Venting Pros and cons of life and death.

[hibikikyuxx]

Pros of Life:
+Depends on your circumstances. Either you're born with good parents or bad parents, in a good environment or a bad environment, it's all random. If you're born into a abusive family then you're automatically fucked. By the time you can decide things for yourself, your mental state is already destroyed into a thousand pieces. Then there's school. Even if you do good in school, it's pointless if you don't find a job, or if you get bullied in school so much that your mental state gets fucked up. Teachers always look away and pretend that they don't see a child getting bullied. Then everyone acts surprised when the bullied child becomes a deranged school shooter (which is just as wrong but could always be prevented if mental health care and school did a better job at caring about the children who get bullied). Society doesn't care if you suffer, they want to force you into slavery whether you want it or not.

Cons of Life:
-You're born against your will.
-Society is so sadistic and selfish that they don't allow people who suffer, to die, even though they see no problems with putting animals who suffer to sleep.
-You're forced to go to school and then work for 50 years until you're an old piece of flesh and then die of old age.
-No free will and no freedom.
-People with mental illnesses are looked down upon.
-Too much suffering.
-At the risk of abuse, rape, slavery, and murder.
-Discrimination.
-Racism.
-Homophobia.
-Religion.
-Power hungry and corrupt old people are the ones in power.
-Animals that aren't pets are treated as nothing more than food by society.
-Most of social media.
-Most people in society are shallow individuals who only care about themselves.
-The list goes on.

Pros of Death:
+No more suffering.
+Freedom.
+No worries.
+Endless possibilities.

Cons of Death:
-???

 

[SpiritualDeath]

Even if you do good in school, it's pointless if you don't find a job,

If you get a job, you just get to be a wage slave just to pay the bare minimum. you pay for a life that's imposed on you, and then you die.
Even if you're really rich and privileged now that doesn't guarantee that things won't go wrong for you in the future. It's easy af to make you suffer.
ha, what a life.

 

[R_N]

"Endless posibilities" could also mean another hell. Best case scenario after death would be non existence in any conscious shape or form.

 

[FuneralCry]

I certainly see it as always preferable to cease existing under all circumstances, I see no value in suffering in this hellish world, just waiting to die. Existence just causes unnecessary harm and torment, in fact it's responsible for all the suffering existing beings go through, and I see all suffering as undesirable and best avoided.

But in my case I don't see death as "endless possibilities", I believe we simply cease existing and that is it for us, we are gone. To me the only relief certainly lies in eternal non-existence, only nothingness is perfect to me, I find it so horrific and tragic how existence disturbed the peace of nothingness in the first place. The fact that one cannot suffer from not existing is exactly why it appeals to me.

 

[hibikikyuxx]

I certainly see it as always preferable to cease existing under all circumstances, I see no value in suffering in this hellish world, just waiting to die.

You see, I do want to ctb, but that doesn't mean that I automatically think of all existence as a bad thing. It can be good, nature is interesting. The problem is humanity and society in general. The universe is so large, there are trillions of planets, stars, and galaxies. It makes me wonder what life outside of our solar system, in the other galaxies, is like. Definitely better than life on this planet.

Existence just causes unnecessary harm and torment, in fact it's responsible for all the suffering existing beings go through, and I see all suffering as undesirable and best avoided.

Depends. Existence can be good...if we remove all bad traits of humanity/society on this planet. Like, I like music and nature, but the problem is the corrupt, sadistic, and evil humans who destroy the planet. Society has become such a brainwashed group that it has become normalized to go to school and work like a slave for 50 years until you're too old and then die of old age. There is no free will and it's frustrating. Life could be so much more, but it's not possible on this planet, unless the society does a 180 degree change.

But in my case I don't see death as "endless possibilities", I believe we simply cease existing and that is it for us, we are gone. To me the only relief certainly lies in eternal non-existence, only nothingness is perfect to me

Everyone has their own opinion so it's fine if you believe that but the fact that our conscious awareness continues after death in an environment we call the afterlife was proved by four of the top scientists of their time back in the early 1900s. Since that time, the evidence has increased exponentially through many different categories of afterlife research and investigation.

As for how this occurs, we have the answer from 100 years of research into quantum physics. Materialism has been demonstrated to be false. What the science has demonstrated is that our experience of an external reality is a mental phenomena, the foundation of which is consciousness. Our experiences of the physical world around us can be compared to the same kind of experience in a dream state, where our mind is producing an experience of an external, physical world from available information.

Since consciousness is fundamental, and the experience of an external physical world including our bodies is generated by consciousness, the death of that physical body cannot cause the death of one's conscious awareness. That would be like saying that if my body in a dream died, my consciousness would cease to exist.

The soul and be thought of as consciousness. This is also a debate, as conscious awareness is different from bodily energy. For example, a person in a coma is alive, but they are absent of conscious awareness of this reality.

Science cannot account for what happens to our consciousness when we die. Science has no idea how consciousness is formed or how it develops. There is absolutely no evidence that the brain creates consciousness, so where does it come from? Who created the part of YOU that identifies as YOU?

Is it 'I think, therefore I am'....or is it 'I am, there I think?'

It is reasonable to assume, given the data we have so far, that it is the consciousness we refer to when speaking of 'souls' not the energy that powers our bodies.

There are many verified cases of brain-dead people later regaining brain function and consciousness, complete with memories or 'hallucinations' that took place during the time their brain was 'dead'.

A great example is the case of Dr Eben Alexander. His brain was turned to mush but he still had vivid NDE memories during that time. What makes his accounts even more fascinating is that he is a neurosurgeon. He no longer subscribes to the idea that consciousness is created by the brain, but rather, consciousness is received by the brain. Like a radio receives satellite signals.

I find it so horrific and tragic how existence disturbed the peace of nothingness in the first place. The fact that one cannot suffer from not existing is exactly why it appeals to me.

Existence didn't disturb the peace of nothingness, nothingness is literally nothingness, it doesn't exist, you cannot disturb it.

If you get a job, you just get to be a wage slave just to pay the bare minimum. you pay for a life that's imposed on you, and then you die.
Even if you're really rich and privileged now that doesn't guarantee that things won't go wrong for you in the future. It's easy af to make you suffer.
ha, what a life.

Exactly.

"Endless posibilities" could also mean another hell.

I doubt it can be any worse than life on this planet.

Best case scenario after death would be non existence in any conscious shape or form.

That would be a contradiction in itself, as "non existence" does not exist. We came from "nothing" and became "something" (and that's assuming that we were nothing, we actually don't know), so it will happen again. Best case scenario after death would either be eternal sleep (which is impossible) or being reincarnated to a place that's actually worth living for. If earth wasn't such a terrible place, where society is so brainwashed that they work as slaves for many decades, and always hurt and manipulate others, then I wouldn't be here right now. It's hard to imagine a world without pain and suffering, but if it does exist, wherever it is, I wouldn't mind that. Given that energy cannot be destroyed and consciousness is some sort of universal property, it only makes me want to ctb more, as I want to find out what will happen and where I will end up.

 

[R_N]

You see, I do want to ctb, but that doesn't mean that I automatically think of all existence as a bad thing. It can be good, nature is interesting. The problem is humanity and society in general. The universe is so large, there are trillions of planets, stars, and galaxies. It makes me wonder what life outside of our solar system, in the other galaxies, is like. Definitely better than life on this planet.

Depends. Existence can be good...if we remove all bad traits of humanity/society on this planet. Like, I like music and nature, but the problem is the corrupt, sadistic, and evil humans who destroy the planet. Society has become such a brainwashed group that it has become normalized to go to school and work like a slave for 50 years until you're too old and then die of old age. There is no free will and it's frustrating. Life could be so much more, but it's not possible on this planet, unless the society does a 180 degree change.

Everyone has their own opinion so it's fine if you believe that but the fact that our conscious awareness continues after death in an environment we call the afterlife was proved by four of the top scientists of their time back in the early 1900s. Since that time, the evidence has increased exponentially through many different categories of afterlife research and investigation.

As for how this occurs, we have the answer from 100 years of research into quantum physics. Materialism has been demonstrated to be false. What the science has demonstrated is that our experience of an external reality is a mental phenomena, the foundation of which is consciousness. Our experiences of the physical world around us can be compared to the same kind of experience in a dream state, where our mind is producing an experience of an external, physical world from available information.

Since consciousness is fundamental, and the experience of an external physical world including our bodies is generated by consciousness, the death of that physical body cannot cause the death of one's conscious awareness. That would be like saying that if my body in a dream died, my consciousness would cease to exist.

The soul and be thought of as consciousness. This is also a debate, as conscious awareness is different from bodily energy. For example, a person in a coma is alive, but they are absent of conscious awareness of this reality.

Science cannot account for what happens to our consciousness when we die. Science has no idea how consciousness is formed or how it develops. There is absolutely no evidence that the brain creates consciousness, so where does it come from? Who created the part of YOU that identifies as YOU?

Is it 'I think, therefore I am'....or is it 'I am, there I think?'

It is reasonable to assume, given the data we have so far, that it is the consciousness we refer to when speaking of 'souls' not the energy that powers our bodies.

There are many verified cases of brain-dead people later regaining brain function and consciousness, complete with memories or 'hallucinations' that took place during the time their brain was 'dead'.

A great example is the case of Dr Eben Alexander. His brain was turned to mush but he still had vivid NDE memories during that time. What makes his accounts even more fascinating is that he is a neurosurgeon. He no longer subscribes to the idea that consciousness is created by the brain, but rather, consciousness is received by the brain. Like a radio receives satellite signals.

Existence didn't disturb the peace of nothingness, nothingness is literally nothingness, it doesn't exist, you cannot disturb it.

Exactly.

I doubt it can be any worse than life on this planet.

That would be a contradiction in itself, as "non existence" does not exist. We came from "nothing" and became "something" (and that's assuming that we were nothing, we actually don't know), so it will happen again. Best case scenario after death would either be eternal sleep (which is impossible) or being reincarnated to a place that's actually worth living for. If earth wasn't such a terrible place, where society is so brainwashed that they work as slaves for many decades, and always hurt and manipulate others, then I wouldn't be here right now. It's hard to imagine a world without pain and suffering, but if it does exist, wherever it is, I wouldn't mind that. Given that energy cannot be destroyed and consciousness is some sort of universal property, it only makes me want to ctb more, as I want to find out what will happen and where I will end up.

When brain shuts down you don't exist imo. Unless you count your lifeless unconscious body as something. Your sense of self and identity, everything you learned dies with the brain and can't be expressed anymore.

Also, I don't believe in reincarnation just like I don't believe in religion.

 

[hibikikyuxx]

When brain shuts down you don't exist imo.

Except that many people who were clinically dead and had no brain activity going on, were able to tell what's going on around them. Hell, many people have memories from before their birth. You're not your brain. Consciousness is there from the get-go. What your brain gives you, if anything, is your "ego", which is developed in the first three years of your life, but your consciousness? It's there from the get-go. Babies are born conscious, we know that, otherwise they wouldn't be able to smile, laugh, and cry.

Unless you count your lifeless unconscious body as something.

Do you think consciousness comes from your body? Then how do you explain the people who experienced consciousness before they were born?

Your sense of self and identity, everything you learned dies with the brain and can't be expressed anymore.

You're confusing ego with consciousness. "Sense of self and identity" is your ego, not your consciousness. A baby doesn't have a ego, but it is conscious. Because a baby can smile, laugh, and cry, we know that it is conscious. Everyone's ego develops during the first three years of their life. Once a person likes something and dislikes something, they have a ego. But everyone is born conscious, and many have experienced consciousness before their birth. While consciousnes is a universal property, it is likely that the ego comes from the brain, yes, but even that, we don't know. If consciousness comes from the brain then people who were clinically dead and had no brain activity going on, wouldn't be able to tell what's going on around them, but they are. Things like out of body experiences and NDEs, prove that we don't require a body.

Also, I don't believe in reincarnation just like I don't believe in religion.

While I myself don't believe in religion, there are many people who remember past lives and near death experiences have been a thing since over 500 years and humanity was far less advanced back then than they are now. You can believe in consciousness without having to believe in religion, as consciousness is always there, like time, space, and matter, while religion was created by humans.

 

[R_N]

Except that many people who were clinically dead and had no brain activity going on, were able to tell what's going on around them. Hell, many people have memories from before their birth. You're not your brain. Consciousness is there from the get-go. What your brain gives you, if anything, is your "ego", which is developed in the first three years of your life, but your consciousness? It's there from the get-go. Babies are born conscious, we know that, otherwise they wouldn't be able to smile, laugh, and cry.

Do you think consciousness comes from your body? Then how do you explain the people who experienced consciousness before they were born?

You're confusing ego with consciousness. "Sense of self and identity" is your ego, not your consciousness. A baby doesn't have a ego, but it is conscious. Because a baby can smile, laugh, and cry, we know that it is conscious. Everyone's ego develops during the first three years of their life. Once a person likes something and dislikes something, they have a ego. But everyone is born conscious, and many have experienced consciousness before their birth. While consciousnes is a universal property, it is likely that the ego comes from the brain, yes, but even that, we don't know. If consciousness comes from the brain then people who were clinically dead and had no brain activity going on, wouldn't be able to tell what's going on around them, but they are. Things like out of body experiences and NDEs, prove that we don't require a body.

While I myself don't believe in religion, there are many people who remember past lives and near death experiences have been a thing since over 500 years and humanity was far less advanced back then than they are now. You can believe in consciousness without having to believe in religion, as consciousness is always there, like time, space, and matter, while religion was created by humans.

So your proof is just anecdotal experiences of other people? I should believe everything ever said then just the same. Still same as religion, sorry.

And I am not confusing anything. Ego and consciousness is all brain to me.

Everything is in your head and eventually it shuts down. I am not a spiritual person and that is how I see it. It is fine to disagree.

 

[hibikikyuxx]

So your proof is just anecdotal experiences of other people?

My proof are people who were clinically dead and had no brain activity going on, yet were able to tell what's going around them while they experienced an out of body experience. You calling them anecdotal experiences makes no sense. Do you honestly believe that every single of those experiences were just coincidence? Why are you disregarding and disrespecting all the work of the doctors who did their best to bring those people back to life?

I should believe everything ever said then just the same.

You don't remember your birth, do you? Yet you are here. Does that now mean that you were never born and magically appeared out of nowhere, just because you don't remember your birth?

Still same as religion, sorry

Also completely different. Religion was created by humans to control other humans. How is a clinically dead person with no brain activity going on, and yet being able to tell what's going on around them, the same as religion? That's legit proof. Religion on the other hand are just fairy tale stories about a magic man living in the sky or whatever, so that's obviously absurd.

And I am not confusing anything. Ego and consciousness is all brain to me

That's still confusing things. There is clearly a difference between ego and consciousness, as consciousness doesn't come from the brain, while the ego is developed during the first three of your life. Everyone is born conscious, many people remember being conscious before their birth, but everyone's ego gets developed during the first three years of their life. If consciousness comes from the brain then it would have been located by now, and yet, none of the scientists can locate where consciousness comes from, even though we know how each part of the brain works. Trying to search for consciousness is like trying to search for time and matter. If consciousness comes from the brain, then the people who were clincally dead and had no brain activity going on, wouldn't have been able to experience anything, but they were.

Everything is in your head and eventually it shuts down.

That's your opinion. I had no head before I was born, yet I was conscious.

I am not a spiritual person and that is how I see it. It is fine to disagree.

I'm not a spiritual person either, you don't have to be a spiritual person to be able to tell that something like consciousness is a fundamental property of the universe, like time and matter is,

 

[R_N]

I disagree on mostly everything you say and I am with neuroscientists who consider consciousness a part of the brain. We probably disagree a lot on many things when it comes to human body so it is best not to open that can of worms judging by what I read from you on other threads.

And me not remembering my birth doesn't mean I was somewhere beforehand and that it follows the same logic if that is what you were aiming for.

I am not disrespecting people just because I don't agree with them btw, same way you aren't disrespecting scientists you disagree with.


And with that I leave you because I feel we are both wasting our time on this. We aren't going anywhere and we will forever disagree. We see things differently and that is fine. I will read your reply and aknowledge it tho but I am letting you have the last word on this.

 

[haibane]

I personally dont see any pros to life as it is only suffering imo. I really believe that death is always the better option as it is the closest to what i am looking for, peace

 

[hibikikyuxx]

I disagree on mostly everything you say

Okay, let's agree to disagree.

and I am with neuroscientists who consider consciousness a part of the brain

Neuroscientists themselves don't even understand consciousness, nor where it comes from. If it was part of the brain, it would have been located by now, but consciousness can nowhere be found in the brain even though we know how each part of the brain works.

You know what I find strange though? The structure of the cosmic web and galaxies are practically the same as the structure of brain cells. Weird.

We probably disagree a lot on many things when it comes to human body so it is best not to open that can of worms judging by what I read from you on other threads.

Fine.

And me not remembering my birth doesn't mean I was somewhere beforehand and that it follows the same logic if that is what you were aiming for

What I meant is that you having no memories of something doesn't mean that it never happend. We don't remember our birth, but we know that we were born.

I am not disrespecting people just because I don't agree with them btw, same way you aren't disrespecting scientists you disagree with.

But how can you disagree with doctors who saw that a person was clinically dead and had no brain activity? Like, at least they have proof, unlike scientists who can't explain consciousness nor locate where it comes from.

I feel we are both wasting our time on this. We aren't going anywhere and we will forever disagree. We see things differently and that is fine. I will read your reply and aknowledge it tho but I am letting you have the last word on this.

You're right, let's leave it at that. We're here to ctb, not to talk about pointless stuff that will always be a mystery.