We all appoach death and suicide with our own unique worries.

I think, because maybe we hold our own hostility towards religion, it becomes harder to sympathise- but- we ought to really I feel. This forum is here to discuss any concern around suicide and the afterlife is one for quite a few members.