Question for theists here

[wildflowers1996]

Do you not worry that you're doing the "wrong thing" by ctb?
Like why would God make the survival instinct so strong if He is ok with us ctb?

I feel like I want permission from God to ctb I know that might sound ridiculous (since I don't necessarily even believe in God) but I feel so scared I'm going to be punished for it

 

[zeek]

I know its wrong to ctb
but I also know that the Lord is most forgiving.
maybe He wont, but ill ctb in hopes the He will forgive me

 

[todeswunsch]

Not a theist myself, more into ignosticism. But I like thinking about those things.

The church that I grew up on would say that CTB is a murder and unrepentable sin therefore leads to hell, but I never understood it that way.

From my understanding, good and bad things are part of it all. Is by His will that we are under this situation, and there's no meaning to punish you for that. At maximum you're being "weak" for not enduring these trials, but not a sinful person. A punishment makes no sense IMO.

"I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, YHVH, do all these things." Isaiah:45
יוֹצֵר אוֹר וּבוֹרֵא חֹשֶׁךְ, עֹשֶׂה שָׁלוֹם וּבוֹרֵא רָע; אֲנִי יְהוָה, עֹשֶׂה כָל-אֵלֶּה.

I'm not a believer but I'm more into the esoteric stuff, specially Thelema, and from that perspective, the punishment - the hell - is in the earth already. We have both heaven and hell in the material world, and the punishment from our actions are also in this realm. The urge to CTB is a punish in itself, and after CTB you will no longer experience Life - therefore unable to experience the heaven-in-life - dissolving into the light of non-existence of Ain Sof.

A little crazy but makes sense to me

 

[Teleftaía Anapnoí]

I am a Hellenic polytheist, I believe in the gods of Hellas and I am engaged in a process of reviving their cults in a respectful way with the indigenous people of Greece. The Greeks do not condemn suicide like Christians, there were their restrictions, including political ones, but it is important to remember that even Socrates committed suicide and one of the most famous stories contains suicide to some extent. I'm talking about the Trojan War and Achilles. He knew that if he went to war he would die, he went to seek honor. It's another type of suicide. But I keep thinking, if I'm suffering so much alive in this world, why wouldn't the gods welcome me? There are no reasons. I pray that Hermes takes my soul and cares for me through the process, that if there really is an afterlife it won't be something more traumatic than life itself.

I'm not a believer but I'm more into the esoteric stuff, specially Thelema, and from that perspective, the punishment - the hell - is in the earth already. We have both heaven and hell in the material world, and the punishment from our actions are also in this realm. The urge to CTB is a punish in itself, and after CTB you will no longer experience Life - therefore unable to experience the heaven-in-life - dissolving into the light of non-existence of Ain Sof.

A little crazy but makes sense to me

It's cool to know that there are esoteric people here. I really like Crowley's writings too, I wish we didn't live in the Aeon of Horus right away. I wanted to jump to Maat and avoid the pain for a bit. I think I'll kill myself soon, I hope it's according to my will.

 

[letmejoindeath]

This argument is debunked by just reading the Bible.

Yea it's against the Ten Commandments not to murder and ctb is murdering yourself. The Bible also talks about your body being a temple (which Jesus destroyed when he was unhappy with the temple).

However, the entire premise of Christianity is that Christ died for our sins and they are already forgiven as long as we never stop striving to be better people and believe in his teachings. Christ himself didn't align with the church folks and actually shunned them.

His apostles were thieves, homeless, and the outcasts, the same people who those who identify as Christians turn away and condemn today. Things were actually not much different back then when it came to the self-righteous and money in the church.

John 3:16 is repeated a lot but I think John 3:17 has even more meaning.
"For God sent his son into the world not to condemn the world, but to save the world from itself"

I don't necessarily claim that I am a modern a Christian but I have read the Bible about 5-10 times and it's hard not to see profound knowledge and wisdom within its contents.

Whether you believe the stories are true or just very wise parables, the Bible is definitely a must read even if just for historical literacy and insight.

Oh also, the first few paragraphs of Ezekiel describe aliens descending onto earth from the heavens in a spaceship! There are definitely some gems in there you wont hear about in church!

 

[todeswunsch]

It's cool to know that there are esoteric people here. I really like Crowley's writings too, I wish we didn't live in the Aeon of Horus right away. I wanted to jump to Maat and avoid the pain for a bit. I think I'll kill myself soon, I hope it's according to my will.

Sadly the pain is part of our process it seems, unfortunate we are.
Even if its not intuitive at first, our true will can lead us to suicide.
That said, I'm still mad to having to even have to be brought to existence, just to suffer until there's no escape but suicide.
Hopefully there's no after-life nor rebirth haha
Do what thou whilst, frater!

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Like why would God make the survival instinct so strong if He is ok with us ctb?

Whether there is a god or not: From an evolutionary point of view SI is so important for any species to survive. SI is protecting us in our daily life. Yes it disturbs so much when we want to CTB but also from an evolutionary point of view a species cannot survive when most of the individuals kill themselves.

A punishment makes no sense IMO.

That makes no sense bc if there was a god who created humans only to let them suffer to make life for some of them like hell so that they have to consider suicide then why would this god want to punish them in hell for ever for trying to escape?

That's truly a sadistic god then ... That doesn't make sense.

 

[WAITING TO DIE]

God if it exists, is perfectly willing to let people suffer, often in horrendous ways, yet is supposedly pissed off when we ctb.
If god is supposed to be a merciful god, he would see ctb as an act of mercy upon ourselves.
So why would a merciful god not want us to end our suffering ?

 

[Praestat_Mori]

So why would a merciful god not want us to end our suffering ?

An almighty, all-forgiving, all-merciful god should stop suffering once and for all. Why did he create suffering at all? That could have been avoided.

 

[WAITING TO DIE]

An almighty, all-forgiving, all-merciful god should stop suffering once and for all. Why did he create suffering at all? That could have been avoided.

Exactly true.

 

[moondazed]

This argument is debunked by just reading the Bible.

Yea it's against the Ten Commandments not to murder and ctb is murdering yourself. The Bible also talks about your body being a temple (which Jesus destroyed when he was unhappy with the temple).

However, the entire premise of Christianity is that Christ died for our sins and they are already forgiven as long as we never stop striving to be better people and believe in his teachings. Christ himself didn't align with the church folks and actually shunned them.

His apostles were thieves, homeless, and the outcasts, the same people who those who identify as Christians turn away and condemn today. Things were actually not much different back then when it came to the self-righteous and money in the church.

John 3:16 is repeated a lot but I think John 3:17 has even more meaning.
"For God sent his son into the world not to condemn the world, but to save the world from itself"

I don't necessarily claim that I am a modern a Christian but I have read the Bible about 5-10 times and it's hard not to see profound knowledge and wisdom within its contents.

Whether you believe the stories are true or just very wise parables, the Bible is definitely a must read even if just for historical literacy and insight.

Oh also, the first few paragraphs of Ezekiel describe aliens descending onto earth from the heavens in a spaceship! There are definitely some gems in there you wont hear about in church!

I started reading the Interlinear bible recently. I'm almost done with Genesis so I've got a ways to go. I went to sunday school for a little bit as a kid, and have not very pushy religious family. I had an understanding but never really spent time with it. I don't know anything for sure, but it is nice to read the notorious thing in full.

 

[EternalShore]

Jesus died for our sins. This include sewer slide. If we have faith in Him and His payment for our sins on the cross, He is merciful and will forgive us of our sins, even one such as permanent and world-ending as sewer slide~
ofc, He doesn't want us to sewer slide, but He created the world to be a wonderful place for us to live in. [I cried after writing that btw] ofc, it's not obviously! xD Satan and our sin has corrupted it seemingly beyond repair. God never says it won't be too much for us, He merely says that He'll be with us through it all. I'm sure He'll understand if it really does become too much...

 

[ThisIsLife]

God is forgiving and Jesus died for our sins.

 

[wildflowers1996]

I don't understand - if Jesus died for our sins then why doesn't God just kill us all now so we can go to heaven?

 

[SpencerSees]

I know it's the right choice, i've had dreams

 

[hermestrimegistus]

I'm not an abrahamist so I don't believe in traditional religion, if anything the closest thing I believe in is essentially a heretic religion and that belief system is directly against suicide. Which honestly sucks. Also when I was going to CTB about 12 years ago, as I was going to attempt all the electricity on my block went out so ever since then I've been scared to try again. I just want a better more reliable method and the ability to stop believing in what I believe in and just do it

 

[zel]

Do you not worry that you're doing the "wrong thing" by ctb?
Like why would God make the survival instinct so strong if He is ok with us ctb?

I feel like I want permission from God to ctb I know that might sound ridiculous (since I don't necessarily even believe in God) but I feel so scared I'm going to be punished for it

It's quite irritating to see the predictable crowd of fired up atheists so eager to pipe in with their comments when your question was clearly addressed to theists.

Anywho... yes, it's probably wrong. It also feels somewhat selfish (but then again, so are many other things, like the demands of others in exchange for what should have been sacrifice).

How do I deal with that? Well I hope and pray I will be excused one final, selfish act. God has certainly been very forgiving of others for much worse.

 

[deadtomorrow]

I don't believe in god, or atleast a "good" god. It's clear that he doesn't exist, because if he existed, and or was "good" he wouldn't make such an unlovable genetic abomination such as myself. Maybe he does and just has a cruel sense of humor. Whoever the god is, he clearly doesn't have a plan for me.

 

[hibikikyuxx]

Like why would God make the survival instinct so strong if He is ok with us ctb?

Humans have survival instincts because we humans are animals. Humans evolved from earlier apes.



Evolution has taught us to want to survive. Just think about the stone age. The humans back then needed to hunt to survive. And that's how we got our survival instinct, we evolved.

I feel like I want permission from God to ctb I know that might sound ridiculous (since I don't necessarily even believe in God) but I feel so scared I'm going to be punished for it

There is no reason to believe that God exists because there is no proof of his existence. Why would you be punished? I remember that back when I was a kid, my catholic parents kept trying to make me afraid by talking about the Krampus. It's all a bunch of fairy tale stories. There is nothing selfish about suicide, nobody asked to be born, and if God exists, then he's a evil piece of shit who allowed abuse, rape, murder, and wars to happen.