Discussion Reflection on suicide by our society

[Tristevie]

Anyone who has never felt the urge to die should not have the right to express themselves on the subject, to tell us that "life is beautiful", and especially this legend "suicide is an act of cowardice".

I am well placed to know and especially understand that it requires enormous courage, of course our society does not want to position itself on the subject and consider the suicidal act as an abnormal thing, and the person who finds the strength to get out of his permanent suffering as deviant, see crazy ...

According to me, to be normal is to be in a norm. And we know very well that the norm is imposed on us by our society, which paradoxically can consider something as abnormal in the past, but totally accept it in the era we are currently living.

I have the impression that what one is, "suicidal", goes beyond the normal-thinking ones, a linear thought does not have the structural possibility to encompass a suicidal thought, and especially places the act before the sufferings so what are the main causes of our self-destruction.

We all have an idea of what is normal and what is not.
The education we have received is a standardization, it gives us the notions of good and bad, normal and its opposite. I am a little afraid that the notion of normality that is imposed on us is purely a principle of exclusion from others.

Ex: he made a suicide attempt, or he committed suicide, and automatically he is no longer considered normal by the group that surrounds him and of course by society.

The most burning news makes us think that civil society, inspired by Judeo-Christian ethics, can not legally grant the individual the right to die, whatever the reason. But history teaches us that other societies, as far apart in space as in time, have given suicide the highest moral virtues.

Thank you to the people of SS who will read these lines, and a big thank you to SS to exist.

Greg

 

[cornflowerblue]

Anyone who has never felt the urge to die should not have the right to express themselves on the subject, to tell us that "life is beautiful", and especially this legend "suicide is an act of cowardice".

I am well placed to know and especially understand that it requires enormous courage, of course our society does not want to position itself on the subject and consider the suicidal act as an abnormal thing, and the person who finds the strength to get out of his permanent suffering as deviant, see crazy ...

According to me, to be normal is to be in a norm. And we know very well that the norm is imposed on us by our society, which paradoxically can consider something as abnormal in the past, but totally accept it in the era we are currently living.

I have the impression that what one is, "suicidal", goes beyond the normal-thinking ones, a linear thought does not have the structural possibility to encompass a suicidal thought, and especially places the act before the sufferings so what are the main causes of our self-destruction.

We all have an idea of what is normal and what is not.
The education we have received is a standardization, it gives us the notions of good and bad, normal and its opposite. I am a little afraid that the notion of normality that is imposed on us is purely a principle of exclusion from others.

Ex: he made a suicide attempt, or he committed suicide, and automatically he is no longer considered normal by the group that surrounds him and of course by society.

The most burning news makes us think that civil society, inspired by Judeo-Christian ethics, can not legally grant the individual the right to die, whatever the reason. But history teaches us that other societies, as far apart in space as in time, have given suicide the highest moral virtues.

Thank you to the people of SS who will read these lines, and a big thank you to SS to exist.

Greg

Most people actually do experience a wish to die, or full-on suicidal ideation, at some point. Some of the most pushy people are those who have been extremely suicidal and recovered. Just food for thought.

 

[Tristevie]

@cornflowerblue yes I agree that it can happen to anyone to think about suicide, but express it loudly is very badly seen by all people, no one has signed a contract with life in birth, and suicide according to our society must be inspired for reasons of incurable disease (cancer or other), so do you think that suicide is a manifestation of the freedom an individual has to dispose of himself, or on the contrary an answer to social pressure?

 

[Thorn]

Most people actually do experience a wish to die, or full-on suicidal ideation, at some point. Some of the most pushy people are those who have been extremely suicidal and recovered. Just food for thought.

The only way I see this "recovery" truly working, is after a lobotomy, feeling happy in a soft padded cell.
I somehow feel that the "recovery" is just bitterness, and denying others a way out is hiding a weakness, could also be selling their "strength". Or both.

 

[cornflowerblue]

@cornflowerblue yes I agree that it can happen to anyone to think about suicide, but express it loudly is very badly seen by all people, no one has signed a contract with life in birth, and suicide according to our society must be inspired for reasons of incurable disease (cancer or other), so do you think that suicide is a manifestation of the freedom an individual has to dispose of himself, or on the contrary an answer to social pressure?

I was saying that the rule "Anyone who has never felt the urge to die should not have the right to express themselves on the subject" that your posted started with wouldn't actually do much for changing how suicide is viewed or what the laws are, since a lot of the anti-suicide people have had at least passive ideation if not full-blown attempts themselves. Having a personal experience doesn't automatically create empathy for others in the same position.

 

[BeenDoneForSoLong]

I was saying that the rule "Anyone who has never felt the urge to die should not have the right to express themselves on the subject" that your posted started with wouldn't actually do much for changing how suicide is viewed or what the laws are, since a lot of the anti-suicide people have had at least passive ideation if not full-blown attempts themselves. Having a personal experience doesn't automatically create empathy for others in the same position.

Agreed.
Personal experience can create an opposite reaction opposed to empathy...
When you grow from experience you can become entirely distant from said experience.

"I got over it why can't you"kind of attitude- without actually being ABLE to empathise with what made them feel that way in the first place. Which I think is especially relevant for suicidal depression; how can you empathise with something you can't really explain in a tangible way?

For example I simply can't empathise with the time in my life where I DIDNT want to die, I'm a completely different person now. I can vaguely REMEMBER it but I certainly can't empathise with that part of my life. It's so distant from me now, and makes it harder to explain the severity of my depression, as I can't really empathise with a time I wasn't depressed.

 

[cornflowerblue]

Agreed.
Personal experience can create an opposite reaction opposed to empathy...
When you grow from experience you can become entirely distant from said experience.

"I got over it why can't you"kind of attitude- without actually being ABLE to empathise with what made them feel that way in the first place. Which I think is especially relevant for suicidal depression; how can you empathise with something you can't really explain in a tangible way?

For example I simply can't empathise with the time in my life where I DIDNT want to die, I'm a completely different person now. I can vaguely REMEMBER it but I certainly can't empathise with that part of my life. It's so distant from me now, and makes it harder to explain the severity of my depression, as I can't really empathise with a time I wasn't depressed.

Just look at the prevalence of suicidal ideation, and this is just the people who admitted it. https://www.uptodate.com/contents/suicidal-ideation-and-behavior-in-adults

So more likely than not, some of the people making all of these anti-choice laws and perpetuating stigma are people who HAVE wanted to die.

 

[Tristevie]

@cornflowerblue « Anyone who has never felt the urge to die should not have the right to express themselves on the subject » there is no rule established in this sentence but just my opinion that does not pretend to be the truth.

Empathy is unique to everyone with or without experience in suffering.

This self-destructive behavior, just as absurd as it seems to anti-suicide people, is a personal choice.

Suicide is the ultimate violence that an individual can inflict. As such, it is a complex mixture of rational and passionate elements that do not take into account the laws and even less the well-thought anti-suicide.

 

[BeenDoneForSoLong]

@cornflowerblue « , is a personal choice.

Suicide is the ultimate violence that an individual can inflict. As such, it is a complex mixture of rational and passionate elements that do not take into account the laws and even less the well-thought anti-suicide.

Yea society will never work like this though. Which it shouldn't .Our laws exist BECAUSE of personal passion . "your honour I was really passionate about fucking her that's why I raped her", will never, and should never stand up in court.

A bit of a strawman but you get what I'm saying I'm sure.