Question For Non-US Members

[Ligottian]

I was listening to a podcast earlier today and the guest made the observation that there is a cult of positivity in America and a hostility to philosophical pessimism that doesn't exist in other countries. I strongly suspect he is right. As an American who has never lived abroad, I'd appreciate any input on this subject.

 

[BigG91]

I was listening to a podcast earlier today and the guest made the observation that there is a cult of positivity in America and a hostility to philosophical pessimism that doesn't exist in other countries. I strongly suspect he is right. As an American who has never lived abroad, I'd appreciate any input on this subject.

I think that's true actually from the Americans I've met and stuff I've seen in the news and online.
I've never been to the US ... It's just my opinion

 

[Rational man]

Thats interesting. Thanks for asking. As an Englishman, i agree with you and I like the Americans for their outgoing attitudes. The British are generally pessimistic but when we look deeper, we see similar difficulties in our countries. I see picture's of street people in LA and i think...how do you put a positive spin on that awfulness!?. Debt and foodbanks are rife in Britain and we see this on the news very often. I know several Americans who live in Britain now. I think their characteristics have changed somewhat to the realisation that positivity is recognised but its also okay to be negative when we're not good!

 

[Pluto]

Something unique about the US is that it is the last of the great 20th century powers (Ottoman Empire, Imperialist Japan, Nazi Germany, British Empire, USSR, etc.) to have never been humbled into a radical reform. At least, not yet.

The toxic positivity is a part of the war mindset, as is the habit of normalising extreme military spending at the expense of basic living standards for underclass citizens. As an example, the WWI-era Spanish Flu had nothing to do with Spain, but was named as such because none of the at-war powers wanted to admit to going through a pandemic. Note how much of the country was eager to lap up misinformation about the modern COVID pandemic being 'fake news' in a similar manner.

A more recent trend has been the division of the country into two political halves, both of which project All Things Evil™ onto the opposition. Implicit is a universal yet obviously false sense of superiority despite an increasingly negative view of society. A part of this black and white view of the world is a universal love affair with victimhood and outrage. Of course this situation has been exacerbated by the Zuckerbergs and Putins of the world, but such inability to unite appears to be the rip in the hull of the slowly sinking Titanic.

Though less shamelessly insane to outside observers, we have plenty of toxic positivity in Australia. People are expected to pretend that everything is going great in our lives even when it's not. The origin of this is perhaps our attempts to differentiate ourselves from the 'whingeing poms' or to dismiss the numerous valid criticisms of our historical treatment of Indigenous peoples or our extraordinary rate of animal extinctions. Faux smiles all round.

 

[Ligottian]

Thats interesting. Thanks for asking. As an Englishman, i agree with you and I like the Americans for their outgoing attitudes. The British are generally pessimistic but when we look deeper, we see similar difficulties in our countries. I see picture's of street people in LA and i think...how do you put a positive spin on that awfulness!?. Debt and foodbanks are rife in Britain and we see this on the news very often. I know several Americans who live in Britain now. I think their characteristics have changed somewhat to the realisation that positivity is recognised but its also okay to be negative when we're not good!

Your reply is also interesting. Personally, I find that overly cheery people tend to get on my nerves. I've heard of the famous British stiff upper lip. Some years ago, I saw an online news story about an elderly British man who lost his wife and his house in a fire. "It's all very annoying", the man was quoted. Talk about understatement.

 

[Ta555]

Not from the US and yes. Sometimes the US seems crazy to me. I also think it's because of the overwhelming presence of religion/Christianity in the culture so that there's this idea that everything is God's will or you just need to pray or god is looking out for you etc. This is also why a lot of people don't seem help because they think their problems exist because they're not being a good Christian or whatever. There's lots I could say about this but I'm too tired. I've watched enough atheist call-in shows to see how people are forced and bullied to put up with suffering instead of seeking real help or ending their lives because they're told they're just not praying hard enough or whatever. I'm so glad I'm not an American tbh. No offense to all the cool, rational USA residents.

 

[unimaginativelamp]

Is it a cult of positivity, or is it a hatred of intellectualism, plus an unprecedented amount of arrogance and prone to denialism? Our "positive attitude" is justification for our deep racism, economic inequality, growing homelessness, we still don't have universal health care, we blatantly keep people of color from voting, and we have an entire generation in debt that we're never paying off because we had the nerve to demand an education. We're so far right, Sanders is called a communist, when he's left of center at best by every other country's standard.

 

[Sunset Limited]

Years ago I played online multiplayer games. I had American friends. It was very nice to play games and chat with them. Cheerful people. Of course, this is my experience with a group of people I play with. I have no general idea.

 

[magicalsarcoma]

I have heard something similar about the cult of suffering in Russia. It's not a lie that our people walk almost only with sour faces.
I assume that Christianity in our region is turned not as "you should pray more, and then it will feel better", but as "the human race originally deserved suffering and must endure". People justify the shit in their lives by saying that it could have been worse, it used to be worse, it was worse in the USSR, it was worse in the Russian Empire, it was worse during the Tatar yoke, hah, so what is happening now can be tolerated.
Against the background of the war, our shitty president brings to those who believe him, not some hopes for success and minimal losses, but words like "the enemy side will just die, and we will die, but we will go to heaven." And people eat this shit
I remember some proverbs like "if you didn't live richly, there's nothing to start with", "there is no person without sadness, and if there is, then it is not a person", "it's sad to live, but it's sickening to die", "other laughter responds with crying", "laughing for no reason is a sign of foolishness". And the literature we are passing through is really a manual about how terrible everything can be

 

[Ligottian]

I have heard something similar about the cult of suffering in Russia. It's not a lie that our people walk almost only with sour faces.
I assume that Christianity in our region is turned not as "you should pray more, and then it will feel better", but as "the human race originally deserved suffering and must endure". People justify the shit in their lives by saying that it could have been worse, it used to be worse, it was worse in the USSR, it was worse in the Russian Empire, it was worse during the Tatar yoke, hah, so what is happening now can be tolerated.
Against the background of the war, our shitty president brings to those who believe him, not some hopes for success and minimal losses, but words like "the enemy side will just die, and we will die, but we will go to heaven." And people eat this shit
I remember some proverbs like "if you didn't live richly, there's nothing to start with", "there is no person without sadness, and if there is, then it is not a person", "it's sad to live, but it's sickening to die", "other laughter responds with crying", "laughing for no reason is a sign of foolishness". And the literature we are passing through is really a manual about how terrible everything can be

I have read that. Losing at least 25 million people in World War Two could only reinforce that. The "West" has no idea.

 

[Red Scare]

I was listening to a podcast earlier today and the guest made the observation that there is a cult of positivity in America and a hostility to philosophical pessimism that doesn't exist in other countries. I strongly suspect he is right. As an American who has never lived abroad, I'd appreciate any input on this subject.

Interesting, I was just thinking about that same thing this morning. I live in the USA too. There is a real cult of positivity, and it's part of the larger cult of capitalism. Fake it til you make it, is a popular saying.

But seriously, I hate seeing the toxic positivity crap on social media. People saying they are living their best lives (flaunting their privilege), who have no regard for anyone going through any real shit. They hide their own shit like it doesn't stink. They talk about "dumping toxic people", which is code for distancing themselves from anyone having a mental health crisis, or worse, poor people. It's sickening.

I don't doubt it happens in other countries, but those people may rightly be perceived as obnoxious.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

I was listening to a podcast earlier today and the guest made the observation that there is a cult of positivity in America and a hostility to philosophical pessimism that doesn't exist in other countries. I strongly suspect he is right. As an American who has never lived abroad, I'd appreciate any input on this subject.

I am an American who has lived abroad as well as in most subcultural areas of the US.

I would say the most depressive countries are the East Asian countries. I just did a quick check about the suicide rate by country and it is high there but higher in Eastern Europe.

When you walk around on the street of an East Asian country there are many unhappy looking people. In major US cities you get a good mix of bubbly looking people but also those who look miserable. And of course in US cities we are full of dopers and druggers. Sometimes In east asia they are just always miserable looking the men and the women both. Always overworked and exhausted.

In third world country the poverty is often extreme and people look miserable but it's in a different kind of way. You can tell it's what is physical is bothering them - missing and rotting teeth , drug and alcohol, etc. a different kind of suffering from rich countries. In these countries they are much more likely to be fascinated by a foreigner because less contact with modernity particularly in the rural areas. One time I went to a funeral in one of these countries and at the funeral I was asked to get married on the spot by another attendee - lots of desperation to escape these countries to the west. I had known this attendee for about an hour

I felt like in europe people were generally happier but not by much than my home country.

I have no real experience with moslem countries or Africa only short visits . I tried to avoid countries where 9/11 is more likely to play out at any moment

 

[Red Scare]

Something unique about the US is that it is the last of the great 20th century powers (Ottoman Empire, Imperialist Japan, Nazi Germany, British Empire, USSR, etc.) to have never been humbled into a radical reform. At least, not yet.

I don't think it makes sense to refer to the USSR as an empire, it was Socialist. They invariably made the lives of its citizens better. Compare pictures of Afghanistan in the 1960s to today. There were free universities, women wore what they wanted.

i also don't think it makes sense to say they were humbled into change. There was a lot of pressure being exerted in them y eastern nations, as well as constant harassment from the CIA, to adopt capitalism. This prompted them to begin selling off the national infrastructure, to corrupt parties who snatched it up. Previously nationally owned industry and utilities, etc. were privatized, and this created the oligarchs who ruined the country in short order.

I have heard something similar about the cult of suffering in Russia. It's not a lie that our people walk almost only with sour faces.
I assume that Christianity in our region is turned not as "you should pray more, and then it will feel better", but as "the human race originally deserved suffering and must endure". People justify the shit in their lives by saying that it could have been worse, it used to be worse, it was worse in the USSR, it was worse in the Russian Empire, it was worse during the Tatar yoke, hah, so what is happening now can be tolerated.
Against the background of the war, our shitty president brings to those who believe him, not some hopes for success and minimal losses, but words like "the enemy side will just die, and we will die, but we will go to heaven." And people eat this shit
I remember some proverbs like "if you didn't live richly, there's nothing to start with", "there is no person without sadness, and if there is, then it is not a person", "it's sad to live, but it's sickening to die", "other laughter responds with crying", "laughing for no reason is a sign of foolishness". And the literature we are passing through is really a manual about how terrible everything can be

During the Soviet era, religion was all but squashed out. This type of thinking was not a prominent feature of the population. There was a lot more confidence and pride in national leaders.

According to a recent pew research poll: 75% of Russians Say Soviet Era Was 'Greatest Time' in Country's History. When asked to name the things they associate with the Soviet era, respondents pointed to "future stability and confidence" and said they associated it with "a good life in the country."

Russian respondents said "the state took care of ordinary people" when asked to name the defining characteristics of Soviet rule. Russian respondents described late 1970s-early 1980s Soviet rule as "close to people" when offered a list of choices. When asked to characterize Russia's current leadership, half called it "criminal and corrupt" and "distant from the people and alien."

The absence of ethnic conflicts as well as economic growth and lack of unemployment were the second and third-most common responses. Constantly improving living conditions and advancements in science and culture placed fourth and fifth in Russians' ranking of Soviet life.

Russians tend to view the Soviet era in a mostly positive light, and their personal memories of that time are of social stability, confidence in the future and a good life. The Soviet era is seen as a time of high living standards, and as a time of justice. Today's capitalism is viewed as unfair: the injustice is in distribution, access to goods and infrastructure. And this feeling is growing stronger.

More than 6-in-10 Russians consider it a "great misfortune that the Soviet Union no longer exists." Just 22% in Russia say ordinary people have benefited from the changes since 1991, while a majority say life is worse than it was under communism. Russians are convinced that the economic situation was better under communism. And in Bulgaria, and Ukraine, more than half believe the economic situation is worse today than it was under communism.

Majorities in all the former Soviet orbit countries surveyed say politicians and business people have benefited the most since the fall of communism. And in all cases, more people say political and business leaders have prospered than say changes have benefited ordinary people.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

I don't think it makes sense to refer to the USSR as an empire, it was Socialist. They invariably made the lives of its citizens better. Compare pictures of Afghanistan in the 1960s to today. There were free universities, women wore what they wanted.

i also don't think it makes sense to say they were humbled into change. There was a lot of pressure being exerted in them y eastern nations, as well as constant harassment from the CIA, to adopt capitalism. This prompted them to begin selling off the national infrastructure, to corrupt parties who snatched it up. Previously nationally owned industry and utilities, etc. were privatized, and this created the oligarchs who ruined the country in short order.

During the Soviet era, religion was all but squashed out. This type of thinking was not a prominent feature of the population. There was a lot more confidence and pride in national leaders.

According to a recent pew research poll: 75% of Russians Say Soviet Era Was 'Greatest Time' in Country's History. When asked to name the things they associate with the Soviet era, respondents pointed to "future stability and confidence" and said they associated it with "a good life in the country."

Russian respondents said "the state took care of ordinary people" when asked to name the defining characteristics of Soviet rule. Russian respondents described late 1970s-early 1980s Soviet rule as "close to people" when offered a list of choices. When asked to characterize Russia's current leadership, half called it "criminal and corrupt" and "distant from the people and alien."

The absence of ethnic conflicts as well as economic growth and lack of unemployment were the second and third-most common responses. Constantly improving living conditions and advancements in science and culture placed fourth and fifth in Russians' ranking of Soviet life.

Russians tend to view the Soviet era in a mostly positive light, and their personal memories of that time are of social stability, confidence in the future and a good life. The Soviet era is seen as a time of high living standards, and as a time of justice. Today's capitalism is viewed as unfair: the injustice is in distribution, access to goods and infrastructure. And this feeling is growing stronger.

More than 6-in-10 Russians consider it a "great misfortune that the Soviet Union no longer exists." Just 22% in Russia say ordinary people have benefited from the changes since 1991, while a majority say life is worse than it was under communism. Russians are convinced that the economic situation was better under communism. And in Bulgaria, and Ukraine, more than half believe the economic situation is worse today than it was under communism.

Majorities in all the former Soviet orbit countries surveyed say politicians and business people have benefited the most since the fall of communism. And in all cases, more people say political and business leaders have prospered than say changes have benefited ordinary people.

If you don't think the USSR was an empire then why did vast swathes of it explicitly decide to leave the union and not become federated with Russia? Why is the major component of the former USSR now invading another former component to try to bring it back into the fold? Why has the same country repeatedly intervened in other former dominions like Georgia and kazakhstan ?

It is true many Russians are nostalgic for it but it doesn't change the fact the Soviet Union was a terrible place to live compared to many contemporary locales of the time. In the west we don't have the concept of a refusenik - if you are having to literally stop the entire population from leaving that means you have a problem with your economic system. You have to do something very serious to be prevented from leaving a western nation - major financial fraud and child abuse come to mind. I believe Australia denies passports to pedophiles

 

[Red Scare]

If you don't think the USSR was an empire then why did vast swathes of it explicitly decide to leave the union and not become federated with Russia?

I think you just answered your own question there.

Why is the major component of the former USSR now invading another former component to try to bring it back into the fold? Why has the same country repeatedly intervened in other former dominions like Georgia and kazakhstan ?

You do know the ussr hasn't existed since the 90s? The country invading those other countries is not the ussr. And they certainly don't want to bring back socialism, which would eliminate private property and the stranglehold they have over the economy there.

the Soviet Union was a terrible place to live compared to many contemporary locales of the time.

False. This is not historically accurate.

This report by the CIA (their mortal enemy) even states that soviets ate better than Americans did at the time.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

I think you just answered your own question there.

You do know the ussr hasn't existed since the 90s? The country invading those other countries is not the ussr. And they certainly don't want to bring back socialism, which would eliminate private property and the stranglehold they have over the economy there.

False. This is not historically accurate.

This report by the CIA (their mortal enemy) even states that soviets ate better than Americans did at the time.

If the Soviet Union was such a wonderful place to live , then why did refuseniks exist ? There is no such concept in any western country.

Why was there such a thing as a Berlin Wall, which was designed to keep people in?

 

[Red Scare]

If the Soviet Union was such a wonderful place to live , then why did refuseniks exist ? There is no such concept in any western country.

Why was there such a thing as a Berlin Wall, which was designed to keep people in?

If the USA is such a great place to I've why do so many expats say it sucks?

Every country has people that don't want to live there. Do you know what happens to Americans that are caught trying to leave without a passport or anything? They are punished. Illegal immigration carries serious penalties in nearly every nation on earth.

Capitalism is responsible for nearly 100 million deaths every 10 years, just through starvation and lack of equitable healthcare alone. Do you put as much effort into disparaging capitalist nations as you do into socialist ones? No? You're a hypocrite.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

If the USA is such a great place to I've why do so many expats say it sucks?

Every country has people that don't want to live there. Do you know what happens to Americans that are caught trying to leave without a passport or anything? They are punished. Illegal immigration carries serious penalties in nearly every nation on earth.

Capitalism is responsible for nearly 100 million deaths every 10 years, just through starvation and lack of equitable healthcare alone. Do you put as much effort into disparaging capitalist nations as you do into socialist ones? No? You're a hypocrite.

I describe US as a 70th percentile country. It isn't great but it is better than most . The facts show this because the US has amazing levels of inbound migration. People genuinely want to live there. When contrasted to its main communist geopolitical rival it is the opposite - China has had consistent outbound net migration for decades .

Not having a passport isn't the same thing as a refusenik. A passport costs like 100 bucks and is obtainable to anyone without a criminal record usually relating to certain tax crimes. The US never says to anyone "you can't leave because your occupation is too important". It just doesn't happen.

I don't really care to criticize capitalist nations because just about all of them are capitalist now.

 

[Red Scare]

I describe US as a 70th percentile country. It isn't great but it is better than most . The facts show this because the US has amazing levels of inbound migration. People genuinely want to live there. When contrasted to its main communist geopolitical revival it is the opposite - China has had consistent outbound net migration for decades .

China doesn't really accept inbound emigres, and of course many people want to live here. They think they will become the next person to get rich and live the American dream. It's a lie. How can you justify a country that people die because they can't afford insulin? Quite sickening to see.

Not having a passport isn't the same thing as a refusenik. A passport costs like 100 bucks and is obtainable to anyone without a criminal record usually relating to certain tax crimes. The US never says to anyone "you can't leave because your occupation is too important". It just doesn't happen.

Yes it does. If you an active member of the military and just want to up and leave one day, you're not going to have a good time. Why do you think people in a similar position would have just been allowed to waltz out of there and go to a hostile western nations during a Cold War??

Also having a passport does not guarantee you will be allowed to leave.

I don't really care to criticize capitalist nations because just about all of them are capitalist now.

So why not criticize the system as a whole that causes over 100 million deaths every ten years? Many many many more times the death count attributed to the Soviets Union, even by very biased accounts.

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

This attitude certainly exists in other places, like the UK, hence the expectation of having a stiff upper lip and the disdain for those who "have a moan too much."

It's even more pronounced when you see a news article about someone having undergone some sort of misfortune, and 75% of the commenters immediately jump to blaming the person for their bad circumstances- they didn't work hard enough, they're a benefits scrounger, they're a whiner, they should've just done xyz- or making comments about how the person suffering is weak, needs to toughen up, and quit complaining.

I have learned to keep my mouth shut because people in this country will turn any issue into a suffering Olympics and always claim someone else has it worse. You can't complain, because so and sos aunt has this disease, and she's still employed. You're getting subpar healthcare? How dare you criticise our beloved NHS? You're wasting resources. Be grateful you aren't living in a hut in the Congo.

Hands down though, suburbian laptop class Americans (and Canadians, for that matter) are the worst for touting the tough love, toxic positivity rhetoric. They love to act like everyone was born with the silver spoon in their mouths like they were, and are woefully out of touch with what happens in rural American communities or the concrete jungles rife with disparaged homeless populations.

They pretend rampant inflation isn't ravaging their country and insinuate that anyone who is dealt a poor hand in life must either be an "uneducated, hick Conservative" or a "entitled, lazy millennial brat" depending on what flavor of partisan politics they dabble in. It's completely black and white nonsense, and implies that unhappiness can simply be waved away with the flick of a magic wand, if only you'd been as blessed and hardworking as they are.

Sometimes it feels like they are an alien species, because the behavior is like something out of the goddamned twilight zone. And I am saying this as someone who was born in North America, it truly feels like a very plastic and artifical culture full of constant grandstanding, consumerism, pissing contests, and fakeness.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

China doesn't really accept inbound emigres, and of course many people want to live here. They think they will become the next person to get rich and live the American dream. It's a lie. How can you justify a country that people die because they can't afford insulin? Quite sickening to see.

Yes it does. If you an active member of the military and just want to up and leave one day, you're not going to have a good time. Why do you think people in a similar position would have just been allowed to waltz out of there and go to a hostile western nations during a Cold War??

Also having a passport does not guarantee you will be allowed to leave.

So why not criticize the system as a whole that causes over 100 million deaths every ten years? Many many many more times the death count attributed to the Soviets Union, even by very biased accounts.

If you have a U.S. passport you are leaving the country 99.999999 percent of the time. The statistics on this are so obvious no one would even bother to take a count.

You also have little understanding of procedures surrounding active duty US military. It's impossibly easy for active duty military to desert. Their chances of leaving the country if they want to are even higher Because our feds mass surveillance software trusts them more. If you are a U.S. citizen you would know that the military basically go straight through TSA and are even given priority boarding. If a U.S. soldier wanted to skip out on the country he's more likely to get away with it than anyone else unless he's committed some major crime. It would be as simple as leaving the country when the time comes up for R&R. The world is littered with washed up US vets that fit this exact profile

Somehow the US for all its technologically dystopian elements manages to be less authoritarian than 1980s era communist immigration procedures and you try to claim otherwise. The thinking from far left individuals is often mind boggling

 

[Red Scare]

If you have a U.S. passport you are leaving the country 99.999999 percent of the time. The statistics on this are so obvious no one would even bother to take a count.

Are you sure about that? Without a visa, it's going to be pretty hard to stay where you are going. And with a criminal record, you might not be able to travel at all. Even if you are just suspected of a crime.

You also have little understanding of procedures surrounding active duty US military. It's impossibly easy for active duty military to desert. Their chances of leaving the country if they want to are even higher Because our feds mass surveillance software trusts them more. If you are a U.S. citizen you would know that the military basically go straight through TSA and are even given priority boarding. If a U.S. soldier wanted to skip out on the country he's more likely to get away with it than anyone else unless he's committed some major crime. The world is littered with washed up US vets.

Being easy to desert, doesn't make it legal.

Somehow the US for all its technologically dystopian elements manages to be less authoritarian than 1980s era communist immigration procedures and you try to claim otherwise. The thinking from far left individuals is often mind boggling

What a load of horse shit. We have the largest prison population in the world, that includes China btw, sport.

Still defending a country and system that allows people to die in the street, homeless, and unable to afford medical bills, and that kills 100 million people every 10 years? You got some questionable morals.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

Are you sure about that? Without a visa, it's going to be pretty hard to stay where you are going. And with a criminal record, you might not be able to travel at all. Even if you are just suspected of a crime.

Being easy to desert, doesn't make it legal.

What a load of horse shit. We have the largest prison population in the world, that includes China btw, sport.

Still defending a country and system that allows people to die in the street, homeless, and unable to afford medical bills, and that kills 100 million people every 10 years? You got some questionable morals.

you sound like someone who has never travelled internationally. I suspect that is likely why you have communist sympathies or at least plays into it a little bit - I have visited a few communist countries and I've seen the difference in lifestyles and living standards. I'll take USA to Cambodia or China any day .

Most of the time US citizens don't even need a visa when they travel. We get visa free access in most of the countries that are pleasant to visit because the world wants our money. Long term visas are also incredibly easy to get for Americans and it's quite easy to acquire foreign citizenship as well. Nothing that america does immigration wise is anywhere comparable to a Soviet or Chinese system. In fact we have the opposite problem in that a huge part of our body politic wants to keep people out. The country is so desirable to enter we run a Berlin wall in reverse , but that doesn't even work because people just fly in and overstay

Homelessness and suffering are a reality in any nation. You see it in communist countries too and in all the communist countries I visited save for China the homelessness was even worse than in the US . I don't know where you get 100 million every ten years . I'll give you the Iraqi genocide but 100 million every ten years seems a stretch.

 

[Red Scare]

you sound like someone who has never travelled internationally.

I have travelled internationally, I fail to see the significance of this comment except you are trying to make a weird flex.

I suspect that is likely why you have communist sympathies or at least plays into it a little bit

WTF does that have to do with it? Actually the global poverty level and the fact that 8 mil people die of hunger each year, the lack of affordable healthcare, etc are why I have "communist sympathies" lmao.

I have visited a few communist countries and I've seen the difference in lifestyles and living standards. I'll take USA to Cambodia or China any day .

China is not socialist. They have billionaires, and private property. Certainly not a classless and egalitarian society, which is what communism is. Do you believe they are a democratic republic, because it's in the name?

Most of the time US citizens don't even need a visa when they travel. We get visa free access in most of the countries that are pleasant to visit because the world wants our money. Long term visas are also incredibly easy to get for Americans and it's quite easy to acquire foreign citizenship as well.

Sorry but this simply isn't true. As many Americans hoping to flee to Canada to avoid Donald Trump eventually learned.

In fact we have the opposite problem in that a huge part of our body politic wants to keep people out.

Yeah, keeping kids in cages at concentration camps. Not an inhuman thing to do at all.

The country is so desirable to enter

Desirable to enter, or just slightly more desirable than the country they came from, that was messed up specifically as a result of our interventions there? All the immigrants coming from south america and Central America are only fleeing messes we made there, to come to country the perceive as less of a mess... Until they get their first hospital bill here.

Homelessness and suffering are a reality in any nation. You see it in communist countries too and in all the communist countries I visited save for China the homelessness was even worse than in the US .

You just making it easier to point out China is not a socialist nation.

In the ussr, there was no homelessness. Housing was a right, publicly provided to all. So was healthcare, and college, and a job. Utilities were free to all. I already provided you proof that they ate better.

It's a lot different when you are homeless just because you can't afford a house, or hospital bills.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

This attitude certainly exists in other places, like the UK, hence the expectation of having a stiff upper lip and the disdain for those who "have a moan too much."

It's even more pronounced when you see a news article about someone having undergone some sort of misfortune, and 75% of the commenters immediately jump to blaming the person for their bad circumstances- they didn't work hard enough, they're a benefits scrounger, they're a whiner, they should've just done xyz- or making comments about how the person suffering is weak, needs to toughen up, and quit complaining.

I have learned to keep my mouth shut because people in this country will turn any issue into a suffering Olympics and always claim someone else has it worse. You can't complain, because so and sos aunt has this disease, and she's still employed. You're getting subpar healthcare? How dare you criticise our beloved NHS? You're wasting resources. Be grateful you aren't living in a hut in the Congo.

Hands down though, suburbian laptop class Americans (and Canadians, for that matter) are the worst for touting the tough love, toxic positivity rhetoric. They love to act like everyone was born with the silver spoon in their mouths like they were, and are woefully out of touch with what happens in rural American communities or the concrete jungles rife with disparaged homeless populations.

They pretend rampant inflation isn't ravaging their country and insinuate that anyone who is dealt a poor hand in life must either be an "uneducated, hick Conservative" or a "entitled, lazy millennial brat" depending on what flavor of partisan politics they dabble in. It's completely black and white nonsense, and implies that unhappiness can simply be waved away with the flick of a magic wand, if only you'd been as blessed and hardworking as they are.

Sometimes it feels like they are an alien species, because the behavior is like something out of the goddamned twilight zone. And I am saying this as someone who was born in North America, it truly feels like a very plastic and artifical culture full of constant grandstanding, consumerism, pissing contests, and fakeness.

Great post and I think pretty accurate about US.

It isn't the worst place to live in the world but the fakeness and lack of culture beyond materialism does make it depressing at times. But this problem I think has more to do with modernity and it isn't US specific. I like the use of the terminology laptop waving.

What you are describing sounds like any of the suburban bubbles located near the financial centres. The kinds that have the techno narcissist companies like google that spy on us all for cia
I

I have travelled internationally, i fail to see the significance of this comment except you are trying to make a weird flex.

WTF does that have to do with it? Actually the global poverty level and the fact that 8 mil people die of hunger each year, the lack of affordable healthcare, etc are why I have "communist sympathies" lmao.

China is not socialist. They have billionaires, and private property. Certainly not a classless and egalitarian society, which is what communism is. Do you believe they are a democratic republic, because it's in the name?

Sorry but this simply isn't true. As many Americans hoping to flee to Canada to avoid Donald Trump eventually learned.

Yeah, keeping kids in cages at concentration camps.

Desirable to enter, or just slightly more desirable than the country they came from, that was messed up specifically as a result of our interventions there? All the immigrants coming from south america and Central America are only fleeing messes we made there, to come to country the perceive as less of a mess... Until they get their first hospital bill here.

You just making it easier to point out China is not a socialist nation.

In the ussr, there was no homelessness. Housing was a right, publicly provided to all. So was healthcare, and college, and a job. Utilities were free to all. I already provided you proof that they ate better.

It's a lot different when you are homeless just because you can't afford a house, or hospital bills.

Im going to keep this post short:


If everything was free in the Soviet Union then why did it end in empty shoreshelves ? That is all I have to say.

My apologies for accusing you of not having international experience but I would think most Americans would know we go just about anywhere worth visiting visa free.

 

[Red Scare]

If everything was free in the Soviet Union then why did it end in empty shoreshelves ? That is all I have to say.

Did you miss the part where I posted a report by the CIA saying they ate better than Americans at the time? That they didn't have to pay for housing, or utilities, or healthcare, or college?

And have you been to a wal mart lately, or any other store? Not paying attention to the news about supply shortages everywhere? You know what didn't happen in the ussr? Inflation outpacing the people's ability to pay for anything. Everything produced was done so for no more than it costs to produce the initial goods, with no mark up, no profit motive. A gallon of gas certainly didn't cost over $5.00, but yay capitalism.

I would think most Americans would know we go just about anywhere worth visiting visa free.

For 90 days. And then they have to get out, or get a visa (which is not always easy).

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

Did you miss the part where I posted a report by the CIA saying they ate better than Americans at the time? That they didn't have to pay for housing, or utilities, or healthcare, or college?

And have you been to a wal mart lately, or any other store? Not paying attention on the news about supply shortages? You know what didn't happen in the ussr? Inflation outpacing the people's ability to pay for anything. Everything was produced was done so for no more than it costs to produce the initial goods, with no mark up, no profit motive. A gallon of gas certainly didn't cost over $5.00, but yay capitalism.

For 90 days. And then they have to get out, or get a visa (which is not always easy).

Soviets probably ate better because they aren't fatasses like Americans. The problem with the US is we eat so good we can't put it down .Americans still managed better life expectancy during the soviet period.

About visas: this is nothing comparable to refuseniks. The point I was making is it's really easy to leave the US . What you choose to do after you leave is up to you and up to your hosting country. In the Soviet system it was difficult to leave at all. Even if you exit the US illegally both borders are really wide open especially the Canadian one.

 

[Red Scare]

Soviets probably ate better because they aren't fatasses like Americans.

They ate about the same amount of food, according to that report.

The problem with the US is we eat so good we can't put it down .Americans still managed better life expectancy during the soviet period.

I don't think that is technically true. Life expectancy has been down lately, and this is completely correlated to people's abilities to pay their hospital bills. Most wont even go to a doctor until it's too late.

The point I was making is it's really easy to leave the US .

Yeah, if you're rich. If you are a criminal, targeted for living in a poor community, you can't even get a passport.

What you choose to do after you leave is up to you and up to your hosting country.

After 90 days you have to get a visa, or get out. Getting a visa is not always easy. Then you get shipped back to the USA, and punished. So really it's not that easy to leave this country for good.

In the Soviet system it was difficult to leave at all.

Do you know of any country that it's easy to leave and go to a hostile nation during war time? Do you think Americans could just leave and go to communist countries during the Cold War? We still can't even get to Cuba without some finagling.

 

[Sunset Limited]

In the ussr, there was no homelessness. Housing was a right, publicly provided to all. So was healthcare, and college, and a job. Utilities were free to all. I already provided you proof that they ate better.

This is true. There is a place where I buy bread. Sometimes we chat with an old man who works there. He came from Russia. I asked how Russia was in Soviet times. He got excited and told me, "I wouldn't have come if the Soviet Union hadn't been dissolved."

In my country, health care is free for everyone. If health services are not free for everyone in a country, there are moral problems.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

This is true. There is a place where I buy bread. Sometimes we chat with an old man who works there. He came from Russia. I asked how Russia was in Soviet times. He got excited and told me, "I wouldn't have come if the Soviet Union hadn't been dissolved."

In my country, health care is free for everyone. If health services are not free for everyone in a country, there are moral problems.

Nothing in life is free. Nothing. The high quality "free" healthcare Europeans and many other public health countries enjoy is paid for by looted Iraqi oil. Iraqis and others paid for it in literal blood. Without that oil you're at ground zero. No IV drops no hospital beds no colonoscopies. Nothing .



Sorry to let reality intrude